El Paso shooter pic here we go again

[jbluhm86]

1 hour ago, FairHooker11 said:

i take exception to it being "right wing" 

the link source did better in that it didnt mention "right wing" 

but keep the hate rhetoric going  - itll get us nowhere...

So when nutjobs in Antifa attack people, it's called left-wing/leftie/libtard violence by people on here, but now that it's right-wingers in El Paso pulling the trigger, I'm keeping the "hate rhetoric going". Give me a break. I'm calling it for what it is: extremist, anti-immigrant right-wing violence, fueled by rhetoric coming from the right-wing community.

And frankly, I don't really give two fucks if you take exception to it being called that or not.

[MLD Woody]

37 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

So when nutjobs in Antifa attack people, it's called left-wing/leftie/libtard violence by people on here, but now that it's right-wingers in El Paso pulling the trigger, I'm keeping the "hate rhetoric going". Give me a break. I'm calling it for what it is: extremist, anti-immigrant right-wing violence, fueled by rhetoric coming from the right-wing community.

And frankly, I don't really give two fucks if you take exception to it being called that or not.

You already knew this is how they'd react. You asked the question at the beginning of the thread but you knew the answer

 

- Any Muslim that does something like this is part of Islamic extremist terrorism

- this guy is just a crazy person. Not a trend or part of a group

- he's not a terrorist. No way. 

- he isn't right wing at all. He only wanted fame. Definitely his only motive

 

 

Smh. Just head in the sand shit. No problem jumping on all of this stuff when it fits their narrative but heaven forbid when the shooter looks like them or can be linked to their political beliefs. 

 

And yes Steve, 8chan matters here because it's a breeding ground for right wing extremism. That's a fact. 

 

[jbluhm86]

At least some prominent conservatives have the decency to call a spade a spade on this issue:

[Westside Steve]

Beto O'Rourke links 'racist' Trump to El Paso shootings

AOL.COM 1 hr ago

 

Democratic presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke on Saturday blamed Donald Trump in part for the deadly El Paso shootings that killed 20 people because he said the president’s “racism” leads “to violence.”

O’Rourke attacked the president when he was asked by an ABC News reporter if Trump had any responsibility for the shootings.

“Yes,” O’Rourke flatly responded.

“We’ve had a rise in hate crimes every single one of the last three years, during an administration where you have a president who’s called Mexicans rapists and criminals,” said the former Texas congressman and El Paso native.

“He is a racist, and he stokes racism in this country,” O’Rourke added.” It does not just offend our sensibilities; it fundamentally changes the character of this country and it leads to violence

[Chemist]

How has banning drugs worked out? 

What? You mean there are still drugs on the streets? And people still die from overdosing? And an entire underground industry exists that creates violent crimes pushes illegal drugs out into the streets? 

 

But surely banning guns won’t have the same effect. 

[MLD Woody]

3 minutes ago, Chemist said:

How has banning drugs worked out? 

What? You mean there are still drugs on the streets? And people still die from overdosing? And an entire underground industry exists that creates violent crimes pushes illegal drugs out into the streets? 

 

But surely banning guns won’t have the same effect. 

 

1) Then legalize drugs. Why have any laws then?

2) Drugs hurt the user

[Westside Steve]

Violence against others because of their nationality or race is one of the most despicable type? Seriously? I would say every act of violence against any human being for any fucking reason is equally despicable. If I had to drag them I would think that shooting children in school or beating raping and killing a woman would be more Despicable.

But of course no saying person thinks this kind of action is cool. The discussion has nothing to do with sanity.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

3 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

 

1) Then legalize drugs. Why have any laws then?

 it seems they are slowly eliminating those laws doesn't it?

2) Drugs hurt the user

 so drug addicts don't cause problems for society? Good to know.

Are you willing to go the direction of Australia and England? If not, why not?

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

7 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Beto O'Rourke links 'racist' Trump to El Paso shootings

AOL.COM 1 hr ago

 

Democratic presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke on Saturday blamed Donald Trump in part for the deadly El Paso shootings that killed 20 people because he said the president’s “racism” leads “to violence.”

O’Rourke attacked the president when he was asked by an ABC News reporter if Trump had any responsibility for the shootings.

“Yes,” O’Rourke flatly responded.

“We’ve had a rise in hate crimes every single one of the last three years, during an administration where you have a president who’s called Mexicans rapists and criminals,” said the former Texas congressman and El Paso native.

“He is a racist, and he stokes racism in this country,” O’Rourke added.” It does not just offend our sensibilities; it fundamentally changes the character of this country and it leads to violence

CNN has been blaming Trump also.  

[MLD Woody]

4 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Beto O'Rourke links 'racist' Trump to El Paso shootings

AOL.COM 1 hr ago

 

Democratic presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke on Saturday blamed Donald Trump in part for the deadly El Paso shootings that killed 20 people because he said the president’s “racism” leads “to violence.”

O’Rourke attacked the president when he was asked by an ABC News reporter if Trump had any responsibility for the shootings.

“Yes,” O’Rourke flatly responded.

“We’ve had a rise in hate crimes every single one of the last three years, during an administration where you have a president who’s called Mexicans rapists and criminals,” said the former Texas congressman and El Paso native.

“He is a racist, and he stokes racism in this country,” O’Rourke added.” It does not just offend our sensibilities; it fundamentally changes the character of this country and it leads to violence

 

and Obama gets blamed  by most of this board for any negative incident done by a minority, a Muslim, or a left wing person

 

 

that being said, Trump has repeatedly called immigrants from the south coming to this country an "invasion" and this guys manifesto used the same terminology. 

There are plenty of issues at play here and Trump obviously isn't responsible, but he sure as hell isn't helping

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

All I'm asking you to do is be realistic. If not it's only political posturing. Now you should look at how many people died in mass shootings every year and compare that to other deaths. If you think it's worth repealing the Second Amendment to cut down on the 20 or 30 or even 40 or 50 deaths a year...

WSS

I'm not talking repealing it at all. I'm talking defining it properly and that is where the discussion should be. It's already been done to some extent with the outlawing of automatic weapons. Some states also have magazine limits as well in their gun laws. But it's not universal across the U.S. like it should be. See below for my thoughts on military level weapons.

 

1 hour ago, calfoxwc said:

aha. the old LIBERAL recourse. nobody is talking "Minuteman",

You know I meant that figuratively cal, not literally. My point was if you want to use military weapons, that's where you can do so legally. Nobody else "needs" to have military style weapons, even if limited to semi-auto. Persons like us with CCWs/LTCs are severely limited in range/accuracy compared to those kinds of weapons. If I'm stuck in a mall shooting like that I at least want a semi-fair chance at stopping it.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Here's Cleve out shooting:

 

[MLD Woody]

unfortunately our govt. is just bought and sold by gun lobbyists. The NRA is a sham. We can't even pass some basic gun reform. And why in the fuck does anyone need to own an AR15?

 

At the rate we're going this shit isn't going to keep up. Based on polling now and the continued path of current events I don't think my generation is going to keep the status quo. There will be gun reform and changes coming. 

 

[jbluhm86]

Matt Walsh from over at the Daily Wire, condemning many right-winger's excuse-making. Another prominent conservative who has the moral fortitude to call the situation what it is:

[tiamat63]

9 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Violence against others because of their nationality or race is one of the most despicable type? Seriously? I would say every act of violence against any human being for any fucking reason is equally despicable.

Can't really find the association between intervening violently between a man beating his girl vs someone going off with a gun on spanish folk.

Both violent acts.   One, however, done with reason, intelligence and in defense of another.    

[MLD Woody]

10 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

Matt Walsh from over at the Daily Wire, condemning many right-winger's excuse-making. Another prominent conservative who has the moral fortitude to call the situation what it is:

 

 

 

 

This is great because this board is already trying to do that....

[The Cysko Kid]

2 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

 

 

Reason: El Paso Walmart Shooter Allegedly Wrote Anti-Immigrant Manifesto Calling Hispanics 'Invaders'

 

Like I said: right-wing, anti-immigrant terrorism. 

The problem I have with this is (label intended to divide) terrorism. Does terrorism not effectively enough convey terrorism? 

[MLD Woody]

3 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

The problem I have with this is (label intended to divide) terrorism. Does terrorism not effectively enough convey terrorism? 

No, because it should be classified. It is violence for a purpose

Terrorism - the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

 

What those political aims were defines the terrorism. Islamic extremists, extreme right wing, anarchy, whatever. 

[The Cysko Kid]

So I expect you're willing to both acknowledge the grim history of left wing terrorism in this country and take responsibility for it, then? 

[OldBrownsFan]

32 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

CNN has been blaming Trump also.  

Of course they would...they will blame this president for everything under the sun.

[MLD Woody]

1 minute ago, The Cysko Kid said:

So I expect you're willing to both acknowledge the grim history of left wing terrorism in this country and take responsibility for it, then? 

 

"Take responsibility"? What are you talking about?

If a terrorist had an extreme left wing manifesto  than call him an extremist left wing terrorist. Idc. Whatever bias you think you're going to get out of me it isn't here. 

Understanding the motives of a terrorist  is an important step in trying to find a solution. I think you look at that and you look at how they were able to inflict their terror.

[MLD Woody]

Just now, OldBrownsFan said:

Of course they would...they will blame this president for everything under the sun.

Again, what this board and other right wing folks did to Obama for 8 years and counting. 

95% of the time it is just ridiculous political banter. But don't get all  up in arms about one side doing it when they both do. 

 

 

Though, again, I think Trump literally calling this an invasion, repeatedly, along with everything else he's said, isn't a great look. 

[OldBrownsFan]

Just now, MLD Woody said:

Again, what this board and other right wing folks did to Obama for 8 years and counting. 

95% of the time it is just ridiculous political banter. But don't get all  up in arms about one side doing it when they both do. 

 

 

Though, again, I think Trump literally calling this an invasion, repeatedly, along with everything else he's said, isn't a great look. 

It has been an invasion. What else do you call hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants crossing the border (Illegally) ?.

[The Cysko Kid]

I think that this type of violence has been in high fashion for 20 years since rock stars were made of Harris and klebold. The same way as serial murder was in high fashion between the late 70's to mid 90's. 

Most of these guys don't have severe mental problems just like a lot of serial killers don't. FBI profiler Robert Ressler does a nice job laying out the difference between "organized" and "disorganized" killers in his memoir "whoever fights monsters". It's a great read I'd recommend it. 

I do think gun control would limit the body count but the psychology of it will keep people killing. I think that the internet itself is the biggest culprit in the fashion trend of mass shootings. Not guns, not political motivations, not Donald Trump although all of those things, with the exception of trump, play a role. The ability for friendless recluses to meet other people who already share their dark fantasy worlds in which they already live, to egg them on is the most prominent factor. 

 

[tiamat63]

12 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

I think that this type of violence has been in high fashion for 20 years since rock stars were made of Harris and klebold. The same way as serial murder was in high fashion between the late 70's to mid 90's. 

Most of these guys don't have severe mental problems just like a lot of serial killers don't. FBI profiler Robert Ressler does a nice job laying out the difference between "organized" and "disorganized" killers in his memoir "whoever fights monsters". It's a great read I'd recommend it. 

I do think gun control would limit the body count but the psychology of it will keep people killing. I think that the internet itself is the biggest culprit in the fashion trend of mass shootings. Not guns, not political motivations, not Donald Trump although all of those things, with the exception of trump, play a role. The ability for friendless recluses to meet other people who already share their dark fantasy worlds in which they already live, to egg them on is the most prominent factor. 

 

Appreciate the read idea. Will check it out.

[jbluhm86]

41 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

The problem I have with this is (label intended to divide) terrorism. Does terrorism not effectively enough convey terrorism? 

In an ideal world, it should. And it should be like that, regardless of where these shooters fall on the political spectrum. 

However, it hasn't played out that way here on the board (which is also a microcosm for our country at large). Every time Antifa committed violence, it was labeled as leftie/left-wing/liberal/libtard, etc, violence by right-wing posters on here. Or, blame was placed on Obama or another left-leaning politician, and none of the right-wingers on here had a problem calling it that.

But, now that the ones pulling the trigger are politically to the right, now all of a sudden it's taboo to say that political rhetoric is fueling violence and that people take exception to it being called right wing violence (not including you Cysko; as far as I know, you haven't claimed such of others in the past). The hypocrisy by many of the more conservative members of this board on this subject is frankly disgusting and pretty cowardly.

[jbluhm86]

29 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

I think that this type of violence has been in high fashion for 20 years since rock stars were made of Harris and klebold. The same way as serial murder was in high fashion between the late 70's to mid 90's. 

Most of these guys don't have severe mental problems just like a lot of serial killers don't. FBI profiler Robert Ressler does a nice job laying out the difference between "organized" and "disorganized" killers in his memoir "whoever fights monsters". It's a great read I'd recommend it. 

I do think gun control would limit the body count but the psychology of it will keep people killing. I think that the internet itself is the biggest culprit in the fashion trend of mass shootings. Not guns, not political motivations, not Donald Trump although all of those things, with the exception of trump, play a role. The ability for friendless recluses to meet other people who already share their dark fantasy worlds in which they already live, to egg them on is the most prominent factor. 

 

Good point on the almost glamorization of these monsters by the news. Ben Shapiro over at the Daily Wire was one of the first to notice this in media and was also one of the first to prohibit his outlet from mentioning these shooters by name; several other news outlets have done the same. But, of course, most MSM still do because they want the ratings. It's pretty disgusting.

As for the psychological aspect of gun violence, I think Joe Rogan said it best on his podcast a few years back when he said that America doesn't have a gun issue, it has a mental health issue. Guns are just the medium that these nutbags are using to express their mental illnesses, unfortunately.

[Clevfan4life]

15 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

The hypocrisy by many of the more conservative members of this board on this subject is frankly disgusting and pretty cowardly.

☕👍

[The Cysko Kid]

11 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

In an ideal world, it should. And it should be like that, regardless of where these shooters fall on the political spectrum. 

However, it hasn't played out that way here on the board (which is also a microcosm for our country at large). Every time Antifa committed violence, it was labeled as leftie/left-wing/liberal/libtard, etc, violence by right-wing posters on here. Or, blame was placed on Obama or another left-leaning politician, and none of the right-wingers on here had a problem calling it that.

But, now that the ones pulling the trigger are politically to the right, now all of a sudden it's taboo to say that political rhetoric is fueling violence and that people take exception to it being called right wing violence (not including you Cysko; as far as I know, you haven't claimed such of others in the past). The hypocrisy by many of the more conservative members of this board on this subject is frankly disgusting and pretty cowardly.

I just that if you insist on pointing fingers every time something happens it becomes a roadblock to any genuine solution. It becomes an exercise in blaming people who aren't actually responsible for actions perpetrated by people they share some similarities with. I do believe that very thing more than any other has fueled the "white supremacist" problem that's currently a thing. When it's in vogue to tell one group of people that they're purely awful and responsible for all the evils of the world sooner or later they're going to start acting the part.

[The Cysko Kid]

And yes I'm fully aware the right similarly demonizes immigrants but specifically Latin immigrants which has only had the effect of making them more abrasive in their defiance of immigration laws.