Myles Garrett Agree or Disagree with DPOY?

[TexasAg1969]

 

[secondwave]

how could one even make a prediction this far out?

[calfoxwc]

AGREE. because:

1. The addition of a flip side killer DE in FA. Offenses will have to worry about both sides. and the middle.

2. With added depth at cb/s and lb, the Browns defense will be harder to throw on. No more wide open TE's coming across the middle, outrunning Collins.

3. Right now, Greedy is backing up Terrance Mitchell. I didn't know Mitchell had been a 7th round pick. His best time was 4.56 at his pro day - but he plays much faster than that with experience and work ethic. He's an OUTSTANDING guy for Greedy to learn behind.

      One of these days, later on? Greedy will end up opposite Ward at cb. Maybe Mitchell ends up at nickle back? Sounds pretty dangerous to me.

[Comeonman]

I couldn’t take the starting and stopping in the video to make it even halfway through. I agree with second wave though, stupid to make a prediction like that this early, especially with guys like Aaron Donald, JJ Watt etc in the league. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Tex still likes JFF.

[Mudfly]

DPOY??.....who knows....but...

He should perform better because:

1.  Less reps due to stronger offense.....rested stronger faster etc
2. Help on the DL, diminishing double teams.....
3. 3rd year player coming into his prime....
4. Playing from "ahead", meaning more opps to free lance and step on some throats.....

His numbers may NOT be better because.....

1. Less reps due to stronger offense......(cant get sacks from the sideline)(less tackles on 3 and outs)
2. Help on the DL may be diminishing opps for Myles
3. Never on the field, because the O will own the TOP going fwd
4. Might see a lot of late game prevent.....(would rather see us grinding it in, stepping on throats, running the score up)

[TexasAg1969]

The return of the Mudman!!

To me the only thing that matters is the overall # of sacs, fumbles and hurries into INT's this team causes as a unit. I think if they again try to concentrate on stopping Garrett, the whole defense improves. I expect to see double the team numbers in sacs, fumbles and INTs. Whether that leads to the DPOY makes no difference (I know that is reason for hanging by fellow aggies).🤩🚑

[Clevfan4life]

did anyone catch in that video where Myles said Williams restricted his pass rushing moves? Im……...I dunno right now. Im completely dumbfounded to put it mildly. If that's true.....and I would think for Myles to speak about it publically like that it must be.....I mean god damn now I wish we would have tarred and feathered GW on his way out. I told y'all I smelled some bullshit with this defense last year. Dudes were doing weird shit that I couldn't explain...….maybe this is why. Is GW that arrogant that he looks at a gifted rusher like Garrett and says nahh that toolbelt of pass rush moves you've been developing for years now..that's all bullshit. When any noob fan can see the best pass rushers in the NFL today and throughout history, develop a "repertoire" of moves. This is insane. Literally. It just can't be true.....a guy like Williams cannot be this stupid. 

[choco]

thats alot of words, most of which are projections and rambling...lol..like, GW is 'arrogant' as a reason for this decision.  not trying to bash ya c4l...but thats it?  arrogance?  you think that the level of nuance here?  

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, choco said:

thats alot of words, most of which are projections and rambling...lol..like, GW is 'arrogant' as a reason for this decision.  not trying to bash ya c4l...but thats it?  arrogance?  you think that the level of nuance here?  

I honestly don't know dude. Im trying to figure out why an accomplished defensive coordinator would nerf one of the most gifted pass rushers in the last decade or two. Telling the kid "you only need these two moves".....what is that? It's not stupidity, we know GW is not a stupid guy. 

[Clevfan4life]

as for the thread topic, don't sleep on Olivier Vernon. I think he might have a bustout year rushing opposite Garrett and having those DL's next to him. 

[Mudfly]

4 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

did anyone catch in that video where Myles said Williams restricted his pass rushing moves? Im……...I dunno right now. Im completely dumbfounded to put it mildly. If that's true.....and I would think for Myles to speak about it publically like that it must be.....I mean god damn now I wish we would have tarred and feathered GW on his way out. I told y'all I smelled some bullshit with this defense last year. Dudes were doing weird shit that I couldn't explain...….maybe this is why. Is GW that arrogant that he looks at a gifted rusher like Garrett and says nahh that toolbelt of pass rush moves you've been developing for years now..that's all bullshit. When any noob fan can see the best pass rushers in the NFL today and throughout history, develop a "repertoire" of moves. This is insane. Literally. It just can't be true.....a guy like Williams cannot be this stupid. 

Or....it's possible Williams was the reason for Garretts improvement to 13+ sacks last year.....maybe Garrett was wasting plays trying to get fancy and Williams coached him up cause he knew just what Garrett had to do to succeed. 

Know what you do well and master it.....I think that might have been Williams point.....

[Clevfan4life]

49 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

Or....it's possible Williams was the reason for Garretts improvement to 13+ sacks last year.....maybe Garrett was wasting plays trying to get fancy and Williams coached him up cause he knew just what Garrett had to do to succeed. 

Know what you do well and master it.....I think that might have been Williams point.....

with your standard run of the mill pass rushers, sure...get them good at one or two moves and you can get some pockets collapsing. With a talent like Garrett....I don't see the logic behind that. Let him react to what the tackle does. And as Garrett said in that video, he was becoming too predictable. Predictability is a bitch in the NFL. 

[choco]

kinda what i was thinking mud...keep it simple, get good at 2 moves, then start adding more.  better to be very good at a few things than ok at many.

[Canton Dawg]

4 hours ago, choco said:

kinda what i was thinking mud...keep it simple, get good at 2 moves, then start adding more.  better to be very good at a few things than ok at many.

Good point.

Kameron Wembley had his one move...dip the left shoulder speed rush on the outside.

We see how long that lasted in the NFL.

 

[Clevfan4life]

again, why would u tell a pass rushing savant like myles to stick with 2 moves? rookie season ok....but by his 2nd year u ougyta be taking the limiter off that race engine.

Joey had 20+ sacks by the end of his sophomore year....and u can be sure he got there by using more than 1 or 2 moves. Joey was a better run stopper than myles coming out of college, but myles was the overall more gifted pass rusher. Yeah joey prob benefitted from hsving melvin ingram on the other side.....but knowing myles wss being nerfed like that mskes me think he could have had as many or more sacks than joey by his 2nd year.

 

[TexasAg1969]

Vernon Olivier quietly leading this defensive team under the radar until we start ambushing offenses.  I predict he leads the team in sacks this year, which is a good thing since Garrett will get his quota too.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/05/what-new-brown-olivier-vernon-unheralded-game-changer-thinks-of-john-dorseys-plan-doug-lesmerises.html

 

[domcucch1994]

He will be a sack machine, probably 12-15 sacks, 10 is the least he may get, but i disagree with him being DPOY.. Unless he puts up Aaron Donald numbers.

He is my choice for DPOY.. That guy is gonna be a problem vs us..

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

On 5/16/2019 at 9:02 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

Vernon Olivier quietly leading this defensive team under the radar until we start ambushing offenses.  I predict he leads the team in sacks this year, which is a good thing since Garrett will get his quota too.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/05/what-new-brown-olivier-vernon-unheralded-game-changer-thinks-of-john-dorseys-plan-doug-lesmerises.html

If he does, it’s likely due to the double teams that Garrett will be drawing.

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

If he does, it’s likely due to the double teams that Garrett will be drawing.

go look at his 2018 tape dude. Not that I want myles to get hurt...but if he does, im still comfortable with our edge rush with Vernon on one side and likely Avery and Smith getting more reps. Vernon is an absolute terror. He might be slightly more athletic than Myles. Myles is bigger tho. NY lined up Vernon as a LB'er a lot...I even saw a few reps at MLB'er. You'd think a guy that would be fast enough to do that wouldn't have the size and strength to line up at DE most of the time. But he does. And he holds the edge like a boss. Watch his tape where he runs sideline to sideline. Watch Dallas have to double him. Honest to god I more understand NY parting ways with OBJ than I do Vernon. 

[Clevfan4life]

i'll even go so far as to say just based off last years tape....Vernon might be a bit more powerful and explosive than Myles. Vernon's also 28 and is fully matured. Myles is still gonna get faster and stronger if he stays healthy and in the league. I'll reserve full judgement till I see Vernon and Myles come off the line opening day......but Vernon really is something special

[gumby73]

Good Stuff Cleve..I invite anyone to go back to the final Ravens game & watch how many times the Rat turds ran a dive read off block play behind Marshal Yanda..Vernon will read the hell out of that in his office..The Chargers running all over our outside edges should get turned inside..Where Schobert /Wilson or Taki have to make tackles..Yanda was that close to retiring after last season..did not happen..that dude is a damn Bear..

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

3 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

go look at his 2018 tape dude. Not that I want myles to get hurt...but if he does, im still comfortable with our edge rush with Vernon on one side and likely Avery and Smith getting more reps. Vernon is an absolute terror. He might be slightly more athletic than Myles. Myles is bigger tho. NY lined up Vernon as a LB'er a lot...I even saw a few reps at MLB'er. You'd think a guy that would be fast 

I don’t need to look at tape. I know who Vernon is and I loved the acquisition from the second it happened. You’re not the only person who holds an opinion about Vernon. Our defense has the potential to be great. I am 100% aware.

[Clevfan4life]

22 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I don’t need to look at tape. I know who Vernon is and I loved the acquisition from the second it happened. You’re not the only person who holds an opinion about Vernon. Our defense has the potential to be great. I am 100% aware.

oh I know, my only point was this guy could lead the team in sacks with or without myles on the other side. He's that freakin good. He rushed in NY with JPP who was already on the down side of his career and they also had no help inside on that defense. Now that he has the front 4 that the browns do, I agree with you...left most 1v1 he could have a career year. Honestly when you see his tape im shocked he never had more than 11.5 sacks in a season. The dude is not just crazy quick but also ridiculously strong. Maybe he's just the product of having played on bad teams I dunno. 

[Clevfan4life]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

Good Stuff Cleve..I invite anyone to go back to the final Ravens game & watch how many times the Rat turds ran a dive read off block play behind Marshal Yanda..Vernon will read the hell out of that in his office..The Chargers running all over our outside edges should get turned inside..Where Schobert /Wilson or Taki have to make tackles..Yanda was that close to retiring after last season..did not happen..that dude is a damn Bear..

well yeah they're not gonna do that this year against a healthy jobi and Richardson. Yanda is a beast tho...can't believe that dude is 34 and still one of the best guards in the game. Ravens tackles are garbage but that interior OL is legit. That's why I hope we get McCoy because those 3 rotating in means those two Ravens games won't wear our interior DL down. Cause that's all they're gonna do is inside power runs. Seeing how Vernon was stacking up tackles with the Giants, dudes with 60lbs on him.....I mean wtf? At 260 you shouldn't be able to pop 320 lb men around like they're blocking dummys. 

speaking of 260lb abnormally strong dudes.....that MI St kid Willekes...I know he's going back to St after he broke his leg. But that's a kid I hope could end up with the good guys at some point. 

[TexasAg1969]

7 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

If he does, it’s likely due to the double teams that Garrett will be drawing.

 

2 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I don’t need to look at tape. I know who Vernon is and I loved the acquisition from the second it happened. You’re not the only person who holds an opinion about Vernon. Our defense has the potential to be great. I am 100% aware.

Because defenses have often focused on stopping Vernon, now he has the luxury of defenses trying to continue focusing on Garrett. That's exactly why I think he will lead the team in sacks and together they will lead the league as a duo the way Miller and Ware did at Denver. This is gonna be a fun team to watch both sides of the ball for sure. A nightmare for the opposition!

[Clevfan4life]

2 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

 

Because defenses have often focused on stopping Vernon, now he has the luxury of defenses trying to continue focusing on Garrett. That's exactly why I think he will lead the team in sacks and together they will lead the league as a duo the way Miller and Ware did at Denver. This is gonna be a fun team to watch both sides of the ball for sure. A nightmare for the opposition!

because o lines wont be able to kick out guards to help the tackles....those two might eclipse miller and ware. And if tgey dont its simply due to qb's getting rid of tge ball as soon as the 3rd step drops. Thats why i came around fully on dorsey after whst i thougyt were questionable defensive moves last year. He knew if he got myles and ogunjobi running mates...that the secondary was gonna jump off on some routes and he made sure to get help there too. And if we get mccoy this math gets better. God...imagine if we'd gotten thomas? Thomas, ward and willisms just gettin greedy on those quick routes....it would be stupid.

[gumby73]

Only 12 players remain on the top Nfl.com 101 FA list. Maybe only 6 fit our team list. 1.DT Suh(rank #12) 2.CB Claiborne (#50) 3.DT C.Liuget(#69) 4.DT Moe Wilkerson(#88) 5.CB/S Eric Berry(#93) 6. Edge Nick Perry(#97).Loads of high injury risk but Suh on that list remaining . Not sure one team will take on a McCoy contract at his age & time on his deal left? So teams lineup to wait for TB to cut him. I may look at this maybe a little differently than media..This was a Defensive draft. 23 DE's & 22 DT's just got drafted. 12 DL-men were drafted in 1st rd.. 7 of them were DT. Tack on many DE's/DT's that just got added by teams as UDFA's..Many,Many bottom of the roster guys are soon to be cut.some sure surprises await. Are they better than the likes of Coley,Price or Devaroe Lawrence? We shall see but I do think JD really likes all 3? Devaroe Lawrence we gave the Saints a 7th round pick for. I get that's not much. But he was re-signed to a small 2 year deal to hopefully stay injury free & prove what he had going on at Saints before injury..It's still only May, and loads of players will get shuffled..Hold your Cards for the best Dorsey..    

[Clevfan4life]

tell u what.....if dorsey isnt sold on genard...nick perrys a heck of a ball plsyer.

[gumby73]

25 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

tell u what.....if dorsey isnt sold on genard..

Where is this ^^ coming from? who's reporting? I don't feel JD has any grief on drafting Avery? but now in Wilks 2 more than 3 LB system, where does the mystery of Chad Thomas & Avery lineup maybe more the issue..Mack Wilson & Taki will see playing time also..I like all these new problems