Gunz41 Posted September 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, Orion said: 17 hours ago, PoeticG said: This is the last thing I'm going to say about the penalties and the Robinson "kick"- Penalty's cost us this game. We lost solely because of the penalties. Either self inflicted or gifted by the refs, we can't have them if we want to be who we think we are. Gotta clean it up. - And why the hell is KENNY FUCKING VACCARRO'S helmet anywhere near Greg Robinson's feet as he's falling down after the play is over. Kenny's a bitch, he deserved it. Actually, it's not. I agree that we probably lost because of the penalties. But it's not the fault of the refs. You must not have read the rest of the thread or understood the context of that comment. My whole point was that they didn't lose because of refs, certainly not to take up for Robinson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 Just cause I'm still not over how reffing has been.. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/can-nfl-refs-do-what-analysts-never-could-get-coaches-to-pass-more/ They said as of last night holding is still up 70% from this time last year. I'm wearing my tin foil hat if anyone wants to join, I got a few extra. ...in all seriousness, that game last night was unwatchable. With yellow on the field seemingly every play (holding) and pouring down rain I didn't even make through the 1st quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, jrb12711 said: Just cause I'm still not over how reffing has been.. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/can-nfl-refs-do-what-analysts-never-could-get-coaches-to-pass-more/ They said as of last night holding is still up 70% from this time last year. I'm wearing my tin foil hat if anyone wants to join, I got a few extra. ...in all seriousness, that game last night was unwatchable. With yellow on the field seemingly every play (holding) and pouring down rain I didn't even make through the 1st quarter. I watch MLB as well as football. It’s amazing at the hair close plays that are called right in baseball. Of course having full time well paid officials helps. I guess the NFL can’t or won’t afford good officiating. Training and money works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said: I watch MLB as well as football. It’s amazing at the hair close plays that are called right in baseball. Of course having full time well paid officials helps. I guess the NFL can’t or won’t afford good officiating. Training and money works. For sure, my dude. I'm not being funny or dramatic when I say it's making the game unwatchable. the GOAT agrees with me too: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27655167/brady-turns-tnf-citing-ridiculous-penalties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 11 minutes ago, jrb12711 said: For sure, my dude. I'm not being funny or dramatic when I say it's making the game unwatchable. the GOAT agrees with me too: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27655167/brady-turns-tnf-citing-ridiculous-penalties You’re right. Makes for a very boring game. I watch the Browns but rarely sit through any other games. When reruns are better than a NFL game......writing on the wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 I don't mind holding or any other call... I mind bad calls... ... and non-calls. We saw examples of all three last nite. Holding was made a "point of emphasis" this year. Often those points are made in the preseason and fade as the real season starts... not so much this go 'round. I have to wonder if the turnover in the Ref ranks is a factor. What was it I heard... 5 or 6 longtime Refs retired after last season? So others are promoted from wherever and they may be seeing the play from behind the OL for the first time. Then somewhere on the field is a fresh replacement for the retiree making calls at this level for the first time... And so it goes... NFL grading and continuing education should reduce the calls over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: I don't mind holding or any other call... I mind bad calls... ... and non-calls. We saw examples of all three last nite. And pretty much every game is that way. Gets old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 And as for the plethora of body-weight roughing the passer calls... I think NY needs to look at all sacks related penalties and either confirm or overturn them within 30 seconds. Buzz the ref that that they are looking and to hold play... Buzz once to confirm... Buzz twice to overturn... No trotting to the sideline so the ref can see replays and otherwise listen in... quick review and "Play on." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 26 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: I don't mind holding or any other call... I mind bad calls... ... and non-calls. We saw examples of all three last nite. Holding was made a "point of emphasis" this year. Often those points are made in the preseason and fade as the real season starts... not so much this go 'round. I have to wonder if the turnover in the Ref ranks is a factor. What was it I heard... 5 or 6 longtime Refs retired after last season? So others are promoted from wherever and they may be seeing the play from behind the OL for the first time. Then somewhere on the field is a fresh replacement for the retiree making calls at this level for the first time... And so it goes... NFL grading and continuing education should reduce the calls over time. I think to this point, and what still makes me mad about week one, is that if you're going to "emphasize" that you gotta call it both ways. The Browns were extremely sloppy week one, but the 18-5 flag discrepancy was and still is unacceptable. Myles Garrett literally looked at the ref with his helmet almost off his head the ref just shrugged his shoulders. And obviously based on last night the Titans aren't some "disciplined" team. Point is and continues to be the NFL has a serious referee issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 2 hours ago, jrb12711 said: I think to this point, and what still makes me mad about week one, is that if you're going to "emphasize" that you gotta call it both ways. The Browns were extremely sloppy week one, but the 18-5 flag discrepancy was and still is unacceptable. Myles Garrett literally looked at the ref with his helmet almost off his head the ref just shrugged his shoulders. And obviously based on last night the Titans aren't some "disciplined" team. Point is and continues to be the NFL has a serious referee issue. And to me that led directly to so many hits on Mariotta that I think even commentators were starting to lose count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 7 hours ago, jrb12711 said: ... the 18-5 flag discrepancy... I hear ya, but I thought we earned that margin... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Tour2ma said: And as for the plethora of body-weight roughing the passer calls... I think NY needs to look at all sacks related penalties and either confirm or overturn them within 30 seconds. Buzz the ref that that they are looking and to hold play... Buzz once to confirm... Buzz twice to overturn... No trotting to the sideline so the ref can see replays and otherwise listen in... quick review and "Play on." Agreed. Simple & quick. I also think that suspension decisions should be mandated to be finalized within a specified time period so teams are not delayed in roster decisions by RG's foot dragging. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 Irregulars. Poorly trained and poorly paid. No wonder they suck. The bosses must want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 On 9/9/2019 at 5:54 PM, Gunz41 said: 10. Offensive PI. I'm sorry but it is. He pushes off to gain separation I appreciate you doing this. Well done! I agree with all but 1 of your points. There's no getting around it - the lack of discipline was discouraging. The 1 disagree with was the offensive pass interference. That defensive back had his hands all over OBJ for most of the route to the extent it was altering the route enough to warrant the push-off. What do the rules say about where a DB can jam/press a WR? 1st 5 yards right? Rule was broken and the wrong guy got flagged. I saw the replay 3 times. Again, the officials blew off that rule to flag the victim of them of it all. If the crew is going to be flag happy - they need to be that way to both teams. For example, how many times did did the OT across from Garrett get away with hands to the face? They were very consistent at not seeing that. That said, Robinson had a very similar block to that of Jake Matthews that made the highlight reels on Julio Jones' game winning TD reception. Robinson got flagged while Matthews did not. Both were outside the 3 by 5 free blocking zone which meant the blocker couldn't hit the defender from behind. And neither guy did so. Mathews was painted as a hero while the Cleveland Brown got flagged. And here's another tidbit on this game of angles for teams that like to get their linemen out on the perimeter. If a defender turns his back at the last second while on offensive lineman is attempting to engage him, it's not a clip or block in the back. In other words, the defender sees the lineman is going to block him and then turns his back at the last second - he's not being dangerously blindsided any more. The spirit of the rule was completely disregarded on the Robinson penalty which certainly invited people to question the proportion of flags in terms of were the officials looking to flag 1 team more than the other. I don't know if anyone else saw this but before the game Vrable was showing a couple officials something that looked like it had to do with blocking techniques. Keep in mind he played for BB in a program that always emphasized what the officiating crew likes to call and what they sweep under the rug. It looked like he was telling them to keep an eye on something in the trenches. And 1 team was penalized more than the other. On the other hand, the last officiating crew that watched TN (Thursday Night) didn't seem nearly as reluctant to flag them. IMO, the over-officiating around the league is ruining the entertainment factor. Apparently, Tom Brady tried to watch the game and the officiating crew made that a complete waste of time according to the commentators summarizing his Twitter comments. Going back to the NFC Championship in Roger Goodell's Kingdom, 1 of the TWO playoffs teams from the LA Market Roger so desperately wanted and needed - got rewarded by an officiating crew that had not 1, not 2, but 3 officials that resided in.... LA. Who knew? Roger. No matter how many NFL teams good or bad they want to put in Roger's favorite TV market - USC has always been the favorite PRO Football team out there. This whole we're going to let teams challenge pass interference calls moving is nothing but a farce to distract people from the epic disaster of the Officials determining the outcome instead of the players. And in the process, Roger is very excited to see that 90% of the pass interference penalties challenged have favored the officials judgement. That's fine but has this changed what happened in a Conference Championship Game? That brings me to this year, how many times has an official blown a play dead that shouldn't have been? Didn't Cam Jordan return a fumble for a TD that the officiating crew was able to early whistle dead in favor of? LA. Folks, if we want a break or 2 from an officiating crew - were playing Roger Goodell's favorite TV market this Sunday so don't count on it. Markets like Cleveland tend to get the plastic apology from the league about how sorry they are for mistakes that impacted the game... We got one of those against another West Coast market last year when we looked like we returned a fumble from David Carr for a TD that would have ended a close game after they reversed a game clinching 1st down on the official's spot that is not supposed to be challenged. We also had a fumble return for a TD vrs Baltimore that got quick whistled dead. If anyone is wondering why Jimmy Haslam doesn't ever speak up - it would have to be against the hand feeding him via the shared revenue from the TV contracts (largely from the Direct TV/ATT monopoly) was driven by Roger Goodfella. So, Jimmy is going to remain church mouse quiet on it all... With fantasy football participation growing all around us and countries like England, Canada and even Mexico showing interest in hosting games - TV markets can only expand and increase in Roger Goodell's kingdom. This definitely isn't the NFL our parents got us interested in once upon a time. All this bs about caring for the safety of players in a game promoting bigger faster, stronger with rule changes over the years promoting passing games putting people in space for more violent collisions - now Roger Goodell wants 2 more regular season games of wear and tear. There's less concussions in rugby because a lot of their contact is in scrums where collisions are initiated from guys that aren't very far apart. And get this - no head gear leads to guys not initiating contact with their helmets. Makes sense while the NFL makes billions. Sometimes I wonder if the guys that played in leather helmets didn't have as many concussions because it forced guys to tackle more with their shoulder pads than leading with their helmets. They also didn't have rules that impacted the game in the direction of leaning on the pass (putting people in space). Anyway, I love the game and the Cleveland Browns are a big part of my family tradition so I'm just venting about the direction Roger is taking this league. One of the biggest things I love about the game at all levels is the sense of community football can create at all levels. When I see a good sports town like St Louis get another NFL team ripped right out of their area to reward a TV market out in LA that hasn't sold out past season Dodgers game and LA Rams games in the past - it's the same black eye we all saw in the NFC Championship Game orchestrated by Roger Goodell. 3 Officials from LA on a crew that became the only 3 people in world watching that didn't see the blatant pass interference penalty. BUT, the LA market got 1 of their 2 playoff teams to the SB. I'll bet Roger is aware of the things I just spoke about which probably explains the same Chargers being the only team Hue could beat - suddenly being good enough for playoffs just 1-2 years later... The revenues have never been higher but the integrity behind it all leave a lot to be desired in this knucklehead's opinion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 I find it interesting that the same people on this board who excuse poor play by Browns players as the byproduct of little playing time in preseason also think there's some anti-Browns conspiracy by the refs who call penalties on these supposedly rusty players "who treat September like their preseason". 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 On 9/9/2019 at 5:13 PM, SdBacker80 said: The Henry 75 yard TD they were talking about illegal man down field possibly. I didn’t really focus on that but it was apparently close. Clearly in your photo the ball has already been thrown. ARTICLE 2. AFTER PASS IS THROWN After the ball leaves the passer’s hand, ineligible pass receivers can advance more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, or beyond the position reached by their initial charge, provided that they do not block or contact a defensive player, who is more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, until the ball is touched by a player of either team. Such prior blocking and/or contact is pass interference if it occurs in the vicinity of where the ball is thrown. See 8-3-1-Note above for exception when blocker maintains continuous contact. https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#article-1.-legal-and-illegal-acts On 9/9/2019 at 6:11 PM, SdBacker80 said: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: I find it interesting that the same people on this board who excuse poor play by Browns players as the byproduct of little playing time in preseason also think there's some anti-Browns conspiracy by the refs who call penalties on these supposedly rusty players "who treat September like their preseason". Did you bring this up Nero's Overreaction Monday thread? In fairness, you might have since after I was in it. It felt like I had 2 collapsed lungs watching that effort from a team I had hoped was eager to prove they a contender. I didn't like that getting the Overreaction Monday cologne over the stench it left us with and I posted that. Here's the cut and paste: On kickoffs, more and more teams are putting air under the football and kicking it shy of the goal line so the opponent doesn't start at the 25. When we did this, we stopped TN inside their 20 and TN even had some penalties in their return game which further played in our favor. Also, the Scottish Hammer did a job of flipping field position and causing them to start inside their 20 a few times (once at their own 6 yard line). All that said, losing 43-13 at home deserves some reaction and concern IMO. When adversity appeared our team disappeared. In this sport, teams are defined by what they do when adversity strikes. As a fan, I've always wanted our problems to be just 1 guy because you can correct that. This team was SOFT yesterday. They were NOT prepared at all despite hearing they had been preparing for TN the last few weeks. Really? They didn't play the Volunteers. They played the Titans for at least a few minutes... The offense looked like a lost episode of HeeHaw while the defense was a huge disappointment. 18 penalties isn't going to beat anybody but us. I'd be concerned if they didn't react. There's a lot to clean up - but there is enough talent here to make it possible. We'll see how they respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: I find it interesting that the same people on this board who excuse poor play by Browns players as the byproduct of little playing time in preseason also think there's some anti-Browns conspiracy by the refs who call penalties on these supposedly rusty players "who treat September like their preseason". Well said Dutch. I'm more concerned about their trend league-wide to call more penalties. Forget the Titans game for a second. Some of these games are getting hard to watch like the last game the Titans played on Thursday Night. It was a flag fest and Aikman wasn't shy about stating his displeasure about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 Flags/Penalties I expect to see a lot of offensive holding calls on us against the Rams. - just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 12 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Clearly in your photo the ball has already been thrown. ARTICLE 2. AFTER PASS IS THROWN After the ball leaves the passer’s hand, ineligible pass receivers can advance more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, or beyond the position reached by their initial charge, provided that they do not block or contact a defensive player, who is more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, until the ball is touched by a player of either team. Such prior blocking and/or contact is pass interference if it occurs in the vicinity of where the ball is thrown. See 8-3-1-Note above for exception when blocker maintains continuous contact. https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2019-nfl-rulebook/#article-1.-legal-and-illegal-acts Yeah I brought it up because Romo or the other analyst mentioned it as a reason that the refs would have been reviewing the TD. They didn’t miss that call. A flag should not have been thrown on that I thought maybe they were going to drop a flag way after the fact (wishful thinking) on the blatant push/block in the back Right in front of the pass catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 On 9/20/2019 at 8:30 AM, jrb12711 said: I'm not being funny or dramatic when I say it's making the game unwatchable. the GOAT agrees with me too: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27655167/brady-turns-tnf-citing-ridiculous-penalties good to see the real game pace of football again..from TNF, flag counts are down today. Qb's taking some hits with refs keeping flags in their pockets.. Holds have been the legit holds.. Not baa-baa for a 🐐.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/video-marlon-humphrey-chokes-odell-beckham-jr-browns-ravens-01dnz7ab2ds0 If only there was a referee standing right over the players to eject a dude for literally choking a player on the field..man, too bad. Anything less than some game suspensions is unacceptable, for both the player and the ref. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, jrb12711 said: https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/video-marlon-humphrey-chokes-odell-beckham-jr-browns-ravens-01dnz7ab2ds0 If only there was a referee standing right over the players to eject a dude for literally choking a player on the field..man, too bad. Anything less than some game suspensions is unacceptable, for both the player and the ref. Ya I saw that. Will he be their next knife murderer? Refs were told to call less penalties. That sure didn’t make them better tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 It's just a normal Bama-LSU thing. Move along. Nothing to see.🧐😂🙈 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjh2130 Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, jrb12711 said: https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/video-marlon-humphrey-chokes-odell-beckham-jr-browns-ravens-01dnz7ab2ds0 If only there was a referee standing right over the players to eject a dude for literally choking a player on the field..man, too bad. Anything less than some game suspensions is unacceptable, for both the player and the ref. Obj threw a punch also and didn't get ejected. If they go back and suspend Humphrey for the choking then expect obj to get suspended for throwing a little 1-2 combo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavo Joe Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 36 minutes ago, bjh2130 said: Obj threw a punch also and didn't get ejected. If they go back and suspend Humphrey for the choking then expect obj to get suspended for throwing a little 1-2 combo Punches are thrown quite often in games. Can't say I see the two hands to the throat takedown very often though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Pavo Joe said: Punches are thrown quite often in games. Can't say I see the two hands to the throat takedown very often though. Have not seen a choke hold in football since Reynolds choked Sorgi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Have seen a choke hold in football since Reynolds choked Sorgi... We may have been in the playoffs in 07 if it was applied a little tighter. Lol. To Humphrey’s credit he apologized yesterday, I think he even realized he was way over the line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted September 30, 2019 Report Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, bjh2130 said: Obj threw a punch also and didn't get ejected. If they go back and suspend Humphrey for the choking then expect obj to get suspended for throwing a little 1-2 combo I don't disagree, but the below poster is exactly right. There's probably 3-4 cases of a dude throwing a blow like OBJ did on any given football Sunday. He was wrong to do it, and is very likely to get fined. Here's the direct replay: https://sports.yahoo.com/drama-in-browns-ravens-leads-to-obj-getting-chokeslammed-by-marlon-humphrey-200322604.html. OBJ was clearly getting held by the way, but that action "punch" isn't something that makes you recoil. Humphry on the other hand committed what would be a felony and even attempted murder in some cases, and that's not being dramatic. It just ain't the same. If Burfict just got a full year suspension for a helmet to helmet hit, there's no way this shouldn't get at least one game. It's absolutely unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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