***Browns @ Buccaneers Preseason Game Night Thread***

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

4 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

also.....why no beckham at all duribg preseason? i mean just a couple deep routes to see wheres he's at than get him out.....no crossing routes or noyhin...we needed to see his timing with bsker

He got an ankle injury playing against the Browns a few years ago when one of our nickle corners(BBC I think) went real low to make a tackle.

I’m very ok with not letting dudes fighting for a roster spot take their shots on OBJ

[Canton Mike]

7 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

Unfortunately, OL is something we're going to have to deal with all year. The GOOD news is that we had exceptional OL play last year, and we have everyone back except for the stud Zeitler. Furthermore, we have a playcaller who demonstrated the ability of getting the ball out quickly, running it, AND being creative with execution. Oh, we also have a crafty QB that is extremely talented at evading pressure and recognizing pressure, so I think we'll be ok. Did Dorsey royally screw up the RG position? Yep, he did. But...would you rather have Jabril Peppers and Kevin Zeitler, or Olivier Vernon and Odell Beckham? 

I LOVE the fact we didn't look crisp offensively. I want our guys to be humble, ready to work, and fired up for Tennessee. I want some idiot to start blasting off on the radio how Baker doesn't look ready, how he's not really good, and whatever else. I want ALL the negative bullshit because that's what he feeds on. Was Baker on fire last night? Hell no. But he was good enough to throw 2 TD passes that his receivers couldn't haul in. 

Baker had an off night last night, but anybody can have a bad night & he was CONSISTENTLY off the same way the entire time. He kept throwing slightly long/high. to me, that doesn't indicate problems as some may claim, just that he was "off".

I have a feeling our offense will be loaded for bear game 1.

Mike

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

I didn't see a night and day difference at all.  D'Ernest made quick cuts when returning punts and got up field in a hurry.  He had a 15 and 16 yard punt return negated by penalties that didn't help him to get the yards he got,  and had another 16 yard punt return that stood. He got 28 yards on his one kick return. I love the DSG story as much as the next guy but his talent isnt a "find a way to keep him" talent.  Any of the Browns teams of the last 10 years, yeah you keep him on the team as a fan favorite because of his story. There wasn't near the talent on those rosters. As great as the 1-4 are in the wide receiver room all have missed time due to injuries or off the field issues.  I want the 5th and 6th wide receivers to be able to produce on offense not just a specialist.

I'm including the preseason games thus far, not just #3.

[bjh2130]

6 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I'm including the preseason games thus far, not just #3.

DSG had the one great return for a td.  He almost dropped the punt and it's not that he made anyone miss on it either.  It was perfectly blocked for him to run straight up field for 20 yards then veer to the sideline.

D'Ernest Johnson has shown very good patience vision and elusiveness as well as a good quick burst. We should have 3 rbs on the 53 man with hunt out the first 8 weeks that leaves Chubb Johnson and Hilliard.

I realize you may not be advocating for keeping DSG strictly over D'Ernest, but Johnson can do so much more for this team in the offense and can provide just about as big of a spark in the return game also. Kick returns and punt returns have really diminished in importance in the last couple years due to new kickoff rules and punters getting better at hang time and directional kicking.  It just doesn't make sense for a team that should be a playoff contender to use a spot on a feel good story return specialist if he can't contribute elsewhere.  He played 3 snaps in the "dress rehearsal" game. 

Would you believe the past two years we were 3rd both years in average yards per punt return? I know you were around on the board so you are well aware a lot of people hated our special teams performance and coach.  They also hated jabrill peppers and he could actually contribute in another phase of the game (last year at least not giving too much credit woody lol).

Again his story and determination is great but that isn't a reason to find a reason to keep a guy. 

[medicineman]

4 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

DSG had the one great return for a td.  He almost dropped the punt and it's not that he made anyone miss on it either.  It was perfectly blocked for him to run straight up field for 20 yards then veer to the sideline.

D'Ernest Johnson has shown very good patience vision and elusiveness as well as a good quick burst. We should have 3 rbs on the 53 man with hunt out the first 8 weeks that leaves Chubb Johnson and Hilliard.

I realize you may not be advocating for keeping DSG strictly over D'Ernest, but Johnson can do so much more for this team in the offense and can provide just about as big of a spark in the return game also. Kick returns and punt returns have really diminished in importance in the last couple years due to new kickoff rules and punters getting better at hang time and directional kicking.  It just doesn't make sense for a team that should be a playoff contender to use a spot on a feel good story return specialist if he can't contribute elsewhere.  He played 3 snaps in the "dress rehearsal" game. 

Would you believe the past two years we were 3rd both years in average yards per punt return? I know you were around on the board so you are well aware a lot of people hated our special teams performance and coach.  They also hated jabrill peppers and he could actually contribute in another phase of the game (last year at least not giving too much credit woody lol).

Again his story and determination is great but that isn't a reason to find a reason to keep a guy. 

Maybe find a spot for him on the practice team, at least until Callaway is back from his 4 game suspension. Have we even tried to let him run any routes as a wide out? 1 preseason game left why not? But I do trust this Front office. So Whatever they decide 

[Flugel]

On 8/23/2019 at 10:51 PM, jiggins7919 said:

Honestly, this game was close to being really good for our starting offense, and don't forget our starting defense didn't let the Bucs hardly SNAP the ball. Higgins should have made that TD grab, and Willies dropped a couple. Baker was a smidge off, but no big deal. We sorely missed Nick Chubb and our #1 WRs and TEs. No biggie. 

Did I mention our defense? Without Myles? 

Preseason can be a lot of chemistry chaos especially in terms of a passing game without OBJ, Landry, Callaway and Njoku in terms of the overthrowing the less experienced/talented guys just hoping to make the roster.   Like they say during these games that don't count - the biggest thing you root for is no injuries and hope some guys showcase what they're capable of during the exhibition. 

I would have liked to see more from the offensive line in the running game; especially considering Tampa's front 7 was missing starters like 2018 1st rd pick DT Vita Vea, DE JPP (who may be back around the time Hunt returns to us), and LB Lavonte David.  That said, it looked like the game plan was more focused to feature the pass while the 3rd and longs promoted it even further.  I kind of felt bad for Jaelen Strong after hearing he's had such a great camp while his night didn't really reflect it.  He was often pretty well covered and overthrown.  That said, in practice OBJ and Landry are drawing the #1 and #2 Corners while I'm guessing Strong was getting the good camp reviews against #3 caliber Corners.  It'll be interesting to see who stays and who sprays at the WR position at final cuts.

Defensively - zero complaints about our front 7 and it's depth.  BTW, that's what Joe Schobert looks like playing with 2 healthy hamstrings behind a REAL defensive front. Frequently on time and in position to defend the pass and run.  Any complaints.  He's only 26 so let's hold off on racing him out of town before we have to. If I had to bring up 1 concern it's our Strong Safety position.  Murray (#22) didn't impress me considering the heat we got on Tampa passers.  He was often late and completely whiffed on a tackle at the line of scrimmage.  He was also the guy that got toasted over the top in our 1st preseason game and flagged for pass interference penalty.  Let's hope I'm wrong or others found enough to be encouraged about. Morgan Burnett also looks like he's lost a step or 2 at this point.  The good news is our secondary will have a lot of talent at Corner and the other Safety position as well as the heat we should be able to put on passers to ease the challenge at Strong Safety some. We shall see...

 

[jiggins7919]

29 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Preseason can be a lot of chemistry chaos especially in terms of a passing game without OBJ, Landry, Callaway and Njoku in terms of the overthrowing the less experienced/talented guys just hoping to make the roster.   Like they say during these games that don't count - the biggest thing you root for is no injuries and hope some guys showcase what they're capable of during the exhibition. 

I would have liked to see more from the offensive line in the running game; especially considering Tampa's front 7 was missing starters like 2018 1st rd pick DT Vita Vea, DE JPP (who may be back around the time Hunt returns to us), and LB Lavonte David.  That said, it looked like the game plan was more focused to feature the pass while the 3rd and longs promoted it even further.  I kind of felt bad for Jaelen Strong after hearing he's had such a great camp while his night didn't really reflect it.  He was often pretty well covered and overthrown.  That said, in practice OBJ and Landry are drawing the #1 and #2 Corners while I'm guessing Strong was getting the good camp reviews against #3 caliber Corners.  It'll be interesting to see who stays and who sprays at the WR position at final cuts.

Defensively - zero complaints about our front 7 and it's depth.  BTW, that's what Joe Schobert looks like playing with 2 healthy hamstrings behind a REAL defensive front. Frequently on time and in position to defend the pass and run.  Any complaints.  He's only 26 so let's hold off on racing him out of town before we have to. If I had to bring up 1 concern it's our Strong Safety position.  Murray (#22) didn't impress me considering the heat we got on Tampa passers.  He was often late and completely whiffed on a tackle at the line of scrimmage.  He was also the guy that got toasted over the top in our 1st preseason game and flagged for pass interference penalty.  Let's hope I'm wrong or others found enough to be encouraged about. Morgan Burnett also looks like he's lost a step or 2 at this point.  The good news is our secondary will have a lot of talent at Corner and the other Safety position as well as the heat we should be able to put on passers to ease the challenge at Strong Safety some. We shall see...

 

That's a pretty solid analysis. Poor offensive line play is probably the most terrifying thing for a fan because it impacts virtually every aspect of the game, and it also can determine whether or not the freakin QB gets hurt (to some degree). Offensive line not getting push? Well, all those 3rd and shorts turn into passing downs, and there's more that can go wrong in the air. Goal line situations, same thing. Can we punch it in without gimmicks? 

I just don't see us going into the season with our current lineup. What will we do? I'm not sure, but it'll either involve Trent Williams or the cat from Miami. There might even be some other trade for a random guard we aren't thinking of, so basically nothing will surprise me. Do I love our tackles? No, but I'm more concerned with the RG AND the backup center. Tretter is a warrior, but we don't really have a backup center you want to use. 

Bottom line, I don't put much stock in preseason games. They're fun to talk about, but it's REALLY tough to find useful predictors for a season outlook. That said, the offensive line REALLY shouldn't be getting beat like that, and while I realize Suh has given many people problems over the years, both our protection AND running game were turrible. I still think we're going to be "good" this year, but we're not going to really compete for a championship until we get a bit more solidified on the OL AND we get consistent in the kicking game. Those two things can take down any team. (although I was thrilled to see Seibert drill those kicks. Very promising) 

[Flugel]

18 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

That's a pretty solid analysis. Poor offensive line play is probably the most terrifying thing for a fan because it impacts virtually every aspect of the game, and it also can determine whether or not the freakin QB gets hurt (to some degree). Offensive line not getting push? Well, all those 3rd and shorts turn into passing downs, and there's more that can go wrong in the air. Goal line situations, same thing. Can we punch it in without gimmicks? 

I just don't see us going into the season with our current lineup. What will we do? I'm not sure, but it'll either involve Trent Williams or the cat from Miami. There might even be some other trade for a random guard we aren't thinking of, so basically nothing will surprise me. Do I love our tackles? No, but I'm more concerned with the RG AND the backup center. Tretter is a warrior, but we don't really have a backup center you want to use. 

Bottom line, I don't put much stock in preseason games. They're fun to talk about, but it's REALLY tough to find useful predictors for a season outlook. That said, the offensive line REALLY shouldn't be getting beat like that, and while I realize Suh has given many people problems over the years, both our protection AND running game were turrible. I still think we're going to be "good" this year, but we're not going to really compete for a championship until we get a bit more solidified on the OL AND we get consistent in the kicking game. Those two things can take down any team. (although I was thrilled to see Seibert drill those kicks. Very promising) 

Some good points.  This time last year, we didn't have Robinson starting at LT yet and we just started playing Harrison there (who doesn't have an NFL job today). 

I remember bringing up I didn't like us losing TE Fells in the off season for Demetrius Harris and I still don't.  I don't care what PFF says - Fells is a more complete TE.  I bring up Fells because if one of our OTs needed help with a matchup - he sure helped to conceal the issue.  I've heard Fells had a great camp in Carolina and I'm not surprised.  Meanwhile more people are worrying about LT Greg Robinson today than they did the entire time he started for us last year.  Another thing that helped Robinson and our entire line was Baker's quick processing-rapid release. 

Some worry losing PFF's top rated Guard Kevin Zeitler impacts the entire line in terms of being about to run it up inside or pass pro.  That said, I attended our game vrs Tampa last year when we had 3rd and goal at the Tampa 1 yard line.  We ran behind Zeitler 2 consecutive plays and turned the ball over on downs with no points to show for the journey in a game that went into OT. 

I do take stock in preseason because you get to see who can win the 1 on 1 matchups on the line of scrimmage and who cannot.  You can see who can make open field tackles and who cannot.  Who can get open and who can't.  Who can make extra points and who can't.Who can make FGs and who can't.  What guy in a positional battle helps us most on STs.  I think we're looking at all this.  At least I hope we are.

 

[jiggins7919]

7 hours ago, Flugel said:

That said, I attended our game vrs Tampa last year when we had 3rd and goal at the Tampa 1 yard line.  We ran behind Zeitler 2 consecutive plays and turned the ball over on downs with no points to show for the journey in a game that went into OT. 

Ooooooooo...I forgot about that!  Ya know, more and more it's becoming extremely difficult to just "punch it in" in the NFL.  It almost seems like if a team KNOWS you're running it, they can stop you more often than not.  I know our defense was pretty damn good at shutting people down at the goal line, and I don't expect that to change this year.  I saw Kush get beat pretty badly by Suh early in the recent game, and while Suh didn't quite get the sack, he probably should've.  Baker somehow squirted between two defenders and found someone for basically our only 3rd down conversion, but he really should've been toast.  Suh gave Kush a basic swim, and Kush totally whiffed.  

I'm starting to think OL play as a WHOLE is starting to wane in the league.  I watched some of the Steelers-Titans game recently, and Mariota couldn't even snap the dang ball before getting eaten up by multiple people.  Heck, he even got buried for a safety, and Coach Mike Vrabel decided that he saw enough and yanked Mariota because he didn't feel like his team could protect his QB.  To be fair, the Titans' allstar LT Lewhan didn't play (I don't THINK), as he's suspended for 4 games due to some bullcrap supplement he took.  But I guess he could've played...so don't quote me.  All I know is that the Titans snapped the ball and they were awash with Steelers in the backfield.  

If the Titans had difficulty with the Steeler's pass rush, they're not going to like ours in two weeks.  I can PROMISE you that.  What's the best part of our pass rush?  We don't always have to blitz to get pressure!  Wilks prefers bringing 4 rushers the majority of the time, whereas Greg brought the damn house seemingly every 3rd down last year.  One of the most welcome sights for a Browns fan was the pressure brought forth by Olivier Vernon.  It's not a stretch to think that Vernon could challenge Myles for the sack crown this year because Myles will be demanding a double team so often.  I still think Myles will have the most sacks, but if Vernon is healthy, double digits is not out of the question.  We also have a sub-package where Myles kicks inside and Avery goes to DE.  That's just nasty.  

Damn, now I'm all pumped up for week 1!  Somebody get the predictions threat rocking, hahaha.

[gumby73]

On 8/24/2019 at 1:17 PM, jiggins7919 said:

We consistently heard good things about Devaroe Lawrence, and he was feared to have torn knee ligaments two weeks ago. Freddie walked across the practice facility to give him a hug, and I thought this was telling. First, just how important Lawrence is to our team, and secondly how much Freddie cares for these guys. Obviously the injury was only a scare, and Lawrence will likely make the team. 

  can't help but to root for fun, coachable players like this..    

[TexasAg1969]

9 hours ago, gumby73 said:

can't help but to root for fun, coachable players like this..    

I totally agree. I really like this guy and he is constantly improving. Just the guy you want coming off the bench to let the big dogs get a breather while he gives his all. Every team needs a team leader who does it by doing whatever helps the team the most. The very definition of "there is no I in TEAM".

[jiggins7919]

4 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I totally agree. I really like this guy and he is constantly improving. Just the guy you want coming off the bench to let the big dogs get a breather while he gives his all. Every team needs a team leader who does it by doing whatever helps the team the most. The very definition of "there is no I in TEAM".

I love this quote from Devaroe:

"Some are a little taller, some are 6-7, some 6-6, 6-5. I might be 6-2, maybe 6-3, but you know, I take my approach as the little man syndrome," Lawrence explained. "Just be a firecracker. Yeah, you think you bigger than me, you gonna push me around? You ain't finna push me around. Got that little man syndrome. Get mad and knock them around a little bit, and the look on their face, when you get them to move then around a little bit ... They feel the strength a little bit. That weight room."

[calfoxwc]

Lawrence just has to make the final roster. He's destined to be in the rotation, work ethic, character, team play,

really tough, loves the game, and has that chip on his shoulder. Just reminds me of how Flugels talks about being not as big, but

really loving the game and the fight. They really found a player for the dline with him.

[TexasAg1969]

5 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Lawrence just has to make the final roster. He's destined to be in the rotation, work ethic, character, team play,

really tough, loves the game, and has that chip on his shoulder. Just reminds me of how Flugels talks about being not as big, but

really loving the game and the fight. They really found a player for the dline with him.

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog."-Mark Twain