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tiamat63

Tiamat's 2019 training camp observations, thoughts, ramblings (who the hell knows at this point?)

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Here's how the notepad looks from the top down.

Forbes - needs a little work on his knee bend, leg drive and lower strength.   His height, arm length and weight do make him look like a center candidate.  You can tell his arms are shorter than the other tackles just by standing next to them.   The 1 on 1 pass pro snaps I saw real quick, he took away the outside then worked his ass off to anchor back in.   But he held vs the 2nd team line at tackle drills.

Robinson - looks like he trimmed just a bit.  Maybe 10lbs.  You can see it in the way he walks without having to see the snaps.   Perhaps seeing the film vs speed rushers and adjusting/improving his body to the game?

Kush - Natural pad level because of his height.  Looked like the 1st team RG today at times.

Lamm - is an emerging RT option and was 2nd team from what I saw.  Got most of his work there and honestly, looked a pinch better than Hubbard a times.

Coach Campen - I like him.  Hands on and has a bit of fire when he's down lown with his position group.  The raw tools for this line need work but the Oline, coaching wise, is in good hands with him.  If they are underwhelming, it will be because of the (lack of) talent.

Baker was off a bit early in warmups.  Missed some passes high.    Also, I get that he has moments of brilliance but there were some throws today that just didn't need to be made.  I understand you have to live with the good and bad, but avoiding the Farve mentality was something I was praying for.

Corbett - I just don't know about this kid.  He saw some looks at center and in the 1 on 1 drills.   I have no idea how he fits into this line aside from a rotational backup.  I don't see full time starter material at any position he has played so far.   Possible Center candidate?

Mary Kay - spent more time bullshitting and staring at her phone than paying attention to practice.  At least, for the first 45 minutes or so that I was in proximity to her.

Punt return unit - at the moment, not very inspiring.  Couple fumbles - and Callaway is a name that came to mind as a PR man buuuuuut...

Callaway - TD drop on a pretty pass to the corner.   Wasn't ideal ball placement and he had to elevate just a little, but should be a routine catch for a professional athlete.  Hands, hands, hands.   Can't have you dropping shit that ends up in the bread basket.  Eventually it will come back to bite you.

 

Saw some RPO looks.  Or possibly the offensive incorporating more quick hitting alert read off of the gun runs.   Good news is, the 2 that I saw went to the man Baker has developed the chemistry with - Higgy.   Last year and the off season work now should hopefully pay dividends on ball placement and sight adjustments post/pre snap.

Saw a decent amount of cross formation movement from slot receivers.  Again, the man was Higgy when I saw.   Keep that little theme in mind heading into this season.

Hilliard - running low, showing patience, burst and staying behind his pads. Had a nice jump cut to the B gap, planted his foot and got upfield for an 8 yard gain early.   Between Chubb and him, running game should be pretty solid to open the year.  I don't have many, if any, concerns about those two.

2nd team Oline won inside on the 2nd team dline.  And they did it with some frequency.     Coley had a nice move in the 11's but that unit is going to need some work.   At times though, I couldn't help but wonder if the interior D was holding back a bit?  On the edge there isn't as much contact and unless you've been in the middle of those piles, you don't fully appreciate how easy it is to get fucked up by something stupid.

Kalis - thought he was the starting RG at first until I saw the number.  Took good volume of 2nd string snaps and I think that helped with the interior wins I saw vs the 2nd team Dline.

Baker - still needs to work on his drive out from the back foot under center and making the pivot foot a bit lighter/smoother with a more immediate turn.    See; Brady, Tom.     But better than what I initially remember seeing from last season.

Greedy - tall, long arms, lean.  Still needs to work on adding upper strength and good mass.  Not much, mind you.  But he's still very young so that will come in time.  Has a natural frame that allows him to sit inside on receivers, squeeze them to the boundary than box out with height and length.  He did it a couple times to Callaway vertically and you can tell it caught Antonio off guard.   But I did see that glimpse of a DB attitude which was nice to see.       Remember - I called (will still gladly call) Justin Gilbert a pussy.  It showed on the field and in practice.   Greedy doesn't strike me as a Gilbert clone in mentality.  At least, not for the moment he doesn't.

Chris Smith - mostly looked like the 2nd team weakside end.  Had a great bull rush in 1 on 1's but beyond that it was ho hum day from him.

A lot of odd/out breaking routes from the #2's in formation.  Coaches believe Baker has the accuracy and we have the receivers to continuously attack the perimeter.  I'm fine with it.  Plus it avoids the middle of the field and that's the place Baker tends to get into trouble so far.

#99 - Devaroe Lawrence?  Left the field early.  Look like he tweaked his shoulder.  But no real injuries beyond that it looked like.

Linebackers -  miiiiiiiiiiiiight still be an issue in the running game.  Let me say this - from what I saw today, if I want to beat this defense, I'm going to run right at them.  Fuck the runs outside, I'll avoid Myles and at times Vernon. I want to test your manhood.  ISO, traps, IZ, power, whatever.   I'll work at Jobi until he's spelled, maybe somehow combo Sheldon and then sprinkle in a lead afterwards.   Because I don't see the nasty, downhill enforcer on this team that is going to set the tone between the tackles.    And week 1 vs 6'3 240lb Derrick Henry.   That is a fantasy and football matchup I'm personally going to avoid for the moment re; Browns defense.  

 

Chad Thomas - for the tweet I posted about him, he jumped offsides twice other times.  You see physical gifts and it's not hard to tell when he's out there.   I'm just hoping the physical meets the mental and we have a player that can contribute good minutes.  The spin move he put on Hubbard was filthy.   Like, the kid CAN do it.   Doing it consistently and when it's full team live fire though?   We'll see.    But Garrett's comments on Wilks letting the pass rushers do their thing and find their moves?   Looks like some early truth to that.

 

Hubbard - won a couple times vs Vernon when they were matched up.  Quite handily to the outside too.    I think he struggles against edge rushers with length.  The compact bodies, such as Vernon, make it easier to win against when you land that initial punch. 

Watching the DB's - Not a fan of some of the off coverage I saw.  At times I felt it was too easy for receivers to get into their routes.  Granted I understand Wilks reasoning, but I'm just old school yet at the same time, new school.  You have to beat the QB AND the receivers today.    But we gave up a couple passes with CB's playing off, dropping to a low hip and then peaking back inside (Greedy, I'm looking at you)

At this point - I just caught wind of the conversation behind me.  These two dudes were gossiping the entire time like catty bitches in the coffeeshop.  When I finally took a moment away from the field when the 1st and 2nd team swapped out, they were going on about being enlightened through Jesus Christ - but went on to the topic of the strippers they've hooked up with.   Either way,  take your asses elsewhere if you're not going to appreciate or even watch what's happening on the field.

Great read - Baker had a great ball fake and a nice read outside on the deepo (deep post) which he dropped over the top for a TD.    Couldn't tell the DB in primary though. Too many people with their hands up going nuts.    BUT It was Callaway that caught the pass.      So a nice redemption from earlier.   But you need to land the contested stuff. Separates the good from great.

The offense - towards the end had the 2 minute drill which the offense won and capped with a TD.   Honestly it was the most in sync (90's boy band joke here) they looked all day.  I feel like some tempo at the right times will really go a long way towards helping this team when the regular season hits.    Should the rapport keep building with the receivers and the coaches increase their trust with Baker making more changes at the line, it can only help to have another weapon in the arsenal.

 

That's what I have for the moment.  I didn't pay a shit ton of attention to the two receivers you're most likely asking about because they don't warrant the attention IMHO right now. I know what they bring to the table.    The in house, home grown talent, is what I focused on most today.   

 

Overall.  More talent than last year but with question marks as to how and where it all fits.     My concerns mostly rest with the Oline and the linebackers.   But feeling pretty good about most everyone else sans the WR's and edge rushers - That is where this team is clearly head and shoulders above most so I and you should feel great about them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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That's a awesome camp report tia. thanks for the time involved..correct-e-mundo on MKC..her 1st tweet came about a hour in, on Cleveland.com. I was getting more from your post here, flipping back & forth..thanks again..digest time 

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I have a little more but it's mostly extensions on what I've posted. Just thoughts that I'm kicking around on the 'why' of what I saw.  More on that later.

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Appreciate the recognition btw boys. It means a lot.  Hoping to make at least one more camp before season starts. Just been busy along with a football side project I'm wanting to share with the board when it's ready.   Also more on that later.

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23 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

At this point - I just caught wind of the conversation behind me. 

LMAO!!! Did you put them in touch with MKC?

 

Thanks for the OL feast.

USA Today article is out "gushing" about Robinson's improved "tech". Based on the two clips in the article I have to ask, "What 'tech'?" and "Who are these writers?"

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/27/greg-robinsons-technical-progress-evident-in-browns-camp/

  • Kicks his left foot back at the snap, but does not no slide the right foot.
  • Every move after that is a hop!
  • Topside? Lotta grabbing... and not of the good, inside variety.

Garrett is either a chump or wasn't trying... my $$$ is on the latter. Any DE worth his salt catches a hopping OT in mid-air and plants him on his ass.

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On 7/27/2019 at 2:51 PM, tiamat63 said:

 

At this point - I just caught wind of the conversation behind me.  These two dudes were gossiping the entire time like catty bitches in the coffeeshop.  When I finally took a moment away from the field when the 1st and 2nd team swapped out, they were going on about being enlightened through Jesus Christ - but went on to the topic of the strippers they've hooked up with.   Either way,  take your asses elsewhere if you're not going to appreciate or even watch what's happening on the field.

 

u know where you've seen that "exact" mind dizzying  hypocrisy....those were browns board vets guaranteed.

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23 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

u know where you've seen that "exact" mind dizzying  hypocrisy....those were browns polyboard vets guaranteed.

FIFY

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3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

LMAO!!! Did you put them in touch with MKC?

 

Thanks for the OL feast.

USA Today article is out "gushing" about Robinson's improved "tech". Based on the two clips in the article I have to ask, "What 'tech'?" and "Who are these writers?"

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/27/greg-robinsons-technical-progress-evident-in-browns-camp/

  • Kicks his left foot back at the snap, but does not no slide the right foot.
  • Every move after that is a hop!
  • Topside? Lotta grabbing... and not of the good, inside variety.

Garrett is either a chump or wasn't trying... my $$$ is on the latter. Any DE worth his salt catches a hopping OT in mid-air and plants him on his ass.

I didn't take a long look but aside from looking a bit lighter, I didn't see anything that would blow the doors off my hinges in terms of "tech improvement".    The kid is who he is at this point.

 

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3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

FIFY

yeah i get it but u gotta know most of those guys at the poly board are alts of the vets here. 

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Good stuff, thanks. You probably noticed Avery is pretty much a fulltime lineman now I assume. Edit: Nevermind, I think he was out.

That's a nice motor to call on for nascar packages where Garrett slides down. Avery has a chance to make huge leaps this year since he can concentrate solely on line play with hybrid opportunities here and there to drop into coverage. 

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9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

LMAO!!! Did you put them in touch with MKC?

 

Thanks for the OL feast.

USA Today article is out "gushing" about Robinson's improved "tech". Based on the two clips in the article I have to ask, "What 'tech'?" and "Who are these writers?"

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/27/greg-robinsons-technical-progress-evident-in-browns-camp/

  • Kicks his left foot back at the snap, but does not no slide the right foot.
  • Every move after that is a hop!
  • Topside? Lotta grabbing... and not of the good, inside variety.

Garrett is either a chump or wasn't trying... my $$$ is on the latter. Any DE worth his salt catches a hopping OT in mid-air and plants him on his ass.

I feel like l watched both clips multiple times trying to see what you see, but not sure l do. I saw more of a gallop with his feet. Right left, right left, etc. In the first clip maybe l saw a point where both feet were in the air at the same time when Myles was pulling off spin move number two.

In clip 2 l saw him lose his base when his right foot went down near his left foot, but he regained it with a push off with the right hand to Myles’ gut and got his right foot back in place.

I’m not sure any of this equates to “better technique”, but l’ve always felt Robinson’s main bugaboo was a lack of tenacity. 

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6 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

I feel like l watched both clips multiple times trying to see what you see, but not sure l do. I saw more of a gallop with his feet. Right left, right left, etc. In the first clip maybe l saw a point where both feet were in the air at the same time when Myles was pulling off spin move number two.

In clip 2 l saw him lose his base when his right foot went down near his left foot, but he regained it with a push off with the right hand to Myles’ gut and got his right foot back in place.

I’m not sure any of this equates to “better technique”, but l’ve always felt Robinson’s main bugaboo was a lack of tenacity. 

I moved it to the big screen for a closer look and Robinson would have been called for two holds (By the jersey) with his left hand around the back of Myles' right shoulder, first as Myles moves to R's left and second as he spins around right and you clearly see the hold to the back of the jersey. But of course that is typical of how people try to stop Myles, so it's good training. At least he didn't tackle him by his neck like everyone else gets away with.😁

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10 hours ago, Riffer X said:

Good stuff, thanks. You probably noticed Avery is pretty much a fulltime lineman now I assume. Edit: Nevermind, I think he was out.

That's a nice motor to call on for nascar packages where Garrett slides down. Avery has a chance to make huge leaps this year since he can concentrate solely on line play with hybrid opportunities here and there to drop into coverage. 

Nah, didnt notice that. But from what I've seen, he's spent time in 11's and drills between off ball and on ball backer.    His primary role will be as a pass rusher though.

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was listening to alex boone on a radio show last week..Boonie feels Kalis with his past history of just missing out on starting jobs, thinks this is where it's Kalis winning the RG spot..good to see you noted Kalis & he should be the leader of that OL2..wonder how freddie will play the RG spots during pre-season?

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4 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

was listening to alex boone on a radio show last week..Boonie feels Kalis with his past history of just missing out on starting jobs, thinks this is where it's Kalis winning the RG spot..good to see you noted Kalis & he should be the leader of that OL2..wonder how freddie will play the RG spots during pre-season?

1st and 3rd games pre-season will be telling on that battle.  Right now it's Kush and Kalis 1a/1b.   But the sooner it's solved - the better. 

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5 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

1st and 3rd games pre-season will be telling on that battle.  Right now it's Kush and Kalis 1a/1b.   But the sooner it's solved - the better. 

Did Corbett at least show any improvement in his facial hair game?

I saw Baker nuanced his with a porn ‘stache.

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9 minutes ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Did Corbett at least show any improvement in his facial hair game?

I saw Baker nuanced his with a porn ‘stache.

Didn't see. But given his lack of ability to standout on the line - I doubt he has embraced the beardage.

Baker is taking the Stewie approach. Stache' just above the upper lip.  Says you've been nude on camera before, but who gives a damn. Just tan Baker being tan Baker.

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Just also wanted to say thanks man. Succinct, good content is so hard to come by nowadays with the click bait BS of the world. Keep it comin.

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1 hour ago, jrb12711 said:

Just also wanted to say thanks man. Succinct, good content is so hard to come by nowadays with the click bait BS of the world. Keep it comin.

 

Thanks for the kind words man.  That's the type of content I believe in and what I'm going to pursue.   I don't need/want bait headlines.   Just honest assessments, thought out and educated opinions with insight that actually informs or challenges.  I simply don't trust the reporting of Zagura, MCC, Grossi, etc etc.      Too many details get overlooked.

 

I'm working on making it to camp Wednesday.  If I can, I'll have more to share.

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4 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 

Thanks for the kind words man.  That's the type of content I believe in and what I'm going to pursue.   I don't need/want bait headlines.   Just honest assessments, thought out and educated opinions with insight that actually informs or challenges.  I simply don't trust the reporting of Zagura, MCC, Grossi, etc etc.      Too many details get overlooked.

 

I'm working on making it to camp Wednesday.  If I can, I'll have more to share.

You may want to follow Jake Burns. 

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28 minutes ago, Riffer X said:

You may want to follow Jake Burns. 

No idea who that is.  But I'll look into it. 

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as if I wasn't happy enough before that Johnny didn't work out....seeing Bakers mustache, I mean god dammit thank god we drafted him. If johhny had worked out here we'd never have been privileged to see that stache…..

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I was hoping for some info about the competition for kr, but... that is probably tough to notice in training camps.

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7 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I was hoping for some info about the competition for kr, but... that is probably tough to notice in training camps.

There really wasn't any action fielding or returning kicks.    Punts, yes.  And when they were back there it wasn't ideal.  I counted 2 fumbles.

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1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

There really wasn't any action fielding or returning kicks.    Punts, yes.  And when they were back there it wasn't ideal.  I counted 2 fumbles.

I'd also be interested in the kicking battle if there's anything interesting. I have a bit of a vested interest as Greg is a friend of a friend. Gut feeling though is that Seibert makes the squad, seems unlikely to draft a kicker that high without planning to have him on the 53.

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20 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

I'd also be interested in the kicking battle if there's anything interesting. I have a bit of a vested interest as Greg is a friend of a friend. Gut feeling though is that Seibert makes the squad, seems unlikely to draft a kicker that high without planning to have him on the 53.

As Corbett has shown, being drafted by this FO doesn't mean playing.  Especially when there is another player that beats you out rather clearly.

That said, I am looking forward to the kicking battle as well and I have faith Freddie and Co. will pick the right man.

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5 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

As Corbett has shown, being drafted by this FO doesn't mean playing.  Especially when there is another player that beats you out rather clearly.

That said, I am looking forward to the kicking battle as well and I have faith Freddie and Co. will pick the right man.

Me too. Early reports (for what they are worth) said Seibert is less than 50% in kicks and Greg hasn't missed. I thought Greg got much stronger as the year went on too.

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