Chemist Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 11 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said: I'm not a climate change denier (I'm a climate change agnostic) but trying to keep pollution in check is a good thing I support. What I cannot support is the panic driven hysteria from the left that we have to take drastic measures that will wreck our economy to "save the planet" that is is quickly going to be lost unless such drastic measures are taken immediately. The idea that humans are causing climate change is NOT settled science but common sense tells me that humans should work to make the environment as clean as possible regardless. There should be a happy medium here where we can all agree on and take common sense approaches to having a cleaner environment. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 13 hours ago, calfoxwc said: Hoorta, no need to be defensive - it's just a fact that the ice age(s) melted before there was ever one factory, before people ? while the earth's rain forests were 100% intact. Every single time mmgw is brought up in the leftwing ranks, including all the way up to the UN - it has to do with redistribution of wealth. In our America, it also has to do with voting for the dems/liberals/leftists, and manipulating Americans to allow themselves to be controlled at a stupid level. Fines for campfires and cows farting? THAT is what you want to hang your hat on? Fees for having a non-white heat reflecting roof? Driving a car anywhere? running any engine? Not having diapers on your chickens? Turning up your thermostat in winter to 72? Lowering your thermostat in summer to air condition to 70? the iist just goes on endlessly. There are independents who do NOT want gov intrusion - I'm good with that - but they turn around and flippity flippity - and demand that gov squash society and all of us with fines/fees/taxes/regulations/bans on nearly anything..... cows farting ? lol lol lol really now. Cal- that's not what I'm saying. The extreme Greeners are a joke in my book too. I just don't see this as a democrat\republican issue. The market will correct itself eventually, by force. Carbon fuels aren't limitless. I always take the long view. It took hundreds of millions of years to lay that stuff down, and at the rate we're going, it's going to be used up in less than a millennia, a mere blip in the cosmic time stage. For sure, the Ice Age happened before humans got involved in the equation. What happened there? WE DON"T KNOW. I did posit an asteroid hit that hasn't been tracked down could well have caused an "ice age". Sure, CO2 levels are part of the equation- but are they the only part of the equation? Do we have to do something now, like the end of civilization as we know it people are saying? MY POV is it doesn't hurt to take some steps to mitigate what we're doing. Not just throw all the financial burden on the USA. 16 hours ago, Canton Dawg said: So you hang your hat on the same guys that claimed of the next coming ice age in the ‘60’s & ‘70’s? I find it hilarious that these same people make outlandish claims that the polar ice caps will be melted by (insert year here), then we get to laugh when the claims were false. One of the biggest problems today, are the scientists turned into politicians, and the politicians turned into scientists. Don't put words in my mouth guy. Go pound salt on that one. I find it hilarious that you'd bother posting something feebly attempting to prove something "scientific" from your POV from a guy with an agenda that's one step away from a flat earther. I've said it before, believe whatever the hell you want to- it's not going to affect me, or change in the slightest whatever may, or may not happen in the next 50 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 1 hour ago, hoorta said: I've said it before, believe whatever the hell you want to- it's not going to affect me, or change in the slightest whatever may, or may not happen in the next 50 years. Unfortunately that's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 6 hours ago, hoorta said: I find it hilarious that you'd bother posting something feebly attempting to prove something "scientific" from your POV from a guy with an agenda that's one step away from a flat earther. C02 levels have been higher in the past, that’s a scientific fact...period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 11 hours ago, hoorta said: Cal- that's not what I'm saying. The extreme Greeners are a joke in my book too. I just don't see this as a democrat\republican issue. The market will correct itself eventually, by force. Carbon fuels aren't limitless. I always take the long view. It took hundreds of millions of years to lay that stuff down, and at the rate we're going, it's going to be used up in less than a millennia, a mere blip in the cosmic time stage. For sure, the Ice Age happened before humans got involved in the equation. What happened there? WE DON"T KNOW. I did posit an asteroid hit that hasn't been tracked down could well have caused an "ice age". Sure, CO2 levels are part of the equation- but are they the only part of the equation? Do we have to do something now, like the end of civilization as we know it people are saying? MY POV is it doesn't hurt to take some steps to mitigate what we're doing. Not just throw all the financial burden on the USA. There are new discoveries of oil, coal and gas, new tech to reach the more cost-prohibitive carbon resources. I railed agaist the mmgw hysteria for years. The idea that we are in an energy crisis is nonsense. I suppose in centuries, you mentioned millenia, we could start running short on resources? or not. But the left has made it their political, financial, power attainment, and vote getting vehicle. so has the united nations, the corrupt scumbags. Those who go with the hysteria, never seem to give a crap about the millions of acres of destruction of the earth's rainforests. When most of us realize that CO2 is processed by plants - the left couldn't care less. Our grid could get hit, our economy could crash (not with Pres Trump at the steering wheel of the Great Ship America), but later...who knows.. a natural calamity could wreck us, we could get attacked by space aliens like in the movies...centuries before the fossil fuels run out. But what do we do? Should we bother? I'd start stopping the rainforest destruction, cut bigtime back on pollution, certainly. The biggest thing we can do is invest in new technology. Who knows - we could discover a tiny crystal on another planet that would heat a home for years. Generate it's own heat? No emission? Who knows. But investing requires companies to go with R&D with money they can afford to invest. The left wants to take most of their money away, in terms of taxes, fees, lawsuits, shutdowns, and fines - over car/truck emissions, cows farting, where people have thermostats, campfires, colors of roofs. Just like obaMao"care" - it didn't solve the problem - it created many, and failed. It was intended to be a political surfboard to elections. ObaMao invesetment of OUR MONEY into solyndra was a disastrous political pile of crap. New Tech to cost-effectively replace fossil fuels may not get here ever, or soon...but that is where the problem will be solved. I'm not saying your a liberal marxist wingnut at all - but those who are love mmgw. and they to the opposite of encouraging R&D of corporations. Unless of course, they are getting rich off those corporations, as algorish and others have done, by frantically screaming about a fake crisis. Solyndra Scandal | Full Coverage of Failed Solar Startup - The ... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/specialreports/solyndra-scandal/ Key coverage of the investigation into Solyndra, the Silicon Valley startup that collapsed, leaving taxpayers liable for $535 million in federal guarantees . ... Since the failure of solar-panel company Solyndra, President Obama’s $80 billion clean-technology program has begun to ... Another Climate Alarmist Admits Real Motive Behind Warming Scare ... https://www.investors.com/.../another-climate-alarmist-admits-real-motive-behind-war... Mar 29, 2016 - Then listen to the words of former United Nations climate official Ottmar ... "We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy," said ... Wealth Redistribution and Globalism, for the Climate https://www.thenewamerican.com/.../30977-wealth-redistribution-and-globalism-for-t... Jan 8, 2019 - Wealth Redistribution and Globalism, for the Climate ... As the state-funded BBC put it, these rules “will govern the way the world tackles climate change for ... Despite the total failure of every UN climate model to accurately ... GOLDSTEIN: Failed climate policies are about wealth redistribution ... https://torontosun.com/.../goldstein-failed-climate-policies-are-about-wealth-redistributio... Oct 10, 2018 - It's a multi-billion dollar taxation and wealth redistribution program. ... stop catastrophic warming, even if Canada and the rest of the world's nations were ... The UN says Canada and the global community must now achieve far ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Mar 29, 2016 - Then listen to the words of former United Nations climate official Ottmar ... "We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy," said ... 'Global warming' is not about the science – UN Admits: 'Climate ... https://www.climatedepot.com/.../global-warming-is-not-about-the-science-un-admits-... May 24, 2017 - 'Global warming' is not about the science – UN Admits: 'Climate change policy is about how we redistribute the world's wealth' ... Instead, climate change policy is about how we redistribute de facto the world's wealth. .... Media freaks that 'Trump official consulted climate deniers' · Trump's Green Re-election ... Another Climate Alarmist Admits Real Motive Behind Warming Scare ... https://www.investors.com/.../another-climate-alarmist-admits-real-motive-behind-war... Mar 29, 2016 - Then listen to the words of former United Nations climate official Ottmar ... "We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy," said ... Mark Steyn - IPCC Official Admits Global Warming Is A Lie To ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdoRvly02Bo Aug 23, 2017 - UN IPCC Official Admits 'We Redistribute World's Wealth By Climate Policy' If you needed any more evidence that the entire theory of ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 13 hours ago, MLD Woody said: Unfortunately that's not true. It depends on how aggressive (or not) this issue is dealt with Woody. Regarding that UN stuff- it's background noise that no one is hopefully going to take seriously. The folks on the right in denial are grasping at any straws they can find to contradict the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. So let 'em believe whatever they want- I've said it before. MHO is Cal's being hopelessly optimistic about the world's carbon reserves. I'd bet at current consumption rates, they'll be gone inside of 100 years. Really- we're already offshore drilling in two mile deep water, and up in the Arctic. The oil hungry anti-environmentalists want to drill in the AWR, where it's a godforsaken swamp in the summer, and a dark 40 below zero pit in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, hoorta said: It depends on how aggressive (or not) this issue is dealt with Woody. Regarding that UN stuff- it's background noise that no one is hopefully going to take seriously. The folks on the right in denial are grasping at any straws they can find to contradict the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. So let 'em believe whatever they want- I've said it before. MHO is Cal's being hopelessly optimistic about the world's carbon reserves. I'd bet at current consumption rates, they'll be gone inside of 100 years. Really- we're already offshore drilling in two mile deep water, and up in the Arctic. The oil hungry anti-environmentalists want to drill in the AWR, where it's a godforsaken swamp in the summer, and a dark 40 below zero pit in the winter. I'm saying his climate beliefs WILL affect you, or at least people my age and younger. If we continue to go through this politicized nonsense on the backs of those blindly following their political party then we will face consequences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 that does it. I'm going out and have a campfire in the fire pit all night long...and you know what else? I'm goin to roast some hot dogs, and by golly, I'm going to have some s'mores too. I don't make my s'mores like the usual - I like to make em without the marshmallow and without the graham cracker. The left has made the changes in weather into a political farce - so has the UN, so have the certain scientists who twerked cherry picked data to make their political points. Because - this farce all started with the faked tree ring circus - and "terrified" alarmist leftwing politicians are the hired clowns. Read the truth here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2014/02/04/global-warmings-tree-ring-circus/#3893d2a94774 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 The U.N.'s Global Warming War On Capitalism: An Important History ... https://www.forbes.com/.../the-u-n-s-global-warming-war-on-capitalism-an-important-... Jan 22, 2013 - Although the U.S. never signed up, the Kyoto Protocol was adopted in .... of socialism, wealth redistribution, and ultimately, global governance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Hoorta - the bad news is, I am correct about the UN. https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/un-s-top-climate-official-goal-intentionally-transform-economic-0 UN’s Top Climate Official: Goal Is To ‘Intentionally Transform the Economic Development Model’ “This will not happen overnight and it will not happen at a single conference on climate change…It is a process, because of the depth of the transformation,” said Figueres, who said last year that Communist China, the world’s top emitter of greenhouse gas, is “doing it right” regarding climate change while calling the U.S. Congress “very detrimental” in the fight against global warming. " ************************************************** yeah -because China doesn't have the money and did sign the kyoto treaty, but is NOT BOUND by any of it. But our America has big bucks, and the UN wants to get it from us, to fund poor countries around the globe. So, the "top emitter of greenhouse gas" with no money to give, is fine. But Big Money America is bad, per the UN. what a freaking farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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