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hoorta

So whats wrong with Baker?

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The article is too big to cut and paste here, but like that line in the Alice's Restaurant song you'll get the circles, arrows and videos from multiple angles with commentary on how badly Baker screwed up on numerous plays. If this guy saw it, you can bet the ranch the coaches saw it, and I have to wonder how other guys on the offense are reacting to it... Everything he was doing right last year, looks like he's doing wrong. I don't have the explanation why...

Warning to Jiggins: This link may make you ill.  :)  

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/OBR-Film-Room-Baker-Mayfield-one-read-QB-Fact-or-Fiction-136729182/?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=191011_115012_Cleveland Browns&utm_content=Image&liveconnect=CA-1F-A7-07-02-43-35-CA-71-7D-7D-AF-89-03-3E-6C191011_115012ClevelandBrowns

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I think this is all true, but it's also all correctable. Perhaps it is due to coaching as well. Freddie took all the credit, but the OLD OL coach may have been right, as another post pointed out. 

 

Baker may break out of this slump any game. Maybe this week? 

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33 minutes ago, Icecube said:

*****  Baker may break out of this slump any game. Maybe this week? *****

If it's going to happen at all this would be the week for Mayfield + the receiving corp + the maligned OL + the Chubb led running game + the "play callers" and everyone else to get their crap together.

The national media don't give the BROWNS a chance in hell to win this game, a classic underdog don't give a crap home trap.

It's now or never a 2-4 record and a week off to stew about it followed by a week 8 trip to Foxborough to meet the Superbowl favorite Patriots might end any playoff aspirations.

Can it be a bigger must win game?????  I don't think so.   :huh:

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I'm quite certain that most of his problem stems from a lack of faith in his offensive line to give him protection long enough to go through his progressions properly.

Now, you can quote PFF #'s regarding a clean pocket for him if you want to......but that doesn't matter....what matters is whether BAKER believes he'll get the time.  I mean, how much faith would YOU have in Robinson, Kush & Hubbard?

Last season he faced a lot of weaker defenses.  THIS year he's been facing pretty tough defenses.  And it LOOKS it.

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I'm starting to (re) develop issues with Bakers eyes sans play action.  This was a problem that showed up in some of his film while at Oklahoma and I remember mentioning it.   

It's a 50/50 in my mind.  I think the pre-snap, having his eyes in the right place, can be severely improved and likely should be.    Post snap, moving from primary, to secondary to outlet... I don't think Baker 'Can't'* do that.   However the time that this Oline affords him doesn't match his processing speed.      It's possible his post snap mental progressions pick up their tempo the more familiar he becomes with the expanded playbook, NFL looks and time with his receivers.    His internal clock seems to be a great deal faster when coming off of play action, something a couple of us have noted.    But my concern, somewhat similar to the concern I had for Kizer when he was here, was the speed of his eyes and diagnosing what was in front of him when he wasn't given the benefit of moving defenders that play action/Chubb can give.  

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It appears as if the replacement of Zeitler with Kush had a bigger impact than expected. The guys on Surviving the Season podcast observed that teams with short QBs eg Saints and Seahawks (Drew Brees and Russell Wilson) have excellent guards. These guards ensure the throwing lanes that are absolutely necessary for shorter QBs success are kept open. This season our  throwing lanes have shrunk evidenced by Baker’s batted passes of 7 so far when he had 9 all last season. Have you seen Baker climb the pocket this season, which he used to do with aplomb last year? Dorsey failed to pay attention to detail here and it’s even more egregious since we’re hardly getting much production from Olivier Vernon. 

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QB School on YouTube did an excellent breakdown on Baker's troubles. Pretty much put most of the blame on Kitchens and poor offensive scheming:

 

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I am still considering starting Baker in my FL tomorrow. 2 reasons:

1) Higgins....If he plays, HUGE difference in all WR production. If he doesn't, I may play Goff or Stafford.

2) Baker....I still believe in the kid & refuse to give up on him although Higgins presence on field will impact my decision.

Mike

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8 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

I am still considering starting Baker in my FL tomorrow. 2 reasons:

1) Higgins....If he plays, HUGE difference in all WR production. If he doesn't, I may play Goff or Stafford.

2) Baker....I still believe in the kid & refuse to give up on him although Higgins presence on field will impact my decision.

Mike

I would not start Baker until you see signs of an overall "fix" to the way they are running the offense. So far there are no signs of it. But then again the other two have difficult games, one with SF's front 4 and the other @ GB. Tough decision Mike. Got a 3 sided coin?

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30 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I would not start Baker until you see signs of an overall "fix" to the way they are running the offense. So far there are no signs of it. But then again the other two have difficult games, one with SF's front 4 and the other @ GB. Tough decision Mike. Got a 3 sided coin?

Bill,

The fact they all have tough games is what drives me to start my Browns' guy, but if Higgins is inactive, that may sway me to one of the others. I guess I'll know tomorrow am.

Mike

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49 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

Bill,

The fact they all have tough games is what drives me to start my Browns' guy, but if Higgins is inactive, that may sway me to one of the others. I guess I'll know tomorrow am.

Mike

I have an equally tough choice with Rivers coming off one of his worst career games ever and Bridgewater (Brees stand-in) coming off his best game ever having to go over to Jax this week. But since Rivers is at home against a QB depleted Pitt, I'll stick with him most likely.  At least I started with max points plus a defensive TD out of the NE D already.

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Here's just a opinion on why am thinking Bake gets on track this week...

1) Dandy f'n Dolton= Sea-418 yards* 2 Td's..Rudolph=Sea-12 of 19-2 Tds...Twatwater=Sea.-19 of 27-2 Td's..Kyler Murray=Sea.-22 of 32-241 yards..Goff=Sea-29 of 49=395 yards* 1 td.. 

2) Sea. has been stout against the run in all 5 games played..Am talking like 34 yards to Cinn..And holding Rams/Pitt/ Saints👀 all gaining only 80-89 total rushing yards.. Chubb will need to bang hard in this one..Hawks bang anything that moves..   

Here's a few things that jump out at me on tape..

A.) Not sure if Bake is having a play call duel with Freddie? Freddie gets 15 seconds in Bakes helmet. Bake flips his wrist band open for line sight check out plays.. Could be as simple as Bake "Stop over thinking it"

B.) Titans & 49'er may have the largest wingspan munsters up front (Bills another) that we can't handle with a hodgepodge OL and a barely 6 ft. QB. Add Bake trying to fake pump a window open? adds to holding the ball to long & bails out of crushing pockets..

C.) These rushing munster fronts are allowing 6-7 to cover..the math is easy to see this with 3 WR's now running fire drill routes to Bakes strong side..Right?

D.) OBJ & Landry should not be seen 20 yards down field running routes 5 yards apart.. oh but they are..

In Ending, Am not* telling any of you's nothing you have not already seen for yourselves..But with Callaway now in his right spot & a hopeful Holly_wood Higgy sightings... I got Bake toasting the Hawks for over 300 yards & 2 TD's. Add a Chubb score...and Shucks, how bout this Kicker winning us a Game with some defense? .. Scoreboard- Good guys-27 Hawks fly back home with 20.. 

Bake.. just as pre-draft..Have that sit down again with Russ sometime this week..Topic: playing behind a questionable OL?..It really can't hurt even at your speed ;)  

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2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I would not start Baker until you see signs of an overall "fix" to the way they are running the offense. So far there are no signs of it. But then again the other two have difficult games, one with SF's front 4 and the other @ GB. Tough decision Mike. Got a 3 sided coin?

I can't start Baker until we see improvement, but the primary reason I wouldn't start him is his lack of production in the red zone. He's literally made the wrong guess on 90% (made that up) of his red zone reads. I said "guesses" because we all see him predetermining where to throw it. When you add in the fact he's not making ANY TD throws over 20 yards, you're getting the unenviable combination of no red zone production OR deep play touchdowns. Hard pass. 

Can this this change? Hell yes. But I have to see it, and I'm betting it will coincide with Kareem Hunt returning. 

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9 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

QB School on YouTube did an excellent breakdown on Baker's troubles. Pretty much put most of the blame on Kitchens and poor offensive scheming:

 

What I  took  away  from that  film  session was Baker too often  was looking for the  home run, plenty of  times  he had  Landry  wide open  for a  dump  off pass. 

And when  he forced  the end zone  throw  into  coverage, OBJ was wide open. :(

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3 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I can't start Baker until we see improvement, but the primary reason I wouldn't start him is his lack of production in the red zone. He's literally made the wrong guess on 90% (made that up) of his red zone reads. I said "guesses" because we all see him predetermining where to throw it. When you add in the fact he's not making ANY TD throws over 20 yards, you're getting the unenviable combination of no red zone production OR deep play touchdowns. Hard pass. 

Can this this change? Hell yes. But I have to see it, and I'm betting it will coincide with Kareem Hunt returning. 

Totally agree. Hunt is a red zone dragon and PA off him will work very well. I like Chubb as the workhorse a lot, but Hunt is just a special kind of player inside the 10.

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4 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I can't start Baker until we see improvement, but the primary reason I wouldn't start him is his lack of production in the red zone. He's literally made the wrong guess on 90% (made that up) of his red zone reads. I said "guesses" because we all see him predetermining where to throw it. When you add in the fact he's not making ANY TD throws over 20 yards, you're getting the unenviable combination of no red zone production OR deep play touchdowns. Hard pass. 

Can this this change? Hell yes. But I have to see it, and I'm betting it will coincide with Kareem Hunt returning. 

Also agree plus I don't know how he can predetermine to throw to frikking stone hands Demetrius Harris. I'll keep on repeating it, replacing Darren Fells and Orson Charles with Harris and Brown was another big mistake by Dorsey especially after he weakened the Oline by trading Zeitler.

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4 hours ago, MDDawg said:

Also agree plus I don't know how he can predetermine to throw to frikking stone hands Demetrius Harris. I'll keep on repeating it, replacing Darren Fells and Orson Charles with Harris and Brown was another big mistake by Dorsey especially after he weakened the Oline by trading Zeitler.

This. ALL of this! And don't forget that he also targeted Pharaoh Brown once, Calloway twice, and did I mention Demetrius Harris?! Also, he totally guessed against the Ravens off an RPO, but the pass was batted down at the line by a DL. Had it not been, it was a pick-6 because a Raven was waiting for it. 

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Agree. It's the crappy offensive scheming. Those who blame this on the loss of Zeitler, check out how his new team is doing from a QB pressure point of view. Daniel Jones is maybe the only other QB who's been under more pressure than Mayfield.

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For the umpteenth time...more play action...less shotgun

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48 minutes ago, Kvoethe said:

For the umpteenth time...more play action...less shotgun

Now watch they will come out in the shotgun on the first series of the game.

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12 hours ago, hish747 said:

Agree. It's the crappy offensive scheming. Those who blame this on the loss of Zeitler, check out how his new team is doing from a QB pressure point of view. Daniel Jones is maybe the only other QB who's been under more pressure than Mayfield.

Daniel Jones will be under a lot of pressure because that's the easiest way to defend a rookie QB. I don't have the stats with me but how many times has he been pressured with just 4 and sacked by a two man rush like we were last week?

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1 hour ago, BaconHound said:

He's not as good as many thought

You can't be a shitty QB and set the rookie TD record in less than a full season, though. Kitchens and Monken are really doing Mayfield a huge disservice with their horrible play calling.

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1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

I think it’s 75% Freddie and 15% Baker trying to do too much and 10% supporting cast (line and WRs) 

Absolutely. Excessive penalties is a discipline problem, and the buck stops at the coaching on that one. 

For all of the great moves Dorsey and Co. have made so far here in Cleveland, the hiring of Kitchens as HC might be a huge enough blunder to cancel out those earlier good moves 

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1 minute ago, jbluhm86 said:

You can't be a shitty QB and set the rookie TD record in less than a full season, though. Kitchens and Monken are really doing Mayfield a huge disservice with their horrible play calling.

Dear receivers- please catch the damn ball when it hits you in the hands!!

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1 minute ago, hoorta said:

Dear receivers- please catch the damn ball when it hits you in the hands!!

That too. It's like we have a bunch of Greg Little's out there as receivers.

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