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Orion

What did we think of Hilliard in game 1

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He certainly got a lot of game time.  

So, I picture him as the replacement for Duke.  Which is what I think Dorsey figured he was.

He fumbled on the goal line.  A fumble is bad.  A couple of guys whacked him at the one, and one of 'em had helmet smash into the football.  He wasn't getting in the end anyway.  But still...a fumble is bad.  Still AGAIN, he really shouldn't be in the game in that situation.  It should be the power back in there.  Duke wouldn't be in the game in that situation. (although Duke was a bit heavier and stronger, so better suited if forced to be in the game).

Hilliard caught the ball well, like Duke.  And he ran the ball well enough, like Duke.  But again, he and Duke aren't intended to be the every down back.

Where I see the biggest deficiency is in his blocking.  He got called for a hold when the defender basically bowled him over like he wasn't there so he tackled the defender.  And he really should've been called much earlier in the game for a blatant hold , because he was beat.  Duke was a good blocker.  It doesn't seem that HIlliard can hold off a blitzer...at least that's what I think I see (saw).   

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I’m on the fence with the guy honestly. First glancing the game now, haven’t even considered looking at his blocking but distressed at the thought. Duke was such a good blocker. 

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2 hours ago, Orion said:

He certainly got a lot of game time.  

So, I picture him as the replacement for Duke.  Which is what I think Dorsey figured he was.

He fumbled on the goal line.  A fumble is bad.  A couple of guys whacked him at the one, and one of 'em had helmet smash into the football.  He wasn't getting in the end anyway.  But still...a fumble is bad.  Still AGAIN, he really shouldn't be in the game in that situation.  It should be the power back in there.  Duke wouldn't be in the game in that situation. (although Duke was a bit heavier and stronger, so better suited if forced to be in the game).

Hilliard caught the ball well, like Duke.  And he ran the ball well enough, like Duke.  But again, he and Duke aren't intended to be the every down back.

Where I see the biggest deficiency is in his blocking.  He got called for a hold when the defender basically bowled him over like he wasn't there so he tackled the defender.  And he really should've been called much earlier in the game for a blatant hold , because he was beat.  Duke was a good blocker.  It doesn't seem that HIlliard can hold off a blitzer...at least that's what I think I see (saw).   

From being at the game, my POV?  The short of it? He sucks, and is no Duke. Reason he was undrafted. Dorsey crossing his fingers he doesn't run Chubb into the ground before Hunt comes back off of his suspension. 

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4 hours ago, hoorta said:

From being at the game, my POV?  The short of it? He sucks, and is no Duke. Reason he was undrafted. Dorsey crossing his fingers he doesn't run Chubb into the ground before Hunt comes back off of his suspension. 

So are we going to be watching who gets cut elsewhere or hits someone's PS? Or do we stick with him through 8 games? The key will be how he is doing/improving on a daily basis on the practice field.

BTW I just saw Orchard sack the QB for Miami in watching the replay of their game against the Falcons.

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3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

So are we going to be watching who gets cut elsewhere or hits someone's PS? Or do we stick with him through 8 games?

Perhaps both.

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i think he's solid. God forbid something happens to chubb i think he'll be serviceable for a couple games till hunt arrives. Teams are not going to stack the box at all against the air show bakers gonna put on....so RB isnt going to be a heavy feature

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I think Hilliard has a lot of proving to do.

And I think the Browns will still be looking closely at the waiver wires.

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3 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

i think he's solid. God forbid something happens to chubb i think he'll be serviceable for a couple games till hunt arrives. Teams are not going to stack the box at all against the air show bakers gonna put on....so RB isnt going to be a heavy feature

😂 Solid LOL!! 9 carries, 19 yards and a fumble. 3 receptions for 34 yards on 6 targets. That's my definition of suck Cal. You had better hope we don't need to use him as a starter. 

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10 minutes ago, hoorta said:

😂 Solid LOL!! 9 carries, 19 yards and a fumble. 3 receptions for 34 yards on 6 targets. That's my definition of suck Cal. You had better hope we don't need to use him as a starter. 

well im not judging him as starter material...he just needs to be adequate on giving chubb some rest for 8 games, thsts it

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31 minutes ago, hoorta said:

😂 Solid LOL!! 9 carries, 19 yards and a fumble. 3 receptions for 34 yards on 6 targets. That's my definition of suck Cal. You had better hope we don't need to use him as a starter. 

I am hoping that his minimal carry yardage is a reflection of him...and not on how our Offensive Line will perform in their run blocking this year.

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3 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

well im not judging him as starter material...he just needs to be adequate on giving chubb some rest for 8 games, thsts it

What I'm saying CleveFan. 2.1 ypc isn't what I'd call adequate. It's called trotting a warm body out on the field to give Chubb a breather. I'll cut him some slack, it's only one preseason game.

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Finished watching the game, and Hilliard got a nice long look in action. He does do some things decently. Blocking indeed isn’t one of them. He had one nice block. Was bending sideways at max effort, but kept the blitzer at bay. 

And fumbling really is the cardinal sin. Talk about a drive killer.

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Just now, Clevfan4life said:

i think he's solid. God forbid something happens to chubb i think he'll be serviceable for a couple games till hunt arrives. Teams are not going to stack the box at all against the air show bakers gonna put on....so RB isnt going to be a heavy feature

You still need to rush the ball. Very few teams win rings if they can't run the ball....very few. Even the west coast offense teams still run. Pats ran a lot down the stretch to winning their ring last year. A lot. As a matter of fact, you can set your watch to when Andy Reid teams lose in the playoffs; it happens every time he gets too pass happy. Rams lost the Super Bowl in 2000 because they quit running the ball. 

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Just now, Ibleedbrown said:

Finished watching the game, and Hilliard got a nice long look in action. He does do some things decently. Blocking indeed isn’t one of them. He had one nice block. Was bending sideways at max effort, but kept the blitzer at bay. 

And fumbling really is the cardinal sin. Talk about a drive killer.

He's a step back in talent from Duke, over all. But he could be serviceable. 

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I think he could be a serviceable 3rd down back. He can be upgraded in that regard, but he is not a good backup RB. RBs are a dime a dozen so we should find someone before the season starts. Hell bring back Hyde as insurance policy he will probably get cut

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5 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Finished watching the game, and Hilliard got a nice long look in action. He does do some things decently. Blocking indeed isn’t one of them. He had one nice block. 

during watching the game..RB's ran the ball 15 times for 75 yards...how many yards would a healthy Bo Jackson get running behind that OL blocking? am not concerned about Hillard at this point..it's going to take both 

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As gumby says, the OL wasn't opening running lanes.

We've gotta make sure that we have Cubb 'covered' for the 1st eight games.  Concussions are things that can get a guy pulled from the game...and kept out for multiple games....and RB's are certainly targets for a concussion.  We have to have another 'thumper' RB that can get that yard or two when you absolutely need it.  Hilliard is not the 3rd and short RB.  He's the 3rd and long guy.

 

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12 hours ago, hoorta said:

I'd call adequate. It's called trotting a warm body out on the field to give Chubb a breather. .

precisely, yes

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It doesn't take a genius to know Duke is a better player.  The fact is Duke wanted out so I don't see value in keeping a guy like that.  I am glad he is gone, wish him well, and am thrilled we will probably get a 3rd round pick out of the deal.

 

As for Hilliard, he will be fine.  Dorsey seems to be fine with the guy.  If he thought that Hilliard "sucked" he wouldn't have made the deal because Hilliard wouldn't even be on the team.

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20 hours ago, hoorta said:

😂 Solid LOL!! 9 carries, 19 yards and a fumble. 3 receptions for 34 yards on 6 targets. That's my definition of suck Cal. You had better hope we don't need to use him as a starter. 

How about a little perspective on this...

1st, you were responding to Clevs, not Cal. 

2nd, it wasn't that long ago the depth chart at RB looked like this:  1) Chubb, 2) Hunt, 3) Duke and 4) Hilliard.  If you were disappointed he didn't look like a polished version of Alvin Kamara in our 1st preseason game - that's on you.  The lack of overall game experience was reflected in the fumble and the holding penalty.  Duke had plenty of fumbles that ended drives while he was here; especially during our stretch of 1-31 football.

3rd, if you looked at Chubb's 1st pre-season game last year - you'll see a similarity with the ypc.  I remember reminding someone that it was only his 1st preseason game when someone pointed out he sucked too.  This what the preseason is for - learning what guys are good at and what they need to improve on as well as what they shouldn't be doing.   If we couldn't score from the 1 yard line at Tampa on 2 consecutive plays last year running behind Zeitler with a bigger, work horse back like Chubb - I doubt we're going to ask the 202 lb Hilliard to do this when the games count.

Last but not least, when Baker was our QB the other night - Hilliard played like we needed him to. He had 2 receptions of the 5 passes Baker completed in our 89 yard drive that ended with a TD.  Truth be told, he DID look pretty good like Clevsies said.   2 targets = 2 completions. Pretty amazing how easy it looks when there's a reliability of accuracy from the guy throwing the passes. 

 

Edited by Flugel
typo
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Chubb last year had the best YAC [contact, not catch] season of any RB in the history of the NFL.

So, when considering how to spell him.. Keep those expectations in check, we'd be lucky to get the league average with a backup.  Our OL isn't as good as last year.  

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thats right dont we all rem how awful and slow chubb looked last year? At the time i.didnt give a shit cause i didnt really care about chubb....csuse we had hyde. Then chubb got some aux carries a couple games in and we were all.like holy shit that was not what we saw in TC and preseason.

I rem now dustin fox talkibg on the radio at how jarring it was in preseason/TC to see how slow and unexplosive chubb was....that maybe tgete was a physical prob with him. 

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5 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

thats right dont we all rem how awful and slow chubb looked last year? At the time i.didnt give a shit cause i didnt really care about chubb....csuse we had hyde. Then chubb got some aux carries a couple games in and we were all.like holy shit that was not what we saw in TC and preseason.

I rem now dustin fox talkibg on the radio at how jarring it was in preseason/TC to see how slow and unexplosive chubb was....that maybe tgete was a physical prob with him. 

No some of us watched him at Georgia. He was only slow when compared to Michel. I was elated when we got him and not at all surprised at him beating out the slow Hyde.

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13 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

No some of us watched him at Georgia. He was only slow when compared to Michel. I was elated when we got him and not at all surprised at him beating out the slow Hyde.

Believe it or not, Chubb is actually faster than Michel.  When you make it to the state finals in Georgia for the 100 meter dash - you're not slow.  As recently as the combine, Chubb ran a 4.52 forty while Sony Michel ran a 4.54. 

 

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42 minutes ago, Flugel said:

Believe it or not, Chubb is actually faster than Michel.  When you make it to the state finals in Georgia for the 100 meter dash - you're not slow.  As recently as the combine, Chubb ran a 4.52 forty while Sony Michel ran a 4.54.

Their last year on the field together Michel seemed faster in games. But Chubb has since regained a lot of the speed he lost after that horrible injury. My son and I are going to a HS game on the 30th to watch his best athlete from 7th-8th grade teams he coached play for Temple High. He could be CB or QB, we don't know for sure yet. But my son tells me at the UTSA camp he ran a 4.34 40. That there is definitely NFL speed. He should get a lot of playing time as a 10th grader since the O and D coaches are each trying to claim him for their side of the ball. He wants to go to OSU, but I wear my A&M stuff when I visit with him at games. Really nice kid. One really great athlete. Most potential I've seen in HS since watching Mason Crosby kick for Georgetown HS.

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Michel is more like a little bigger than Duke Johnson, with a quicker slash and cut.

Chubb is more of a very fast power back. Getting Chubb, who I wanted more than any other rb in the draft...

was just priceless.

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4 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Michel is more like a little bigger than Duke Johnson, with a quicker slash and cut.

Chubb is more of a very fast power back. Getting Chubb, who I wanted more than any other rb in the draft...

was just priceless.

I had Michel and Chubb 1a and 1b and was happy with whichever one we got. Chubb is starting to show the hands that Michel had at Bama. Nice development.

EDIT: And Hunt has excellent hands as well

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On 8/10/2019 at 5:36 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

So are we going to be watching who gets cut elsewhere or hits someone's PS? Or do we stick with him through 8 games? The key will be how he is doing/improving on a daily basis on the practice field.

BTW I just saw Orchard sack the QB for Miami in watching the replay of their game against the Falcons.

I have often wondered why Orchard wasn't kept by Cleveland OR why he wasn't immediately scooped up by another team. He seemed to get to the QB.

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On 8/10/2019 at 10:20 AM, Clevfan4life said:
  1. i think he's solid. God forbid something happens to chubb i think he'll be serviceable for a couple games till hunt arrives.
  2. Teams are not going to stack the box at all against the air show bakers gonna put on....so RB isnt going to be a heavy feature
  1. Agree.... the difference in Hilliard's performance with the 1's vs with the 2's was noticable.
  2. While I agree that we will be more of a "pass to set up the run" team... rather than the old school vice versa... our success rests largely upon  being able to run effectively when we do run. And in the end with (hopefully) the need to secure late leads and chew up clock we will end up being close to a 50/50 pass/run team
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