1 theory on why Baker is struggling

[TexasAg1969]

6 hours ago, Canton Mike said:

IMHO, Pharaoh should be where most other Pharaohs are......buried in a desert MANY miles from Cleveland.

Mike

Speakin' of deserts, y'all hear 'bout the Ag who joined  the French Foreign Legion? He joined up to see the world, but got posted to some shithole country where the ole Sgt Maj picked him up and rode him on their old camel Sara back to the outpost some 50 miles into the desert. 'Bout a week went by and our dear Ag friend finally asked the ole Sgt Maj what troops did for sex that far out. The ole Sgt Maj points over to the corral and tells him they always used Sara. The Ag thinks to himself that'll never happen but 'bout a week more goes by when the ole Sgt Maj is making his nightly rounds when low and behold he spots in his flashlight beam our pour Ag on a step stool up behind ole Sara. "What the hell are you doin'?" he asks. "Well you told me everybody uses Sara Sgt Maj." "Well sure we do you idiot, to ride the 50 miles back to the whorehouse in town!"🐫🤠

[Tour2ma]

10 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

You really can't say a loss doesn't destroy our chances

A loss today absolutely does not "destroy" our playoff chances. Nor would 3 added losses to SF, SEA and NE.

What 4 more losses would do is make the only plausible route into the playoffs via a Wildcard slot and that means we will likely need the help of others. In other words... we would no longer control our own destiny.

However, if we were to win out then we finish 10-6... and a look at the schedule says that is plausible.

• While Denver in Denver won't be a cakewalk, it is winnable.
• BUF, PTG and MIA in CLE.... all winnable.
• PTG in PTG? Heinz is a tough place for anyone, let alone us, to beat the Steelers. Circle this date... it's pivotal... and it concerns me the most.
• The final, 4-week run is CIN, @ AZ, BLT and @ CIN.

Three of the final four look like locks. After today we'll know more about how to feel about the BLT rematch.

[Westside Steve]

On 9/29/2019 at 7:30 AM, Tour2ma said:

A loss today absolutely does not "destroy" our playoff chances. Nor would 3 added losses to SF, SEA and NE.

What 4 more losses would do is make the only plausible route into the playoffs via a Wildcard slot and that means we will likely need the help of others. In other words... we would no longer control our own destiny.

However, if we were to win out then we finish 10-6... and a look at the schedule says that is plausible.

• While Denver in Denver won't be a cakewalk, it is winnable.
• BUF, PTG and MIA in CLE.... all winnable.
• PTG in PTG? Heinz is a tough place for anyone, let alone us, to beat the Steelers. Circle this date... it's pivotal... and it concerns me the most.
• The final, 4-week run is CIN, @ AZ, BLT and @ CIN.

Three of the final four look like locks. After today we'll know more about how to feel about the BLT rematch.

And in a general sense Cincinnati regardless of how bad or good both of our teams are often turns out to be a tough match.

WSS

[Kvoethe]

Sophomore slump...happens to everyone...move it along...nothing to see here.

Its very simple why he struggles...that stupid shotgun crap.

[choco]

This thread isn't aging well. Pharoah brown played a great game

[Tour2ma]

8 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

And in a general sense Cincinnati regardless of how bad or good both of our teams are often turns out to be a tough match.

Certainly has been the case when they were "up" and we not so much...

Been too long for me to remember the reverse.

[jiggins7919]

5 hours ago, choco said:

This thread isn't aging well. Pharoah brown played a great game

He damn sure did.  It's not often easy for a good blocker to stand out, but let me tell you, if there was an important run, you could almost always find Brown laying the wood on someone.  I want to say it was our garbage TD with Hilliard that he planted someone and then flexed....loved it.  

In terms of us playing Cincy, I really wish we played them NOW, LOL.  They look bad, and what's better, their OL looks REALLY bad.  Unfortunately for us we have to travel all of the way across the country for a late Monday night game, but hey, you gotta play who is on the schedule, and I see no reason we can't give the 49's hell.  I could see a situation where we get down early and have to stage a late 4th quarter comeback...but we can definitely win.

This could also be a game where our vertical passing game comes alive.  You guys notice that we really haven't gone deep that much this year?  I think we've shortened some of our routes due to concerns surrounding pass blocking, and I know for a fact we ran a bunch of deep routes against the Titans.  Sadly, Baker didn't have time to pull the trigger which really stunk because OBJ was running completely free no less than 3 or 4 times.  Extremely frustrating, especially when the game was so close.  The Baltimore game taught us an important lesson about how much attention OBJ receives, and while you still have to make an effort to get your best horse in the race, Baker showed tremendous maturity in finding other targets and not locking in on such a tantalizing talent.

What we're missing is Breshad Perriman, and I think we're feeling his absence a bit more than expected.  Obviously being without Calloway doesn't help, but it's no secret that our vertical passing game has been all but dead.  Other than the OBJ double-reverse bomb (I'm still mad he didn't run it, and I'm more mad Ratley couldn't put his hands on it better, LOLOL), we haven't gone deep.  No max-protect rollout plays, no flea-flickers (thank God, lol), and no straight up shots down the field.  OBJ is certainly capable of taking the top off the defense, but that's awful tough to do when he's got the entire secondary's attention.  I really expect to see Calloway given at least two chances down the field, and I also expect Seals-Jones to get a chance or two deep down the seam.  Baker throws an extremely accurate deep ball, and it's time to unleash it this week (as long as they have a safety valve in case of pressure).

 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Certainly has been the case when they were "up" and we not so much...

Been too long for me to remember the reverse.

2007

Fucking hell.

[jiggins7919]

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10/the-mysterious-case-of-why-cleveland-has-not-been-able-to-throw-odell-beckham-jr-the-ball-film-review.html

Here’s the article I’ve been waiting for, and I’m going to warn you now, it’s NOT going to make you very happy.  I was going to make a new threat entitled, “WTF is Wrong with the Browns’ Offense”, but there’s no real point in that.  As I’ve been saying all season, and basically we ALL have, Baker does NOT look to throw the ball to OBJ, and he ESPECIALLY doesn’t look to him in the red zone.  I don’t have the reference to link, but I heard on Browns Daily that OBJ has the fewest red zone targets on the team.  Just try and process that for a moment.  Calloway played in ONE game and has more red zone targets than OBJ.  Try and think of one time where Baker threw the ball to OBJ in the end zone…I can possibly think of one, but it was thrown way out of bounds.

It almost seems like Baker is going above and beyond to NOT target OBJ, and that’s what I don’t understand.  This is especially troublesome because this tells us that Baker isn’t able to recognize pre-snap coverages.  If Baker WAS able to recognize this, he’d throw the effing ball to OBJ more because OBJ matched up 1 on 1 is a mismatch with just about anybody.  This isn’t to say that Baker hasn’t had a couple moments.  The 90 yarder against the Jets is one example, although any idiot could have made that read and throw.  

Against the 49’s, I almost lost my collective CRAP in the Tavern after Baker threw the ball to a covered Demetrius Harris and didn’t even THINK about OBJ.  I was absolutely irate and literally left the Tavern so I wouldn’t make an ass out of myself (again) because we’re now seeing a pattern of Baker ALWAYS going to the TE and predetermining where to go with the ball.  The effing defense is WAITING FOR IT, and all he has to do is use his eyes or give a little shoulders fake before rifling the rock to OBJ.  He was so freaking open that I let out a blood-curdling scream that caused my dog to run into the room looking for someone to kill.  I’m not exaggerating either, you’re going to say “WTF MAN!” when you see the video of Baker throwing the ball into QUADRUPLE EFFING COVERAGE INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT THE BEST WR ON THE TEAM!  Whew, sorry about that…I feel better.  This is the FOURTH TIME that I’ve counted Baker missing OBJ open in the end zone only to fire the ball to the covered TE.  It should be noted that one of those times came at the end of the Rams game where he could’ve tied it up, but alas, he didn’t even LOOK AT OBJ.

So, that’s a GIANT ISSUE, but you know what’s the even bigger issue?  I’m glad you asked, and it’s not something you’ll see in any article, and it’s going to make you vomit (not really, lol).  The real issue is that Baker Mayfield cannot and WILL NOT throw to his LEFT, and where is OBJ often lined up?  TO THE LEFT.  Last game Baker didn’t attempt ONE throw to the left, according to the breakdown by Browns Daily.  I forget the exact numbers, but Baker has thrown something like 5% of his passes to the left side of the field, and he doesn’t trust himself to drive the ball left AT ALL.  Go back into your head and think about the passes he makes, and try to think of a pass he made that was to the left side of the field.  Keep in mind I’m not talking about the quick WR screen, those don’t count.  Some of this is due to poor pass protection, but that excuse only has so much merit.    

Then there’s the actual scheming done by Freddie Kitchens.  Can somebody PLEASE TELL ME why Kitchens would allow ANY play, let alone multiple plays, where our TE is one on one on a premier pass rusher?  How many times did Pharoh Brown and Harris get destroyed by Bosa?  Why would you DO THAT?  It literally makes no sense, and a kid playing Madden would know NOT to do it.  

[TexasAg1969]

On pre-snap reads. You also have to get the team up to the LOS with enough time to actually make a pre-snap read. Notice how often Baker is reading his Q-card on his arm when the play comes in on his headphone? Great QBs rarely have to use that Q-card. They know what the play means if it's just given as the play and not as a que to refer to on the card. I think a great deal more practice with the playcaller needs to go into the week so they stop wasting precious seconds that he really needs for pre-rsnap reads.

[Ibleedbrown]

20 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10/the-mysterious-case-of-why-cleveland-has-not-been-able-to-throw-odell-beckham-jr-the-ball-film-review.html

Here’s the article I’ve been waiting for, and I’m going to warn you now, it’s NOT going to make you very happy.  I was going to make a new threat entitled, “WTF is Wrong with the Browns’ Offense”, but there’s no real point in that.  As I’ve been saying all season, and basically we ALL have, Baker does NOT look to throw the ball to OBJ, and he ESPECIALLY doesn’t look to him in the red zone.  I don’t have the reference to link, but I heard on Browns Daily that OBJ has the fewest red zone targets on the team.  Just try and process that for a moment.  Calloway played in ONE game and has more red zone targets than OBJ.  Try and think of one time where Baker threw the ball to OBJ in the end zone…I can possibly think of one, but it was thrown way out of bounds.

It almost seems like Baker is going above and beyond to NOT target OBJ, and that’s what I don’t understand.  This is especially troublesome because this tells us that Baker isn’t able to recognize pre-snap coverages.  If Baker WAS able to recognize this, he’d throw the effing ball to OBJ more because OBJ matched up 1 on 1 is a mismatch with just about anybody.  This isn’t to say that Baker hasn’t had a couple moments.  The 90 yarder against the Jets is one example, although any idiot could have made that read and throw.  

Against the 49’s, I almost lost my collective CRAP in the Tavern after Baker threw the ball to a covered Demetrius Harris and didn’t even THINK about OBJ.  I was absolutely irate and literally left the Tavern so I wouldn’t make an ass out of myself (again) because we’re now seeing a pattern of Baker ALWAYS going to the TE and predetermining where to go with the ball.  The effing defense is WAITING FOR IT, and all he has to do is use his eyes or give a little shoulders fake before rifling the rock to OBJ.  He was so freaking open that I let out a blood-curdling scream that caused my dog to run into the room looking for someone to kill.  I’m not exaggerating either, you’re going to say “WTF MAN!” when you see the video of Baker throwing the ball into QUADRUPLE EFFING COVERAGE INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT THE BEST WR ON THE TEAM!  Whew, sorry about that…I feel better.  This is the FOURTH TIME that I’ve counted Baker missing OBJ open in the end zone only to fire the ball to the covered TE.  It should be noted that one of those times came at the end of the Rams game where he could’ve tied it up, but alas, he didn’t even LOOK AT OBJ.

So, that’s a GIANT ISSUE, but you know what’s the even bigger issue?  I’m glad you asked, and it’s not something you’ll see in any article, and it’s going to make you vomit (not really, lol).  The real issue is that Baker Mayfield cannot and WILL NOT throw to his LEFT, and where is OBJ often lined up?  TO THE LEFT.  Last game Baker didn’t attempt ONE throw to the left, according to the breakdown by Browns Daily.  I forget the exact numbers, but Baker has thrown something like 5% of his passes to the left side of the field, and he doesn’t trust himself to drive the ball left AT ALL.  Go back into your head and think about the passes he makes, and try to think of a pass he made that was to the left side of the field.  Keep in mind I’m not talking about the quick WR screen, those don’t count.  Some of this is due to poor pass protection, but that excuse only has so much merit.    

Then there’s the actual scheming done by Freddie Kitchens.  Can somebody PLEASE TELL ME why Kitchens would allow ANY play, let alone multiple plays, where our TE is one on one on a premier pass rusher?  How many times did Pharoh Brown and Harris get destroyed by Bosa?  Why would you DO THAT?  It literally makes no sense, and a kid playing Madden would know NOT to do it.  

Good observation. Maybe Baker just needs to heed the words of Beyonce. To the left, to the left...

Re: TEs blocking Bosa, l’m not sure they did any worse than Robinson honestly. I did notice the reliance on the TEs for blocking assignments.

[jiggins7919]

1 minute ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Re: TEs blocking Bosa, l’m not sure they did any worse than Robinson honestly. I did notice the reliance on the TEs for blocking assignments.

Robinson had a tough day for sure, but here's the most concerning aspect of the game:  Basically this same 49's team played against the Bengals, and the Bengals have the worst OL in the entire league.  The Bengals were still able to put up some points in garbage time, and Dalton finished with something like 300 yards and a TD or two.  Perhaps we can just chalk it up to a terrible game, but it's unnerving to see the Bengals put up a better fight than us.  I don't like how the team seemed to just quit after the Calloway TD drop-pick.  I fully expect a better effort this week, but we're also playing the best team in the league (or one of them), and a better effort might not equate to a win.  That being said, the Patriots don't look immortal, and if you don't GIVE them two defensive TD's, they can be had (although playing AT New England won't be fun).

Let's see what we're made of.  I'd almost be completely fine with a loss IF we play better, more specifically, if Baker plays better.  I won't lie, I'm starting to get a little nervous about his ability to be our starting QB.  Whether that's him, our OL, our scheme, or a combination of all 3, it doesn't really matter.  What matters is the bottom line, and that needs to improve drastically.  Come on kid, we really need you. 

[mohican]

On 9/28/2019 at 6:05 PM, Flugel said:

Is he worthy of such optimism?  

NE used to play Mike Vrabel as an extra TE in the red zone and short yardage situations when their TE inventory was low.  Is Bill Belichick the only coach on the planet that doesn't think it's rocket science to give someone on his defense a very doable role at TE?   

We don't have anyone with a TE frame on our defense that could fill this role or H-Back/FB?      It isn't like we're overworking Chad Thomas, Genard Avery, or Ricky Ticky Takitaki. Daniel Ekuale has a decent frame with the athleticism of a DE.   We could even put Drew Forbes out there as a 2nd TE and use him primarily as an extra blocker.  I'm sure he could learn a very short route or 2 in the process.  Again, the alternative is Pharaoh Brown...

Bellichek used to do that hear with James Jones lining up as an eligible receiver

[mohican]

Through 5 games, I don't see OBJ being as advertised