OldBrownsFan Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: Fantastic, success is possible and nobody is doubting that. My argument is that the mother should still retain the legal right to not have to carry that baby. She didn't choose to be raped. Bottom line. Anything else and you're simply saying your God is the state and they should have complete say over your body. Dems = Repubs. Same coin just a different face. These cases are difficult and fortunately not the norm but let me ask you about cases that are not so difficult. Should a woman be allowed to have an abortion right up to time of delivery as New York and other states have done? Should a woman be allowed an abortion because the sex of the child is not what she preferred? Should a baby born alive after an attempted abortion be killed? The demonRats who always try to hide from the public what they really believe said at first after Roe they wanted abortions to be safe, legal and rare but they never meant that rare part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chemist Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 13 hours ago, Clevfan4life said: and u would force a woman, or girl in this case, to go through 9 months of despair with an operating table at the end, because of her fathers crime. Ur scum. This not the "procreation" jesus hsd in mind. This is the pure filth of swine. No more no less. So being pregnant is despair. A woman’s body doing what it was designed to do it despair? Crime is heinous. Victims of crime cannot always be made whole. It’s an unfortunate fact of life. The innocent do not need to be killed because of someone else’s crime. Don’t speak for Jesus. It’s clear you know nothing about his life or teachings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, hammertime said: The question which I posed was never about any Individual poster here, it was never about religion, it was never about the crime or the grim prospect of carrying an unwanted child to birth. the question never changed. If the raped kid doesn't want to carry the baby, they shouldn't have to. Simple enough for you to grasp. I don't think the kid will know what it missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Chemist said: So being pregnant is despair. A woman’s body doing what it was designed to do it despair? Crime is heinous. Victims of crime cannot always be made whole. It’s an unfortunate fact of life. The innocent do not need to be killed because of someone else’s crime. Don’t speak for Jesus. It’s clear you know nothing about his life or teachings. I like telling other people what to do as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 minute ago, LogicIsForSquares said: I like telling other people what to do as well. Face it, we all do. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 Just now, Westside Steve said: Face it, we all do. WSS Not all of us. I like mocking hypocrisy but hypocrites can live however they wish. I am not implying you are one but that we have a lot of people who complain about having others and the government having too much say in their lives then actively choose to try to exert their social values on everyone else. That is why I think both parties are full of shit including the people who treat politicians like they are heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said: If the raped kid doesn't want to carry the baby, they shouldn't have to. Simple enough for you to grasp. I don't think the kid will know what it missed. Then come right out with it and say how it is. You feel murder is justified in this case. Is that true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 minute ago, hammertime said: Then come right out with it and say how it is. You feel murder is justified in this case. Is that true? Murder and abortion are different. You can use whichever terms you wish. Call it super duper holocaust destructo-murder to frame your argument and it still isn't the same. If an expecting mother wrecks a car while speeding and miscarries, did she commit manslaughter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said: Murder and abortion are different. You can use whichever terms you wish. Call it super duper holocaust destructo-murder to frame your argument and it still isn't the same. If an expecting mother wrecks a car while speeding and miscarries, did she commit manslaughter? Different? Your killing a baby. How is that not murder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, hammertime said: Different? Your killing a baby. How is that not murder? Is that mother guilty of manslaughter? That will help you figure out the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, LogicIsForSquares said: Good luck. Another example of government overreach. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/against-parents-wishes-judge-rules-that-tampa-boy-with-leukemia-will-resume-chemotherapy-20190508/%3ftemplate=amp These parents are Retarded, but it's their right to seek what they feel best for their child. Whether I would find it as negligence/manslaughter is another topic entirely. (At worst forced sterilization) Now, I must ask - if you find this to be government over reach like myself, why do you not feel the same about the judge denying an 11 year old her choice to avoid carrying a child of rape? (Something forced upon her) not because of "inconvenience". Rape isn't "inconvenient"... (Rhetorical, the bulk of you are hypocrites and the alt profiles are on ignore) .... Like I said, I'm far more consistent in the application of my ideals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorka Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 2 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said: If an expecting mother wrecks a car while speeding and miscarries, did she commit manslaughter? Not sure, but if someone murders a pregnant woman and the baby dies he is charged with a double homicide is he not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorka Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 2 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said: Is that mother guilty of manslaughter? That will help you figure out the difference. If abortion was illegal, then yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorka Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, tiamat63 said: Good luck. Another example of government overreach. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/against-parents-wishes-judge-rules-that-tampa-boy-with-leukemia-will-resume-chemotherapy-20190508/%3ftemplate=amp These parents are Retarded, but it's their right to seek what they feel best for their child. Whether I would find it as negligence/manslaughter is another topic entirely. (At worst forced sterilization) Now, I must ask - if you find this to be government over reach like myself, why do you not feel the same about the judge denying an 11 year old her choice to avoid carrying a child of rape? (Something forced upon her) not because of "inconvenience". Rape isn't "inconvenient"... (Rhetorical, the bulk of you are hypocrites and the alt profiles are on ignore) .... Like I said, I'm far more consistent in the application of my ideals. Not so fast with the "hypocritical" bs. I'm not speaking for the others but I don't feel saving a kid from imminent death is govt overreach, no more than it is when social services pulls a kid out of an abusive household. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 28 minutes ago, Gorka said: Not sure, but if someone murders a pregnant woman and the baby dies he is charged with a double homicide is he not? Because it was against the will of the mother. It is a fuzzy area no doubt. If some people want the kid to be a legal person then in that scenario I laid out, the mom would be charged with manslaughter. I take the stance that because it is so morally fuzzy that I don’t feel I should be telling anyone what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 2 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said: Murder and abortion are different. You can use whichever terms you wish. Call it super duper holocaust destructo-murder to frame your argument and it still isn't the same. If an expecting mother wrecks a car while speeding and miscarries, did she commit manslaughter? two miles over the speed limit? or thirty miles over the speed limit? in heavy traffic or on a lonely highway? high speed - I can see a case for criminally negligent homocide. 95 mph on a highway, anywhere, would be wreckless endangerment every time. Would that be intent to commit? then that is worse than "manslaughter", if a wreck occurs. Two mph over any speed limit is NOT wreckless endangerment/criminally negligent homicide. I could have been a lawyer.... lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: two miles over the speed limit? or thirty miles over the speed limit? in heavy traffic or on a lonely highway? high speed - I can see a case for criminally negligent homocide. 95 mph on a highway, anywhere, would be wreckless endangerment every time. Would that be intent to commit? then that is worse than "manslaughter", if a wreck occurs. Two mph over any speed limit is NOT wreckless endangerment/criminally negligent homicide. I could have been a lawyer.... lol It is fuzzy because manslaughter is killing someone on accident while being intentionally or unintentionally negligent and/or while breaking the law (speeding). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, Gorka said: Not so fast with the "hypocritical" bs. I'm not speaking for the others but I don't feel saving a kid from imminent death is govt overreach, no more than it is when social services pulls a kid out of an abusive household. So we're to save people from themselves now in cases where the end result isnt in clear sight? You must be a proponent of red flag laws then. Since you feel the government has the ability to step in and say what is ultimately best for the individual. Again, the parents are seeking treatment. Just not the one their doctors would like to see. Do we not have the right to refuse a doctors recommendation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 The hypotheticals get crazy. Given the scenario where an "11 yr old gets raped" and is "held hostage by members who won't let her report it" etc etc etc so, she gets pregnant, gets an abortion. Later in life, the guilt gets to her - and she kills herself. Does that make abortion worth arguing over? Women Who Suffered Emotionally from Abortion: A Qualitative ... https://www.jpands.org/vol22no4/coleman.pdf by PK Coleman - 2017 - Cited by 3 - Related articles out to other women who were considering the procedure or had obtained an abortion. ... about termination of a life, regret, shame, guilt, depression, anxiety, compromised ... risks to the average woman deciding to terminate a pregnancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 People here have done an amazing job of not talking about the baby. There are no parallels when discussing putting to death an innocent child. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, hammertime said: People here have done an amazing job of not talking about the baby. There are no parallels when discussing putting to death an innocent child. You avoided answering the question of manslaughter and I repeatedly answered your question. Abortion and murder are not the same. No matter how hard you wish it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 32 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: The hypotheticals get crazy. Given the scenario where an "11 yr old gets raped" and is "held hostage by members who won't let her report it" etc etc etc so, she gets pregnant, gets an abortion. Later in life, the guilt gets to her - and she kills herself. Does that make abortion worth arguing over? Women Who Suffered Emotionally from Abortion: A Qualitative ... https://www.jpands.org/vol22no4/coleman.pdf by PK Coleman - 2017 - Cited by 3 - Related articles out to other women who were considering the procedure or had obtained an abortion. ... about termination of a life, regret, shame, guilt, depression, anxiety, compromised ... risks to the average woman deciding to terminate a pregnancy. But, it is their choice to make. I have known women who had abortions. It is never easy but they did what they felt they needed to do. No one else’s call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, hammertime said: People here have done an amazing job of not talking about the baby. There are no parallels when discussing putting to death an innocent child. The baby isnt mine to account for abortion or not - the right of the parents to make a decision is in question by me and nothing else. I've noted your pro life stance and asked you about the impending health risks to the 11 year old and the quality of life for not only her, but the baby and the child's parents. You have no answered any of those questions. Then you ignore the parallel I offered with the Florida couple being forced by the state to seek the medical treatment counter to their beliefs. So are we to respect religous and or personal freedom in thet case this time? It's easy for you to be black and white when you aren't to suffer the consequences of something for which you did not choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: The hypotheticals get crazy. Given the scenario where an "11 yr old gets raped" and is "held hostage by members who won't let her report it" etc etc etc so, she gets pregnant, gets an abortion. Later in life, the guilt gets to her - and she kills herself. Does that make abortion worth arguing over? Women Who Suffered Emotionally from Abortion: A Qualitative ... https://www.jpands.org/vol22no4/coleman.pdf by PK Coleman - 2017 - Cited by 3 - Related articles out to other women who were considering the procedure or had obtained an abortion. ... about termination of a life, regret, shame, guilt, depression, anxiety, compromised ... risks to the average woman deciding to terminate a pregnancy. There is no real "hypothetical" And I shouldn't have said that. This is damn near a concrete example. Did we forgot about the Castro girl kidnappings in your own backyard? There are real world implications here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 23 hours ago, tiamat63 said: I wouldn't bother, if you believe an 11 year old rape victim should be forced to keep a rapists child then I doubt you have any decent material. Good day. Plan B is a thing. But why would anyone be proactive when they could suffer the single most invasive, expensive, morally ambiguous, emotionally draining form of birth control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Cysko Kid said: Plan B is a thing. But why would anyone be proactive when they could suffer the single most invasive, expensive, morally ambiguous, emotionally draining form of birth control? Most 11 year old kidnapped raped victims don't get the shot to hit up Walgreens for Plan B, homie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 people who would force an 11 yr old girl to.go through with a pregnancy abd a rape one at that......honestly they should be dragged out to the curb and shot like rabbid dogs. Wheres the cutoff btw? what if she's 9? i mean u people are so spiritually befouled by ur fake sky ngr that u cant objectively look at reality and say "ok thats fucked". We can have a discussion about grown women who made their own decision......but an 11 yr old girl? ur not men anymore. Not an ounce of man about u. and i know that if it was y'alls 11 yr old daughter u would be desperate to get her an abortion....andvthats the most fucked up part about u shitstains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, tiamat63 said: Most 11 year old kidnapped raped victims don't get the shot to hit up Walgreens for Plan B, homie. they wouldnt be allowed to buy it anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Clevfan4life said: they wouldnt be allowed to buy it anyway... Notice the sarcastic tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 Just now, tiamat63 said: Notice the sarcastic tone. yeah, i know.....but these half breed imbeciles seem to need shit spoonfed like babies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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