Right Guard - it’s not just deodorant

[Ibleedbrown]

Somehow the Corbett/right guard conversation has permeated through various threads. Someone (not me) suggested that it should be it’s own thread, and that’s a fine idea. I will do the 5 minutes of dirty work if no one else will.

To catch everyone up to speed...

Holy hell we wasted a hugely high draft pick on a baby faced O lineman who doesn’t seem to be turning into the building block we all expected!

And in the meantime we also signed a few guys who gutted their way through a less rosy path in the NFL and have earned their way to free agent contracts like Kush and Witzmann and Kalis, all of whom sport actual facial hair. 

I’m pulling for Kush. Forbes is out of the equation since he’ll be a starting Tackle sometime this year.

[choco]

corbett can be cut at this point and it wouldn't matter, except to the contingent hell bent on criticizing for the sake of criticizing.

[PoeticG]

Corbett was a very high, nearly first round pick. He learned under the Pros for a year and now it's his time to step in and contribute. 

Corbett as a rookie was not going to replace Zeitler in his first season. Z was a quality starter and a monster. I think that Corbett will eventually take over for Tretter when the time comes. Tretter is very good, he's only 28 years old. Corbett is 5 years younger than Tretter is... call it a contingency plan. Corbett for now is the swing man, and that's okay. He is the backup center and can also pop in and around the line and contribute. Can he pull off full time starter on the right side of the line somewhere? We will see soon enough.

[Ibleedbrown]

1 hour ago, choco said:

corbett can be cut at this point and it wouldn't matter, except to the contingent hell bent on criticizing for the sake of criticizing.

The Kush and Witzmann’s of the world are pretty much staring you into submission with what a few years of drive and determination can net. Sure, they could cut him. Blip on the radar and move on. Maybe he’s a late bloomer? Mitchell Schwartz was a reasonably high draft pick too but it seemed like it was year 3 before folks stopped calling for his head. 

[Orion]

6 hours ago, Ibleedbrown said:

Right Guard - it’s not just deodorant

...but it's certainly stinking over there, here in the early going.

From what I've read here and there Corbet seems to be doing just about everything wrong.  Coaches are trying to coach him up on hand placement, foot-work, punch...you name it.

He was a high draft pick, so he'll get some time......but he will have to show some kind of improvement from the 'coaching up' as this offseason, TC and preseason goes on.

[nickers]

So far.. I'd say Corbett is a BUST!

[jiggins7919]

We picked two guys I didn't understand, and we picked them early. Austin Corbett and Chad Thomas, 2nd and 3rd rounders respectively. Neither really played last year, and while these picks aren't always going to yield starters, you'd like to see them get on the field a bit more. 

The funniest thing to me is the eyeball test regarding Corbett and Zeitler. I realize you don't want to judge a book by its cover, but Corbett looks like he should be playing "Magic the Gathering" in the basement of his best friend's mother's house while arguing about which flavor Hot Pocket is the best. Zeitler, on the other hand, looks like he's about to go throw refrigerators over a mountain just for fun. 

All kidding aside, what scares me the most about Corbett not starting this early is that the pads AREN'T on. I mean, if he's not starting NOW, that means he can't remember plays, assignments, or get out of his own way. He's not even being asked to BLOCK anybody yet and he can't hold down the gig. I remember thinking we wanted Corbett to possibly take over for Tretter at Center, but that's kind of pointless because Tretter had himself a fine year and basically played hurt all season. You don't mess around with your Center when you have a 2nd year QB, either. 

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

We picked two guys I didn't understand, and we picked them early. Austin Corbett and Chad Thomas, 2nd and 3rd rounders respectively. Neither really played last year, and while these picks aren't always going to yield starters, you'd like to see them get on the field a bit more. 

The funniest thing to me is the eyeball test regarding Corbett and Zeitler. I realize you don't want to judge a book by its cover, but Corbett looks like he should be playing "Magic the Gathering" in the basement of his best friend's mother's house while arguing about which flavor Hot Pocket is the best. Zeitler, on the other hand, looks like he's about to go throw refrigerators over a mountain just for fun. 

All kidding aside, what scares me the most about Corbett not starting this early is that the pads AREN'T on. I mean, if he's not starting NOW, that means he can't remember plays, assignments, or get out of his own way. He's not even being asked to BLOCK anybody yet and he can't hold down the gig. I remember thinking we wanted Corbett to possibly take over for Tretter at Center, but that's kind of pointless because Tretter had himself a fine year and basically played hurt all season. You don't mess around with your Center when you have a 2nd year QB, either. 

I actually thought that Corbett was drafted to play Left Tackle...to sort of replace Joe Thomas.  Maybe that was a misperception?  or not?

[Orion]

3 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

what scares me the most about Corbett not starting this early is that the pads AREN'T on. I mean, if he's not starting NOW, that means he can't remember plays, assignments, or get out of his own way. He's not even being asked to BLOCK anybody yet and he can't hold down the gig

....in Corbert's defense, there's a new OL coach.  He's probably learning different stuff from last year under Wiley.  And I'm sure the playbook isn't exactly the same as last year (Todd Haley's...adapted by Kitchens).  And he's being asked to play a different position than he played in college).  -  Smartly, Dorsey brought in other OLinemen also.

[jiggins7919]

8 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I actually thought that Corbett was drafted to play Left Tackle...to sort of replace Joe Thomas.  Maybe that was a misperception?  or not?

That was certainly one option, as he obviously played LT in college, but nobody really had Corbett slotted as Tackle from what I understand. He doesn't have the right body style. 

[jiggins7919]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

....in Corbert's defense, there's a new OL coach.  He's probably learning different stuff from last year under Wiley.  And I'm sure the playbook isn't exactly the same as last year (Todd Haley's...adapted by Kitchens).  And he's being asked to play a different position than he played in college).  -  Smartly, Dorsey brought in other OLinemen also.

Yep, totally. I definitely don't want to write off the kid when we haven't even gotten pads on, but I sure would feel better if the early narrative was more optimistic! Go Brownies! 

[Tour2ma]

Agree that there's still time, but... OTAs are about more than playbook. Lotta tech work goes on with the OL and reports are that this is where Corbett's issues lie.

 

As for being drafted to replace Joe.... no.  Remember it was Bito that got the look there. While both are 6'4 at 81" Bito's wingspan is nearly 3" greater than Corb's...

[Flugel]

On 5/28/2019 at 11:45 AM, Ibleedbrown said:

Somehow the Corbett/right guard conversation has permeated through various threads. Someone (not me) suggested that it should be it’s own thread, and that’s a fine idea. I will do the 5 minutes of dirty work if no one else will.

To catch everyone up to speed...

Holy hell we wasted a hugely high draft pick on a baby faced O lineman who doesn’t seem to be turning into the building block we all expected!

And in the meantime we also signed a few guys who gutted their way through a less rosy path in the NFL and have earned their way to free agent contracts like Kush and Witzmann and Kalis, all of whom sport actual facial hair. 

I’m pulling for Kush. Forbes is out of the equation since he’ll be a starting Tackle sometime this year.

I remember posting my immediate concerns about the loss of Zeitler when we traded him to address of Dline that only had 2 very reliable starters on it (MG and Ogunjobi) and depth issues.  If we wondered why the Rats ran a 10k with the football on our last matchup with them - our dline was a big part of that.

I would have loved to keep Zeitler.  That said,  we can replace Joe Thomas and our RT  in 2018 and still achieve a better record than 1-31 football from 2016 and 2017 - we can overcome the loss of Zeitler.  How?  It can start by setting up a competition with vets possessing experience and starts as well as promising younger guys. 

This time last year, Robinson began the year as our backup RT (largely due to $ committed to Hubbard).  As the year unfolded, Robinson emerged as a reliable LT.  I think we have qualified contenders to make RG a solid spot for us.  Despite hearing Forbes will get a shot at OT - I still think some college tackles are better suited to play OG at the next level (ie; Eric Steinbach, Joel Bitonio, Marshal Yanda, Robert Gallery, Tony Madarach).  2 of those guys were criticized as Tackles but respected as Guards.  Forbes has ideal trapping and pulling skills as well as explosive assets that should cream of the crop his asss here to taking on the DTs from 320-350 lbs. 

All that said, stay tuned....

Edited June 1, 2019 by Flugel

[Unsympathetic]

Looks like Kalis has the pole position to RG starter as of today

One more link on Kalis

Gotta love UDFA's who knuckle their way to a career.. One thing we can say about Kalis is that he won't cost much.

[Orion]

As 'someone' would've said, 'The fat-ass offensive linemen are a dime a dozen'.  The defensive linemen get the ball back for your QB.

But  the OL is charged with Protecting your QB.  The DLinemen are not.  If your QB gets hurt,  you're sunk.  I hope we have someone who can man that RG position.

[Flugel]

For some reasons, I have a really good feeling about this kid.  Love the way he stays with his blocks and finishes people...  I think he could provide the reliability we need at RG to replace Zeitler with. 

 

[Tour2ma]

8 hours ago, Flugel said:

For some reasons, I have a really good feeling about this kid.  Love the way he stays with his blocks and finishes people...  I think he could provide the reliability we need at RG to replace Zeitler with. 

Looks more OT-ish to me... plays too high to handle NFL-grade DTs.

Coach Flugs would be all over him about standing up at the snap and hopping into any movement (wasted motion).

What I do like is that even with the wasted motion early he gets to smaller, quicker 2nd-level defenders consistently and eliminates them from the play without having to reach for them. That takes some quick feet.

[TexasAg1969]

I'm always a little leery of highlights, especially against far lesser competition than the NFL. But I do like how he is always looking around when he knocks one down and immediately searches for another to hit.

[Flugel]

11 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Looks more OT-ish to me... plays too high to handle NFL-grade DTs.

Coach Flugs would be all over him about standing up at the snap and hopping into any movement (wasted motion).

What I do like is that even with the wasted motion early he gets to smaller, quicker 2nd-level defenders consistently and eliminates them from the play without having to reach for them. That takes some quick feet.

Some good points Tour.  Thanks!  He does have a tendency to spring up too quickly into a higher pad height. 

Speaking of wasted steps.  What I could work with is he doesn't belly back when he pulls or traps. By staying tight to the line of scrimmage it reduces the steps and works well with his quick feet at getting there in time to be efficient.  I saw quite a few examples of that in the film.  What I don't like about pulling/trapping Guards and Tackles together is if the Tackle is quicker than the Guard,  it either slows up the Tackle or he trips over the Guard (which I could see happening in programs with less scholarships).   That makes life incredibly easy for the defenders that originally lined up across from them to swoop in behind them and stop the play for a loss. The hardest thing for newbies to it all is they don't always trust the linemen next to them are firing out so the tendency is to angle the first steps backward rather than than laterally.  "Coach what if someone gets jacked up backwards?"   Then you're not bei

A lot college Tackles have far less training at trapping and pulling than many of the Guards so it isn't uncommon to see some things that might need to be coached up.  The good news is that hop can be solved and improved in stances and starts.  That's where I learned how to do it as a teen back in the day.  If I can learn it - anybody can.  In fact, when I coached at the high school level in an offense that always had the guards on the move trapping and pulling - I don't remember too much difficulty with them picking it up. Teams knew we did a lot of that so it was our job to make sure we didn't have anyone in their stance leaning to tip off the play.  Part of that process, is having the right kids for the position.  The other part is teaching something to them that is very doable with practice and repetition.

All that said, Cleveland has had problems in the past with how quickly some college Tackles have picked up the art of tapping and pulling. The 1 guy that comes to mind was the late round small school pick with red hair and freckles that overcame a heart defect (whose name escapes me).  Anyway, injuries threw him in at LG next to Joe Thomas before he was ready.  I remembered seeing him belly back away from the line of scrimmage to the extent he collided with the playaction (fake handoff setting up the misdirection trap) and he smothered the whole thing in our backfield.  That's not the way you want to learn how to do it. If you're going to change a guy from Tackle to Guard in an offense that likes mis-direction traps or leading sweeps/bootlegs with a Guard - you better spend significant time on stances and starts at the beginning of the year or you've flushed the entire opportunity down the toilet IMO. Also, when you change a guy's position mid-season - he may not have all that down yet.  Then you gotta be patient with growing pains like I mentioned about the small school feller - while Cleveland was a place running out of patience at the time he turned a trap play into a football follie.

For whatever all that's worth, I think most of Forbes' issues are coachable. 

[Flugel]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I'm always a little leery of highlights, especially against far lesser competition than the NFL. But I do like how he is always looking around when he knocks one down and immediately searches for another to hit.

While true Aggies, is there any other way to find a Jerry Rice (Mississippi Valley State), Larry Allen (Sonoma State),  Leon Lett (Emporia State) , or Ali Marpet (Hobart) dominating competition enough for intrigue?    Isn't it also conceivable guys on DI powerhouse teams can get overrated like Trent Richardson, Dee Milliner, Chance Warmack, Vernon Gholston, Big Daddy Wilkinson, etc...

So what else should we look at regarding Forbes?   Size, strength, and the metrics assessing quickness, agility, explosion etc.  He ranked with elite in many of these except for wing span (which places him more at the position I think he can help us most at).

I like where we landed him in a round that says let's develop the lad.  That said, he might not require as much patience as we may think.  A lot of his things that need tweaking are very doable IMO. 

[TexasAg1969]

6 minutes ago, Flugel said:

While true Aggies, is there any other way to find a Jerry Rice (Mississippi Valley State), Larry Allen (Sonoma State),  Leon Lett (Emporia State) , or Ali Marpet (Hobart) dominating competition enough for intrigue?   

I have to agree with you there. I have a kid I've seen in middle school that has just made 2nd team HS RB as a 10th grader coming into this season on a team that lost the state finals in Jerryworld just the year before last in next to the highest level of HS Football. This kid is an absolutely amazing athlete who won district both in 7th & 8th grade playing QB and occasionally CB when they needed to steal the ball. My son says at practice a couple of weeks ago while a Tulsa coach was scouting a senior WR, he came to my son saying he was getting stopped by a very fast LB almost every play. My son's advice was to start his first move on the guy when he closed to about 10 yard. The kid is so quick and agile he is capable of Barry Sanders like multiple moves with that kind of distance. He went in, did as instructed and suddenly was running 30, 40 and 50 yard TDs. The Tulsa scout was absolutely flabbergasted by what he did after he heard my son tell him how to beat the LB and then watched him execute. Needless to say he's on that radar and before it's all over, if he stays healthy, he will be D1 bound. He's the fastest kid on the team and is only a few seconds under world record 400 m times just leaving 9th grade. Also set power lifting records for his weigh class. I don't want to put his name here, but I'm calling the A&M recruiters about him. He is something special and has one handed pass catching ability to top it all off. Once he commits to a college I'll give you his name to file away to keep up with at that level.

[gumby73]

Call me Crazy..lots have.. but i watch the video above & somebody just clicked in my head.(watch forbes QB get crushed at 6:25 👀 boom!,not on him) Reminded me of Forbes coming out of a bigger school. A.)Mystery X part 2, played C/G/LT till his Senior year at Nebraska. B.) He was 6'3" 305 at combine, benching 29 reps & played like a crazed Brian Bozworth on the OL. C.) Mystery X2 was drafted by the St Louis Rams in in 2005 in 3rd rd. pick 81..D.) Could you believe this guy scored a 32 on a wonderlic test?   On the field (only) I see a lot of  *Richie Incognito* coming out of Nebraska traits in Drew Forbes. Richie was asked to pull from everywhere his whole career (watch Richie's tape)  <<<   I 🙏 we stole Drew Forbes in 6th round to play LT..(swing Robinson back to RT) 

[TexasAg1969]

Just a followup on this kid who is just starting 10th grade. My son told me he just attended a UTSA football camp this weekend and ran a timed 40 in 4.43. That there is NFL speed.