Are We Living In A Simulated Universe

[OldBrownsFan]

NO, I don't believe we are in the matrix but is is an interesting concept in that it parallels what the bible teaches about election,  pre-destination and  pre-ordination. If we have freewill yet God knows already the decisions we will make beforehand do we really have free will? Yes, I believe so. The bottom line though the bible teaches everything has already been mapped out beforehand. It took me a while to see it in the bible but now I know it. I used to think things were "written as we go" on a day to day basis and names were being added daily to the book of life spoke of in Revelation but now I see those names are already there and were known beforehand by God. If God is all knowing He would have to know already. So I don't believe in a simulated universe but I do believe things are mapped out beforehand. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/are-we-living-simulated-universe-here-s-what-scientists-say-ncna1026916

[Westside Steve]

I remember flirting with waitress decades ago (not quite cute enough to really go full out pretending she wasn't nuts) who said she truly believed in the theory, at least a similar Theory, to the one in Animal House where the professor tells everybody that one molecule and a fingernail might be an entire little universe. She said she believed we were all characters in someone's dream.

WSS

PS I know that has very little to do with your post. But hardcore Presbyterians Witnesses Etc think it's all planned out.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I brought up a similar subject not long ago.  

[bigbambo]

If the meaning of life was known, who would clean the port-a-potties?

[FairHooker11]

the simulated universe is in satans realm, 

faux science is the foundation

science fiction its entertainment wing

atheism is its religion

and the deceived know who they are - wait for it 

 

[FairHooker11]

Jesus said "I am the truth. the life and the way" John 14:6

there is still time to get in the Book of Life in this age of Grace 

[MLD Woody]

[Westside Steve]

So there on the 6th hole, if 450 yard par 4, Jesus picks his 3 wood and slices the ball about a hundred yards toward the other Fairway at which point in mid-air the ball is swallowed by a pelican that flies around the course three times regurgitating the ball right over the green and it bounces into the cup. Moses turns to the Saviour with a scowl and says "hey are we gonna play golf or are we gonna fuck around?"

WSS

[calfoxwc]

you just made that up?

[OldBrownsFan]

3 hours ago, FairHooker11 said:

Jesus said "I am the truth. the life and the way" John 14:6

there is still time to get in the Book of Life in this age of Grace 

One translation of the word truth is reality. Jesus is the way, the reality and the life. 

While one still has breath one has time but if God is all knowing he knows already who is in that book.

"The concept of the Book of Life seems to less be like this: “If you’re name isn’t in the Book, you can’t get into Heaven.” And more like this: “if you believe in Jesus, your name is in the Book!”

[OldBrownsFan]

3 hours ago, FairHooker11 said:

the simulated universe is in satans realm, 

faux science is the foundation

science fiction its entertainment wing

atheism is its religion

and the deceived know who they are - wait for it 

 

There are some who believe science holds all the answers if we are given enough time. Science has given us many answers but many of the great minds of science such as Einstein have taken science as far as it can go and then believe there is something outside of the science realm that explains creation. Another problem is science has also given us weapons of great destruction which we know will eventually be used. Not if but when. Even if science did hold all the answers (which I don't believe) we will destroy ourselves before we would ever get there and the more unstable countries like North Korea that have nuclear weapons with ballistic missiles the more likely it will happen.

[MLD Woody]

Creationism because Nukes

 

 

Alright

[calfoxwc]

So...

we DO have free will. That's all a major aspect of the Angelic Conflict playing out here on earth.

Would God know what choices we chose/will choose?

I don't know.  I imagine that if God always knows what we end up doing and knows all the choices we ever chose, it doesn't matter what we decide, which pretty much means we don't really have free choice at all - it's all predestined - so that is in conflict with free will.

   God is perfect, therefore, if he gave us free will, but knows everything we choose to do, etc... then how is that explanable?

The question is just another one of those questions we will only understand answers for, when we get to where we're goin one day.

 

[Clevfan4life]

this concept comes from plato...who prob got it from someone previous. In any case, its an "ancient" theory. Ofc it wasnt described back then in modern terms referencing digital technology....but it is a reiteration of the "mirror world" or "bad reflection".

theres prob something to it, at least to some extent.

[OldBrownsFan]

12 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

So...

we DO have free will. That's all a major aspect of the Angelic Conflict playing out here on earth.

Would God know what choices we chose/will choose?

I don't know.  I imagine that if God always knows what we end up doing and knows all the choices we ever chose, it doesn't matter what we decide, which pretty much means we don't really have free choice at all - it's all predestined - so that is in conflict with free will.

   God is perfect, therefore, if he gave us free will, but knows everything we choose to do, etc... then how is that explanable?

The question is just another one of those questions we will only understand answers for, when we get to where we're goin one day.

 

Those are good questions and right now we are only seeing through a dark glass like the Apostle Paul states.

Here is a good article:

https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-does-the-bible-teach-about-free-will-and-predestination/

[TexasAg1969]

21 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

So...

we DO have free will. That's all a major aspect of the Angelic Conflict playing out here on earth.

Would God know what choices we chose/will choose?

I don't know.  I imagine that if God always knows what we end up doing and knows all the choices we ever chose, it doesn't matter what we decide, which pretty much means we don't really have free choice at all - it's all predestined - so that is in conflict with free will.

   God is perfect, therefore, if he gave us free will, but knows everything we choose to do, etc... then how is that explanable?

The question is just another one of those questions we will only understand answers for, when we get to where we're goin one day.

 

Here is the flaw in predestination that you rightly have identified. If God controls all then he is truly a monster who in advance knows he fills Christian hell with those he chose to go there regardless of any efforts they may make not to be dragged down there kicking and screaming. That makes them victims of a cruel God who could have cut out the middleman (the universe) and just sent them straight there for the hell of it.

At the same time that takes away responsibility for poor choices we all make on earth through free will.

I chose not to believe in predestination and to take responsibility for my own mistakes made through free will.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Free will.  Not predestination.  

[OldBrownsFan]

9 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Here is the flaw in predestination that you rightly have identified. If God controls all then he is truly a monster who in advance knows he fills Christian hell with those he chose to go there regardless of any efforts they may make not to be dragged down there kicking and screaming. That makes them victims of a cruel God who could have cut out the middleman (the universe) and just sent them straight there for the hell of it.

At the same time that takes away responsibility for poor choices we all make on earth through free will.

I chose not to believe in predestination and to take responsibility for my own mistakes made through free will.

There are people who claim there is no hell because God would be a monster to create such a place therefore they say there is no hell. I believe there is a hell because the bible teaches it. I believe in predestination because the bible teaches it. We all have free will but to say God does not know the choices we will make means God is not really an all knowing God is He? The same argument could be used that God is a monster because He is omnipotent and yet he allows terrible sufferings on earth such as children with cancer etc.. Why would God allow such things if He could stop it? I have heard many atheists say that (the bible answers it ).  

I studied the bible for many years before I saw what election was spoken about in the bible. Election is not just a few isolated passages but all through the bible it speaks on this issue. I was surprised I hadn't seen it before. When I saw it I thought the same things you are thinking and to be honest it scared me thinking about it. I had never thought that way before. I won't try to reason something out though the bible teaches

I heard a minister give the best response to those believing election and predestination is wrong and unfair. He simply said the door to the ark is open, get in the boat, what is stopping you? Get in the boat.

https://www.gotquestions.org/unconditional-election.html

Maybe since I stirred up the beehive with this subject I will take on "eternal security" or "once saved always saved" theology as my next topic...uhm maybe later or maybe not. 😊

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

First time I've ever read anything like that.  So, if Hitler was predestined to go to Heaven, it doesn't matter what he did while alive?

[OldBrownsFan]

14 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

 

First time I've ever read anything like that.  So, if Hitler was predestined to go to Heaven, it doesn't matter what he did while alive?

I would think if Hitler were predestined to go to heaven he would have acted differently. If there is a part of hell that is hotter than other parts I am sure God has a place there for Hitler.

[Clevfan4life]

6 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

I would think if Hitler were predestined to go to heaven he would have acted differently. If there is a part of hell that is hotter than other parts I am sure God has a place there for Hitler.

unless ofc the biblical god is infact the gnostic demiurge in which case hitler prob had a decent time and is prob now back as some rich guy. The demiurge takes care of those that propagate his game

[TexasAg1969]

9 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

There are people who claim there is no hell because God would be a monster to create such a place therefore they say there is no hell. I believe there is a hell because the bible teaches it. I believe in predestination because the bible teaches it. We all have free will but to say God does not know the choices we will make means God is not really an all knowing God is He? The same argument could be used that God is a monster because He is omnipotent and yet he allows terrible sufferings on earth such as children with cancer etc.. Why would God allow such things if He could stop it? I have heard many atheists say that (the bible answers it ).  

I studied the bible for many years before I saw what election was spoken about in the bible. Election is not just a few isolated passages but all through the bible it speaks on this issue. I was surprised I hadn't seen it before. When I saw it I thought the same things you are thinking and to be honest it scared me thinking about it. I had never thought that way before. I won't try to reason something out though the bible teaches

I heard a minister give the best response to those believing election and predestination is wrong and unfair. He simply said the door to the ark is open, get in the boat, what is stopping you? Get in the boat.

https://www.gotquestions.org/unconditional-election.html

Maybe since I stirred up the beehive with this subject I will take on "eternal security" or "once saved always saved" theology as my next topic...uhm maybe later or maybe not. 😊

There is a lot that the bible teaches that comes from over 2000 years ago and much of it is just superstitious belief from people of those times. Predestination defies belief because it makes no sense whatsoever as I outlined above. Why even bother sending souls to earth if they are predestined one way or the other? You could also then logically say why even create sentient beings if you don't want them to use those reasoning powers.

[OldBrownsFan]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

There is a lot that the bible teaches that comes from over 2000 years ago and much of it is just superstitious belief from people of those times. Predestination defies belief because it makes no sense whatsoever as I outlined above. Why even bother sending souls to earth if they are predestined one way or the other? You could also then logically say why even create sentient beings if you don't want them to use those reasoning powers.

I saw the truth about election in the bible for myself. It was not some theory my church taught or I heard from anyone else. Now that I am google searching election I am seeing that every good  respected Christian commentary I've seen supports it. I've posted a few already. Here is another: from John MacArthur:

Is the Doctrine of Election Biblical?

What does it mean? 
Paul's song is essentially his reflection on the amazing truth that God "blessed us with every spiritual blessing...in Christ" (v. 3). And how did He bless us? "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" (Eph. 1:4).

God didn't draw straws; He didn't look down the corridor of time to see who would choose Him before He decided. Rather, by His sovereign will He chose who would be in the Body of Christ. The construction of the Greek verb for "chose" indicates God chose us for Himself. That means God acted totally independent of any outside influence. He made His choice totally apart from human will and purely on the basis of His sovereignty.

Jesus said to His disciples, "You did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16). And in the same Gospel, John wrote, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (1:12-13, italics mine). And Paul said, "But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth" (2 Thess. 2:13).

Those statements defining God's sovereign choice of believers are not in the Bible to cause controversy, as if God's election means sinners don't make decisions. Election does not exclude human responsibility or the necessity of each person to respond to the gospel by faith. Jesus said, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out" (John 6:37).

Admittedly the two concepts don't seem to go together. However, both are true separately, and we must accept them both by faith. You may not understand it, but rest assured — it's fully reconciled in the mind of God.

You must understand that your faith and salvation rest entirely on God's election (cf. Acts 13:48). And yet the day you came to Jesus Christ, you did so because of an internal desire — you did nothing against your will. But even that desire is God-given — He supplies the necessary faith so we can believe (Eph. 2:8).

Think about it — if your salvation depends on you, then praise to God is ridiculous. But, in truth, your praise to God is completely appropriate, because in forming the Body before the world began, He chose you by His sovereign decree apart from any of your works. The doctrine of election demonstrates God being God, exercising divine prerogatives. For that we must praise Him.

"But that's not fair!" 
Some are shocked to find that God didn't choose everyone to salvation. Jesus said, "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day" (John 6:39, italics mine). God the Father chose certain individuals to form a Body as a gift to Jesus Christ. Every believer is part of that love gift to Christ — a gift of the Father's love to His Son.

To those who say that is unjust, Paul answers: "What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion'" (Rom. 9:14-15).

So why does God still find fault in unrepentant sinners when He didn't choose them? Doesn't this deny human responsibility? Is it fair for God to still hold them accountable?

Paul answers all such questions with a rebuke — "who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, 'Why did you make me like this,' will it?" (v. 20). Does the clay jump up and ask the potter why it looks the way it does? Not at all.

Some believe that is terribly cold and calculating. But that is only one side of God's sovereign election. Paul continues in the next chapter by saying, "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved...for 'whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved'" (10:9,13).

How these two sides of God's truth — His sovereignty in choosing us (Rom. 9) and our responsibility to confess and believe (Rom. 10) — reconcile is impossible for us to understand fully. But Scripture declares both perspectives of salvation to be true (John 1:12-13). It's our duty to acknowledge both and joyfully accept them by faith.

Adapted from The Body Dynamic, © 1996 by John MacArthur. All rights reserved.

 

https://www.oneplace.com/ministries/grace-to-you/read/articles/is-the-doctrine-of-election-biblical-9025.html

 

 

[TexasAg1969]

All well and good that it comes from the Bible. But that doesn't mean it's true. Even in the quotes above it appears that if you confess then you get an out for not being chosen. So if you are predestined, how can that possibly work? That can only mean you were predestined to chose to confess. And once again we are in that circular argument about free will not really being free and once again there is no reason to put souls on earth who were predestined not to be chosen and not to confess. Just send them to hell and leave them out of the agony in between. That aspect of Christianity is non-sensical and requires us to suspend our intellectual abilities. And of my own free will I sinfully chose not to believe it. LOL!🤣

PS-and thank You God for giving me a brain and the free will to use it.😁

[OldBrownsFan]

40 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

All well and good that it comes from the Bible. But that doesn't mean it's true. Even in the quotes above it appears that if you confess then you get an out for not being chosen. So if you are predestined, how can that possibly work? That can only mean you were predestined to chose to confess. And once again we are in that circular argument about free will not really being free and once again there is no reason to put souls on earth who were predestined not to be chosen and not to confess. Just send them to hell and leave them out of the agony in between. That aspect of Christianity is non-sensical and requires us to suspend our intellectual abilities. And of my own free will I sinfully chose not to believe it. LOL!🤣

PS-and thank You God for giving me a brain and the free will to use it.😁

If you take away the bible from what you believe than what do you believe?  (I'm speaking from a Christian faith point of view). From my own article : "But that's not fair!" 
"Some are shocked to find that God didn't choose everyone to salvation."

That was my reaction when I realized what election meant in the bible. So what do I do just start taking a knife and cut out scriptures I don't like, I don't understand or agree with? God's thoughts are not my thoughts and His ways are not my ways 

Isaiah 55:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

⁸ “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.

*************

Here is a story from the bible where Jesus gave a hard teaching. Many of His "followers" could not understand what he was saying so they left Him. When Jesus talked about drinking His blood they knew the law forbade drinking blood so they "reasoned" it out and left. 

"Jesus ended His teaching opportunity by saying that one must also eat His flesh and drink His blood. It was a figurative expression referring to His future death. Here is Jesus’ statement,

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:53-54 (NASB)

Jesus’ point was that it is not enough to listen to His teachings and be impressed with His miracles. One must accept His physical death and His return to life in order to be forgiven of one’s sins. Otherwise, one will not live forever with God (John 6:53). This was a radical concept for anyone who was listening.

Paradoxical Statement

Many did not understand Jesus because they did not believe, and many did not believe because God the Father had not chosen them to believe. That is Jesus’ next statement. He repeated His previous message in John 6:37, 44 from a different perspective.

And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.” John 6:65 (NASB)                                                                                                                                                                                                 Notice that many of the crowd left Jesus. Today, this would be devastating to many preachers, teachers, churches and para-church organizations. To see “many” leave would be crushing. That would be total rejection. They would most likely wonder what they did wrong. Some modern day church leaders would start worrying about the church’s finances. Others would criticize the pastor and the other church leaders. Some would wonder if they should have avoided preaching or teaching certain things, because some doctrines offend people and motivate some to leave. But Jesus ignored such self-centered concerns. He spoke the truth and He realized some would respond negatively. Some did, and they left. This is an important example for every church leader and member. Never avoid the truth but teach it with grace and compassion. Our goal is not how many attend but being used by God to help people believe in Jesus and to grow spiritually.

   Read Jesus’ last statement again, “Do you want to go away also?” There is emotion in those words. I wonder how Jesus felt? “Will you leave too?”

   

Then Peter encouraged Jesus with these words,

Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” John 6:68-69 (NASB)

“To whom shall we go, Lord?” As far as Peter was concerned, there was no one else. We have believed! The Greek word for “believed” comes from the verb PISTEUO. It is in the perfect tense. This implies that the disciples had already believed and were still believing. This is the mark of a true follower of Jesus Christ. One who truly believes will never stop believing.

They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. 1 John 2:19 (NASB)

  https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-studies/life-of-christ-ministry-outside-of-galilee-mid-a-d-32/many-disciples-leave-jesus/                    

[TexasAg1969]

What can I say OBF, I'm a sinful cut and paste kind of guy. I cut out what I think is illogical and paste what makes sense in my own life. Considering the fact that I was given a reprieve in 1970 from what I thought for 100% certain one night was my last night on earth, I think I know what true thankfulness means to me. It's all been icing since. And I don't think He minds too much whatever errors I may make along the way as long as I stick to Jesus's last commandment to his followers in John 13:34. When my time comes (very shortly now) I plan to grin and say, "Well, how'd I do with those extra years?" He will know what I mean.😁

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Catholics stand on predestinaion and double predestination:

 

https://catholicexchange.com/church-say-predestination

[OldBrownsFan]

Just now, TexasAg1969 said:

What can I say OBF, I'm a sinful cut and paste kind of guy. I cut out what I think is illogical and paste what makes sense in my own life. Considering the fact that I was given a reprieve in 1970 from what I thought for 100% certain one night was my last night on earth, I think I know what true thankfulness means to me. It's all been icing since. And I don't think He minds too much whatever errors I may make along the way as long as I stick to Jesus's last commandment to his followers in John 13:34. When my time comes (very shortly now) I plan to grin and say, "Well, how'd I do with those extra years?" He will know what I mean.😁

The bottom line is this Tex. The Apostle Paul tells us we all must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. There are issues Christians do not agree on and that is why there are so many churches and different doctrines. For example I believe the story of Jonah was a true story but there are some Christians who believe the story is an allegory. Whether or not one believes it a true story or not is an issue that does not affect one's salvation. There are issues we can disagree on yet they are issues that do not affect one's salvation.  Jesus did not say we must believe in election (He just stated it as a fact) but He did state we must be born again. A person can be born again and disagree on what the bible teaches about election. 

[OldBrownsFan]

12 minutes ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Catholics stand on predestinaion and double predestination:

 

https://catholicexchange.com/church-say-predestination

Thanks for posting that. I did not know where the Catholic church stood on the issue.

[OldBrownsFan]

48 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

What can I say OBF, I'm a sinful cut and paste kind of guy. I cut out what I think is illogical and paste what makes sense in my own life. Considering the fact that I was given a reprieve in 1970 from what I thought for 100% certain one night was my last night on earth, I think I know what true thankfulness means to me. It's all been icing since. And I don't think He minds too much whatever errors I may make along the way as long as I stick to Jesus's last commandment to his followers in John 13:34. When my time comes (very shortly now) I plan to grin and say, "Well, how'd I do with those extra years?" He will know what I mean.😁

One other thing Tex. When I went through the worst trial in my life I went to see a really old time holiness Pentecostal minister whom I had a lot of respect for and asked him for prayer. He prayed and said he had a word from God for me to "enjoy my salvation". I was disappointed at the time because I was expecting something really deep from God's word from someone like him. I was going through the worst trial I ever faced and my answer was to just enjoy my salvation? I left his house as defeated as when I came yet I found out later that was exactly what I needed to hear. When anyone says they have a word from the Lord for you it will always be found or line up with the bible. I saw in the bible where King David had asked God to restore to him the joy of his salvation. I saw in my own life new Christians so full of the joy of the Lord that they made you want what they had and in a few years time they became so legalistic and made it so hard to serve God that who would want what they now had? Anyway I started enjoying my salvation and I am thankful to this day for that word from this minister who is now in heaven with the Lord. For a number of years before he went home to be with the Lord I would see this minister in restaurants and around the town and would thank him and tell him I was enjoying my salvation.