Tiamat's 2019 training camp observations, thoughts, ramblings (who the hell knows at this point?)

[Orion]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Higgy is more than solid. Might have legit fantasy value.

I don't give a rats ass about fantasy value .   -  just sayin'

[tiamat63]

1 minute ago, Orion said:

I don't give a rats ass about fantasy value .   -  just sayin'

Point being, I believe he'll be a bit beyond just a "solid" player.  He'll produce.  To the point where other players and fans will take notice.

[Unsympathetic]

If Corbett's not starting any time soon, how about getting a 4th, 5th from Minn or Seattle?

[tiamat63]

12 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

More than the night the Browns traded up to take Johnny Football? 

That was the night I almost became a Packers fan. 

Was asked to leave Smokey Bones in Mentor after (drunkenly) MF'ing everyone up and down the bar who cheered the pick.  Not my finest hour, but jokes on them - i was right.

 

12 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Callaway gives the Browns the ability to open up the top of the defense, his ability to produce is important. Maybe not vital, but important. 

Landry and Higgins are more the move-the-chain guys, and OBJ is a spectacular talent when he's actually on the field. Callaway gives the Browns explosiveness in the pass game. 

Callaway can be a vertical and YAC threat... If he actually catches the ball.

 

4 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I was listening to NFL Radio yesterday and they were discussion Njoku needing to improve his catching for balls coming in below the waste. They say he is excellent at getting open and catching anything high, but still drops the low ones in practice more often than not, especially on crossing routes over the middle. Hopefully Baker figures this out too and sends 'em high every time he's targeted.

I can see that.  But then again most players his size could be tagged the same.  Of course it helps that when Baker isn't right on he tends to put the ball a little high.  Benefits having receivers with a plus catch radius.

 

[tiamat63]

1 hour ago, Unsympathetic said:

If Corbett's not starting any time soon, how about getting a 4th, 5th from Minn or Seattle?

*shrugs*  the article in the other camp thread has Corbett projected as RG1.  Which, by some miracle happens, will be near a Cam Erving level head scratcher for me.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

13 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Callaway gives the Browns the ability to open up the top of the defense, his ability to produce is important. Maybe not vital, but important. 

Landry and Higgins are more the move-the-chain guys, and OBJ is a spectacular talent when he's actually on the field. Callaway gives the Browns explosiveness in the pass game. 

Higgins and Landry have reliable hands, and OBJ is spectacular.. I am aware. 

Anybody can get sidelined. AC11 is the next man up, so his development and catching the damn ball is very important

[Comeonman]

7 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

*shrugs*  the article in the other camp thread has Corbett projected as RG1.  Which, by some miracle happens, will be near a Cam Erving level head scratcher for me.

Please make it stop! Too many names in this thread like Coleman, Erving and JF!

[Canton Mike]

7 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Higgins and Landry have reliable hands, and OBJ is spectacular.. I am aware. 

Anybody can get sidelined. AC11 is the next man up, so his development and catching the damn ball is very important

I think the kid will be fine. Apparently came to camp a little out of shape, but he's surrounded by real PROS in the WR room, so I feel he'll mature & come around.

Mike

[tiamat63]

This has nothing to do with training camp but it's some insight for those interested in getting to understand football scheme a lot more. There are some intermediate and higher level concepts being explained here, but done so in a way that will make sense.   Added Bonus: The man doing the breakdown is one of my all time favorite Buckeye DB's (Only behind Chris Gamble) and one of my favorite safeties in the NFL - Malcolm Jenkins. 

 

 

The discussion starting at 0:15 with "inverted half'. Inverted is when the safeties stack down low and the corners are now back or drop into the hash responsibility that was previously the safeties job.   Inverted cover 2 was a staple for the Steelers during most of the 2000's.  Remember Larry Fitz roasting their secondary to put the Cardinals ahead in the SuperBowl? IIRC, that was off inverted cover 2.                  This is a good lesson in how defenses prioritize route threats - I.E. which route combinations they're expecting vs what the defense shows.  In this case, MJ says he's looking to take away the '7'... universally that's known as a flag or bench route To Diggs.

If you're wondering why the defensive alignment and zone drop to outside leverage by the safety...?   it's to help the DB over the top focus on playing vertical and inside breaking routes without worrying about being beaten to the outside boundary - because his defensive help, in this case Malcolm, is there. 

 

Just a great clip all around from one of my all time favorites.  Very much worth a watch even for higher level football I.Q.'s.    

[TexasAg1969]

That is one smart player there. Love how he bates throws to "open" receivers. It's an art form. There is a kid now going into 10th grade here who is one of the most talented players I've ever seen and mostly plays QB. But at times he will come in as a CB. In a close game the other team's WR was making toast out of the normal CB for catch after catch all the way down the field, but when they got to the 10 this kid asked my son to put him in with the statement, "I'll take it from him and run it back for a TD coach." He put him in and it looked like he was beaten, but just as the QB started to let it fly he broke from deep behind the receiver, stepped in front as the ball got there and scored on a 100+ yd. TD. He was watching the eyes and the arm and as soon as the QB had reached that point of no return, just sprinted to the spot he knew it would be. Amazingly smart to set that QB up into throwing a "sure" TD.

BTW he loves OSU. I still get a word in about A&M when I go see him play though.😁

[Tour2ma]

On 7/31/2019 at 9:22 PM, Dutch Oven said:

More than the night the Browns traded up to take Johnny Football?

As soon as it was announced that we'd traded up I said, "Oh Fuck!"

[TexasAg1969]

33 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

As soon as it was announced that we'd traded up I said, "Oh Fuck!"

With the first pick in the 2017 NFL draft the Cleveland Browns take from Texas A&M..............................

With the first pick in the 2018 NFL draft the Cleveland Browns take from Oklahoma................................

I think I'm cured now. 🤗🤣

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

This rookie defense seems to be loaded. Greedy, Redwine, Wilson, Taki.. who knows which one will step in and make an impact.

[tiamat63]

On that drive and from the notes.

- Kush your RG

- Hilliard looks solid

- Higgy is THE MAN.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

Posted in the game day thread but Chad Thomas looked explosive with a QB pressures and a QB hit on one drive

[tiamat63]

8 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Posted in the game day thread but Chad Thomas looked explosive with a QB pressures and a QB hit on one drive

Also something in camp that was evident in drills.  Didnt see it in 11's though. So that was a nice surprise.

[TexasAg1969]

On 8/5/2019 at 2:03 PM, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

This rookie defense seems to be loaded. Greedy, Redwine, Wilson, Taki.. who knows which one will step in and make an impact.

It's Wilson. After watching his play I have no doubt. He was my hope for 3rd round pick and I could not believe he was still there for us in the 5th. STEAL! 

Taki now has a lot to prove and that's a great motivator for real competitors.👍

[tiamat63]

Warning: long winded post incoming.

First and foremost, I just saw that this thread was near 2100 views.  Can't say enough on how much I appreciate you guys taking the time to read, digest and respond to my content.  It does, and will continue to mean, a great deal to me. 

So I'm going to offer my thoughts on the pre-season games in this thread.  Aside from the random chime-ins during the regular season game threads, most of my work is going to be focused elsewhere.  (More on that later)

 

Going to toot my own horn here just a little Buuuuuut - the early things I feel I hit on from my time at camp.

- Kush/Kalis as the 1a 1b guards 

- Higgins is and will be The Man.

- Wanted early tempo for Baker. Got it right off rip with the opening drive. I didn't expect it to be THAT early.

- Sans fumble Hilliard will reward the faith Dorsey has shown in him as a runner and pass catcher.

- Callaway dropping down the depth chart

- Chad Thomas.  Saw the potential in drills but he had a couple flashes last night.  Unexpected and refreshing.

- Corbett is....  Well, who he is.

- Chris Smith is making this roster.

 

From last night: 

Please, keep Guiseppi.  The way the team and the fans responded to him was special.  That's the kind of thing that bonds men in the locker room and endears the fans to the players.

We need more net PR yards.  Better field position leads to offensive production, helps setup easier situations for our still shakey kicking game and even the defense as well when we punt or have a turnover.  The rest of pre-season will be huge for the kid, but the door is open.

- Callaway either wasn't giving full stride when vertical or he has a tweaked hammy.  A couple nice sideline catches though. The almost TD probably would have been a TD had the initial call not be ruled incomplete.  But my concern with him will always be the concern I had with Corey Coleman... The routine catches.

- Deveroe Lawrence.  That boy quick.  But don't get too excited.  The Skins Oline isnt very good and his sack was a complete bust in protection. When you get a back on a 290lb lineman, then somebody has fucked up somewhere.

- Mack Wilson.  Good sideline to sideline range and feel for the route in front of him.  His eyes take him to the ball and he doesn't have much wasted motion or false steps. Not crowning him breakout but im excited for more.

Wilks - won't confirm until Wednesday when the tape is out. But i feel like i saw a great deal of cover 4.  Felt Vic Fangio-esque. The Bears (now Denver) played a fair amount of pattern matching C4 from various looks.   If that is Wilks staple, then it explains the type of player our staff has targetted for safety. Converted corners such as Randall and Red wine.

 

- Myles may actually kill a man on the field. Im not joking.  

- Coley and Smith at 2nd team is what this team needs and shows the talent increase.   Our depth is finally shaping into NFL quality talent.

- without seeing the tape, Greedy thought it was either cover 2 or 6 to his side as the roll/flat defender.   It wasn't and that's what you get - a rookie whose head is moving a mile a minute and still learning to make the calls second nature during live action.

 

More on the defense when the coaches tape is available.

 

 

[jrb12711]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

 

- Myles may actually kill a man on the field. Im not joking.  

Honestly, right there at the beginning when he just blew by the tackle (who could only hold him lest get Keenum murdered) I just thought to myself "that's not fair". He's going to cost us a few off sides calls, but I feel you on this one. Very JJ Watt esque out there.

[ATOM]

1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

Better field position leads to offensive production, helps setup easier situations for our still shakey kicking game and even the defense as well when we punt or have a turnover.  The rest of pre-season will be huge for the kid, but the door is open

so true remember how cribbs gave D.A great field position and actually made him look good ? just think what Guiseppi could do for a real QB

[Canton Mike]

4 hours ago, ATOM said:

so true remember how cribbs gave D.A great field position and actually made him look good ? just think what Guiseppi could do for a real QB

Yeah & the absence of "block in the back" calls will help as well.

Mike

[tiamat63]

It's Friday, so been listening to 70's funk (and for my dude Myles Garrett - a touch of Marvin Gaye) for the last couple hours while I try to go over this clip with a fine tooth comb.  Music always helped me focus. And if you can't get down to some Marvin, then we just can't be friends.      Anywho,  Coaches tape doesn't usually hit NFL.com until Wedesday and I'm excited.  So here's what I've got so far and the first drive was really everything I wanted it to be between what I saw at camp(s) and it translating to the field.

 

 

@ 0:03 

For those who have followed things I've spoken about, you'll remember my carrying on about Dorsey wanting players either speed or bigger bodied that provided YAC opportunities.  One of the big staples for this offense from last year, given the receiving abilities of our RB's, is the slant flat combo... mostly to the boundary.   I spoke about this at length.     Welp, the 2019 season is upon us, my friends.  Guess what Kitchens opened up with for Baker and tempo?      Exactly!      Instead of that being Jalen Strong running the X receiver, that's a much quicker ODB in regular season.    YAC, YAC, YAC.

@ 0:08.    Just in this thread I said our ideal formation for 11 personnel is the gun trips trey with (depending on how the Brownies coaches label the spots) our Y and Z receivers being off the LOS.   I posted a sample look from the Vince Young Texas days.    I also said it works because Njoku working on his strength to get off the line means backers and safeties will think twice about getting into his face without chip help from the line.        Well...there it is.

In that play sequence, I count Baker going through 3 reads.   Eyeing the seam and outside vertical from the bottom of the screen,  moving to Njoku, seeing the double on David and then understanding that the double means the zone underneath has been voided by the linebacker.    Finally hitting the outlet option with Chubb on the delay release.     This, Browns faithful, is good QB'ing.  Quick, decisive, smart.   Coming off the primary, to the secondary and then the third option as coverage has dictated.  All while drifting away from the edge defender that Robinson was working to ride out wide.  (Hubbard needs to watch that potential early flinch though)      For all the talk of ODB and Landry opening things up for Higgy and Njoku,  this is about the best example you're going to get of our TE's opening up the underneath, checkdowns and designed screen game for the RB's.    

@ 0:30 

Hubbard with, what should be, another false start.    Now I'm starting to worry about our RT situation.    But it is telling the amount of empty protections this coaching staff showed early.  They believe Baker can win with quick decisions, checks at the line, receivers winning the pattern and Bakers mobility.

@0:46    The Throw. 

For as brilliant as this play was, I'll be real... it's not something I want to see more of through the course of the grind that is a full football season.   Over the duration of what was a very quick drive, this verticals/divide and driving the ball downfield was the theme.   And this looks like cover 3 to my eye.  This is putting the safety - #30, in a hell of a bind.  Because he has to deal with helping down the seam on Njoku.   Something I mentioned this coaching staff looked to be big believers in during camp - attacking the seams with the bigger bodies.   He takes a few steps towards David only to see his leverage carrying him to the opposite hash, Higgy sees it and starts bending his route back inside.   It's an insane throw into a ridiculous window that requires a QB with the arm, ballsy enough to pull the trigger, and having a receiver he trusts that can elevate while shielding off the backside corner and protecting himself at the same time.       Hollywood takes a pretty big shot because of it.   In reality, the safety was beat the whole time.  The Oline held up nicely giving Baker a clean pocket, so moving forward what you're going to want is to allow the extra half second protection has afforded your QB, to give Rashard the time to square this route at the top and run it between the goal posts.

It's a smarter, safer and less injury prone throw/catch combo.     A hell of a throw and catch, I grant them that.  There will be times these types of things will have to happen to secure a TD.  But you want to minimize that, especially in the pre-season where it simply doesn't count towards your record.  But that is the foundation work into perfecting that type of concept. The Mayfield/Hollywood connection scored there... imagine what it will look like in another month when the pace it just a touch better?   Good God... insanity.

 

 

 

 

[gumby73]

11 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

A)- Callaway either wasn't giving full stride when vertical or he has a tweaked hammy.  A couple nice sideline catches though. The almost TD probably would have been a TD had the initial call not be ruled incomplete.  But my concern with him will always be the concern I had with Corey Coleman... The routine catches.

B)- Deveroe Lawrence.  That boy quick.  But don't get too excited.  The Skins Oline isnt very good and his sack was a complete bust in protection. When you get a back on a 290lb lineman, then somebody has fucked up somewhere.

C)- Mack Wilson.  Good sideline to sideline range and feel for the route in front of him.  His eyes take him to the ball and he doesn't have much wasted motion or false steps. Not crowning him breakout but im excited for more.

A) being reported Callaway played through a high ankle sprain, happened sometime in 1st half..                                                                                                                                                                        B.) we get to see one of the best OL's at Colts this week..am willing wait, but..                                                                                                                                                                                                    C)Watch the angles that Mack takes to ball where Taki will sometimes guess the gap..Man has Wilson been pushing some iron..I don't remember him being that built up in crimson..nor the arm reach that am seeing..we might have stole a 5th..Mack with Schobert could get fun to watch                       

 

[TexasAg1969]

I was impressed with Lawrence. We'll see how he does over the next few games.

[tiamat63]

On 7/31/2019 at 6:55 PM, tiamat63 said:

 

- 11 Personnel.   Really nothing more to say.  You're going to see this team utilize space in a way it hasn't done in a long time and they'll do so in a variety of ways.    

 

Per PFF...

 

 

[Tour2ma]

17 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

They believe Baker can win with quick decisions, checks at the line, receivers winning the pattern and Bakers mobility.

Ding Ding Ding!!! Baker is our OL's best friend.

17 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

And if you can't get down to some Marvin, then we just can't be friends. 

Plus we need "The Ecology Song" now more than ever...

 

EDIT: ... and never forget to mix in some Rev. Al Green...

[tiamat63]

13 hours ago, gumby73 said:

A) being reported Callaway played through a high ankle sprain, happened sometime in 1st half..                                                                                                                                                                        B.) we get to see one of the best OL's at Colts this week..am willing wait, but..                                                                                                                                                                                                    C)Watch the angles that Mack takes to ball where Taki will sometimes guess the gap..Man has Wilson been pushing some iron..I don't remember him being that built up in crimson..nor the arm reach that am seeing..we might have stole a 5th..Mack with Schobert could get fun to watch                       

 

High Ankle is a bitch because they tend to linger.  That is far more of an issue than many believe.

At this point, Taki is a situational player.  Mostly used for a specific role of either pressure or dropping with a pre-determined assignment.  The game is moving a bit too fast for him and you can almost see his head spin at times.

Mack is a pretty big linebacker and his ability to track the RB, stay above the pick, jump while turning his hips and landing softly is beyond impressive.   A great athlete combined with a natural football player is a gift.

42 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Ding Ding Ding!!! Baker is our OL's best friend.

Plus we need "The Ecology Song" now more than ever...

 

EDIT: ... and never forget to mix in some Rev. Al Green...

 

Baker and the running game should make them adequate for this year.  But eventually Hubbard will need to be addressed.

Had some of The Rev in there.  You can't not* remind the people - just let us stay together. 

[Clevfan4life]

13 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I was impressed with Lawrence. We'll see how he does over the next few games.

so was i....however those were 2nd team reps. He was a nonfactor last year and that prob had something to do with jobi breaking down...staff didnt trust our rotation enough. The fact we tried to get mccoy and daniels should be a clear msg to the DT rotation that its time....