More proof of God

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

[OldBrownsFan]

[MLD Woody]

Does not sound like an Einstein quote at all .... And a quick internet search shows a lot of people doubt it is as well

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Poor little snowflake.

[Clevfan4life]

37 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Does not sound like an Einstein quote at all .... And a quick internet search shows a lot of people doubt it is as well

he may have said it in a broader context, not the "Christian" concept of "miracle"...here's the whole piece. 

 

There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.

But without deeper reflection one knows from daily life that one exists for other people; first of all for those upon whose smiles and well-being our own happiness is wholly dependent, and then for the many, unknown to us, to whose destinies we are bound by the ties of sympathy.

A hundred times every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving.

A human being is part of a whole, called by us the "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest -a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

Only a life lived for others is worth living.

--Albert Einstein

 

[The Cysko Kid]

Science is a miracle. Look at all the things, mostly positive and some negative that science has done for you. Back in the good old days you lived in a thatched hut if you were lucky, having fires inside without even chimneys and a cut on the leg put you at serious risk of death due to infection from all the actual shit, human and animal, that you waded through in the street outside your hut. 

And don't try to sell me on how God produced iPhones either. God didn't apparently give the first shit about famine or plague or anything else. 

God isn't the reason you don't have polio. Jonas Salk is. 

[The Cysko Kid]

1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said:

he may have said it in a broader context, not the "Christian" concept of "miracle"...here's the whole piece. 

 

There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.

But without deeper reflection one knows from daily life that one exists for other people; first of all for those upon whose smiles and well-being our own happiness is wholly dependent, and then for the many, unknown to us, to whose destinies we are bound by the ties of sympathy.

A hundred times every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have received and am still receiving.

A human being is part of a whole, called by us the "Universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest -a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

Only a life lived for others is worth living.

--Albert Einstein

 

Goddamn leftist Commie obammy-lovin' Einstein. Murica. 

[Westside Steve]

3 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Goddamn leftist Commie obammy-lovin' Einstein. Murica. 

But just to be clear that has absolutely nothing to do with the way you live your life, right? Or Cleve? Or anybody who gets all warm and fuzzy over this quote? Didn't think so.

We return you to your regularly scheduled pontificating.

WSS

[Clevfan4life]

29 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

But just to be clear that has absolutely nothing to do with the way you live your life, right? Or Cleve? Or anybody who gets all warm and fuzzy over this quote? Didn't think so.

We return you to your regularly scheduled pontificating.

WSS

what did i get warm and fuzzy over? i just provided the whole quote gringo

☕

[The Cysko Kid]

33 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

But just to be clear that has absolutely nothing to do with the way you live your life, right? Or Cleve? Or anybody who gets all warm and fuzzy over this quote? Didn't think so.

We return you to your regularly scheduled pontificating.

WSS

What are you talking about? I'm with you. People that want things like the polio vaccine are just looking for free shit. 

[Westside Steve]

2 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

What are you talking about? I'm with you. People that want things like the polio vaccine are just looking for free shit. 

Sorry, I misunderstood.  I thought you were on board with the Einstein sermon. My bad.

I guess you really do live your life to serve others.

😂

WSS

[OldBrownsFan]

mir·a·cle

/ˈmirək(ə)l/

Learn to pronounce

noun

 

1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.

   ************************************

    

   "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." Albert Einstein

    

    

[jbluhm86]

9 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

mir·a·cle

/ˈmirək(ə)l/

Learn to pronounce

noun

 

1. a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.

   ************************************

    

   "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." Albert Einstein

    

    

[OldBrownsFan]

We know the definition of a miracle. We don't know if this was a metaphor.

[jbluhm86]

35 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

We know the definition of a miracle. We don't know if this was a metaphor.

Well, given his stated views on religion, particularly the theistic variety, I'm 99% sure it was a metaphor. 

[OldBrownsFan]

12 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

Well, given his stated views on religion, particularly the theistic variety, I'm 99% sure it was a metaphor. 

From what I have read from his writings was that Einstein believed in God but not a personal God.

If he did in fact believe in God then he is not ruling out the miraculous? My read of his statement is some believe everything comes from God and therefore miraculous while others believe science can explain everything and there is nothing miraculous. 

[jbluhm86]

37 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

From what I have read from his writings was that Einstein believed in God but not a personal God.

If he did in fact believe in God then he is not ruling out the miraculous? My read of his statement is some believe everything comes from God and therefore miraculous while others believe science can explain everything and there is nothing miraculous. 

He may, at most, have practiced a form of deism in which there was a creator God who created the universe, but made no further interaction or interventions afterwards; he said he was agnostic on the idea of a deity on the whole. 

A miracle, in your Judeo-Christian sense of the word, is a suspension of the natural order to produce a fortuitous outcome; a direct intervention in the normal running of the universe in your favour. 

I don't know why you're seemingly trying to backhandedly redefine Einstein's use of the word "miracle" to fit your own Christian/theistic definition of it when the man clearly stated that biblical stories and a personal God were "childish"; it seems to me like you're trying to square the circle on this issue as if it would be some kind of "gotcha" moment if you could pull it off, or that it would somehow add some kind of clout to belief in Christianity if he did believe what you believe about religion.

[OldBrownsFan]

Just now, jbluhm86 said:

He may, at most, have practiced a form of deism in which there was a creator God who created the universe, but made no further interaction or interventions afterwards; he said he was agnostic on the idea of a deity on the whole. 

A miracle, in your sense of the word, is a suspension of the natural order to produce a fortuitous outcome; a direct intervention in the normal running of the universe in your favour. 

I don't know why you're seemingly trying to backhandedly redefine Einstein's use of the word "miracle" to fit your own theistic definition of it when the man clearly stated that biblical stories and a personal God were "childish", but it seems to me like you're trying to square the circle on this issue as if it would be some kind of "gotcha" moment if you could pull it off. 

I think believing in God even if not a personal God is leaving one train of thought that science proves or will prove everything and there is no God to science can only take us so far and that leads to God. I agree with something Dr. Krauthammer once said about atheism being the weakest of the theological arguments: 

" I mean, of all the possible theologies, atheism is the least plausible. I mean, you've got to explain the existence of the universe, and to assume it invented itself or created itself is rather odd.

I mean, the only important question, the most important question is why is there or can there be anything, and how can there be consciousness? Atheism is not an answer that is plausible in any way to me.

But then short of that, I guess I'm a skeptic in the way that, say, a Jefferson was, in the sense that I don't accept the accepted accounts. I suspect there is something out there mysterious, sort of the Einsteinian mystery. And beyond that, I haven't a clue."

And I know in that statement Krauthammer is not advocating for a personal God and I am not even saying belief in a personal God is even the strongest argument. For me Jesus answers the question of God being a personal God. 

[calfoxwc]

Well, I know the very couple of seconds, all alone, asking God to help me to survive, I got a miracle. I've lived all my life knowing that I was seconds away from being gone, and that God really is there.

  Which, along with the obvious questions, is a lot for a fifth grade kid to contemplate.

Our eearth - biology, physics, geology etc of our entire world is a fascinating work of profound perfect complex art and science, possible only by having been created by God.

[Westside Steve]

Atheists who also defend deism are kind of blowing their own argument. If you admit that there is a higher power all bets are off.

WSS

[TexasAg1969]

Ironically it was Einstein who said that God did not play dice with the universe in his arguments against Quantum Mechanics. He just could not accept that chance could be a part of a major branch of astrophysics as is the case there.

All that being said, the only thing I need to do is go outside on a starry night and realize that my vision is so limited that I can barely see one little part on one little galaxy in a universe populated by trillions of galaxies and all began with a bang that no one can hear because there was no medium to carry the sound of "let there be light".

As for Jesus? He had a better philosophy on a guide for my life than any other person that ever lived. Of course at times I fail to read the guidebook, but he knew that too and left us all a mulligan. For that I am thankful and truly in awe. Amen.

[calfoxwc]

art appreciation. blech. never again.

[TexasAg1969]

7 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

art appreciation. blech. never again.

LOL! And I'm flying back to Colorado to go to the greatest exhibit of Monet ever assembled anywhere. 125 total paintings with a taped audioguide.😁

You gotta love Impressionism to take that trip. Well plus snowshoeing in winter.☃️

[Clevfan4life]

On 6/29/2019 at 6:46 AM, Westside Steve said:

Atheists who also defend deism are kind of blowing their own argument. If you admit that there is a higher power all bets are off.

WSS

listen up monkey, ive heard atheists defend in principle all kinds of religions and spiritualities as long as those religions and/or spirituality dont call for specific  conversion and conformity, forced if necessary. 

It would help u in life if u were smarter and took just a moment longer to rationslly dissect a persons position. Cause u miss an "awful" lot. Atheists want tge right to beleive in nothing and not be subjected to influence in govt from indoctrinated religions. But most respect wbatever the fuck so.eone wants to beleive....

[calfoxwc]

say, btw, Tex, and Hoorta...you two are avid hikers - we were at a garage sale Thurs, and it's just a fun thing, my favorite buy is books.

I bought a hardback - "Hiking Through - Finding Peace and Freedom on the Appalachian Trail" by Paul V. Stutzman.

It's a true story, tragic in the beginning, really funny out on the trail, well written. I have only read to chapter six, but it is

really excellent. He walked the entire? trail in five months, apparently.

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

say, btw, Tex, and Hoorta...you two are avid hikers - we were at a garage sale Thurs, and it's just a fun thing, my favorite buy is books.

I bought a hardback - "Hiking Through - Finding Peace and Freedom on the Appalachian Trail" by Paul V. Stutzman.

It's a true story, tragic in the beginning, really funny out on the trail, well written. I have only read to chapter six, but it is

really excellent. He walked the entire? trail in five months, apparently.

Mountain climbing is just advanced hiking for the most part Cal. When you get to extreme vertical, that's the domain of the rock jocks. (see below)  

The Yellow Brick Road via the South Col route up Everest is essentially a long uphill hike, no experience necessary to have the guides haul your sorry ass up the 50' Hillary Step. Ditto Denali in Alaska by the South Buttress route. 

If anyone is curious, this is the last major piece of real estate on earth to be successfully climbed. (1977) At 21,000' and higher than Denali, the Great Trango Tower obviously has no easy way to the top.    

[calfoxwc]

I love to see mountain peaks ...from a distance...

[Vambo]

Texas city takes down church's 'Jesus Welcomes You' sign overnight

[jbluhm86]

On 6/28/2019 at 9:15 PM, OldBrownsFan said:

I think believing in God even if not a personal God is leaving one train of thought that science proves or will prove everything and there is no God to science can only take us so far and that leads to God...

I don't think that any scientist worth his or her merit has stated that science will prove everything. Science is just a tool (the best one we have available, imo) that humanity uses to understand the world and universe around them. And its most likely true that scientific observation and discovery as we understand it may only yield part of the universe's mysteries to us and not the whole picture. But, to me, a gap in scientific knowledge doesn't automatically mean that the correct move is to throw God or religion in there to explain the gap.

On 6/28/2019 at 9:15 PM, OldBrownsFan said:

...I agree with something Dr. Krauthammer once said about atheism being the weakest of the theological arguments: 

" I mean, of all the possible theologies, atheism is the least plausible. I mean, you've got to explain the existence of the universe, and to assume it invented itself or created itself is rather odd.

I mean, the only important question, the most important question is why is there or can there be anything, and how can there be consciousness? Atheism is not an answer that is plausible in any way to me.

But then short of that, I guess I'm a skeptic in the way that, say, a Jefferson was, in the sense that I don't accept the accepted accounts. I suspect there is something out there mysterious, sort of the Einsteinian mystery. And beyond that, I haven't a clue."

And I know in that statement Krauthammer is not advocating for a personal God and I am not even saying belief in a personal God is even the strongest argument. For me Jesus answers the question of God being a personal God. 

All respects to the late Dr. Krauthammer, but he's making the same mistake in logic that you were up above: the God of the Gaps argument. I think many religious people (and some atheists) erroneously state that atheism claims outright that there is no God. Atheists cannot definitively disprove the existence of God just as the religious cannot definitively prove the existence of their religion's God(s).

However, the one advantage (imo) that the nonbelievers or skeptics have over the religious is that they cannot claim to know more about the universe that what they know. For example: astronomers know, through many careful measurements and observations, that the universe is currently expanding and that it keeps getting bigger as time moves forward. Logically, if you run the clock backwards in time, the universe shrinks until it reaches a point around 14 b.y.a. where the entire universe is concentrated into a single point: the Big Bang. Notice that scientists here claim to know only that which they have observed and have empirical data for. They know only that there was a Big Bang that created and grew into the universe we observe today. And although there are several hypothesis out there of what caused the Big Bang, none claim to know precisely what happened.

The religious, on the other hand, take that gap in knowledge and make the leap to fill it in with their own religious beliefs and deities to explain their world based on bad or nonexistent "evidence" (religious texts/dogma). Therein lies the key difference between atheistic thought and religious belief. I, and other atheists like me, present a view of the universe as it presents itself through empirical data and observation and - most importantly - is open to reinterpretation/correction when presented better data. The religious, on the other hand, come from the complete opposite angle of thought by claiming they ALREADY know how the universe was/is - through their religious texts -  and, when presented with data to the contrary, are forced to either reject the new information outright or try to hammer the proverbial square peg into the round hole and try to make the data fit into their preconceived ideology.

 

“Spirit” comes from the Latin word “to breathe.” What we breathe is air, which is certainly matter, however thin. Despite usage to the contrary, there is no necessary implication in the word “spiritual” that we are talking of anything other than matter (including the matter of which the brain is made), or anything outside the realm of science. On occasion, I will feel free to use the word. Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or of acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

[OldBrownsFan]

This article probably answers most of the questions you raised better than I could:

What Is the Best Argument for the Existence of God?

https://answersingenesis.org/is-god-real/what-is-the-best-argument-for-the-existence-of-god/