A main concern on Ravens' game

[Icecube]

I know some poo poo on how good the Ravens are. Don't be foolish, they are good. They stuck in there with KC in KC and kept it close. 

How many teams can do that? No, they couldn't shut down KC's offense, but who can? No one. 

But here is the biggest concern heading into this game: Browns' DE Garrett is one of their biggest strengths they have. He is a force and nearly unblockable. 

But Jackson can neutralize him. If he is the only defender who gets into the backfield, LJ can get away from him, he is that athletic. So he basically counteracts that advantage. 

Unless some other rushers also get into the backfield simultaneously, LJ will just spin and avoid the sack. Now, if the Browns can also get pressure on the other side or up the middle, Garret does become a big plus for Cleveland. But they have to get more pressure than just MG. 

Also of importance: The Browns need better play calling this game. If they don't have success rushing and passing, Balt.  D is just too tough. Dropping back Baker 50 times will be a disaster. It will lead to sacks and picks. Browns would be well-advised to use screen passes this game to counteract their rush.   

[SdBacker80]

You handle a guy like Jackson differently...I think we are wiser.  I think our scheme this year is better suited to beat him. Gregg Williams D didn’t have that....a Safety sitting 20-25 yards back and 7 man all out blitzes ....that’s not how you do it.

you put pressure on of course but you stay within your rush lane.  It’s a controlled blitz.  If you loop and stunt you can give him a huge hole to take off through.  You keep him in the pocket this way don’t blitz to flush him out.  He’s a better runner with space outside the pocket.  The DEs need to set the edge.  This is game where I kick Garrett inside 30-40% of the time.  I feel better having Vernon in the edge here too rather than Ogbah.

this isn’t a let’s get cute and dial up a weird scheme in our front 7.  This is all about discipline.

someone in the second level needs to spy Jackson.  The games comes down to this guy doing his job and the Dline staying disciplined.

 But Back 4 I mix it all up give him weird looks. He looked awful against the Chiefs.

if Mayfield and kitchen can get their stuff together we win this game

[Tour2ma]

I want us to make Jackson beat us with his arm. So that means:

• Job 1 is to stop Ingram, who ran very well (and hard) to hang 103 yd on 16 carries vs. KC.
• Job 2? Stop Gus Edwards who has looked good all season spelling Ingram and added 53 yd on 7 carries.
• 3? Control the clock... the one area where BLT "beat" KC Sunday was TOP. That's a stat we need to win with heavy doses of Chubb... and hopefully Hilliard. Against a front 7 that is a "Who's Who of Who???" we should be able to do this.

Doing the above should set us up to win the turnover battle. It is worth noting that Jackson has yet to turn the ball over this season... no picks... no fumbles. Whereas our QB... well... let's just say that the less he throws into the Raven 2ndary (Humphrey-Jefferson-Thomas-Smith/Carr*), the better.

 

*Note: Carr has been playing in place of the injured Smith.

[hx214]

I think Wilks just showed us what he can do against a good offense (NFC Champs) with a bunch of 3rd string Secondary players. 

He took Billy B’s scheme that worked against the Rams in the super bowl and adapted it well. 

He knows you gotta make Lamar throw the ball, so he will make him throw it. 

I see Lamar getting cute with that spin move in the backfield and Garrett or Obie eating his lunch.  We aren’t the Fins or the Cards Defense. Hell... the Chiefs defense is ranked 14 behind us at 24.... 

Keep him contained, make him throw it, and let the big dogs eat. 

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, hx214 said:

I think Wilks just showed us what he can do against a good offense (NFC Champs) with a bunch of 3rd string Secondary players. 

He took Billy B’s scheme that worked against the Rams in the super bowl and adapted it well. 

He knows you gotta make Lamar throw the ball, so he will make him throw it. 

I see Lamar getting cute with that spin move in the backfield and Garrett or Obie eating his lunch.  We aren’t the Fins or the Cards Defense. Hell... the Chiefs defense is ranked 14 behind us at 24.... 

Keep him contained, make him throw it, and let the big dogs eat. 

Hopefully we get a couple starters back in the defensive backfield. 

[hx214]

1 minute ago, Dutch Oven said:

Hopefully we get a couple starters back in the defensive backfield. 

Ya... I’m really worried about those ham string injuries with Ward and Williams And Randle with his concussion.... all those injuries can be lingering pain in the asses all season long. 

Makes me wonder if Ward was playing with a bad hamstring the first two games

i will say though.... the guys that played the Rams game... were pretty impressive.... outside of those two plays they decided not to cover Cupp and let him run free for two TD’s...

[SdBacker80]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I want us to make Jackson beat us with his arm. So that means:

• Job 1 is to stop Ingram, who ran very well (and hard) to hang 103 yd on 16 carries vs. KC.
• Job 2? Stop Gus Edwards who has looked good all season spelling Ingram and added 53 yd on 7 carries.
• 3? Control the clock... the one area where BLT "beat" KC Sunday was TOP. That's a stat we need to win with heavy doses of Chubb... and hopefully Hilliard. Against a front 7 that is a "Who's Who of Who???" we should be able to do this.

Doing the above should set us up to win the turnover battle. It is worth noting that Jackson has yet to turn the ball over this season... no picks... no fumbles. Whereas our QB... well... let's just say that the less he throws into the Raven 2ndary (Humphrey-Jefferson-Thomas-Smith/Carr*), the better.

 

*Note: Carr has been playing in place of the injured Smith.

I like this except I don’t play time of possession with them.  I would force their hand.  On O- let’s go RPO no huddle get Baker in a rhythm slow their blitz.  Some of you are terrified of our Oline-  help them out here.  Let’s try to get up early by a couple scores and force their hand.  

The Ravens can hurt us when Ingram and Jackson get rolling and can keep us off balance like you said.  Let’s try not to make it reality and go full throttle on offense see if we can jump out early 

[tiamat63]

Ratbirds pass rush has been less than impressive this year.

So.... we got that going for us.    

[Icecube]

3 hours ago, hx214 said:

Ya... I’m really worried about those ham string injuries with Ward and Williams And Randle with his concussion.... all those injuries can be lingering pain in the asses all season long. 

Makes me wonder if Ward was playing with a bad hamstring the first two games

i will say though.... the guys that played the Rams game... were pretty impressive.... outside of those two plays they decided not to cover Cupp and let him run free for two TD’s...

They did play their asses off. What team could hold the Rams O down fairly well missing 4 starting DBs? Come on, you have to consider that.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/22/browns-inactives-week-3-starting-secondary/

[Icecube]

3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Ratbirds pass rush has been less than impressive this year.

So.... we got that going for us.    

But they are stoudt. Physical. 

[tiamat63]

7 hours ago, Icecube said:

But they are stoudt. Physical. 

No disagreement. Harbaughs primary is to control the running game on both sides of the ball.   They have a talented secondary, but unlike New England, haven't shown the creativity to scheme and manufacture pressure with a patchwork pass rush.

That said, the pass rush comments mean little when the Titans show a blueprint of only needing to make Baker "uncomfortable" then sending a delayed 4th man.   Until he learns to slide his feet and reset in the pocket more efficiently, that will be something we're going to see often vs our offense.

[Tour2ma]

9 hours ago, Icecube said:

They did play their asses off. What team could hold the Rams O down fairly well missing 4 starting DBs? Come on, you have to consider that.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/22/browns-inactives-week-3-starting-secondary/

True, but just as DCs learn from tape on a backup//new QB so, too, do OCs on new 2ndary member(s). Effort is great, but it's no substitute (at least not a complete one) for talent.

And it is not as if LAR's WRs did not have successes vs. our game 2ndary... so some things worked. And those are the things we'll see more of this coming Sunday.

 

That said... I have a half-feeling/half-hope we'll see both Greedy and Burnett this Sunday... plus Higgins return... 🤞

[SdBacker80]

The Ravens D is missing two important pieces last year from a communication standpoint Mosley and Weddle.  Mosley is missed from a talent standpoint too and It shows.  Old man Fitzgerald was wide open multiple times and the Chiefs WRs has plenty of room to operate.  Jimmy Smith is out.  This is could be a game to get Baker fixed and pass game fixed.  I don’t necessarily think ball control is the way to go...but them at a deficit early...maybe go to Chubb in 4th and break their will 

[SdBacker80]

2 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

True, but just as DCs learn from tape on a backup//new QB so, too, do OCs on new 2ndary member(s). Effort is great, but it's no substitute (at least not a complete one) for talent.

And it is not as if LAR's WRs did not have successes vs. our game 2ndary... so some things worked. And those are the things we'll see more of this coming Sunday.

They had four drops in the first half and our DBs were bailing all night on the 10-15 route not giving up anything deep.  The Rams didn’t execute well.  We actually played better in the second half (at least I thought) but the Rams O executed much better.   We need our secondary back big time 

[Tour2ma]

5 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

The Ravens D is missing two important pieces last year from a communication standpoint Mosley and Weddle.  Mosley is missed from a talent standpoint too and It shows.  Old man Fitzgerald was wide open multiple times and the Chiefs WRs has plenty of room to operate.  Jimmy Smith is out.  This is could be a game to get Baker fixed and pass game fixed.  I don’t necessarily think ball control is the way to go...but them at a deficit early...maybe go to Chubb in 4th and break their will 

Agree... Mosely left a gap...

But Weddle... I think Thomas' arrival more than balanced the ledger there... with some left over to backfill for Mosely.

[Bob806]

I'm concerned with the amount of penalties the Browns commit. It's one thing to get beat, but the Browns get in their own way constantly. 

Regarding the Ratbirds, it's going to be tough but they can steal the game. I don't think the secondary in Baltimore is s strong suit for them. I'd dink & dunk down the field if I was Freddy.

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Agree... Mosely left a gap...

But Weddle... I think Thomas' arrival more than balanced the ledger there... with some left over to backfill for Mosely.

Thomas and Weddle are two different players.  One is rangier the other is better within 10 yards and arguably a better blitzer as well.  If the D Coordinator isnt game planning to the new players  strengths than it really doesn’t matter if Thomas is slightly better. 

The Arizona game told me a lot about the new look Ravens. 

Don’t forgot about old man Suggs too. He’s gone.

defense  is about scheme and communication and I don’t think the Ravens have it yet. Unfortunately neither does our offense.  Huge game for us.  

[OldBrownsFan]

47 minutes ago, Bob806 said:

I'm concerned with the amount of penalties the Browns commit. It's one thing to get beat, but the Browns get in their own way constantly. 

Regarding the Ratbirds, it's going to be tough but they can steal the game. I don't think the secondary in Baltimore is s strong suit for them. I'd dink & dunk down the field if I was Freddy.

I'm concerned the Browns came away empty at the 5 yard line at the end of the game with the Rams. They had everything in their favor to run the ball for a TD with 4 running plays to get 5 yards. They had enough time with 40 secs and three time outs and Chubb was running well. How could they not score? They found a way by choosing to unnecessarily throw the ball instead of running. They found a way to beat themselves and it seems like this team needs to find ways to win games instead of losing games. This was terrible play calling on the goal line. 

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, SdBacker80 said:

Don’t forgot about old man Suggs too. He’s gone.

True... and he still ain't looking old...

[tiamat63]

2 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Thomas and Weddle are two different players.  One is rangier the other is better within 10 yards and arguably a better blitzer as well.  If the D Coordinator isnt game planning to the new players  strengths than it really doesn’t matter if Thomas is slightly better. 

The Arizona game told me a lot about the new look Ravens. 

Don’t forgot about old man Suggs too. He’s gone.

defense  is about scheme and communication and I don’t think the Ravens have it yet. Unfortunately neither does our offense.  Huge game for us.  

Re: the last bit about communication.  Earl admitted in off season camps how much more complex the BLT defense is compared to SEA.   This is especially a big deal because when you're back on a hash you have the field view.  You can make adjustments, calls and alignment changes as necessary.   But that becomes a hell of a lot harder when the language you communicate the changes in is no longer 2nd nature.    Things are passed around slower, inaccurately or sometimes not at all.

[SdBacker80]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Re: the last bit about communication.  Earl admitted in off season camps how much more complex the BLT defense is compared to SEA.   This is especially a big deal because when you're back on a hash you have the field view.  You can make adjustments, calls and alignment changes as necessary.   But that becomes a hell of a lot harder when the language you communicate the changes in is no longer 2nd nature.    Things are passed around slower, inaccurately or sometimes not at all.

Absolutely - example of what you describe  is the OSU 2018 Defense.

They are one corner down - the other had a concussion last week and a free safety still feeling things out.  Along with a disappointing pass rush.  

Its time to get the offense on track. 

They really need employ tempo and RPO and make this secondary and pass rush think and work harder.   

[Tour2ma]

Earl played a helluva game Sunday vs. KC.

[jiggins7919]

This is exactly the team you DON'T want to play when you desperately need a victory. Don't let the Ravens pass defense stats fool you, much of that is bloated due to the fact they played the Chiefs. People like to say the Ravens aren't good simply because they don't like them, but I can pretty much promise everyone that they're not only good, they're downright scary. 

They're scary because of their offense and their defense is physical as always. Even without Suggs and Mosley, they're still going to pressure a rattled Mayfield and probably cause several turnovers. Even scarier is our propensity to kick FG's and not even come close to getting touchdowns. Here's something else...every Ravens game I've watched has them starting off FAST. That's probably because it takes the defense some time to adjust to them and they score touchdowns quickly. I don't like the thought of our team down early, as that means Baker will press and that's a formula for disaster. 

You want good news? Well, the good news is that of we somehow win, we'll be first in our lousy division. That's pretty incredible considering how poorly we've played on offense. But if we don't figure out how to actually put points on the board, we can forget it. 13 won't work this week, and Baker must find a way to get his moxy back or the young season will turn old with the swiftness. 

[flyingfooldoug]

2 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

This is exactly the team you DON'T want to play when you desperately need a victory. Don't let the Ravens pass defense stats fool you, much of that is bloated due to the fact they played the Chiefs. People like to say the Ravens aren't good simply because they don't like them, but I can pretty much promise everyone that they're not only good, they're downright scary. 

They're scary because of their offense and their defense is physical as always. Even without Suggs and Mosley, they're still going to pressure a rattled Mayfield and probably cause several turnovers. Even scarier is our propensity to kick FG's and not even come close to getting touchdowns. Here's something else...every Ravens game I've watched has them starting off FAST. That's probably because it takes the defense some time to adjust to them and they score touchdowns quickly. I don't like the thought of our team down early, as that means Baker will press and that's a formula for disaster. 

You want good news? Well, the good news is that of we somehow win, we'll be first in our lousy division. That's pretty incredible considering how poorly we've played on offense. But if we don't figure out how to actually put points on the board, we can forget it. 13 won't work this week, and Baker must find a way to get his moxy back or the young season will turn old with the swiftness. 

We did take The defending NFC champs down to the wire. Plus you forgot to mention division foe. That seems to bring out a tough game face. And what the hell, we’re a better road than home team so far.  Do we win? History says almost. We got a fair shot at it

[SdBacker80]

14 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

This is exactly the team you DON'T want to play when you desperately need a victory. Don't let the Ravens pass defense stats fool you, much of that is bloated due to the fact they played the Chiefs. People like to say the Ravens aren't good simply because they don't like them, but I can pretty much promise everyone that they're not only good, they're downright scary. 

They're scary because of their offense and their defense is physical as always. Even without Suggs and Mosley, they're still going to pressure a rattled Mayfield and probably cause several turnovers. Even scarier is our propensity to kick FG's and not even come close to getting touchdowns. Here's something else...every Ravens game I've watched has them starting off FAST. That's probably because it takes the defense some time to adjust to them and they score touchdowns quickly. I don't like the thought of our team down early, as that means Baker will press and that's a formula for disaster. 

You want good news? Well, the good news is that of we somehow win, we'll be first in our lousy division. That's pretty incredible considering how poorly we've played on offense. But if we don't figure out how to actually put points on the board, we can forget it. 13 won't work this week, and Baker must find a way to get his moxy back or the young season will turn old with the swiftness. 

I watched the cards game.  They gave up big chunk pass plays against the Cards if the Cards didn’t self destruct like they did and punch in a TD instead of FG they win.  They kicked three FGs under 25 yards.  You had Rookie QB two WRs over 100 yards one of those WRs wasn’t expected to play this year. Their offense is a work in progress like ours.

the Rats are missing Jimmy Smith.

the pass rush isn’t as vaunted this year and if you listen to the Rat fans they know that it’s missing. 

This is called opportunity 

[tiamat63]

5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

True... and he still ain't looking old...

One of the reasons he has been one of my favorites since his days at UT - he can step in and be effective in any system based off his mind and instinct.

He is the true centerfield heir to Ed Reed and I look forward to seeing him in the HoF one day.

[jiggins7919]

33 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said:

We did take The defending NFC champs down to the wire. Plus you forgot to mention division foe. That seems to bring out a tough game face. And what the hell, we’re a better road than home team so far.  Do we win? History says almost. We got a fair shot at it

I hope you're right! 2-2 atop the division would be something else! 

[jiggins7919]

21 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

I watched the cards game.  They gave up big chunk pass plays against the Cards if the Cards didn’t self destruct like they did and punch in a TD instead of FG they win.  They kicked three FGs under 25 yards.  You had Rookie QB two WRs over 100 yards one of those WRs wasn’t expected to play this year. Their offense is a work in progress like ours.

the Rats are missing Jimmy Smith.

the pass rush isn’t as vaunted this year and if you listen to the Rat fans they know that it’s missing. 

This is called opportunity 

Cardinals settled for FG's, and that's exactly what scares me because that's what we do. That being said, if we can figure out some red zone plays that work we can win. That's basically everything in the NFL. The teams that get 7 instead of 3 are the ones that generally win. 

[flyingfooldoug]

5 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I hope you're right! 2-2 atop the division would be something else! 

The rams we could afford. Not so much the division teams. Sure would be nice to see them break out of their slump

[Tour2ma]

13 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Cardinals settled for FG's, and that's exactly what scares me because that's what we do. That being said, if we can figure out some red zone plays that work we can win. That's basically everything in the NFL. The teams that get 7 instead of 3 are the ones that generally win. 

Couple points...

1. No team settles for FGs. It's a simple matter that the field compresses leaving less area to defend.
2. The art of the redzone play can be summed in one word: pick. The team that can subtly pick off a coverage man scores.

Of course, if you prefer you can use the word "rub".