Sleeping on Ravens

[Flugel]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'd take 4-2 fo sho. 

So would Moses Malone if he could ever stop stuttering...

[Dutch Oven]

2 hours ago, mjp28 said:

3-3 would be a minor disappointment.

Almost time for Dutch's '19 BROWNS questions, eh?

After the last preseason game. 

[The Gipper]

35 minutes ago, Flugel said:

3 isn't a couple anywhere but your cell phone my man!  

As much as I HATE saying this Gips, the Rats quietly re-loaded their 1st place roster extremely well.  They've been re-loading playoff rosters with great success for years - it's why we still hate them.  You know what happens when you forget to look out for #1?  You step in #2.

Their RB position was weak last year - now it's a strength.  Earl Thomas is a huge upgrade to their back tier. And when Baltimore gets back to extending drives and winning time of possession battles; that opens up a perfect play-action pass scenario to Marquise Brown against some very tired legs on defense.   

You can say what you want to about Lamar Jackson; but check out their record before he cracked the starting line-up in 2018 vrs what it was when he started.  He turned Joey Bottaflacco into Joey Botta-Onewayticketouttatown. 

I disagree.  again overall I think they are less talented now than last year. They lost too much talent too much leadership 

[SD_Tom]

I don't think LJ has ever missed a game. 

He really doesn't get hit hard very often. Freak level athlete. 

[Flugel]

14 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I disagree.  again overall I think they are less talented now than last year. They lost too much talent too much leadership 

They'll miss Mosley and T Suggs (although he turns 38 in October so they were going to start missing him soon even if he stayed); but they got better and more experienced everywhere else...

Here's the thing.We had zero difficulty stopping their offense when Flacco started last year as the scoreboard reflected. When Jackson started, we couldn't get their offense off the field.  You can pretend otherwise but we couldn't.  I'll even concede, we got screwed  on Jackson's fumble  at the 2 yard line that would have gone for a TD.  That said, we weren't one of the teams that forced him into mistakes.

Why all that about last year?  Because their offense added 2 serious scoring threats to it (Ingram and Brown) that will make his job even easier this year.  

If you want to pretend they're a BINGO Free Space for us - go right ahead...

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, Flugel said:

If you want to pretend they're a BINGO Free Space for us - go right ahead...

It's the same mentality that pretends Henry will not be a force to recon with despite his second half of the season use by the Titans and an improved OL in the off-season.

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

They'll miss Mosley and T Suggs (although he turns 38 in October so they were going to start missing him soon even if he stayed); but they got better and more experienced everywhere else...

Where?  I am not seeing it...except maybe RB slightly.

Here's the thing.We had zero difficulty stopping their offense when Flacco started last year as the scoreboard reflected. When Jackson started, we couldn't get their offense off the field.  You can pretend otherwise but we couldn't.  I'll even concede, we got screwed  on Jackson's fumble  at the 2 yard line that would have gone for a TD.  That said, we weren't one of the teams that forced him into mistakes.

Why all that about last year?  Because their offense added 2 serious scoring threats to it (Ingram and Brown) that will make his job even easier this year.  

If you want to pretend they're a BINGO Free Space for us - go right ahead...

I don't think any game is a gimme.    But the fact is,  besides losing  Mosley and Suggs (both Pro Bowl caliber)  they also lost Eric Weddle and Zadarius Smith from that defense.  Now they maybe made up for Weddle with getting Thomas...but that front 7 took a serious blow...to be replaced by:  ???

Weddle and Mosley were two of the 4  Pro Bowlers on that entire team from last year (Brandon Williams and Yanda)...and Suggs was their Yoda on defense..their inspirational leader.  Replacing Weddle with Thomas is at most a wash.  Are the RBs they have now better than what they had before?  Likely...but since their leading rusher not name Lamar Jackson only had 411 rushing yards, that is not saying much.  And don't forget they also lost Michael Crabtree...and John Brown..so NO ONE on their receiving corps strikes fear:  Willie Snead, Seth Roberts, Nick Boyle?  And while maybe rookie Marquise Brown could become a player....also...maybe not.

So....while perhaps the Rats loss of talent is not a notorious as the Steelers....it may in fact be more damaging than what the Steelers lost. 

There is a reason that the Shiteaters are considered unlikely to not defend their division crown:  aside from gains by the Browns...it is losses by them...more so than by the Steelers.

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I don't think any game is a gimme.    But the fact is,  besides losing  Mosley and Suggs (both Pro Bowl caliber)  they also lost Eric Weddle and Zadarius Smith from that defense.  Now they maybe made up for Weddle with getting Thomas...but that front 7 took a serious blow...to be replaced by:  ???

Weddle and Mosley were two of the 4  Pro Bowlers on that entire team from last year (Brandon Williams and Yanda)...and Suggs was their Yoda on defense..their inspirational leader.  Replacing Weddle with Thomas is at most a wash.  Are the RBs they have now better than what they had before?  Likely...but since their leading rusher not name Lamar Jackson only had 411 rushing yards, that is not saying much.  And don't forget they also lost Michael Crabtree...and John Brown..so NO ONE on their receiving corps strikes fear:  Willie Snead, Seth Roberts, Nick Boyle?  And while maybe rookie Marquise Brown could become a player....also...maybe not.

So....while perhaps the Rats loss of talent is not a notorious as the Steelers....it may in fact be more damaging than what the Steelers lost. 

There is a reason that the Shiteaters are considered unlikely to not defend their division crown:  aside from gains by the Browns...it is losses by them...more so than by the Steelers.

Catch your breath. I want them to suck more than you but slapping a blindfold over my eyes to join you here ain't gonna do it.

You can spin doctor this stuff all you want.  Fact is, they were losing last year before they made the QB change while we were winless before we made our QB change. Even the night Baker took the field we were down 14-0. Both offensive lines sure looked better after the QB changes didn't they?  Not only that, both

T Suggs will be 38 years old in October; so he can retire and enjoy his grand children in the same state he played his college football in too many moons ago.  All his best football is in the rear view mirror.

Earl Thomas is an upgrade to Eric Weddle, who lost at least 1 step if not 2.

Mark Ingram is a massive upgrade to any of the dime a dozen RBs they looked to last year. 

Their offensive line is very good. Their TEs are young, talented, and another year wiser with experience.

The foot speed of Marquise Brown was an invaluable help to Baker in the big-play department at Oklahoma as well as their next Heisman Trophy Winning QB. Of course he upgrades the Rats' offense; especially in the 2nd half when defenses are gased from chasing the QB they couldn't catch all afternoon.  And just when an opponent wants to put a spy on the QB, they have a lot of talent at TE as well as RB Mark Ingram out of the backfield to attack the area the spy departs from. 

They're built to control the ball, wear defenses down (while their own defense rests) and score TDs with the dangerous footspeed assembled.  It doesn't get easier to defend them with tired legs, which was why they started a winning streak when they changed QBs. 

If your way to cope with it all is to pretend they did zero in the offseason - then have at it Gips.

 

[The Gipper]

23 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Catch your breath. I want them to suck more than you but slapping a blindfold over my eyes to join you here ain't gonna do it.

Maybe you do...if you are really saying what you have said here.

You can spin doctor this stuff all you want.  Fact is, they were losing last year before they made the QB change while we were winless before we made our QB change. Even the night Baker took the field we were down 14-0. Both offensive lines sure looked better after the QB changes didn't they?  Not only that, both.

So...you give ALL the credit to Jackson. We shall see if running like a chicken with its head cut off constitutes a winning formula

T Suggs will be 38 years old in October; so he can retire and enjoy his grand children in the same state he played his college football in too many moons ago.  All his best football is in the rear view mirror.

Yes....but it was still better for them to have had him than not to have had him. As I said, he was their inspirational leader, which they no longer have.

Earl Thomas is an upgrade to Eric Weddle, who lost at least 1 step if not 2.

Uhm...actually it is the opposite.  Weddle would be an upgrade over Thomas.  Weddle made the Pro Bowl last year.  Thomas is entering like his 10th or 11th year....and has been injured each of the last 3 seasons.  At BEST it is a wash...if not a downgrade

Mark Ingram is a massive upgrade to any of the dime a dozen RBs they looked to last year. 

Yes, sure, they had nobody last year. But now they have at best an  adequate, middle of the road RB   who will be 30 this year and who is on his downside.  Better than what they had? Again, not saying much.

Their offensive line is very good.

But not improved from last year.  Again, at best a wash

Their TEs are young, talented, and another year wiser with experience.

Their TEs would rank last in this division.

The foot speed of Marquise Brown was an invaluable help to Baker in the big-play department at Oklahoma as well as their next Heisman Trophy Winning QB. Of course he upgrades the Rats' offense; especially in the 2nd half when defenses are gased from chasing the QB they couldn't catch all afternoon.  And just when an opponent wants to put a spy on the QB, they have a lot of talent at TE as well as RB Mark Ingram out of the backfield to attack the area the spy departs from. 

Of course he upgrades their offense my ass...again, they lost  John Brown and Crabtree...and they have this rookie to replace them. I am not saying he is a slouch...he is just an unknown.  He could be the second coming of Corey Coleman for all we know.  

They're built to control the ball, wear defenses down (while their own defense rests) and score TDs with the dangerous footspeed assembled.  It doesn't get easier to defend them with tired legs, which was why they started a winning streak when they changed QBs. 

If your way to cope with it all is to pretend they did zero in the offseason - then have at it Gips.

Did they do -0-?  No...they had a draft like every other team...and they signed a few free agents......but their losses were so large that in a zero sum game they are less than zero.

Their RB corps ranks 4th in the division, even with Ingram:  Browns/Steelers/Bengals are all better

The WR/TE corps ranks 4th in the division...Browns/Steelers/Bengals are all better.

Their OL?  Not as good as Pisstown...not as bad as Bengals...they and the Browns may be on par.

Their front 7?  Vastly diminished in talent with 3 solid players gone

Their defensive backfield.   They are probably the best in the division...based on who they have coming back....Tony Jefferson, Jimmy Smith...and as I said, Thomas adequately replaced Weddle.  But in my view...slight down grade.

Their QB?  Big question mark....not as good as either Baker or BR in my view.   And to say that he beats out Andy Dalton....well, I guess when you count his running ability.

 

 

[The Gipper]

5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

It's the same mentality that pretends Henry will not be a force to recon with despite his second half of the season use by the Titans and an improved OL in the off-season.

Why do you always bring up the boner you have for Henry  where it is a totally non sequiter?

[Dutch Oven]

5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

It's the same mentality that pretends Henry will not be a force to recon with despite his second half of the season use by the Titans and an improved OL in the off-season.

Sweet Jesus you have a PoG-like obsession over Henry. 😝

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

 

No more ping pong Gips.  It is what it is.  Baltimore won the division last year after switching QBs and winning 6 of their last 7 regular season games. 

You're not going to convince me Jackson had zero to do with their hot finish until you've convinced yourself of that; which you have yet to do.

They strengthened their offense with weapons like Ingram and Brown; while they upgraded the 32 year old Eric Weddle at Safety with the 29 year old Earl Thomas who made another Pro Bowl in 2017.

[nickers]

49 minutes ago, Flugel said:

No more ping pong Gips.  It is what it is.  Baltimore won the division last year after switching QBs and winning 6 of their last 7 regular season games. 

You're not going to convince me Jackson had zero to do with their hot finish until you've convinced yourself of that; which you have yet to do.

They strengthened their offense with weapons like Ingram and Brown; while they upgraded the 32 year old Eric Weddle at Safety with the 29 year old Earl Thomas who made another Pro Bowl in 2017.

Sorry Tom.. But Balts defense carried his ass...

[Icecube]

14 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I disagree.  again overall I think they are less talented now than last year. They lost too much talent too much leadership 

That's where quality leadership coaching and a steady franchise comes in. There can be such a thing as addition through subtraction. They survives losing Read, Lewis, etc. and still be a winning team. I think they will still be a good team losing the Suggs, etc. as well. We will see.  

[Icecube]

There is more to the quality of a football team than just mere talent. With that thinking, Pitt is a far worse team because they don't have AB and Bell. Do you really think that's going to be the case? They will be a better team without those two idiots, even though both are very talented. Chemistry matters. 

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Sweet Jesus you have a PoG-like obsession over Henry. 😝

Valdez is coming.🤣

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Why do you always bring up the boner you have for Henry  where it is a totally non sequiter?

Oooooooooooooooo I love it when you talk lawyer.😍🤣

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, nickers said:

Sorry Tom.. But Balts defense carried his ass...

The same defense was only 4-5 when Flacco was their QB.

Then they went 6-1 when Jackson was their QB. 

When Jackson took over -  they surged up to #2 in Rushing.  In the process, there was an article on December 5th stating since Jackson took over at QB the Ravens have led the NFL in time of possession (holding the ball an average of 37:20 per game).  They weren't doing that w/Flacco and you know it.  When their offense did this for their defense, their defense played with much fresher legs in the 22:40 duration they had to take the field. And when your defense only has to play 1/3 of the game - less yardage and points are yielded.  That mattered way more than you and Gips seem to think it did.

Do I think Lamar Jackson is a good passer?  No.  But I do think he is a beyotch to catch on 3rd downs as many of his opponents learned. 

If you think that same team was headed for 10-6 and playoffs with Flacco last year - you're sniffing the same glue Gipper got into today.

So, where are we as it pertains to the subject heading?  The Division Champs were ranked #2 in rushing last year and they just added Mark Ingram. My guess is they liked how that time of possession formula worked in their favor on both sides of the ball so they want that success to continue.   The best defense can be a good offense that keeps its defense seated 2/3 of the game.

Outside of Pittsburgh, there isn't a team I hate more than Baltimore so I'm FREAKIN done with this conversation. 

 

[Clevfan4life]

ravens gon be tuff sleddin....brace urselves for that. Defense is going to hafe to be rotated quite a bit. Which means 2nd tier players like smith, avery, davis. laurence...are gonna see alot of playin time. 

[nickers]

3 hours ago, Flugel said:

The same defense was only 4-5 when Flacco was their QB.

Then they went 6-1 when Jackson was their QB. 

When Jackson took over -  they surged up to #2 in Rushing.  In the process, there was an article on December 5th stating since Jackson took over at QB the Ravens have led the NFL in time of possession (holding the ball an average of 37:20 per game).  They weren't doing that w/Flacco and you know it.  When their offense did this for their defense, their defense played with much fresher legs in the 22:40 duration they had to take the field. And when your defense only has to play 1/3 of the game - less yardage and points are yielded.  That mattered way more than you and Gips seem to think it did.

Do I think Lamar Jackson is a good passer?  No.  But I do think he is a beyotch to catch on 3rd downs as many of his opponents learned. 

If you think that same team was headed for 10-6 and playoffs with Flacco last year - you're sniffing the same glue Gipper got into today.

So, where are we as it pertains to the subject heading?  The Division Champs were ranked #2 in rushing last year and they just added Mark Ingram. My guess is they liked how that time of possession formula worked in their favor on both sides of the ball so they want that success to continue.   The best defense can be a good offense that keeps its defense seated 2/3 of the game.

Outside of Pittsburgh, there isn't a team I hate more than Baltimore so I'm FREAKIN done with this conversation. 

 

Tom... Anybody with an ounce of intelligence knows they can't keep this up forever.. You can't be that one dimensional and expect to be consistent.. Defense will load the box and push him to the side where he has the least success..  Remember what Sam Rutigliano said... "There are no old running QB's in the NFL ' and it's true..... If Lamar doesnt become a better passer than he is.. His career will be a very short one.. Then the Ratbirds are back at Square one.. It could be that the team was tired of Flacco , knowing his Skills were diminishing....  Trust me.. That fake ass QB won't make it half the season...

[The Gipper]

6 hours ago, Flugel said:

No more ping pong Gips.  It is what it is.  Baltimore won the division last year after switching QBs and winning 6 of their last 7 regular season games. 

You're not going to convince me Jackson had zero to do with their hot finish until you've convinced yourself of that; which you have yet to do.

They strengthened their offense with weapons like Ingram and Brown; while they upgraded the 32 year old Eric Weddle at Safety with the 29 year old Earl Thomas who made another Pro Bowl in 2017.

Baltimore was better with Jackson than with Flacco...sure.   And sure he helped them with their finish...never denied that.  But I certainly am NOT crowning his ass.  He is in a fight for 3rd best QB in the division with Andy Dalton.

They probably are better at RB than they were last year....when, like I said, their best runner had all of 411 yards.  They could have gotten better by signing a potted plant.   Again...their RBs even with Ingram count as last as RB unit in the division.

And there is NO evidence, other than your apparent opinion about him that Marquise Brown can be even as good as John Brown. Baltimore's  WR corps, again, ranks last in the division. 

Every offensive unit of the Ravens  is either last or next to the last in the division. 

I believe their  DL and LBs may be last in the division.

As for Weddle/Thomas.....It was Weddle who made the Pro Bowl last year.  Not Thomas.  It is Weddle who has played 16 games each of the last 3 seasons while Thomas was out injured. Some players play better longer.  Thomas has been breaking down, Weddle has not.  But Thomas will have more help than the rest of the Baltimore team...as the defensive backfield is likely the best in the division.

[nickers]

3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Baltimore was better with Jackson than with Flacco...sure.   And sure he helped them with their finish...never denied that.  But I certainly am NOT crowning his ass.  He is in a fight for 3rd best QB in the division with Andy Dalton.

They probably are better at RB than they were last year....when, like I said, their best runner had all of 411 yards.  They could have gotten better by signing a potted plant.   Again...their RBs even with Ingram count as last as RB unit in the division.

And there is NO evidence, other than your apparent opinion about him that Marquise Brown can be even as good as John Brown. Baltimore's  WR corps, again, ranks last in the division. 

Every offensive unit of the Ravens  is either last or next to the last in the division. 

I believe their  DL and LBs may be last in the division.

As for Weddle/Thomas.....It was Weddle who made the Pro Bowl last year.  Not Thomas.  It is Weddle who has played 16 games each of the last 3 seasons while Thomas was out injured. Some players play better longer.  Thomas has been breaking down, Weddle has not.  But Thomas will have more help than the rest of the Baltimore team...as the defensive backfield is likely the best in the division.

I'll take our backfield over Baltiwhores any day of the week...

[The Gipper]

8 minutes ago, nickers said:

I'll take our backfield over Baltiwhores any day of the week...

I would take the backfield of the Bengals and Steelers over Shiteating birds.

Conner...Mixon/Giovani

[nickers]

51 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I would take the backfield of the Bengals and Steelers over Shiteating birds.

Conner...Mixon/Giovani

I should've been more clearer and said "Our Secondary Backfield"

[gumby73]

8 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I would take the backfield of the Bengals and Steelers over Shiteating birds.

To you and to others..who do we think does more with less talent from the coaching side? John Harbaugh or Tomlin? Harbaugh seems more gameplan prepared than others imo.. individual players taped up I lean towards Harbaugh also..I want to see what John does with some missing pieces now on that defense..we may get our answers

 

[EastSideDawg]

the ravens are going to be in the mix. they are going to be in alot of close games and due to the style they play a tough team to beat as long as jackson is healthy.  if he is slowed for any reason ankle or knee issues they will be easy to defend.

the whole season rests on lamar's health. 

[Zombo]

On 8/16/2019 at 3:15 PM, hoorta said:

Speaking of run first QBs- anyone else see Kyler Murray's highlights? Make that lowlights. Sacked for a safety. Thought he did a most excellent DeShone Kizer impersonation. Missing guys by 10 yards. 

 

Yikes.

Zombo

[The Gipper]

8 hours ago, nickers said:

I should've been more clearer and said "Our Secondary Backfield"

OK...yes, I have said that the Ravens have the best DB in the division...even with, as I say, the Weddle/Thomas thing being a wash.

[The Gipper]

40 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

To you and to others..who do we think does more with less talent from the coaching side? John Harbaugh or Tomlin? Harbaugh seems more gameplan prepared than others imo.. individual players taped up I lean towards Harbaugh also..I want to see what John does with some missing pieces now on that defense..we may get our answers

 

I would tend to agree that Harbaugh does more with less talent than does Tomlin.....but the fact is...this year the Ravens DO have "less talent".

[The Gipper]

19 minutes ago, EastSideDawg said:

the ravens are going to be in the mix. they are going to be in alot of close games and due to the style they play a tough team to beat as long as jackson is healthy.  if he is slowed for any reason ankle or knee issues they will be easy to defend.

the whole season rests on lamar's health. 

Well....also, the one thing I have said is that the Ravens have the best kicker in the division with Tucker. And, again, no on said that they would not be tough and not be in the mix.  But they have an overall downgrade in talent from last year. Just the loss of CJ Mosley accomplishes that, aside from their other losses.