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So.... are we now fixed or are the Ravens not that good?

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2 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

The ratbuzzards are talented - but the Browns had the heart of champions this game.

I hope we can look back at the end of the  regular season and say this is why we got in the playoffs.

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A lot of encouraging things to lean me towards "we're the real deal". In no particular order:

-I said all week I hoped Wilks and the crew looked at the KC tape on how to limit Jackson in making him a pocket thrower. Those end runs for 10 yards are dazzling, but manageable in the context of the game. I would have liked to see them play up a little more, but another excellent defensive plan by Wilks. It also should please everyone how deep our secondary talent is (why I wasn't much about drafting Greedy, but I'll save my rant).

-In a similar vein, kudos big time to Kitchens on realizing the weakness of the Ravens defense-edge speed/secondary depth. Humphry played well on OBJ, but Landry obviously feasted on the other subpar dudes. Who's talking now, Earl? Also, I really hope Humphry gets a game or two suspension. The man committed felony assault, and that's not being dramatic.

-To continue, the use of 12 personnel and edge runs was the "seal of victory" this week. The Ravens simply had no answer for the toss plays in this alignment, to obviously include the big run which put the game away.

-I will give props to the Ravens running game, however. That type of offense with a TD lead late in the 3rd quarter is going to be tough to stop. Fortunately for Browns fans, that defense aint what it used to be in holding leads.

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9 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

The whole defense and the coaching were graded "F".  Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch!🤗

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We are giving way too much credit to this second team secondary.  They have done a decent job but the Ravens like the Baltimore Sun beat writer mentioned could have had the short passing game all day.  Eventually we need guys to make plays on passes before the sticks. 

We will need Greedy and Ward when we play a QB that is executing at a higher level.  That ain’t Goff right now and it’s not Jackson.  

Not to be negative Nancy but let’s hope those Hammies heal quickly 

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27 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

We are giving way too much credit to this second team secondary.  They have done a decent job but the Ravens like the Baltimore Sun beat writer mentioned could have had the short passing game all day.  Eventually we need guys to make plays on passes before the sticks. 

We will need Greedy and Ward when we play a QB that is executing at a higher level.  That ain’t Goff right now and it’s not Jackson.  

Not to be negative Nancy but let’s hope those Hammies heal quickly 

I mean, that was overtly the scheme by Wilks to limit big plays. You really can't be mad that a corner back isn't making the play on a 5 yard pass when they're 12 yards off the ball.

I'm not saying these guys are all-pro, but I'd bet based on the last two weeks teams would be frothing to have the talent we have in the secondary. Holding two of the most dynamic offenses in football in check with 2nd string dudes is pretty dang impressive.

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51 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

I mean, that was overtly the scheme by Wilks to limit big plays. You really can't be mad that a corner back isn't making the play on a 5 yard pass when they're 12 yards off the ball.

I'm not saying these guys are all-pro, but I'd bet based on the last two weeks teams would be frothing to have the talent we have in the secondary. Holding two of the most dynamic offenses in football in check with 2nd string dudes is pretty dang impressive.

The Ravens had 8/9 yards on first down staring at them whenever they wanted.  They could have gone gimmick run at that point or play action. It was a bad game plan given what the Browns gave them.  The prior game- Rams had four drops in the first half and Goff missed 3/4 other throws otherwise it was 10/15 down the field and score as they did in the second half.  You can’t give 8/9 yards on first down all game 

You have to be pleased with the Defense the last two weeks but realistic as well.  We are better against the run for sure- we’ve had some outstanding performers but The personnel and plan employed the last two weeks will not work against a QB that is executing well.  We have three coming up that are- (Garrop, Wilson and Brady) so thank God we drafted Greedy and we can throw Ward on the side. We need them we need their speed and athleticism contesting outs and slants 

 

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I just watched some post game comments on the ny post website.  Lamar Jackson...i couldnt understand a word he said...bizarre.

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4 minutes ago, Kvoethe said:

I just watched some post game comments on the ny post website.  Lamar Jackson...i couldnt understand a word he said...bizarre.

yep. lol. I wonder how the heck he calls the plays in the huddle, and if he does, how the offense understands him.

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1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

The Ravens had 8/9 yards on first down staring at them whenever they wanted.  They could have gone gimmick run at that point or play action. It was a bad game plan given what the Browns gave them.  The prior game- Rams had four drops in the first half and Goff missed 3/4 other throws otherwise it was 10/15 down the field and score as they did in the second half.  You can’t give 8/9 yards on first down all game 

You have to be pleased with the Defense the last two weeks but realistic as well.  We are better against the run for sure- we’ve had some outstanding performers but The personnel and plan employed the last two weeks will not work against a QB that is executing well.  We have three coming up that are- (Garrop, Wilson and Brady) so thank God we drafted Greedy and we can throw Ward on the side. We need them we need their speed and athleticism contesting outs and slants 

 

I mean, I don't what to say that's going to change your mind. Your view is the Ravens schemed poorly, but my view is that Wilks schemed strongly. To the bolded point, this is exactly what we did and limited the Rams offense to 20 points and the Ravens to essentially 18 points (removing the BS TD at the end). We did that with LITERALLY our entire starting secondary out last week along with our starting OLB, and this week basically being the same. What more do you want or expect? I'd be happy with that even with all 11 starters on the field. The pundits are rightly praising Wilks for his plan, cause it's working. You'd be a bit short-sighted to suggest we lost the Rams game based on defense.

I'm being very realistic in understanding these 2nd string dudes aren't going to the Pro Bowl, but I just don't see how one can possibly be more than strongly impressed with Wilks and this unit of players. If it ain't broke, don't fix it and this defense is playing very well right now.

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I still cringe during replays of the whitehead interception...he was a toe drag away from a snapped leg...

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12 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

I mean, I don't what to say that's going to change your mind. Your view is the Ravens schemed poorly, but my view is that Wilks schemed strongly. To the bolded point, this is exactly what we did and limited the Rams offense to 20 points and the Ravens to essentially 18 points (removing the BS TD at the end). We did that with LITERALLY our entire starting secondary out last week along with our starting OLB, and this week basically being the same. What more do you want or expect? I'd be happy with that even with all 11 starters on the field. The pundits are rightly praising Wilks for his plan, cause it's working. You'd be a bit short-sighted to suggest we lost the Rams game based on defense.

I'm being very realistic in understanding these 2nd string dudes aren't going to the Pro Bowl, but I just don't see how one can possibly be more than strongly impressed with Wilks and this unit of players. If it ain't broke, don't fix it and this defense is playing very well right now.

I don’t think you understand my post.  The defense has played well - very well considering the circumstances that you laid out.  If we want to continue that standard we need Greedy and Ward back.  

If the plan is  “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”.  We are gonna get dink and dunked to death the next three weeks with TJ and Co. giving the cushions that they are giving up.   I wasn’t the only one that saw a flawed game plan from the Turds.  We will take it.  I don’t think Shanny makes the same mistake.

We have three QBs and three schemes coming up that will take 8/9 yards all day control the clock and beat us 27-20.  That’s all.  You need to make a few plays on those routes and not freely get into a 2nd and short.  Fantastic job though we beat the Ravens we are tied for first place.

 

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In case you haven't noticed,wilks changes the scheme for the opponent. Sounds like you think the D that beat the rats is gonna be the same for the 9ers. Carrie and mitchel have started in this league, the defense does not hinge on the youngins availability

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11 minutes ago, choco said:

In case you haven't noticed,wilks changes the scheme for the opponent. Sounds like you think the D that beat the rats is gonna be the same for the 9ers. Carrie and mitchel have started in this league, the defense does not hinge on the youngins availability

I hope you are right I think you are right but We also played very similar ball with our back 4 in both games.  I know Wilks isn’t going in with the same overall defensive game plan he employed against the Ravens- vastly different offense.  The Rams plan probably something similar to what we will do I just hope we can get in the grill of some of these WRs but that’s not Carries game. 

If I need someone to cover I’m looking at Ward and Greedy if I need tacklers Carrie and Mitchell both have their different strengths. The Niners have a really good slot WR it would help to get one or both back this week.  The Ravens couldn’t hurt us but Kupp abused us the week before.  I think it is imperative to have one or both back the next three games.

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1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

I don’t think you understand my post.  The defense has played well - very well considering the circumstances that you laid out.  If we want to continue that standard we need Greedy and Ward back.  

If the plan is  “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”.  We are gonna get dink and dunked to death the next three weeks with TJ and Co. giving the cushions that they are giving up.   I wasn’t the only one that saw a flawed game plan from the Turds.  We will take it.  I don’t think Shanny makes the same mistake.

We have three QBs and three schemes coming up that will take 8/9 yards all day control the clock and beat us 27-20.  That’s all.  You need to make a few plays on those routes and not freely get into a 2nd and short.  Fantastic job though we beat the Ravens we are tied for first place.

 

Fair enough, but this is where we just aren't going to agree. The plan has objectively worked, so why mess up a good thing? Obviously if we get gashed Monday night, the 1/2 time plan needs to be molded. But simply stated, if the defense with these dudes playing (which seems likely next week) play as well as they did the last two weeks we have a great chance to win. No reason to change that up.

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I didn't see the game yesterday - and won't see many unless it's a nationally televised game as I have recently moved and finally dumped DirecTV. Simply looking at the stats and seeing the highlights, it looks like Freddie and company came in with a solid game plan all the way around, and more importantly, the players played really well.

As for the original question? I'm guessing it's a matter of both with more weighting on the Browns being 'fixed'..... a rookie HC, a 2nd year QB ( who when compared to Tom or Aaron is barely holding his own head up, much less crawling, walking or eating solid food) and a roster full of young dudes that  just don't know how to expect to win...... yet.

So far they are right where I expected them to be..... some good, some bad, some great and some awful, all equaling a competitive team that finds ways to hurt itself a little more than it does to help itself.

Baring injuries or suspensions, the Browns should at the very least be in the talk of the playoff hunt well into late December. 

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3 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

I just watched some post game comments on the ny post website.  Lamar Jackson...i couldn't understand a word he said...bizarre.

& LOL, our pal Colin Cowherd was praising Lamar for not doing the endorsement thing, and bashing Baker because he was.... I think we pointed out in another thread, to get endorsement deals, Lamar needs a speech coach and plastic surgery...   

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We're a good team, potentially very good but not great yet. Watched the last two minutes of KC vs the Lions, now KC is a great team.

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44 minutes ago, MDDawg said:

We're a good team, potentially very good but not great yet. Watched the last two minutes of KC vs the Lions, now KC is a great team.

I'll tell you what, I know we were intentionally playing uber soft in our secondary to keep things in front of us, but it seemed to be a little TOO soft.  Garappolo is a very accurate passer and that soft coverage isn't going to fly against the 49's.  I know, I know, our defensive scheme was probably adjusted to be super soft, but this is a game where we REALLY need Greedy and Denzel back, and unfortunately, I don't believe either is slated to return.  Garappolo doesn't like to hold onto the ball and he'll let it fly when somebody is open, so the best thing you can do is cover like crazy because I believe he can be rattled.  You have to get him off his first read because when he drops back and plants that foot, he's as accurate as anyone.  If you can force him to survey the field, I think Myles Garrett can wreck the game.

I'm going to say a prayer to the hamstring gods, and hopefully we get our young DB's back!  😂

Quick edit:  I also believe we're going to see the return of our down-field passing game.  Have you noticed that we really don't go deep that much?  Well, that's probably going to change.  Why?  Antonio Calloway.  This last game was a total eye-opener in terms of seeing just how much attention OBJ gets.  Just watch Seals-Jones TD catch, and his 59 yarder.  On both plays the defenders cheat off Seals-Jones and leave him COMPLETELY wide open.  Jarvis Landry isn't a burner, and neither is Higgins.  Ratley has decent speed, but we've never used him in that capacity.  On the other hand, Antonio Calloway DOES have vertical speed, so if you're going to try and double OBJ or bracket him with a safety, Calloway is likely to get some single coverage and opportunities to get deep.  It might not sound like a huge deal, but it is.  

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22 hours ago, ATOM said:

the D surprised you ? thats why i felt we would win as far as the O seems to me they are gelling  and the ratbirds are over rated

It's both. But the improved play calling was the largest factor. Almost any team having the QB drop back 40-50+ times is doomed. 25-30 pass attempts is much wiser. And the proof was in the pudding. Chubb set up the passing game, and Baker benefited.  

 

 

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21 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

And I liked what Freddie said about expecting the backups to play up to the starters LEVEL(???) or they would not even be on the team.

If you are missing the word "level" where I inserted it, then that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard...

There's a reason that there are First team, 2nd team, etc., players or else a DC would just draw names out of a hat each week.

 

Now if he meant "know the playbook, work hard, no blown coverages, do your best" that's a different thing...

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3 hours ago, D Bone said:

I didn't see the game yesterday

Probably why we won...

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Consensus here seems to be about the same as In the Tavern...

Some of both...

Works for me.

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23 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

I would say a little of both.

The Browns are a young team with a rookie HC.

The offense looked good today...but the defense surprised me.

Kudos to the offensive line, they surprised me as well.

I’m glad I had this game on the DVR, it’s a game I could watch over again. 👍

Email that to me!!! I'm stuck out here in Cheifs Kingdom!

 

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5 hours ago, choco said:

In case you haven't noticed,wilks changes the scheme for the opponent. Sounds like you think the D that beat the rats is gonna be the same for the 9ers. Carrie and mitchel have started in this league, the defense does not hinge on the youngins availability

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

If you are missing the word "level" where I inserted it, then that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard...

There's a reason that there are First team, 2nd team, etc., players or else a DC would just draw names out of a hat each week.

 

Now if he meant "know the playbook, work hard, no blown coverages, do your best" that's a different thing...

In his explanation, he did say that if they had no confidence in the player and they didnt think he could do the job, then he wouldnt even have made the roster......

Of course, at that moment, I was praying someone would ask him about Austin Corbett......hahaha.....

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On 9/29/2019 at 7:26 PM, SdBacker80 said:

Close we had one on the first drive and one after they cut the lead to 6.

 

...and the next play put us up 12.

-----------------

are we now fixed or are the Ravens not that good?

...both....and neither.

Both teams have young, learning QB's.  They're going to have good games and not so good games.  And teams go, as their QB's go (the running game rarely carries a team to victory).   < is Nick Chubb fast or what >   I'm happy to see that we've reduced the number of dumb penalties.  I can understand that you hold a guy in order to keep the QB from getting creamed....but the false starts, illegal shifts, off sides, kick a guy in the head, etc......it's hard enough  playing against the opponent.  

 

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Here's a great article about Baker Mayfield and the difference between this game and previous contests. This goes to show both how talented Mayfield is, and how much he still has to learn. Especially frustrating was his interception. Not only were we driving with a chance to go up two scores, but Mayfield predetermined where to go with this ball, as he assumed Landry would be open. Had he read the play correctly, Chubb easily gets the first down. Making matters worse is the fact the Ravens took the pick and tied up the game. 

This is definitely not a bash against Mayfield. We know he's young and he's not going to be perfect. The problem comes in the form of the predetermination. THAT'S what he has to avoid, and he needs to trust himself and read the defense. The other thing to work on is the occasional "feeling imaginary pressure and rolling right for no reason" hiccup. On the red zone incompletion to Ratley, Mayfield had the ENTIRE left side of the pocket/field to use, and had he done so he could have fired an EASY TD bullet to Seals-Jones, as his defender fell down. Again, not bashing Mayfield, but these are the kind of plays he needs to make for us to score 7, not 3. 

I could write a hundred good things about Baker from Sunday, and I likely will after my interview. He really grew up in a tough game, but that running attack won't always be there, and we'll need him to finish off more drives from the pocket if we're going to be the team we all hope to be! 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10/how-baker-mayfield-stopped-rolling-into-chaos-and-started-throwing-from-the-pocket-vs-ravens-film-review.html

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thats the great thing about baker. i have no worry that he will become complacent and not put int he work. veterans make mistakes, other teams have good players as well, so expecting perfection from any player is ridiculous. just get a little better every week, thats all we can reasonably ask.

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18 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

... and I likely will after my interview.

Wait... WHAT?

 

 

 

If the above is literal, then who is "predetermining now?" ;)

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