A few observations from Monday Night

[marcus]

I live in Savannah, GA so I get to see the Browns on average, about twice a year. I was really excited about 3 of the first 5 of their games being on national television. After all 3 I can’t help but be disappointed. Here’s what I’ve observed.

1. We run the ball far less than we should.

- Nick Chubb is extraordinary. Highly under utilized and it’s mainly why we’ve struggled offensively.

2. We press after big plays.

- The other team scores, there’s this inexplicable need to get it all back in one play. That mindset leads to injuries and even worse turnovers.

3. Our Offensive Line is God Awful at pass blocking.

- For the type of plays being called, Baker has no time to allow the routes to develop.

- Reminds me of when Mike Martz was running the Bears offense with Jay Cutler. Too many down the field plays with a line that can’t hold up for as long as needed.

4. We could use an actual fullback.

- The Niners demonstrated why that is last night. They help create seals for the running game, help in the pass game as a blocker and/or receiver. If you’re really lucky they can run the ball every now and then.

5. Baker should concentrate more on the game itself vs. what everyone else has to say.

- Cool it with all facets of the media

- Put in extra time on technique & film study

- Enough endorsements already, winning should always be the priority.

6. The defense found out what it’s like against a coach that knows how to hurt you. They’ll be fine but they were due for bad game.

7. Higgins needs to get back on the field fast.

These are what come to my mind the most. Would love for you guys to add what your observations are.

[calfoxwc]

19 minutes ago, marcus said:

3. Our Offensive Line is God Awful at pass blocking.

- For the type of plays being called, Baker has no time to allow the routes to develop.

My favorite point - where are the quick slants? Like they used to throw to Njoku? Where was a quick throw to Hilliard?

You know they were going to try to shut down Chubb, who still got 87 yards. Baker had no chance most of the time.

[jiggins7919]

Many of us like having a FB, and we briefly experimented it in preseason before our guy got a concussion. Apparently he was immediately laying the wood but got cut shortly after the injury. It should be noted that most teams don't use a FB, but I've always liked them. Also noted is that the 49's have the best one in the game and use him perfectly. 

Baker had time to throw more often than not. Did we have several plays blow up on us. Yeah we did. Was it too many? Yes it was. But the stats show that he has enough time to throw and the problem is that he can't find the open guy, the routes are too long, and he's absolutely atrocious at hitting his outlet. Baker misses more easy passes to his RB or TE than anyone I've ever seen. He just doesn't throw it for some reason. He needs to understand that 4 yards is OK! 

And what the HELL is going on with Baker's ball security. I mean, Jesus. It also didn't help that Greg Robinson had a terrible game and got beat multiple times by Bosa. What really hurts is that Myles Garrett, our defensive player of the year candidate, didn't do shit. Sure he had a sack, but it meant nothing. He certainly wasn't a factor, not like Bosa was. What I'm saying is, we need our stars to act like stars, and that's not happening. How many passes has OBJ dropped the past 2 games? 

What also hurts is how close we are to making plays. Baker's first pick was a freakin touchdown but he got hit right when he let it loose causing it to be short and into the hands of that jackass Sherman. He got roasted by Calloway but got bailed out. Then, Baker hits Calloway in the hands for a TD, and while the throw wasn't good, it should have been a score. Basically our players aren't making plays. 

Let me tell you something else...Baker can't throw worth a damn. I'm not sure if it's his footwork opening up or if he's hearing footsteps, but he can't throw worth a shit. Almost everything is high, he can't hit OBJ worth a damn, he doesn't see the field, and he can't hit the deep ball. Name me ONE deep ball Baker hit this year. You can't because there isn't one. Not one, and don't bring up that one-handed OBJ catch because that was garbage and we got a FG out of it. 

You want to know what an offense is supposed to look like, just watch San Francisco. Timing, running the ball, quick passing, exploiting the middle of the field, and finishing with touchdowns. That's an offense. We came out with two trick plays and a whole bunch of nothing. Our best throw came from our own WR. I don't know if we can figure things out, but all those games everyone expects us to win in the second half of the season aren't looking like victories anymore, are they? And here this now, if we're 2-5 after the Patriots game, which I'm betting we will be, the rumblings will be very loud. SOMEONE will be let go, whether it's Kitchens or Monken. Our offense really is that bad, and you can't just hand it off to Nick Chubb 50 times a game. 

We'll see what we're made of Sunday, and as luck would have it, Seattle comes off a nice 10 days of rest. They'll be healthy, rested, and smelling blood. We'll have our backs to the wall and we need a herculean effort to stave off the negativity because it's coming quicker than we want. 

[nickers]

Is Owen Marecic still available?

[LBC mike]

you are funny nickers 

[TexasAg1969]

jiggins-kind of hard to throw a deep ball when your lunchmoney is taken in less that two seconds 90% 0f the time.

[flyingfooldoug]

I think Freddie got too much too fast. Last year he just had a few players to coach until mid season. Then he took over the whole offense. Remember when he asked Baker what plays he did not like and took them out of the playbook. Then focused on running the O which he did fairly well.  Running the whole team tho seems to be a little much for him. The O, D and ST and media is much more than OC. At least for the moment. My thought is to give him an assistant HC. Somebody to help more on the administrative side of things and let Freddie coach more and paperwork less.  Him and Baker worked well together and the FO should find ways to keep that going. 

[bjh2130]

37 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

jiggins-kind of hard to throw a deep ball when your lunchmoney is taken in less that two seconds 90% 0f the time.

Like i said in the game thread on average both this week and on the season Baker has the 2nd highest snap to pass time in the league..... can't believe anyone can complete a downfield pass if that's the case for baker. (Reference next gen stats)

[SdBacker80]

10 hours ago, marcus said:

I live in Savannah, GA so I get to see the Browns on average, about twice a year. I was really excited about 3 of the first 5 of their games being on national television. After all 3 I can’t help but be disappointed. Here’s what I’ve observed.

1. We run the ball far less than we should.

- Nick Chubb is extraordinary. Highly under utilized and it’s mainly why we’ve struggled offensively.

2. We press after big plays.

- The other team scores, there’s this inexplicable need to get it all back in one play. That mindset leads to injuries and even worse turnovers.

3. Our Offensive Line is God Awful at pass blocking.

- For the type of plays being called, Baker has no time to allow the routes to develop.

- Reminds me of when Mike Martz was running the Bears offense with Jay Cutler. Too many down the field plays with a line that can’t hold up for as long as needed.

4. We could use an actual fullback.

- The Niners demonstrated why that is last night. They help create seals for the running game, help in the pass game as a blocker and/or receiver. If you’re really lucky they can run the ball every now and then.

5. Baker should concentrate more on the game itself vs. what everyone else has to say.

- Cool it with all facets of the media

- Put in extra time on technique & film study

- Enough endorsements already, winning should always be the priority.

6. The defense found out what it’s like against a coach that knows how to hurt you. They’ll be fine but they were due for bad game.

7. Higgins needs to get back on the field fast.

These are what come to my mind the most. Would love for you guys to add what your observations are.

I Agree with a lot of this.

we need the offense to run through Chubb with Baker playaction which Means more Baker under center.  Where are the RPOs too they have historically worked well?

FB - I don’t know.  

I wish we had numbers on our empty set formation.  It seems like every time we are in it we have WR running deep and baker bailing right. Scrap it.

The line had a poor performance they’ve had a couple good ones as well.  Rams and Niners will make you look ordinary. I’d place play calling and Baker as more of the issues than the line.

The Defense secondary right now - paper Tigers we need our corners back.  

 

 

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

jiggins-kind of hard to throw a deep ball when your lunchmoney is taken in less that two seconds 90% 0f the time.

It’s what Baker is doing when he has 4 or 5 second is alarming and 3,4,5 seconds is more of the rule when he takes a snap.

We need to study NE and KC - the ball is out in 2 seconds and those lines the QBs are playing behind nothing special. 

[hish747]

1 hour ago, flyingfooldoug said:

I think Freddie got too much too fast. Last year he just had a few players to coach until mid season. Then he took over the whole offense. Remember when he asked Baker what plays he did not like and took them out of the playbook. Then focused on running the O which he did fairly well.  Running the whole team tho seems to be a little much for him. The O, D and ST and media is much more than OC. At least for the moment. My thought is to give him an assistant HC. Somebody to help more on the administrative side of things and let Freddie coach more and paperwork less.  Him and Baker worked well together and the FO should find ways to keep that going. 

This is exactly what it comes down to. There is no way he could learn to do everything a head coach needs to know in such a short amount of time and on top of that actually do it while trying to be the offensive play caller. Way too much, way too soon. He needs help.

[calfoxwc]

11 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Let me tell you something else...Baker can't throw worth a damn. I'm not sure if it's his footwork opening up or if he's hearing footsteps, but he can't throw worth a shit. Almost everything is high, he can't hit OBJ worth a damn, he doesn't see the field, and he can't hit the deep ball. Name me ONE deep ball Baker hit this year. You can't because there isn't one. Not one, and don't bring up that one-handed OBJ catch because that was garbage and we got a FG out of it. 

It is true he is throwing bad, but aren't the high throws a result of having your weight on the back foot, knee bent? or one of the reasons?

    Baker is trying desperately to make a play, with the oline collapsing Tim Couch style. It was a very bad matchup, and the offensive line is having a really tough time. They did get their timing back for the ratskunk game... again, he didn't have time to set his feet most of the time. I will admit - a few times he had time - but he still moves because he lost confidence in the offensive line already, and the moving results in crap throws all too often.

The oline collapsed, and so did Baker's performance. But I watched Peyton Manning's oline collapse in a playoff game years ago, and he ended up throwing four interceptions that game.

 the niners are akin to the Rams - loaded. The Browns will bounce back. again.

[MDDawg]

31 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

It is true he is throwing bad, but aren't the high throws a result of having your weight on the back foot, knee bent? or one of the reasons?

    Baker is trying desperately to make a play, with the oline collapsing Tim Couch style. It was a very bad matchup, and the offensive line is having a really tough time. They did get their timing back for the ratskunk game... again, he didn't have time to set his feet most of the time. I will admit - a few times he had time - but he still moves because he lost confidence in the offensive line already, and the moving results in crap throws all too often.

The oline collapsed, and so did Baker's performance. But I watched Peyton Manning's oline collapse in a playoff game years ago, and he ended up throwing four interceptions that game.

 the niners are akin to the Rams - loaded. The Browns will bounce back. again.

The problem with Baker (and the playcaller, Freddie) is that they appear to panic when down and go for chunk plays rather than methodically working back into the game with short passes. Defenses have picked up on that and easily pin their ears back with our suspect O line.

[calfoxwc]

57 minutes ago, MDDawg said:

The problem with Baker (and the playcaller, Freddie) is that they appear to panic when down and go for chunk plays rather than methodically working back into the game with short passes. Defenses have picked up on that and easily pin their ears back with our suspect O line.

true, it seems that way - I just wonder why they don't run the quick slants other teams run so much.  But Kitchens and co will fix it.

[jiggins7919]

3 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

It is true he is throwing bad, but aren't the high throws a result of having your weight on the back foot, knee bent? or one of the reasons?

    Baker is trying desperately to make a play, with the oline collapsing Tim Couch style. It was a very bad matchup, and the offensive line is having a really tough time. They did get their timing back for the ratskunk game... again, he didn't have time to set his feet most of the time. I will admit - a few times he had time - but he still moves because he lost confidence in the offensive line already, and the moving results in crap throws all too often.

The oline collapsed, and so did Baker's performance. But I watched Peyton Manning's oline collapse in a playoff game years ago, and he ended up throwing four interceptions that game.

 the niners are akin to the Rams - loaded. The Browns will bounce back. again.

Problem is, the Seahawks might just be the best team in the dang league right now, and I don't want ANY part of them.  I dare you to look at Russell Wilson's stats this year.  Dare you.  🙂

[mjp28]

16 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Problem is, the Seahawks might just be the best team in the dang league right now, and I don't want ANY part of them.  I dare you to look at Russell Wilson's stats this year.  Dare you.  🙂

OK I'm stupid I'll bite......

Passing											Rushing					Fumbles					Off. Snaps		Def. Snaps		ST Snaps
Date	Week	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Rush	Yds	Y/A	TD	TD	Fmb	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Num	Pct	Num	Pct	Num	Pct
2019-09-08	1	SEA		CIN	W 21-20	*	14	20	70.00	196	2	0	134.6	4	35	9.80	11.80	4	8	2.00	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	51	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2019-09-15	2	SEA	@	PIT	W 28-26	*	29	35	82.86	300	3	0	131.0	4	26	8.57	10.29	6	22	3.67	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	78	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2019-09-22	3	SEA		NOR	L 27-33	*	32	50	64.00	406	2	0	102.6	0	0	8.12	8.92	7	51	7.29	2	2	0	0	0	0	0	83	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2019-09-29	4	SEA	@	ARI	W 27-10	*	22	28	78.57	240	1	0	114.3	4	15	8.57	9.29	2	7	3.50	0	0	2	0	1	0	0	62	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2019-10-03	5	SEA		LAR	W 30-29	*	17	23	73.91	268	4	0	151.8	1	6	11.65	15.13	8	32	4.00	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	74	100%	0	0%	0	0%
Upcoming Games · Bye in Week 11

 

Oh shit.

[mjp28]

On the bright side look at who they have played two tough teams 1-1, three pansies 3-0.  

And yet the books have it as CLE +1.5, hmmmmm, why not higher?  

[mjp28]

Let's finish this line of thought, Mayfield.......

Passing											Rushing				Fumbles					Off. Snaps		Def. Snaps		ST Snaps
Date	Week	Tm		Opp	Result	GS	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	Rush	Yds	Y/A	TD	Fmb	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Num	Pct	Num	Pct	Num	Pct
2019-09-08	1	CLE		TEN	L 13-43	*	25	38	65.79	285	1	3	64.0	5	41	7.50	4.47	0	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	71	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2019-09-16	2	CLE	@	NYJ	W 23-3	*	19	35	54.29	325	1	1	83.6	3	20	9.29	8.57	0	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	69	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2019-09-22	3	CLE		LAR	L 13-20	*	18	36	50.00	195	1	1	64.0	3	20	5.42	4.72	1	-1	-1.00	0	1	0	1	0	0	68	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2019-09-29	4	CLE	@	BAL	W 40-25	*	20	30	66.67	342	1	1	102.4	1	5	11.40	10.57	3	1	0.33	0	0	0	0	0	0	67	100%	0	0%	0	0%
2019-10-07	5	CLE	@	SFO	L 3-31	*	8	22	36.36	100	0	2	13.4	4	42	4.55	0.45	0	0		0	2	0	0	0	0	46	94%	0	0%	0	0%
Upcoming Games · Bye in Week 7

Oh shit.

So who's due for a breakout game maybe?

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Problem is, the Seahawks might just be the best team in the dang league right now, and I don't want ANY part of them.  I dare you to look at Russell Wilson's stats this year.  Dare you.  🙂

Is 12 touchdowns compared to 0 interceptions good? 

[AP1]

There are more factors than I'll list but I'll offer the 2018 Colts as an example. Frank Reich was a first year coach, that had only been an OC prior to being hired as a head coach. He was not even the Colts first choice.

They started 2018 1-6 and things have turned out okay in Indianapolis with less offensive firepower and a significantly stronger offensive line.

[Tour2ma]

22 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Many of us like having a FB, and we briefly experimented it in preseason before our guy got a concussion

Plus we traded the guy, an H-back, who replaced him... and that guy was doing a decent job lead blocking... and would be an asset at TE to boot.

1 hour ago, AP1 said:

... with less offensive firepower and a significantly stronger offensive line.

Cha-ching!

Plus an underrated D... including a couple of Browns castoffs.