Player v. Player

[laiccm]

Just saw Baker Mayfield speak up on the Duke Johnson situation....basically siding with the FO. How do you guys feel about that? 

[D Bone]

Duke? Welcome to the board...... Now shut up and go play. 

[laiccm]

LOL...ijs.....I saw McNabb and Ben do this to the detriment of the locker room. 

[choco]

He sided with his teammates, not the FO. Duke got his feelings hurt when they put him up for sale. He's not holding out for money. Perhaps Duke should learn what it means to be a pro. It's his fault this is in the media, so baker is right....it's self inflicted

[Dutch Oven]

I'd like to see Duke get traded, since he's pretty much wasted on this team and we don't need the distraction.

[Canton Mike]

32 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'd like to see Duke get traded, since he's pretty much wasted on this team and we don't need the distraction.

Agreed.

Mike

[Ibleedbrown]

1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'd like to see Duke get traded, since he's pretty much wasted on this team and we don't need the distraction.

Sadly l agree too. I like Duke and kinda hoped he would embrace the circumstances and show us all why he belongs with a little grit and determination. But there he was the first day reiterating his desire to be traded, and if memory serves it’s the first time we heard it from his own mouth. 

I guess he feels the writing is on the wall and l have a hard time faulting anyone here, but at the end of the day you gotta have 53 dudes on the same page striving for the same goal, and he pretty much made it clear he wants to be elsewhere.

[Orion]

10 hours ago, choco said:

Duke should learn what it means to be a pro. It's his fault this is in the media, so baker is right....it's self inflicted

Actually it's the fault of the Media......and Dorsey.   After the Hunt signing it was the Media that asked Dorsey if the Hunt signing made Duke expendable....and Dorsey answered, Not yet.

I think that would piss off most players.  Whaddaya mean, Not yet?  Is that the goal?  To make me expendable?    

If the Media doesn't ASK, or if Dorsey doesn't say the word Yet....the Duke situation would not be of this magnitude.  

 

[Canton Mike]

5 hours ago, Orion said:

Actually it's the fault of the Media......and Dorsey.   After the Hunt signing it was the Media that asked Dorsey if the Hunt signing made Duke expendable....and Dorsey answered, Not yet.

I think that would piss off most players.  Whaddaya mean, Not yet?  Is that the goal?  To make me expendable?    

If the Media doesn't ASK, or if Dorsey doesn't say the word Yet....the Duke situation would not be of this magnitude.  

 

BB in NE (my media handling hero) probably would have responded, "We signed Hunt".

It's ok to ignore stupid questions & statements from the likes of MKC, Grossi, & Cowherd.

Mike

[TexasAg1969]

11 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I'd like to see Duke get traded, since he's pretty much wasted on this team and we don't need the distraction.

If I were Duke I would ask for a legit shot at slot receiver. I think he could be a good one.

[Tour2ma]

Baker is the face of the franchise.

That face essentially said, "Lead, follow or get out of the way."

I have no issue with that.

[laiccm]

I think Duke has handled it as good as anyone. Don't forget a B shelf life is usually about 3-5 years at most. I don't think the GM nor a 2nd year QB should be speaking on his money. Nor do I think anyone in the locker room is okay with it. Show me when it has ever turned out well? 

[Zombo]

29 minutes ago, laiccm said:

I think Duke has handled it as good as anyone. Don't forget a B shelf life is usually about 3-5 years at most. I don't think the GM nor a 2nd year QB should be speaking on his money. Nor do I think anyone in the locker room is okay with it. Show me when it has ever turned out well? 

Duke got paid last year. Handsomely.

It's not about money, it's about Playing time.

Mayfield's attitude is if you're not with us, you're against. The train is pulling out of the station, are you on or off?

He's not a whiny fag like Ben or McNabb, he's a leader.

Z

[laiccm]

He got paid well in your opinion. He still has to manage that money for the rest of his life if the statistics ring true

Always about money.

Mayfield's attitude should stay inside his mouth. No business being some other player's pocket. No way players are okay with that.

If I'm being honest..............Baker is talking a lot for a 2nd year. When McNabb and Ben did it it was after years of playoffs and SB appearances.

Someone needs to tell him this doesn't end well if he continues...and Dorsey's response is kinda what set it off.

 

[gumby73]

3 hours ago, laiccm said:

He got paid well in your opinion. He still has to manage that money for the rest of his life if the statistics ring true

Always about money.

Mayfield's attitude should stay inside his mouth. No business being some other player's pocket. No way players are okay with that.

If I'm being honest..............Baker is talking a lot for a 2nd year. When McNabb and Ben did it it was after years of playoffs and SB appearances.

Someone needs to tell him this doesn't end well if he continues...and Dorsey's response is kinda what set it off.

 

Duke is in camp for his 100K workout bonus..Dorsey took a low risk, high reward chance on Hunt.(because it could still blow-up).Duke needs to stfu and compete at his position, just as any player would.1.8 guaranteed( he ain't stupid with front money).Baker has said nothing about Duke's money, but Duke's issue was "self inflicted"..Duke got his money last season as Z posted.Is Duke in your opinion the 11th best back of 198? . Here's Dukes self inflicted issue  https://overthecap.com/player/duke-johnson/3925/   (see base after last & this season.Paid well up front)  it's nobody's issue in that locker room that Duke maynot see the bigger numbers of his contract he signed..It's Freddie's job to stick to his words of winning games is the most important stat, than patting up someones stat line..Duke, (not Bakers mouth), has made the choice for Duke not to see his big numbers of his own contract.. Duke feels lied to..Haslem feels lied to too, after Duke gladly took his money last season 👉👈 

[TexasAg1969]

5 hours ago, laiccm said:

He got paid well in your opinion. He still has to manage that money for the rest of his life if the statistics ring true

Always about money.

Mayfield's attitude should stay inside his mouth. No business being some other player's pocket. No way players are okay with that.

If I'm being honest..............Baker is talking a lot for a 2nd year. When McNabb and Ben did it it was after years of playoffs and SB appearances.

Someone needs to tell him this doesn't end well if he continues...and Dorsey's response is kinda what set it off.

 

Actually Mayfield is a throwback to the old QBs like Sammy Baugh and Bobby Layne who would jump in your shit in a NY minute from day 1 if you weren't on the same page to win games. I kind of like that way of being. The best, most competitive players respond well to it.

[Nero]

22 hours ago, Orion said:

Actually it's the fault of the Media......and Dorsey.   After the Hunt signing it was the Media that asked Dorsey if the Hunt signing made Duke expendable....and Dorsey answered, Not yet.

I think that would piss off most players.  Whaddaya mean, Not yet?  Is that the goal?  To make me expendable?    

If the Media doesn't ASK, or if Dorsey doesn't say the word Yet....the Duke situation would not be of this magnitude.  

 

Not yet is a stupid answer, indeed. 

I mean, even if you think of it, you are showing your cards, so the player automatically loses value for a trade. And then, you have the impact on the player: you have a young star as first string RB, another star comes with a suspension, and there's a young backup, a three of them brought by a guy that says that you're soon to be expendable. That would enrage me.

And I don't talk about the money because all of this is about playing time. 

As for Baker, it may seem harsh but I expect it. If you are looking forward to the season and have high goals, the last thing you want is to talk about people that don't come to work or want out. It's about the guys INSIDE the locker room, and he already sees Duke outside of the team.

I keep saying that the math is simple and none of this is surprising

[Ibleedbrown]

10 hours ago, laiccm said:

He got paid well in your opinion. He still has to manage that money for the rest of his life if the statistics ring true

Always about money.

Mayfield's attitude should stay inside his mouth. No business being some other player's pocket. No way players are okay with that.

If I'm being honest..............Baker is talking a lot for a 2nd year. When McNabb and Ben did it it was after years of playoffs and SB appearances.

Someone needs to tell him this doesn't end well if he continues...and Dorsey's response is kinda what set it off.

 

Baker’s opinion on things isn’t really something he’s in a position to keep under wraps. Not unless he wants to appear unleaderly, but it seems he’s embraced that role, and that’s largely a good thing. The media is going to ask him shit, and good leaders answer the hard questions with a degree of conviction.  

And really, his response was fairly diplomatic. It’s no secret a football team works better when everyone has each others’ backs. 

What irks me the most with this whole situation is wondering what kind of disconnect happened that caused it the first place? Duke is so good at a number of things, so what happened to make him think he had no chance to compete here? 

 

[TexasAg1969]

8 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Duke is so good at a number of things, so what happened to make him think he had no chance to compete here?

A superior RB from KC with good hands happened. He legitimately sees a diminishing role after game 8. That is why I suggest he ask for time at slot receiver. Injuries also happen to RBs, so it's foolish to make a big deal out of wanting to be traded. Just be ready for any role asked from the team.

[Ibleedbrown]

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

A superior RB from KC with good hands happened. He legitimately sees a diminishing role after game 8. That is why I suggest he ask for time at slot receiver. Injuries also happen to RBs, so it's foolish to make a big deal out of wanting to be traded. Just be ready for any role asked from the team.

Sure, and not a bad suggestion. And that’s basically my point is that Duke’s skill set is so good at so many things that surely he can find a role on this team. He’s practiced with WRs the last 2 camps, we all know he can catch the ball and we all know he’s got some moves with the ball in his hands. And he blocks so so well.

It’s not like the competition ever ends. Every year a good FO is going to bring in guys to compete for your job. It just so happens we brought in a ringer to compete with Duke, but if he embraces the challenge it will only make him better.

[MLD Woody]

Baker is so much of a Golden child right now that he can do no wrong. To the point where our previous perfect son, Duke, is now wrong.

[The Gipper]

31 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Baker is so much of a Golden child right now that he can do no wrong. To the point where our previous perfect son, Duke, is now wrong.

 

[Zombo]

On 6/7/2019 at 2:44 PM, laiccm said:

He got paid well in your opinion. He still has to manage that money for the rest of his life if the statistics ring true

Always about money.

Mayfield's attitude should stay inside his mouth. No business being some other player's pocket. No way players are okay with that.

If I'm being honest..............Baker is talking a lot for a 2nd year. When McNabb and Ben did it it was after years of playoffs and SB appearances.

Someone needs to tell him this doesn't end well if he continues...and Dorsey's response is kinda what set it off.

 

He's not in his pocket. Duke already got paid. Get your ass on the field and shut up and shut your people up. Be a professional.

We are payin ghim nicely and we need him for those first 8 games. Yes, his role will diminish after that. But Hunt is only on a one year contract, so why would the Browns just flush Duke who they just invested in?

Zombo

[Orion]

3 hours ago, Zombo said:

We are payin ghim nicely and we need him for those first 8 games. Yes, his role will diminish after that. But Hunt is only on a one year contract, so why would the Browns just flush Duke who they just invested in?

Two reasons.

a)  Dorsey didn't pay Duke

1)  Duke becomes a cancer - then he must go

2)  They really DO like Hilliard - as ballpeen attests  

......just a couple of years ago, this very same Duke Johnson, was the best offensive weapon on the team.

 

Landry...............x...x...x...x...x....Njoku...................OBJ

........Chubb...........Mayfield...........Johnson

[Zombo]

43 minutes ago, Orion said:

Two reasons.

a)  Dorsey didn't pay Duke

1)  Duke becomes a cancer - then he must go

2)  They really DO like Hilliard - as ballpeen attests  

......just a couple of years ago, this very same Duke Johnson, was the best offensive weapon on the team.

 

Landry...............x...x...x...x...x....Njoku...................OBJ

........Chubb...........Mayfield...........Johnson

Dorsey DID pay Duke, last summer.

That's the whole point.

Z

[Orion]

6 hours ago, Zombo said:

Dorsey DID pay Duke, last summer.

That's the whole point.

Z

ok, I stand (sit) corrected on point 'a'.  I thought it was the previous summer.

[gumby73]

What i don't get, is a lot of media reports have Hilliard now pushing ahead of Duke.That's not proven in pads..This is going to get tricky,but Dorse can control trade landing spot..    https://dawgpounddaily.com/2019/06/08/salary-cap-limits-browns-dukes-options/   Teams that have not started manditory camp,that i have read are Jags & Vikings need RB depth. Jets (were on list) but just signed B. Powell back, but new GM is now in place.If Gurley is still a knee concern? Rams, but i think they got no cap space..(6.7M) 

[Flugel]

7 hours ago, Zombo said:

Dorsey DID pay Duke, last summer.

That's the whole point.

Z

Precisely!  He paid Duke extremely well considering he was just a part time RB on a team that just went 1-31 prior to the extension.   As the RB position is getting stronger - Duke's workload is getting challenged by a stronger competition.  

Baker isn't the guy putting "I before team."  He's the one saying step onto the train your teammates are on - not in front of it.   When Baker showed up here as a 1st overall pick/talent - he was told he wouldn't play right away (if at all as a rookie).  He didn't have a public tantrum about it.  He shut his mouth and went to work.  When he got the chance to play - guess what he did?  He PROVED he deserved to start. He performed well enough for his teammates to view him as a credible leader.

IMO, Duke was a decent RB on a bad team. Now that we have a much improved team - decent doesn't cut it any more at least in terms of how reps are divided up. For example, Carlos Hyde was voted by his peers as 1 of the top 100 football players in the NFL prior to coming here.  When Nick Chubb also got the chance to play - he had 3 carries for over 100 yards against the Raiders where the only thing stopping 2 of those was the goal line.  The 5.2 yards per carry he was achieving left nobody (including Hyde) questioning his promotion to our work horse RB.  Hyde got traded and Duke remained decent; but not the to extent I understand his feeling of entitlement today.  We've always had RBs that can catch the ball well on 3rd downs whether it was Calvin Hill in his mid 30s, Greg Pruitt spelling Mike Pruitt late in his career, or the undrafted Herman Fontenot in 86. 

[Mudfly]

Personally dont think Baker said anything out of line or anything that would upset team mates. He simply said you're with us or you're not. There is no middle ground. And Duke needs to resolve that. 

He could have backed off the question and offered a weak kneed canned answer(like most players do), but thats not what strong leaders do. Leaders are not afraid........

I will say that Duke hasn't really done or said anything publicly that was out of line or whiny. He has always been a hard working, team player. Presumably, he has shown up(when mandated to) and is performing and working just like the other guys.....including our new girlfriend OBJ.....so, Im not gonna go after him, because the media is pushing a trade agenda that has yet to happen(and is now months? into the discussion).....

Ultimately, I think Duke will be gone. But, if he performs well and keeps his lip buttoned, I can see him sticking until Hunt has performed and is signed beyond this season.....

[Flugel]

On 6/6/2019 at 11:55 PM, Orion said:

Actually it's the fault of the Media......and Dorsey.   After the Hunt signing it was the Media that asked Dorsey if the Hunt signing made Duke expendable....and Dorsey answered, Not yet.

I think that would piss off most players.  Whaddaya mean, Not yet?  Is that the goal?  To make me expendable?    

If the Media doesn't ASK, or if Dorsey doesn't say the word Yet....the Duke situation would not be of this magnitude.  

 

I don't want this to come off as insulting because I enjoy the majority of your posts. Even when I don't agree with you - you make enough points to the extent I understand where you are coming from. In this case, I feel like you're choosing part of the picture over the bigger picture so hear me out. 

Do we really want Dorsey running a Sorority House more concerned about whose feelings are hurt today? Or, do we want him continuing to upgrade talent on the roster so we can finally talk playoff football for a refreshing change?  This involves guys proving they deserve their contracts within the challenge at hand.  Haven't we seen enough of where nice guys finish yet?  Dorsey is here trying to put that 1-31 football (that deserved complaints) far behind us as soon as possible. Feelings are going to get hurt; especially if someone that's being paid well for his limited role is being challenged to perform well enough to stay/help us improve.

Dorsey can answer the media any way he wants; especially if it's about a guy he just gave a raise/contract extension to as recently as 2018.  When Chubb emerged as our feature back (over Carlos Hyde that was ranked in the top 100 players the season before); Dorsey traded Carlos Hyde not Duke.  That's 2 different examples of Dorsey showing Duke he believes in him while you're making yourself more concerned about his "not yet" comment. Most players know the average length of NFL careers so they're wired not to question the "not yet" that begins the day they sign their 1st NFL contract. If you perform well - your career lives on.  Duke is getting 8 games to prove why Dorsey believed in him. I'd be more nervous that his actions show he feels threatened he can't handle it in lieu of a "I'll leave Dorsey no other choice but me" mentality.   Is it possible Duke also understands nobody wanted to give up anything on their roster to trade for him during the draft when they can just draft someone of equitable talent for a rookie contract?  The lad needs to dictate his worth to this team when he gets his opportunities this year. For example, when Nick Chubb got 3 carries for over 100 yards where only the goal line stopped 2 of them - guess who earned more playing time? 

I think we all know that the media DOES have to ask or their version of "not yet" changes to replaced by someone that does ask.