Browns LBs - key to the defense taking a giant leap forward?

[calfoxwc]

Pretty serious additions - major improvements to watch, over Collins. Sure, Collins was athletic, fast for a big lb,

but ...there were all sorts of times he seemed to ...not be into pro football. Late off snaps? does that make any sense at all?

all too often, he seemed to be just going to the motions to get a paycheck. The number of tackles etc, are amazing for a player who

seems to not care all that much. Just strange, to me. When the Patriots dump a guy, it's for a good reason.

Avery, Wilson and TakiTaki - play serious about the game football apparently. The new lbs could be the key to becoming a great defense

very quickly. I think TE's all too often used to have it too easy vs the Browns lb's before.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-2019-training-camp-preview-linebackers

[brownie4412]

Yes and No. I don't think it's any one particular player but more so the depth that's now available. Also the ability to actually convert 1st downs on offense is HUGE. I think the defense was better by leaps and bounds the moment Baker took over. The offense with Tyrod was flat out anemic and the defense never had time to catch a break.

[The Gipper]

Not sure that we can rely on a couple of rookies to make this defense top notch.   Not saying it cannot happen,   just that it is not likely.   For now its Schobert and Kirksey in the middle.

[calfoxwc]

this part was just about lb's, I'll have to watch for another eval of the new cb's and safety redwine.

just have to wait til training camp and the season to start.

it's tough.

Nice article on Greedy:

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/greedy-williams-has-already-established-himself-as-a-starter-with-the-cleveland-browns/95-fb15f3db-64b0-4344-8ed3-9723845f6f04

[Orion]

Yup.  Our LB'ers need to be taught to tackle this TC.  

Collins is a Patriot again.  He played well at times...but all too often looked like he got stuck on a shitty team and wasn't going to strain himself.

[Ibleedbrown]

13 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

Pretty serious additions - major improvements to watch, over Collins. Sure, Collins was athletic, fast for a big lb,

but ...there were all sorts of times he seemed to ...not be into pro football. Late off snaps? does that make any sense at all?

all too often, he seemed to be just going to the motions to get a paycheck. The number of tackles etc, are amazing for a player who

seems to not care all that much. Just strange, to me. When the Patriots dump a guy, it's for a good reason.

Avery, Wilson and TakiTaki - play serious about the game football apparently. The new lbs could be the key to becoming a great defense

very quickly. I think TE's all too often used to have it too easy vs the Browns lb's before.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-2019-training-camp-preview-linebackers

I think you’re on to something. It seemed like TEs and RBs catching passes down the middle killed us last year. Not sure if it was scheme or LB play or what, but it felt like too many drives were kept alive against us with plays like that.

[Clevfan4life]

not gonna listen to any sunshine till I see them in action. I'm real fuckin glad we got shobert and Kirksey at a minimum. We know we have a special hybrid in rush packages with Avery..but we don't know squat about the new guys. It's a complete question mark that will not be answered till opening day. My hope is our D line is so utterly beastly that the LB'ers can track relatively unperturbed to the ball. Im guessing/hoping because of our d line that teams will resort to blocking our LB'ers often with TE"s because the interior OL are preoccupied intensely by our front 4. 

[gumby73]

21 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

not gonna listen to any sunshine till I see them in action. I'm real fuckin glad we got shobert and Kirksey at a minimum. We know we have a special hybrid in rush packages with Avery..but we don't know squat about the new guys. It's a complete question mark that will not be answered till opening day. My hope is our D line is so utterly beastly that the LB'ers can track relatively unperturbed to the ball. Im guessing/hoping because of our d line that teams will resort to blocking our LB'ers often with TE"s because the interior OL are preoccupied intensely by our front 4. 

good post Cleve..Suh/Donald & Brocker carried the Rams to a pokers chance at a superbowl..but the Rams finished near the bottom against the run..Wilks will have to trust some young Lb'ers to show up on game days. It's surely going to take both units. 😎 we got fake brown & orange fans popping up everywhere  https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-ranks-all-32-pass-rush-units-ahead-of-the-2019-nfl-season   

[Tour2ma]

I continue to be amazed at how much shit Collins, arguably our most productive LB the past three years, gets.

 

As for the LB position... yes, it is key... but then I think it is always key.

For starters they are the de-facto QBs of the D. Then they are the mops that clean up any mess the DL creates. Then, more than any other position group have to balance great run D with great pass D. The latter including effective pressuring of the QB beginning with great disguise.

It's the most demanding room on the D-side... and the room that underachieved the most last season. If I had to name one area that must improve, it would be PAP recognition.

If our D is to go to the next level, then it falls on our LBs to take us there.

[TexasAg1969]

Game one and this is who we have to deal with. The new coach at Tenn realized halfway through the season exactly what I saw coming into the league, my favorite underutilized (until last year) player. Funny that they use that old Browns' term to describe him, Jim Brown. He will be the first test for this newly formed LB crew.

 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

The additon of Sheldon Richardson and Vernon have the Browns D-Line in the top 5 discussion. Add that to Larry Ogunjobi. DLine is the strength, imo.

I would rank our corners and secondary above the linebackers with Ward, Mitchell, Carrie, Greedy, D. Randall, and Eric Murray. That is a LOT of talent in the secondary.

I wouldn't expect much out of the rookie LBs right away, however; they are stepping into a welcoming situation with a bolstered defense.

[Canton Mike]

14 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Game one and this is who we have to deal with. The new coach at Tenn realized halfway through the season exactly what I saw coming into the league, my favorite underutilized (until last year) player. Funny that they use that old Browns' term to describe him, Jim Brown. He will be the first test for this newly formed LB crew.

 

Bill,

Don't ask me why, 'cuz it's just my gut feeling, but I didn't care for him coming into the NFL & I'm still not sold on Derick Henry. Time will tell.

Mike

[TexasAg1969]

11 hours ago, Canton Mike said:

Bill,

Don't ask me why, 'cuz it's just my gut feeling, but I didn't care for him coming into the NFL & I'm still not sold on Derick Henry. Time will tell.

Mike

Well I sure hope you don't become a believer when he plays the Browns 😵. Their coach figured out that he punishes people in the first half and then runs over them in the 2nd. That was exactly how he was used at Alabama. Very hard to keep tackling a 250 lb. back when he keeps up that 4.5 speed with power. It starts to hurt when you're tired. We need to get well ahead of them from the start so as to force them to pass only.

[Tour2ma]

Ag has been "blocking" for Henry for three years running... 😛

[The Gipper]

Back to the Linebackers.  Is it fair to say that this is the most up in the air unit on this team?   (Units being:  QB/RBs/TEs/WRs/OL/DL/DBs/LBs)

And does it seem that a lot of the Browns success for that unit must rely on the two rookies? 

Or, do you think we are solid with Gennard, Kirksey, Schobert?

[TexasAg1969]

2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Ag has been "blocking" for Henry for three years running... 😛

Yes I have and finally he has a coach who actually understands what he has and used him properly the 2nd half of the season. The other guy got replaced because he didn't get it.

Just saying if we are not properly prepared for this guy, he will kill us. But we have a Bama player coaching us and I guarantee he gets it. We will be prepared for a full game from Henry. I expect a lot of substitution to keep people fresh to handle what he brings.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Yes I have and finally he has a coach who actually understands what he has and used him properly the 2nd half of the season. The other guy got replaced because he didn't get it.

FYI...that coach that he has...Vrabel.   His dad coached football at my high school. 

Just saying if we are not properly prepared for this guy, he will kill us. But we have a Bama player coaching us and I guarantee he gets it. We will be prepared for a full game from Henry. I expect a lot of substitution to keep people fresh to handle what he brings.

Don't see how having a Bama guys means he gets it any more than if he were from anywhere else.  And if the Browns are not prepared for a full time game agains the the run...any decent RB would kill us.  This guy just happens to be the first guy they face.  Historically, the Browns have done far worse against the second man they will face:  L. Bell.

 

[gumby73]

Early camp LB insight from Burns..  https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2019/07/7f3f3658143355/6-insights-about-the-cleveland-browns-linebacker-situation.html   

[Bob806]

I'm heading up to camp this morning, and am curious about the LBs. Mack Wilson in particular.

It's pretty clear to me that the D is the key. If the Browns offense stays healthy, they should be able to put up points. 

 

[Unsympathetic]

Wilson was the best power5 LB in the draft in pass coverage last college season.. should translate to early PT for him given the gaping maw in that category for Kirksey.  Given that Kirksey's most positive PFF ratings against the pass came when he was used to rush the passer.. here's my early .02 suggesting that it's Kirksey who gives way to Wilson by midseason.

Schobert thru game10 last season - was pretty good at least at passD.

Here's hoping Joe's season3 could be good at both passpro and not missing tackles.. sometimes even on the same play.

[gumby73]

3 hours ago, Bob806 said:

I'm heading up to camp this morning, and am curious about the LBs. Mack Wilson in particular.

It's pretty clear to me that the D is the key. If the Browns offense stays healthy, they should be able to put up points. 

looking forward to your opinions on what you saw 👍 can't be any worse than our media! have fun

[Flugel]

On 7/22/2019 at 11:23 AM, Tour2ma said:

I continue to be amazed at how much shit Collins, arguably our most productive LB the past three years, gets.

 

As for the LB position... yes, it is key... but then I think it is always key.

For starters they are the de-facto QBs of the D. Then they are the mops that clean up any mess the DL creates. Then, more than any other position group have to balance great run D with great pass D. The latter including effective pressuring of the QB beginning with great disguise.

It's the most demanding room on the D-side... and the room that underachieved the most last season. If I had to name one area that must improve, it would be PAP recognition.

If our D is to go to the next level, then it falls on our LBs to take us there.

Well said!  I guess all those guys proclaiming Bill Belicheck knows exactly when to cut a guy loose started hanging out with ostriches the day Belicheck re-signed Collins. 

IMO, 1 thing people continued to lose sight of throughout last season was how banged up we were at LB.   When starters weren't out injured, they played injured.  As much as I want to say so what it's part of the game - this was a team coming off 0-16 football that couldn't afford the injury situation to our LBer Corp.  Adding insult to injury, that Defensive Line only had 1 reliable DE (Garrett) and 1 reliable DT (Ogunjobi) while the other DT and DE often got rag-dolled. The combination of Ogunjobi and Garrett pass rushing Brees and Roethlisberger from the same side seemed too good to be true; and we learned soon enough - it was.  People can blame the LBers all they want; but how many LBer Corps can succeed when offensive lines are consistently imposing their will on half of the defensive line in front of them?  

1-2 weeks before we played SD, Philip Rivers said Schobert was one of the toughest LBers to throw at.  He gave him oxymoronic praise in calling him a pain in the asss to challenge.  Understanding the MLB was responsible for both hook zones the last time they met in 2017 while Peppers was lining up at Safety in another area code - it was significant praise.  It only made sense that Schobert was injured and inactive when our defense failed to challenge Rivers in 2018. 

Just like RBs and QBs need a line in front of them in order to experience consistent success - the same holds true with our LBers.  If we can keep our front 4 healthy this year,  I think we have the personnel and experience to be successful at LBer.  I'm not saying they're ready to be superstars; but did NE have any Superstars at LBer when they won the SB last year?  No, they just had solid LBer play significantly helped by the dline in front of them. 

The additions the FO made this off season should help as well as getting some guys back healthy!

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Flugel
typo

[Flugel]

On 7/23/2019 at 6:43 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

Game one and this is who we have to deal with. The new coach at Tenn realized halfway through the season exactly what I saw coming into the league, my favorite underutilized (until last year) player. Funny that they use that old Browns' term to describe him, Jim Brown. He will be the first test for this newly formed LB crew.

 

It's a good thing he woke up before Rip Van Winkle and former 1st round disappointment - Chance Warmack .  People were beginning to wonder why he was having trouble getting more work load than Dion Lewis half way into his 3rd NFL season. Lucky for him, he contacted Eddie George for input/feedback of what was holding him back and he began playing like the RB TN expected him to be. 

Good thing too because your buddy Flugel was getting too fat to hide from his prediction Henry would be a great back considering they got him in round 2.

[Bob806]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

looking forward to your opinions on what you saw 👍 can't be any worse than our media! have fun

Well I got there around 950am, the place was absolutely packed!! So I wasn't as close as I'd like to be to the action. I didn't know the doors open at 830, so get there early if you go.

#9, QB from Purdue named Blough looked pretty good. Yeah, I know he's not seeing the field unless there's a disaster, but he's got a nice arm. The new punter in camp absolutely booms it (Gillam). 

So sadly, I didn't get a close look at the LBs like I wanted to. Too far away, blocked by rows of many people. 

 

[Clevfan4life]

On 7/22/2019 at 11:23 AM, Tour2ma said:

I continue to be amazed at how much shit Collins, arguably our most productive LB the past three years, gets

^^^^this

 

collins is back with NE....which speaks volumes.

[Flugel]

2 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

^^^^this

 

collins is back with NE....which speaks volumes.

Who needs to even watch football any more when Pro Football Focus (PFF) has all the answers?     Should I volunteer to tell Bill Belicheck how much time he's wasting especially when PFF has all the answers he can't possibly come up with himself?  Can you imagine some smart asss waterboy in NE correcting Belicheck with "That's not what Pro Football Focus says?" 

[gumby73]

7 minutes ago, Flugel said:

 Can you imagine some smart asss waterboy in NE correcting Belicheck with "That's not what Pro Football Focus says?" 

did someone call for the ...aka...the psi snatcher      

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

3 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

^^^^this

 

collins is back with NE....which speaks volumes.

Collins had moments, Like the alligator arm interception attempt very late in the game against the Raiders, that made it look like he was here for the check only. 

He was the most experienced and talented LB, he just didn’t play the hardest here.

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, Flugel said:

Good thing too because your buddy Flugel was getting too fat to hide from his prediction Henry would be a great back considering they got him in round 2.

Always good to have a foxhole buddy you can count on. I wanted Henry for the Browns from day 1. Smart of him to talk to a similar back like Eddy George.😁

But I also wanted one of either Michel or Chubb, so I'm happy.👍

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, Flugel said:

Who needs to even watch football any more when Pro Football Focus (PFF) has all the answers?     Should I volunteer to tell Bill Belicheck how much time he's wasting especially when PFF has all the answers he can't possibly come up with himself?  Can you imagine some smart asss waterboy in NE correcting Belicheck with "That's not what Pro Football Focus says?" 

^^^^^this