is TE our weakest

[LBC mike]

with all the talent.  seems that our TE group last year just average.  fells was the only decent one but he is gone.  devalve is a mystery.  kjoku kinda disappointed with his dropped passes and all.

[The Gipper]

The answer is :  NO

[Horn of Lake Erie]

Biggest question marks have to be OL, particularly RG and T. 

[Dutch Oven]

It's not exactly a strong overall unit. Not weak, but I wouldn't consider it a strength. 

I still feel optimistic about Njoku, he played much better as the season went on. 

[nickers]

Njoku should really thrive this season.. He's gonna get a lot of good looks.... So while not a strength... Its not a liability either...

[Orion]

5 hours ago, LBC mike said:

fells was the only decent one but he is gone.

I liked him.  

 

23 minutes ago, nickers said:

Njoku should really thrive this season.. He's gonna get a lot of good looks....

zactly!

[gumby73]

6 hours ago, LBC mike said:

 fells was the only decent one but he is gone.  

as a former player of the position. I can tell ya, Fells was a hell of a blocking TE. As we sit today, we still have worries at both Tackle positions. Fells or sometimes Orson Charles was their outside help that N.Chubb could read off their seal blocks a bunch of times. Damarious Harris is not a Fells in the TE blocking game.he's game though .Fells will be missed, playing outside the tackles..Gronk was the best I've ever seen..Gronk's hidden blocking talent? he could lead with his right or left shoulder & never lost any power leading with either shoulder.Pats would motion him outside either tackle, knowing his blocking skills.. Gronk was amazing to watch play TE..He will also be missed, in my eyes 

[Zombo]

David Njoku is a star on the rise.

Year One 32 catches, 386 yds, 53.3 catch %

Year Two 56 catches, 639 yds, 63.6 catch %

He is all of 22 years old.

22.

No one will benefit more from defenses having to cover OBJ and Landry. Callaway too.

The other guys are role players, not playmakers. They just need to do their job well when called upon, they certainly have the ability to do so, not a bad group at all.

Zombo

[Unsympathetic]

However he was only the 28th best TE in the league last season.

Njoku is an NFL athlete but he has a ways to go before he's even the top in the division..

[Nero]

De Valve is a huge question mark, and I hope that we don't miss Fells blocking abbility, because Oline is going to need as much help as possible. 

My definition of Njoku is that he's still a project with a lot of potential. For me he is as of today a "tall WR", though. 

He had a huge drop rate at the beginning of last season, but played much better later. I may have bad memory, but I don't remember him making a lot of plays with contested catches. Something to bare in mind is that this guy is tall and has a huge vertical jump, which makes me believe that he should be a show when given the opportunity to fly for the ball. 

As of his blocking abbility, it may have improved, but I can't get out of my mind a play where he granted a sack (not the Kizer one, but to Mayfield) and still thought it was tackle's responsability, when the rusher came obviously from his side (D gap). The rusher was completely free.

I love his attitude and I root for him. Experience and a better overall offense will help him a lot this year.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

Njoku started the season dropping way more passes than towards the end.

I think his drop issues are in the past but EVERYONE has occasional drops.

D.Harris from KC can play as well.

[dawg2fan]

On 6/6/2019 at 3:48 PM, Horn of Lake Erie said:

Biggest question marks have to be OL, particularly RG and T. 

Especially with Pittsburg and their blitz package?  And they will be testing our line.   No doubt the OL is our weakest group.  

[Mudfly]

 

Dont think TE is a bad group at all....

Id put LB's right up there tho .....we only have 2 "known" LB's and neither one is a killer......we need a star and depth....But, until someone emerges(Wilson, TakiTaki, Taylor?), Id say our LB's are a very weak group.....

And OL......well before TE....

Njoku has endless potential and has shown good growth in his short time here....I expect bigger and better things for him throughout his career....

Devalve was reliable when we used him.....not much flash, but a good technical player that has some skills.

 

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, Mudfly said:

Id put LB's right up there tho .....we only have 2 "known" LB's and neither one is a killer......we need a star and depth....But, until someone emerges(Wilson, TakiTaki, Taylor?), Id say our LB's are a very weak group.....

Mud I have believed all along that as soon as we had a very quality D-Line the LB's would be free to play up to the level they need to be. No more OLs running past DLs to get to the LBs on running plays. This is gonna be fun to watch this year.

[Canton Mike]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Mud I have believed all along that as soon as we had a very quality D-Line the LB's would be free to play up to the level they need to be. No more OLs running past DLs to get to the LBs on running plays. This is gonna be fun to watch this year.

Bill, I agree. Our LBs were attempting to stop RBs that (far too often) had an "untouched" full head of steam by the time they got to the backers. I don't think that will happen much this year with the DL upgrades we have made & you are correct, that should help our LB play immensely. I also love the addition of Takitaki & Wilson. I honestly think we'll be ok (or better) at LB this season.

Mike

[Mudfly]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Mud I have believed all along that as soon as we had a very quality D-Line the LB's would be free to play up to the level they need to be. No more OLs running past DLs to get to the LBs on running plays. This is gonna be fun to watch this year.

Well, I definitely agree that their job should be easier this season, mainly due to the improved d-line. It also sounds like we will be playing only 2 LB's a large amount of the time(though Im certain our depth has helped make that the best way to get the best players on the field, more often than not) IE - if we had 3 great backers, they'd be playing 3 man more....

And dont get me wrong, I like our 2 guys and this years picks.....but, in RE to the OP's question, I think this group is the weakest and am glad they will be getting help....they are the only group that I dont see obvious all pro potential anywhere.....(OL a very close 2nd)....

every other group has obvious stand out(all-pro ish)type players, as well as good developmental players....

[Tour2ma]

While LB is a weak room for us.... weaker than TE... like TE it's going to be a deemphasized position in 2019.

I see a lot of Spread Offense coming in 2019 and with our WR room only Njoku is going to see the field in that set.

We've got a helluva DL payroll for them to free up LBs.... We've assembled a disruptive DL... vs. run as well as pass... and disruptive DLs penetrate and make plays. They don't set up LBs. Garrett and Vernon cut off everything wide for Richardson, Ogun and LBs to stuff 4-on-3 in between.

 

[tiamat63]

11 personnel with be our staple and if we can assume Baker takes that next step, then you're going to see quite a bit of 10 mixed in vs teams with weaker LB's and DB's...     See - Steelers, Bengals, Dolphins & Cardinals. 

Looking down the schedule, the Bills secondary actually might be the most stacked.  Good blend of talent, youth and veterans. 

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

While LB is a weak room for us.... weaker than TE... like TE it's going to be a deemphasized position in 2019.

I see a lot of Spread Offense coming in 2019 and with our WR room only Njoku is going to see the field in that set.

We've got a helluva DL payroll for them to free up LBs.... We've assembled a disruptive DL... vs. run as well as pass... and disruptive DLs penetrate and make plays. They don't set up LBs. Garrett and Vernon cut off everything wide for Richardson, Ogun and LBs to stuff 4-on-3 in between.

 

LOL! You do realize that you just described setting up the LBs, right?🤣

[Tour2ma]

On 6/11/2019 at 11:39 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

LOL! You do realize that you just described setting up the LBs, right?🤣

Nope... and I still don't. DL shooting gaps to make tackles while leaving OL free to flatten the back 7 is about as far from that as can be.

DL set up LBs by "occupying OL", e.g., a single DT tying up two OL. Put another way te DL "block" for the LB(s).

[Unsympathetic]

Forget it, Tour. He's rolling.

Let's all look forward to TexasAg's strategery lectures on DB technique and the finer points of the 4-3 Over.

[TexasAg1969]

16 minutes ago, Unsympathetic said:

Forget it, Tour. He's rolling.

Let's all look forward to TexasAg's strategery lectures on DB technique and the finer points of the 4-3 Over.

I will seek assistance from my defensive coaching son who has to go up against the modern passing game that HS coaches in Texas want their defensive players to learn to defend while in MS. My mama raised no fools and this old fool still learns new things about this game every season.🤗

[Tour2ma]

lol... I know that the older I get the more brain farts I am permitted.

If you need my agent's number, let me know...

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... I know that the older I get the more brain farts I am permitted.

If you need my agent's number, let me know...

1-800-brn-fart?😜

[mjp28]

9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... I know that the older I get the more brain farts I am permitted.

If you need my agent's number, let me know...

But still the best mugshot on the board. Great memories!

 

[Flugel]

On 6/13/2019 at 10:58 PM, Tour2ma said:

Nope... and I still don't. DL shooting gaps to make tackles while leaving OL free to flatten the back 7 is about as far from that as can be.

DL set up LBs by "occupying OL", e.g., a single DT tying up two OL. Put another way te DL "block" for the LB(s).

I'm waiting to see what our new DC prefers to do with the personnel.  I've always agreed with your perspective above.

In the past, 1 gap schemes aimed at penetration up front haven't always been favorable for our LBers especially against the run.  While Marty had a lot of critics for his asss pucker post season offense/prevent-a-win pass defense - his regular season defense was sound against the run.  In fact, it was #1 against the run in 86 which was our only season in the last 5 decades that we won as many as 12 regular season games. The biggest thing that defense lacked was a Derrick Thomas nobody could block off the edge even though Chip Banks was drafted to perpetuate that kind of impact.  That said, Reggie Camp/Sam Clancy and the 34 year old Carl Hairston (9 sacks) were very efficient at maintaining outside leverage on the containment funneling everything inside. Bob Golic wasn't a BIG dude by any means; but man did our 2 ILBs play some really good football from his consistent 2 gap integrity.

Here comes a temporary exception to the rule or 2.  When Bud Carson came here with his up-field 1 gap scheme, the 37 year old Carl Hairston kicked inside and gave us 6.5 sacks, MD Perry gave us 7 sacks, Al Bubba Baker gave us 7.5 sacks at LDE while Robert Banks added 4 sacks.  MLB Mike Johnson made the Pro Bowl as did OLB Clay Matthews meaning 2 of our 3 LBers were efficient enough for acknowledgement.  Our defense was ranked 4th out of 28 teams at points allowed at 15.9 points per game.  1 year later the ship capsized and sunk.  The defense ended up ranked 28th out of 28 teams at points given up. Bud Carson was fired with a 2-7 record; while the permanent look on Jim Shofner's face after the 911 operator asked him to hold said "No habla."  The other example I can think of was D'Qwell Jackson playing his best/most instinctive football in terms of making most of his tackles at the line of scrimmage in lieu of 20 yards down field more of the time.  In fact, he only averaged 2.5 tackles for loss prior to moving into MLB in 2011 when he enjoyed 12 TFL.  Defense ended up ranked 5th out of 32 teams in points allowed with just 19.2 per game.

The thing that used to drive me nuckin futs was watching us try to copy teams that were running a 3-4 Defense without anywhere near their personnel to pull it off the same.  Some would say "well, it takes time and growing pains."  While true, asking a fan base to repeat their patience with square pegging round holes via scheme all the time made little sense when the newbies in charge were just going to get fired.  Too many bad dejavues for comfort.  There's talent in this defense even somewhat at LBer if we can just keep Kirskey and Schobert healthy.  Schobert wasn't a Pro Bowl alternate because he sucked. For the last 2 years, we've worked around injuries to at least 2 of the 3 LBers starting for significant portions of the season. You can vary 1 gap and 2 gap schemes up front.  I've seen defenses do this where they slant the line to a wide side or to an offensive formation strength via 1 gap penetrations while they scraped the LBers the other way.  You can also mix in an inside or outside X stunt where the LBer blitzes 1 gap and the dlinemen seals the other.  It's not that tough to vary stuff up front.  Know your chess pieces and treat us to the sic em, sock em and sack em we deserve! 

[nickers]

On 6/16/2019 at 10:19 AM, Flugel said:

I'm waiting to see what our new DC prefers to do with the personnel.  I've always agreed with your perspective above.

In the past, 1 gap schemes aimed at penetration up front haven't always been favorable for our LBers especially against the run.  While Marty had a lot of critics for his asss pucker post season offense/prevent-a-win pass defense - his regular season defense was sound against the run.  In fact, it was #1 against the run in 86 which was our only season in the last 5 decades that we won as many as 12 regular season games. The biggest thing that defense lacked was a Derrick Thomas nobody could block off the edge even though Chip Banks was drafted to perpetuate that kind of impact.  That said, Reggie Camp/Sam Clancy and the 34 year old Carl Hairston (9 sacks) were very efficient at maintaining outside leverage on the containment funneling everything inside. Bob Golic wasn't a BIG dude by any means; but man did our 2 ILBs play some really good football from his consistent 2 gap integrity.

Here comes a temporary exception to the rule or 2.  When Bud Carson came here with his up-field 1 gap scheme, the 37 year old Carl Hairston kicked inside and gave us 6.5 sacks, MD Perry gave us 7 sacks, Al Bubba Baker gave us 7.5 sacks at LDE while Robert Banks added 4 sacks.  MLB Mike Johnson made the Pro Bowl as did OLB Clay Matthews meaning 2 of our 3 LBers were efficient enough for acknowledgement.  Our defense was ranked 4th out of 28 teams at points allowed at 15.9 points per game.  1 year later the ship capsized and sunk.  The defense ended up ranked 28th out of 28 teams at points given up. Bud Carson was fired with a 2-7 record; while the permanent look on Jim Shofner's face after the 911 operator asked him to hold said "No habla."  The other example I can think of was D'Qwell Jackson playing his best/most instinctive football in terms of making most of his tackles at the line of scrimmage in lieu of 20 yards down field more of the time.  In fact, he only averaged 2.5 tackles for loss prior to moving into MLB in 2011 when he enjoyed 12 TFL.  Defense ended up ranked 5th out of 32 teams in points allowed with just 19.2 per game.

The thing that used to drive me nuckin futs was watching us try to copy teams that were running a 3-4 Defense without anywhere near their personnel to pull it off the same.  Some would say "well, it takes time and growing pains."  While true, asking a fan base to repeat their patience with square pegging round holes via scheme all the time made little sense when the newbies in charge were just going to get fired.  Too many bad dejavues for comfort.  There's talent in this defense even somewhat at LBer if we can just keep Kirskey and Schobert healthy.  Schobert wasn't a Pro Bowl alternate because he sucked. For the last 2 years, we've worked around injuries to at least 2 of the 3 LBers starting for significant portions of the season. You can vary 1 gap and 2 gap schemes up front.  I've seen defenses do this where they slant the line to a wide side or to an offensive formation strength via 1 gap penetrations while they scraped the LBers the other way.  You can also mix in an inside or outside X stunt where the LBer blitzes 1 gap and the dlinemen seals the other.  It's not that tough to vary stuff up front.  Know your chess pieces and treat us to the sic em, sock em and sack em we deserve! 

Whether or not people want to admit this or not..... Joe Schobert is the QB for our defense and in my view.. And does a very fine job at it.. Kirksey still looks slow and average to me... I gotta believe we replace him with something better down the road...

[TexasAg1969]

Another chimes in on Garrett and the d-line. Apparently Merriman is going to work some with Garrett too.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Shawne-Merriman-Myles-Garrett-Hall-of-Fame-132929955/?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=190617_123941_Cleveland Browns&utm_content=Link&liveconnect=1B-C2-1E-69-15-F3-1E-26-47-C2-FB-AF-1F-3D-14-30190617_123941ClevelandBrowns

[Tour2ma]

On 6/16/2019 at 9:19 AM, Flugel said:

  It's not that tough to vary stuff up front.  Know your chess pieces and treat us to the sic em, sock em and sack em we deserve! 

Bingo...

[ballpeen]

Our TE's are good enough, especially since it will be a fairly non-featured position except maybe in the red zone with Njoku's length.  It is probably going to be more of a check down option for Baker, and he doesn't check down all that much.