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Gunz41

Flags/Penalties

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Just watched the Henry 75 yard TD. Unless you guys had a better video than I did, there is no penalty on that play. 

The Landry play on the sideline was on him. 

I just found a video of all the penalties:

1. Not a blindside block 

2. Is absolutely the right call for Roughing the passer 

3. Double team, there is a double team, cant argue that 1

4. Unnecessary roughness on Garrett. Absolutely 

5. Defensive hold. He was a little early, that one could go either way. Wasn't egregious 

6. Roughing the passer on Richardson was the right call. They are protecting the QB more and more and it was not needed. 

7. Offsides- yeah

8. The kick. It was absolutely a kick and he should be suspended 

9. False start. I can't say I see it. Looks like maybe his hand moves

10. Offensive PI. I'm sorry but it is. He pushes off to gain separation 

11. Holding. It was but not one of the worst holds I have seen. But he does hold him at the POA

12. Illegal use of hands and hold on PR. Video really didn't show it

13. False start. No way to dispute it

14. Hold on Harris. Clear hold

15. 2nd hold on Harris, probably but not nearly as bad

16. Hold on Ward. It wasn't in the video and no replay. It appears that Myles was held on the play

17. Hold on Hubbard absolutely 

 

I/or the video must have missed one. And this doesn't take into account ones that were missed on the Titans. But since I couldn't see the game I figured I would try to find a video since people were making it out to be so bad.

2 that I didn't think were flags, a couple that were penalties but could have been no calls, and a couple couldn't see in video.

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10 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

Just watched the Henry 75 yard TD. Unless you guys had a better video than I did, there is no penalty on that play. 

The Landry play on the sideline was on him. 

I just found a video of all the penalties:

1. Not a blindside block 

2. Is absolutely the right call for Roughing the passer 

3. Double team, there is a double team, cant argue that 1

4. Unnecessary roughness on Garrett. Absolutely 

5. Defensive hold. He was a little early, that one could go either way. Wasn't egregious 

6. Roughing the passer on Richardson was the right call. They are protecting the QB more and more and it was not needed. 

7. Offsides- yeah

8. The kick. It was absolutely a kick and he should be suspended 

9. False start. I can't say I see it. Looks like maybe his hand moves

10. Offensive PI. I'm sorry but it is. He pushes off to gain separation 

11. Holding. It was but not one of the worst holds I have seen. But he does hold him at the POA

12. Illegal use of hands and hold on PR. Video really didn't show it

13. False start. No way to dispute it

14. Hold on Harris. Clear hold

15. 2nd hold on Harris, probably but not nearly as bad

16. Hold on Ward. It wasn't in the video and no replay. It appears that Myles was held on the play

17. Hold on Hubbard absolutely 

 

I/or the video must have missed one. And this doesn't take into account ones that were missed on the Titans. But since I couldn't see the game I figured I would try to find a video since people were making it out to be so bad.

2 that I didn't think were flags, a couple that were penalties but could have been no calls, and a couple couldn't see in video.

The Henry 75 yard TD they were talking about illegal man down field possibly.  I didn’t really focus on that but it was apparently close. The more egregious error was the hook/hold and then possibly block in the back right in front of Henry after he caught the ball. That gets called most of the Time.  The lineman head may have snuck in front but he tagged him in the back shoulder. 

Not taking anything else away - Heck of a play call and it was executed well.  But if we are calling the game tightly as they did I don’t know how you overlook that one.

QB safety and those calls have no problem with those either they were cautious all game even to our detriment when Baker was ruled in the grasp way too early.

the interior holds were either way too picky or you were thinking how did they miss that one and I’m talking both ways.  I watched the giants game right after ours- they let the interior line play go- there were some guys tackling LBs that they didn’t call. 

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20 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

The Henry 75 yard TD they were talking about illegal man down field possibly.  I didn’t really focus on that but it was apparently close. The more egregious error was the hook/hold and then possibly block in the back right in front of Henry after he caught the ball. That gets called most of the Time.  The lineman head may have snuck in front but he tagged him in the back shoulder. 

Not taking anything else away - Heck of a play call and it was executed well.  But if we are calling the game tightly as they did I don’t know how you overlook that one.

QB safety and those calls have no problem with those either they were cautious all game even to our detriment when Baker was ruled in the grasp way too early.

the interior holds were either way too picky or you were thinking how did they miss that one and I’m talking both ways.  I watched the giants game right after ours- they let the interior line play go- there were some guys tackling LBs that they didn’t call. 

It isnt a penalty. He starts in front, the defender turns which is where you see him in his back, he never hooks him, and he isn't tackled like I saw some say, he just drives him into the ground.

 

 

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It wouldn't let me put the url in.

Go to YouTube and type Every Browns Penalty...

And I am sure everyone can find the Henry TD

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OK, so while at work I listened to 92 The Fan and I heard some callers ranting about the penalties (ok, WOW, more penalties than since before I was born....and that was a loooong time ago) and I heard rants about Freddie.  He's a bad coach and he should be fired.

:)

Ya have to laugh...or else you'll go nuts.

We had a defense drive where WE drove the Titans right down the field with penalties.  That was bad, of course.  And then we started going through offensive tackles.  Our LT literally kicked himself out of the game.  And then his replacement promptly got hurt.  We had to move our, not all that good, RT to the left side and we brought in a guy to play who wasn't even on the team a couple of weeks ago.  -  That, of course, was a recipe for MORE penalties (holding onto defensive pass rushers).

Obviously, the game snowballed out of control after that.  Baker tried to do too much, receivers were trying to turn a completion into a big play by running back and forth (this sets them up for fumbles or injury).

After starting off as a pleasant dream it turned into a nightmare.

THE GAME HAS TO BE THROWN INTO THE TRASH BIN

Obviously, you have to go over the game, extract the learning points and talk/teach the corrections.  And that includes the things that the coaches can do differently.  (as I said after the game, I would've liked to see some runs called for some of those 2nd & 3rd and ones that we had)

Freddie didn't do anything to warrant being called a bad HC.  He's a 1st year HC.  He is going to have to learn the nuances of the in-game job of a HC.  He's got some experienced and smart coordinators and assistants.  They will talk, Freddie will grow.  As the season goes along he will grow more.  He's an aggressive play caller.  He likes to pass.  - I like that -  You wanna be successful, be aggressive and be able to pass.  Of course, you HAVE to be able to run the ball to some degree.  And we can.  But we didn't.  - mistake - With our OL turning into such a decimated mess in the 2nd quarter, we should've been telling those guys to 'knock the guy in front of you on his ass'.  Some running would've given the OL a little confidence.  And if the Titans would've bunched up to stop the run, then simply chuck it to one of our receiving weapons.  Run to set up the pass. (which is the opposite of what is usually required in today's NFL...but with two guys out of your OL and new guys playing, it was what was called for) 

This is the ultimate Wake Up call.  Getting lambasted in game 1.

Before we start calling for Freddie's head, let's see how he guides the team through this.

Before wanting him fired, let's what bad game-day decisions he makes.  Use of time outs. Use of the red flags. Go for it or punt.  etc., etc.

Freddie has had ONE regular season game as HC  (I know, I've counted)  :)  I've heard him say that we'll find out what kind of team we are when adversity hits and how we handle it.  Well, adversity time arrived at the right time.  While there's plenty of season left to fix it.  

 

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33 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

It isnt a penalty. He starts in front, the defender turns which is where you see him in his back, he never hooks him, and he isn't tackled like I saw some say, he just drives him into the ground.

 

 

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The illegal man down field is borderline the block was in the back-  his dang hands were on his back 

i say hold because he catches his arm/shoulder area locks on and then finishes the block with his hands on his back driving him to the ground. 

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Refs fucking sucked regardless. And our young dudes got baited by the titans all day. Titans played a better football game. Without the penalties the game is completely different 

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1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

Defensive hold. He was a little early, that one could go either way. Wasn't egregious 

I'll go back through and watch but this one right here was garbage.  If its holding it means he did it before the ball was in the air. Randall was never 5 within 5 yards of him until the ball was in the air. You can't have defensive holding when the ball is in the air. That's called pass interference. Officials don't confuse the two lol. If they had called p.i. it was maybe but his off hand didn't turn his body so unlikely called but they literally just made up the call of defensive holding. 

 

 

Also of note the o p.i. you agree with that defender actually made illegal contact and held more than randall did here.  Him and OBJ were just hand fighting. I was for calling neither but typically they don't call an offensive player for fighting off a guy who is holding them on their route.

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1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

Hold on Harris. Clear hold

This one they actually showed the replay of during the game. It was anything but a clear hold on Harris. It was a hell of a block. The announcers even said "they had to have the wrong number there maybe it was on njoku" or something along those lines. Regardless it wasn't a clear hold on Harris. 

I don't blame the officials at all for the game. the browns got out toughed out played and out coaches. The browns showed no discipline. My last two posts were just to say the refs did make mistakes that didn't effect the outcome of the game, but you just blindly saying they were right doesn't make you look any better than all the guys at my work today who solely blamed the officials. The browns earned 85-90% of those calls. 

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He proved yesterday that he isn’t much of a head coach so far. Prolly the worst HC of the league as far as performance goes. Dolphins are tanking so they don’t count. Flores had a better game 1, even Sean Taylor of Cincy showed more promise game 1 than Kitchens. 

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5 minutes ago, TypicalBrowns50 said:

He proved yesterday that he isn’t much of a head coach so far. Prolly the worst HC of the league as far as performance goes. 

It wasn’t a good job playcalling the play action on the 1 yard line after Hilliard let a 70 yard punt roll to the 3. The whole team sucked not just Kitchens.

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With a different angle it looks different, but from the video his block certainly starts in front. That still shot does look like a penalty though. And now that I have seen the other view, I can match it up with the hook/hold

As for the Harris one... go to YouTube and look up Every Browns penalty and the play that starts at 4:37. He grabs the top of his jersey and holds it when Chubb goes to outside.

And men downfield, they can be a yard downfield, and this pic is AFTER he has caught it. When the ball hits his hands the front two linemen are less than a yard over.

As for the one on Randall, they called a D. Hold. I was merely saying that he was there a little early for PI. There could have been a hold earlier that I didn't see. But he was there before the ball. So you can say they made the wrong call (hold vs PI).

On the OBJ one, I have no issue with saying no flag, but saying how horrible of a call it was, no OBJ pushed off.

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7 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

With a different angle it looks different, but from the video his block certainly starts in front. That still shot does look like a penalty though. And now that I have seen the other view, I can match it up with the hook/hold

As for the Harris one... go to YouTube and look up Every Browns penalty and the play that starts at 4:37. He grabs the top of his jersey and holds it when Chubb goes to outside.

And men downfield, they can be a yard downfield, and this pic is AFTER he has caught it. When the ball hits his hands the front two linemen are less than a yard over.

As for the one on Randall, they called a D. Hold. I was merely saying that he was there a little early for PI. There could have been a hold earlier that I didn't see. But he was there before the ball. So you can say they made the wrong call (hold vs PI).

On the OBJ one, I have no issue with saying no flag, but saying how horrible of a call it was, no OBJ pushed off.

The block never started out front 

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8 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

He grabs the top of his jersey and holds it when Chubb goes to outside.

And men downfield, they can be a yard downfield, and this pic is AFTER he has caught it. When the ball hits his hands the front two linemen are less than a yard over.

On the OBJ one, I have no issue with saying no flag, but saying how horrible of a call it was, no OBJ pushed off.

Correct, he was holding the inner jersey when Romo said he couldn’t see a hold.

I didn’t see much of a push from OBJ, it looked like a clean route break, some hand-fighting and a great sell job from the corner.

Randall was a millisecond early and we’ve all seen that call uncalled hundreds of times 

 

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12 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

With a different angle it looks different, but from the video his block certainly starts in front. That still shot does look like a penalty though. And now that I have seen the other view, I can match it up with the hook/hold

As for the Harris one... go to YouTube and look up Every Browns penalty and the play that starts at 4:37. He grabs the top of his jersey and holds it when Chubb goes to outside.

And men downfield, they can be a yard downfield, and this pic is AFTER he has caught it. When the ball hits his hands the front two linemen are less than a yard over.

As for the one on Randall, they called a D. Hold. I was merely saying that he was there a little early for PI. There could have been a hold earlier that I didn't see. But he was there before the ball. So you can say they made the wrong call (hold vs PI).

On the OBJ one, I have no issue with saying no flag, but saying how horrible of a call it was, no OBJ pushed off.

I know what Harris play you are talking about. His first "hold" They did a replay during the game with the camera right on him. His hands were inside the shoulder pads the entire time. There wasn't a hold earlier you didn't see as Randall was not within 5 yards of any receiver until the ball was in the air. You can clearly see that in video. His left hand is on the receiver almost simultaneously to his right hand tipping the ball but regardless his hand didn't turn or move the receiver. The browns still beat themselves but I don't blindly agree with all calls.

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3 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Correct, he was holding the inner jersey when Romo said he couldn’t see a hold.

I didn’t see much of a push from OBJ, it looked like a clean route break, some hand-fighting and a great sell job from the corner.

Randall was a millisecond early and we’ve all seen that call uncalled hundreds of times 

 

Hands inside the shoulder pads don't get called for holds ever.  Those are the ones they say you can call a hold on every play. 

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Just now, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Welp they called it 

They sure did but it was textbook blocking.  He had his hands on the breastplate of the shoulderpads.

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I’m talking the team and the discipline, which Is up to kitchens. He’s like Mike Pettine with more personality. He showed yesterday he hasn’t done anything for the culture or mentality of the team. His playcalling regressed big time, doing the opposite of last year, which is just brutal to see in action. Yesterday was brutal man. Idk how else to say it. A coach that knows what he is doing doesn’t let something like that happen yesterday 

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28 minutes ago, SdBacker80 said:

The block never started out front 

Sure looks like it to me. Not front front, but enough for it to not be a block in back.

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30 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Correct, he was holding the inner jersey when Romo said he couldn’t see a hold.

I didn’t see much of a push from OBJ, it looked like a clean route break, some hand-fighting and a great sell job from the corner.

Randall was a millisecond early and we’ve all seen that call uncalled hundreds of times 

 

Not saying I think it should have been called, I think that is a no flag, but he was there a bit early.

As for Harris, I must be looking at someone different then. His left hand APPEARS to be on his outside shoulder pad

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So what do you do when you are an NFL coach and one of your Lineman holds somebody? 

Tell him not to hold the defender? Bench him for holding and put in.... who? The 3rd string DT? 

Or when your LT kicks some one in the face for pushing him in the back over a pile after the whistle was blown? 

Does a good coach tell him “don’t kick people in the face?” 

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7 minutes ago, hx214 said:

So what do you do when you are an NFL coach and one of your Lineman holds somebody? 

Tell him not to hold the defender? Bench him for holding and put in.... who? The 3rd string DT? 

Or when your LT kicks some one in the face for pushing him in the back over a pile after the whistle was blown? 

Does a good coach tell him “don’t kick people in the face?” 

When you look at a single penalty or two you might have a point. In the context of the most penalties in franchise history it’s a systemic issue. Systemic issues like that to me would trace back to coaching. Let’s see if he can adjust and get back on track. 

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3 minutes ago, jcam222 said:

When you look at a single penalty or two you might have a point. In the context of the most penalties in franchise history it’s a systemic issue. Systemic issues like that to me would trace back to coaching. Let’s see if he can adjust and get back on track. 

I gotta think it’s having bad/dumb players on your roster. 

But then again even Myles Garrett picked up a personal foul for jacking someone in the face. Guy was holding both of his hands and raking on them, but all the ref sees is the open hand punch. 

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look in in 0vthink there was allot of pump and emotion from the locker room before hitting the field.

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That ref and his team are straight garbage. I'd petition the League to make sure they never ref another game in Cleveland for the rest of their careers. Certainly smelt like fish, bet that elf looking motherfucker and his goons had a lot of money on the Titans. This is exactly why you cannot allow betting on NFL games. The refs don't get paid much and when they can make six-hundred thousand dollars off of one bet, that's a recipe for disaster. They are underpaid and unappreciated referees not saints. Fuck them zebras. Completely one sided affair and it was obvious. 

Robinson was shoved to the ground AFTER the play was over and reacted by kicking AS HE WAS FALLING DOWN, that's a reactionary action not premeditated, but whatever.

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