BROWNS ODDS MAKING PLAYOFFS with *6-9 start (*revised 12-23) at 0.00%.....game over..

[mjp28]

THE BROWNS ODDS OF MAKING THE PLAYOFFS WITH THE 1-2 START   FWIW, I just ran across this and thought I would give it a try and see what happens.  https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/playoffodds

It appears to be FREE to sign up and get more detailed information.    *** NOTE:.  THIS WILL BE UPDATED AS THE SEASON MOVES ALONG. ***

 

 

 

Innovative Statistics

Football Outsiders exclusive statistics

DVOA PLAYOFF ODDS REPORT

PagePick PositionOverall Team EfficiencyTeam OffenseTeam DefenseSpecial TeamsQuarterbacksRunning BacksTight EndsWide ReceiversOffensive LineDefensive LineNFL Main Drive StatsNFL Offensive Drive StatsNFL Defensive Drive StatsNFL Pace/Time StatsNFL Playoff OddsNFL Snap CountsNCAA: FEI Ratings, DefenseNCAA: FEI Ratings, OffenseNCAA: FEI Ratings, OverallNCAA: FEI Ratings, Special TeamsNCAA: S&P Ratings, DefenseNCAA: S&P Ratings, OffenseNCAA: S&P Ratings, OverallNCAA: F/+ Combined RatingsNCAA: Defensive LineNCAA: Offensive LineNCAA: FEI Field Position

 

YearPick Year2018

Revised as of 09/24/19, through Week 3.

Compiled by Mike Harris

The playoff odds report plays out the season 30,000 times. A random draw assigns each team a win or loss for each game. The probability that a team will be given a win is based on an equation which considers the current DAVE ratings of the two teams as well as home-field advantage. (DVOA ratings are explained here.) Mean Wins is the average number of wins for this team over the 30,000 simulations. Odds are given for winning each playoff seed, as well as for winning the division (DIV), earning a bye week (BYE), or winning a wild card (WC). TOT represents odds of making the playoffs in any fashion.

Mean Wins includes 0.5 wins for each tie.

• Carolina's DAVE is penalized 3.3% for backup quarterback Kyle Allen. Cam Newton returns by in Week 8 in 20% of simulations, increasing 20% each week until he is back by Week 12 in all simulations.
• Jacksonville's DAVE is no longer penalized for backup quarterback Gardner Minshew.
• New Orleans' DAVE is penalized 13.6% for backup quarterback Teddy Twatwater. Drew Brees returns in Week 10 in 60% of simulations, Week 11 in 20% of simulations, and Week 12 in the rest of the simulations.
• New York Giants' DAVE accounts for the replacement of Eli Manning with Daniel Jones.
• New York Jets' DAVE is penalized 18.0% for third-string quarterback Luke Falk. Sam Darnold returns in Week 5 in 60% of simulations and Week 6 in all other simulations.
• Pittsburgh's DAVE accounts for the replacement of Ben Roethlisberger with Mason Rudolph.

(The AFCN results, see link for more.)

AFC North

 

Team	W-L	DAVE	Mean Wins	#1	#2	#3	#4	#5	#6	DIV	BYE	WC	TOT	CHANGE
BAL	2-1	16.4%	9.9	7.2%	14.6%	23.3%	24.8%	3.4%	4.4%	69.9%	21.8%	7.8%	77.6%	-1.8%
CLE	1-2	-0.1%	7.8	0.8%	2.8%	6.5%	11.5%	5.0%	7.5%	21.6%	3.6%	12.5%	34.1%	-3.9%
PIT	0-3	-14.0%	5.9	0.1%	0.5%	1.6%	3.8%	1.6%	3.1%	5.9%	0.6%	4.6%	10.6%	-3.9%
CIN	0-3	-22.5%	5.0	0.0%	0.2%	0.5%	1.9%	0.5%	1.4%	2.6%	0.2%	2.0%	4.5%	-1.0%

 

[mjp28]

If I read his analytics right the BROWNS have a 22% chance at the division 4% chance at a bye 13% chance at a wc and 34% chance overall.

So going 2-2 today would be HUGE!   MUST WIN?

[mjp28]

I can't wait to see the numbers run for 2-2 and a division win.

 

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, mjp28 said:

I can't wait to see the numbers run for 2-2 and a division win.

 

Well...these odds do change every single week....even day to day.

[mjp28]

Well this analytics approach seems to be working.  They now have a better chance of winning the division (43.4%) and making the playoffs (56.1%) than Baltimore.

What a difference a big win makes!

AFC North....after the win at Baltimore

 

Team	W-L	DAVE	Mean Wins	#1	#2	#3	#4	#5	#6	DIV	BYE	WC	TOT	CHANGE
BAL	2-2	10.8%	8.9	2.2%	6.5%	15.5%	15.0%	6.5%	7.4%	39.2%	8.7%	13.9%	53.1%	-24.5%
CLE	2-2	2.9%	8.8	2.1%	6.6%	15.0%	19.7%	5.3%	7.3%	43.4%	8.7%	12.7%	56.1%	21.9%
PIT	1-3	-3.4%	7.3	0.2%	2.0%	6.1%	8.4%	3.6%	5.8%	16.6%	2.1%	9.3%	25.9%	15.3%
CIN	0-4	-28.9%	4.1	0.0%	0.0%	0.2%	0.6%	0.1%	0.4%	0.8%	0.0%	0.5%	1.2%	-3.3%

[The Gipper]

12 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Well this analytics approach seems to be working.  They now have a better chance of winning the division (43.4%) and making the playoffs (56.1%) than Baltimore.

What a difference a big win makes!

AFC North....after the win at Baltimore

 

Team	W-L	DAVE	Mean Wins	#1	#2	#3	#4	#5	#6	DIV	BYE	WC	TOT	CHANGE
BAL	2-2	10.8%	8.9	2.2%	6.5%	15.5%	15.0%	6.5%	7.4%	39.2%	8.7%	13.9%	53.1%	-24.5%
CLE	2-2	2.9%	8.8	2.1%	6.6%	15.0%	19.7%	5.3%	7.3%	43.4%	8.7%	12.7%	56.1%	21.9%
PIT	1-3	-3.4%	7.3	0.2%	2.0%	6.1%	8.4%	3.6%	5.8%	16.6%	2.1%	9.3%	25.9%	15.3%
CIN	0-4	-28.9%	4.1	0.0%	0.0%	0.2%	0.6%	0.1%	0.4%	0.8%	0.0%	0.5%	1.2%	-3.3%

I believe those number mean absofuckinglutely nothing.

[mjp28]

And a quick look at the playoffs after WEEK 4. Playoffs? Playoffs? Yeah playoffs!

 

Playoff Scenarios

This report lists the odds of each team

• Reaching the Conference Championship Game
• Winning the Conference Championship Game
• Winning the Super Bowl

Team	Conf App	Conf Win	SB Win	16-0
NE. <--- nobody goes 16-0	73.2%	49.3%	32.1%	2.8%
KC	53.2%	25.4%	14.5%	0.6%
DAL	33.3%	19.1%	8.8%	0.0%
SF	30.2%	16.6%	7.3%	0.1%
LAR	20.6%	10.7%	4.6%	0.0%
NO	24.0%	11.1%	4.2%	0.0%
PHI	15.4%	7.5%	3.0%	0.0%
SEA	14.0%	7.1%	2.9%	0.0%
CHI	13.8%	6.5%	2.7%	0.0%
GB	14.1%	6.5%	2.6%	0.0%
BAL	13.1%	5.1%	2.5%	0.0%
DET	13.4%	6.1%	2.4%	0.0%
LAC	11.0%	4.2%	2.0%	0.0%
CLE. <---- still below BAL?	11.4%	3.9%	1.8%	0.0%
TEN	9.2%	3.2%	1.6%	0.0%
HOU	9.7%	3.3%	1.4%	0.0%
CAR	6.5%	2.9%	1.1%	0.0%
MIN	5.6%	2.3%	0.9%	0.0%
TB	5.4%	2.3%	0.9%	0.0%
BUF	5.2%	1.6%	0.6%	0.0%
JAX	4.5%	1.3%	0.6%	0.0%
PIT. <---.	3.7%	1.1%	0.5%	0.0%
OAK	2.1%	0.6%	0.3%	0.0%
IND	2.8%	0.7%	0.2%	0.0%
ATL	1.9%	0.7%	0.2%	0.0%
NYG	1.7%	0.6%	0.2%	0.0%

MOD Edit:  Perusing the list the Bungles and 'Fins apparently have no chance.....  

 

[mjp28]

7 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I believe those number mean absofuckinglutely nothing.

If you mean those numbers  then skip all analytics because that's what they do. 

[mjp28]

And a favorite subject around here so who will be on the clock?  Probably not the Cleveland Browns.

ON THE CLOCK

 

This report lists the odds of each team earning the first overall draft pick in the 2020 NFL Draft.

 

 

Team	Top Pick	Top 5 Pick
MIA	63.3%	96.5%
CIN	14.6%	73.3%
WAS	7.3%	60.7%
DEN	4.8%	53.1%
ARI	5.1%	52.4%
NYJ	2.1%	28.9%
ATL	0.6%	20.4%
NYG	0.5%	16.3%
PIT	0.4%	14.0%
OAK	0.3%	13.9%
IND	0.3%	12.5%
JAX	0.2%	8.5%
TB	0.1%	6.9%
CAR	0.1%	6.1%
MIN	0.1%	5.6%
LAC	0.0%	4.3%
HOU	0.0%	4.2%
TEN	0.1%	4.1%
CLE <--- not even a top 5 pick?	0.1%	3.6%
BAL	0.0%	2.6%
BUF	0.0%	2.4%
DET	0.0%	2.3%
PHI	0.0%	2.1%
GB	0.0%	1.3%
SEA	0.0%	1.2%
CHI	0.0%	1.2%
LAR	0.0%	0.5%
NO	0.0%	0.4%
SF	0.0%	0.4%
DAL	0.0%	0.3%

[mjp28]

And one more I like this especially the children of Brady and hell freezes over.

Special Super Bowl Matchups

 

This report lists the odds of several "special" Super Bowl matchups.

 

 

Name	Teams	Chance
Jimmy Garoppolo Reunion Special	SF vs NE	8.0%
GOAT Quarterback Battle	NO vs NE	5.5%
Super Bowls XXXVI-LIII Rematch	LAR vs NE	5.2%
Super Bowls XXXIX-LII Rematch	PHI vs NE	3.8%
Super Bowl XLIX Rematch	SEA vs NE	3.5%
Super Bowl XX Rematch	CHI vs NE	3.3%
Super Bowl XXXI Rematch	GB vs NE	3.1%
Matt Patricia Reunion Special	DET vs NE	3.0%
Willie Roaf Memories Bowl	NO vs KC	2.8%
Missouri Revenge Bowl	LAR vs KC	2.8%
Andy Reid Reunion Special	PHI vs KC	1.8%
Super Bowl I Rematch	GB vs KC	1.7%
Matt Nagy Reunion Special	CHI vs KC	1.6%
Super Bowl XXXVIII Rematch	CAR vs NE	1.4%
AAFC Memorial Bowl	SF vs CLE	0.7%
Texas Bowl	DAL vs HOU	0.6%
Super Bowl IV Rematch	MIN vs KC	0.6%
Fight for L.A.	LAR vs LAC	0.5%
Drew Brees Reunion Special	NO vs LAC	0.4%
Super Bowl XXXIV Rematch	LAR vs TEN	0.4%
Return of the Rams	LAR vs CLE	0.4%
Super Bowl LI Rematch	ATL vs NE	0.4%
Earl Thomas Reunion Special	SEA vs BAL	0.3%
Super Bowls XXVII-XXVIII Rematch	DAL vs BUF	0.3%
Darren Sproles Reunion Special	PHI vs LAC	0.3%
Gulf Coast Challenge	NO vs HOU	0.3%
Super Bowls XLII-XLVI Rematch	NYG vs NE	0.3%
Matt LaFleur Reunion Special	GB vs TEN	0.3%
Hell Freezes Over	DET vs CLE	0.2%
Super Bowls X-XIII-XXX Rematch	DAL vs PIT	0.2%
Children of Brady	SF vs IND	0.1%
Super Bowl V Rematch	DAL vs IND	0.1%
Bay Area Bowl	SF vs OAK	0.1%
Nick Foles Reunion Special	PHI vs JAX	0.1%
Super Bowl XL Rematch	SEA vs PIT	0.1%
Super Bowl XIV Rematch	LAR vs PIT	0.1%
Super Bowl XLI Rematch	CHI vs IND	0.1%
Khalil Mack Reunion Special	CHI vs OAK	0.1%
Keystone Bowl	PHI vs PIT	0.1%
Super Bowl XV Rematch	PHI vs OAK	0.1%
2015 Draft Showdown	TB vs TEN	0.1%
Super Bowl XLIV Rematch	NO vs IND	0.1%
Super Bowl XLV Rematch	GB vs PIT	0.1%

[The Gipper]

26 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

If you mean those numbers  then skip all analytics because that's what they do. 

What I mean is that it is silly. 

I could have told before a game was played that the Patriots had a 99.9% chance of winning that division.  And I think my number is more valid that what this has put out.   I am saying that I do not believe there is analytics at all involved.....just guesswork...possibly no better than my own. 

[mjp28]

3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

What I mean is that it is silly. 

I could have told before a game was played that the Patriots had a 99.9% chance of winning that division.  And I think my number is more valid that what this has put out.   I am saying that I do not believe there is analytics at all involved.....just guesswork...possibly no better than my own. 

Not guesswork that is plugging in anything you want these are based on analytical data nothing is made up or guessed.  It is all explained at the site.

analytics noun: science of logical analysis

Not guesswork the science of guessers. 

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Not guesswork that is plugging in anything you want these are based on analytical data nothing is made up or guessed.  It is all explained at the site.

analytics noun: science of logical analysis

Not guesswork the science of guessers. 

That may be OK in a lot of areas.   But not here. My guesses probably are just as valid. 

[mjp28]

6 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

That may be OK in a lot of areas.   But not here. My guesses probably are just as valid. 

Like what? Guess my weight at a carnival? 

And yes Gip I'm sure you're a good guesser.

[mjp28]

Wow did this turn around it was BAL 1/3 and CLE 3/1 before the last game.....CLE 3/1 might have been a nice bet.

Tuesday 10/1.  http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures

ODDS TO WIN 2019-20 AFC NORTH (12/29/19)

Team	Odds
Cleveland Browns	6/5
Baltimore Ravens	6/5
Pittsburgh Steelers	17/4
Cincinnati Bengals	100/1

[steelersfan412]

10 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I believe those number mean absofuckinglutely nothing.

Agree with Gip here. If you want, I can whip up a few scripts that crunch some numbers based on some arguably meaningful input and output some seemingly relevant data. But real world, I can almost guarantee that these numbers mean squat.... Why? Because you're trusting an algorithm that you didn't write, code for which you haven't seen the source, and which has not been proven to be any better at predicting the future than pulling names out of a hat.

 

I could have registered the domain footballoutsiders.com for all you know, setup a LAMP stack, and be making money off all the ad's you mistakenly click on while you're there. I Didn't, but my point is, I believe those numbers mean absofuckinglutely nothing as well.

[mjp28]

This is a sports chat and opinion board and everyone is entitled to their own opinions about things.

It would be a boring azz world if we all thought alike.  

[Tour2ma]

20 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Team	W-L	DAVE	Mean Wins	#1	#2	#3	#4	#5	#6	DIV	BYE	WC	TOT	CHANGE
BAL	2-2	10.8%	8.9	2.2%	6.5%	15.5%	15.0%	6.5%	7.4%	39.2%	8.7%	13.9%	53.1%	-24.5%
CLE	2-2	2.9%	8.8	2.1%	6.6%	15.0%	19.7%	5.3%	7.3%	43.4%	8.7%	12.7%	56.1%	21.9%
PIT	1-3	-3.4%	7.3	0.2%	2.0%	6.1%	8.4%	3.6%	5.8%	16.6%	2.1%	9.3%	25.9%	15.3%
CIN	0-4	-28.9%	4.1	0.0%	0.0%	0.2%	0.6%	0.1%	0.4%	0.8%	0.0%	0.5%	1.2%	-3.3%

Dammit, mpj.... WE ARE the 1st place team... parley vous tiebreaker?

19 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Like what? Guess my weight at a carnival? 

And yes Gip I'm sure you're a good guesser.

Nah... overtime Gip guesses every possible outcome to assure he's always right... and individually they are all couched in provisos. There are abundant examples from here to Trubisky and back.

And you will never see Gip compete in any objective contests... from Dutch's Questions to Yahoo Pick'em to Z's TWitAFCN to you name it... cause that'd puncture his lil ego balloon in public.

[mjp28]

Oh brother you've got that right.  Some people are so afraid of failing that they will never try anything.   

[hoorta]

46 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Dammit, mpj.... WE ARE the 1st place team... parley vous tiebreaker?

Nah... overtime Ghoolie  guessed every possible outcome to assure he's always right... and individually they are all couched in provisos. There are abundant examples from here to Trubisky and back.

And you will never see Gip compete in any objective contests... from Dutch's Questions to Yahoo Pick'em to Z's TWitAFCN to you name it... cause that'd puncture his lil ego balloon in public.

FIFY, but you're mostly right about Gipper too.... 

PS- I was also on the Trubisky Train, but it's looking more and more like the Bears gave up way to much to get him- and he should have been drafted lower. Saved the Browns from making a big mistake? Very possibly.  

Now about that Ghoolie feller and his love of Paxton Lynch and hate for Joe Thomas. I'd feel a lot better about our playoff SB chances if Joe was still playing. A 80% Joe would still be better than anything we currently have. 

[mjp28]

Yeah those two were a lot alike I particularly liked the "Tom Brady is washed up" every year......but he kept winning NFL MVPs and Superbowls.  

Oh well, keeps it interesting around here..... not counting all of the assinine comment of course.

[TexasAg1969]

20 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Yeah those two were a lot alike I particularly liked the "Tom Brady is washed up" every year......but he kept winning NFL MVPs and Superbowls.  

Oh well, keeps it interesting around here..... not counting all of the assinine comment of course.

Starts with a "G", has two syllables.........................................hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.🧐😜

[mjp28]

32 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Starts with a "G", has two syllables.........................................hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.🧐😜

Rhymes with fool?

[Tour2ma]

True... a lot I said applied to Ghoulie as well... but he went beyond... he was true provocateur... posted outrageous stuff just to get a reaction... and attention.

I've always given Gipper credit for his social efforts with his trivia threads, weekly surveys, etc... even when he often turned the latter turned into pissin' contests over opinions... and I still give him credit. I even participated in those threads long after I placed him on "Ignore"... a list he was on and off of a few times. However, since I put him on the list for good, I no longer do. It just seemed hypocritical to participate any longer.

But that's me... I do encourage others to participate in those threads... if you can still "see" them.

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Dammit, mpj.... WE ARE the 1st place team... parley vous tiebreaker?

Nah... overtime Gip guesses every possible outcome to assure he's always right... and individually they are all couched in provisos. There are abundant examples from here to Trubisky and back.

Well...liars lie, and you lie. But yea, I made various predictions about the potential future of a few players...but I don't know anything about provisos.  Sometimes I am right and sometimes I am wrong.  Yes, I said Trubisky had the talent to become a Top Ten draft pick....and where was he drafted?  I also said that Rudolph could prove to up there with the likes of the other QBs that were taken in round one that year.  And yes, I now have a proviso on that one:  my proviso is that I hope I am dead wrong now that he was taken by the Steelers.  I am sure that I have been wrong...and right about other players as well.   I mean, beyond that....please tell us what other abundant examples exist that support your bogus claim about these so called provisos....since apparently you are keeping score.

And you will never see Gip compete in any objective contests... from Dutch's Questions to Yahoo Pick'em to Z's TWitAFCN to you name it... cause that'd puncture his lil ego balloon in public.

Except, of course, you are a lying gutless punk again.  I have participated in Dutch's questions every year, including this year.  And I did participate in Pickem one time...and I won going away....so I retired undefeated.  But actually, doing pickem just bores me, so I don't do it.  Why should I do something that bores me?  I have on rare occasion made picks on Z's thread...but as I said, it bores me.  And who besides you and Z makes picks on there regularly?  So...is every other patron/regular on this board who does not make picks also included in your criticism?  I have said I would like to perhaps participate in Survivor, but have not done so because I would likely miss weeks...and a missed week is as strike against in that game, if I am correct.    No, I suspect one of the reasons that you apparently miss a lot of what goes on is because you have shown your gutlessness by putting me on ignore.   But I don't put you on ignore.  Occasionally, you make interesting points or provide interesting information.  Much of the rest of the time your posts are a great cure for insomnia.

Edit:  by the way, I copied  my post on Dutch's thread...since you seem so concerned about it.  Maybe you would have seen it had you not had your head where the sun don't shine:

1. Browns record?   10-6

2. Bengals record?  6-10

3. Ravens record? 8-8

4. Steelers record? 9-7 

5. How many points do the Browns score? How many points do they allow?   444 vs.  222

6. How many yards, touchdowns and interceptions does Baker Mayfield throw for? 4444, 44,  14

7. Who leads the Browns in receptions? How many receptions does he have?  OBJ   88

8. Who leads the Browns in reception yards? How many yards does he have?  OBJ 1188

9. Who leads the Browns in reception touchdowns? How many touchdowns does he have?  OBJ  18

10. How many rushing yards and rushing touchdowns does Nick Chubb have? 1444,  18

11. How many rushing yards and rushing touchdowns does Kareem Hunt have? 444,  4

12. How many sacks does Myles Garrett have? 22

13. Browns record vs AFC North? 4-2

14. What two teams play in the Super Bowl? Who wins? 

Predictions already made...see this, which is mostly a whole different set of predictions:

 

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

FIFY, but you're mostly right about Gipper too.... 

About what?  Putting "provisos" on things?  Again, I have no clue what that is supposed to mean or what you are all talking about. You and I have had disagreements...differences of opinions...on some things.  I mean is "your opinion differs from mine"  your  definition of a "proviso"?   If not...what is, and show me these examples.  I don't recall having any provisos when we were debating the whole  "titles to be claimed" argument. In fact...you were the one with provisos (not counting because its not a title in the Super Bowl era, not counting because it was in Akron or Canton, not Cleveland.     (and since we are on that topic....Santa Clara is as far away from San Francisco as Canton is from Cleveland!!)   Again, WTF is a "proviso".  

PS- I was also on the Trubisky Train, but it's looking more and more like the Bears gave up way to much to get him- and he should have been drafted lower. Saved the Browns from making a big mistake? Very possibly.  

Now about that Ghoolie feller and his love of Paxton Lynch and hate for Joe Thomas. I'd feel a lot better about our playoff SB chances if Joe was still playing. A 80% Joe would still be better than anything we currently have. 

Water over the bridge at this point.

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

True... a lot I said applied to Ghoulie as well... but he went beyond... he was true provocateur... posted outrageous stuff just to get a reaction... and attention.

I've always given Gipper credit for his social efforts with his trivia threads, weekly surveys, etc... even when he often turned the latter turned into pissin' contests over opinions... and I still give him credit. I even participated in those threads long after I placed him on "Ignore"... a list he was on and off of a few times. However, since I put him on the list for good, I no longer do. It just seemed hypocritical to participate any longer.

But that's me... I do encourage others to participate in those threads... if you can still "see" them.

Well....at least you have admitted that you are gutless.  And noting that you are willing to criticize from a position of ignorance when you haven't even seen a post.

And question:  when did this forum, renown for its no holds barred approach, become a Kumbaya campfire circle?  

I didn't get the memo, I don't think.  

So, are the ground rules that we can no longer get into debates over opinions?   Even "pissing contests"?  (and no, I have never posted stuff merely to be a provocateur....I don't think.... with the exception of like "Stupid Steeler Fan"  threads.  OK, I admit to stirring up shit with those).

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

FIFY, but you're mostly right about Gipper too.... 

About what?  Putting "provisos" on things?  Again, I have no clue what that is supposed to mean or what you are all talking about. You and I have had disagreements...differences of opinions...on some things.  I mean is "your opinion differs from mine"  your  definition of a "proviso"?   If not...what is, and show me these examples.  I don't recall having any provisos when we were debating the whole  "titles to be claimed" argument. In fact...you were the one with provisos (not counting because its not a title in the Super Bowl era, not counting because it was in Akron or Canton, not Cleveland.     (and since we are on that topic....Santa Clara is as far away from San Francisco as Canton is from Cleveland!!)   Again, WTF is a "proviso".  

PS- I was also on the Trubisky Train, but it's looking more and more like the Bears gave up way to much to get him- and he should have been drafted lower. Saved the Browns from making a big mistake? Very possibly.  

Now about that Ghoolie feller and his love of Paxton Lynch and hate for Joe Thomas. I'd feel a lot better about our playoff SB chances if Joe was still playing. A 80% Joe would still be better than anything we currently have. 

Water over the bridge at this point.

1) Don't take stuff so personal

2) Some things it's OK to go to great lengths to "prove" you're right. Most of the time it's downright annoying, and no one besides you cares. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

1) Don't take stuff so personal

I don't know that I am taking it personal.  In this case I was just trying to figure out what tiny Tim meant by saying I put "provisos" on things. I was just asking for clarification....because I am admittedly clueless there.

2) Some things it's OK to go to great lengths to "prove" you're right. Most of the time it's downright annoying, and no one besides you cares. 

I don't go to many lengths to prove any facts.  Most of those are easily attainable, and irrefutable.  I just have to cut and paste, or link them.  Now, on matters of opinion...I likely do go to some lengths to support my contentions.  I mean, I have been to law school. That is what we are trained to do.   We are also trained to point out and exploit inconsistencies in an opponents arguments.  

Let's again take the friendly debate over the "regional title count".  Your contention (I believe...correct me if I am wrong) is that the Akron and Canton titles should not be included with those won by teams in Cleveland. But yet, the inconsistency in your argument would be that  you would, perhaps, include a 49er title won in Santa Clara as a San Francisco title. Or those won in New Jersey in with New York City. Etc. Regional teams....Tennesse/Minnesota/New England etc.    So, I don't know...maybe pointing out inconsistencies in a counterargument is annoying. So be it.    And one can always cop out of an argument by saying I don't care. (but, in my profession...that attitude would not have gone over well with the client...nor with the court). Nevertheless, I can try that in the future.  See how it goes.

 

[Tour2ma]

Since I can see quotes... even of the Ignored...

Gip,

While provisos creep into many of your "opinions" as well... "Fair to say?"... they are always a part of your assessments and predictions, e.g. "I like so and so. He could end up being the best QB in the draft." That's an example we see every year... and it's a feature of every player "evaluation" you make. It's your substitute for knowledge of how the game is played and putting in the time to actually have a basis for your "assessment".