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Gerald McCoy signs with Panthers

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On 5/22/2019 at 8:59 PM, The Gipper said:

Nothing...the problem is that he apparently is using ancient thinking that the Browns are not a team that could challenge for a title.

Not true at all Gips!   He knows where Baker put his alma mater and how he jumper cabled this franchise to just 8 losses from an 0-16 record the year before as a rookie.  Anyway, if it was reported 10 teams were interested in you - would it be wise to just visit the 1st team that might not be willing to pay you nearly what others could and accept their very 1st offer?  

On the radio here, the hosts like to remind fans that fail to appreciate McCoy's 6 Pro Bowl efforts on the field all he's done for the community off the field - exactly how long Suh remained without interest in free agency in comparison to how many teams are competing for McCoy at this time. 

My guess is McCoy will visit a few teams interested in him and pick the best blend of money and post season opportunity.  That should make Cleveland a finalist IMO. However, I think our biggest challenge (besides Ratville) is him wanting to stay in Tampa's division so he can face them twice a year.  And I thought our fanbase used to be brutal toward the little feller Colt McCoy.  If you heard the Hatefields and Hatfields on the sports radio down here - they make it sound like this McCoy is Oklahoma's biggest bust since the Boz.  And that's the kind of sting that might land him in Carolina or New Orleans.  Although New Orleans doesn't have a whole lotta money left to pay a 31 year old DT somewhere between 11 and 13 million $ this year.

 

Edited by Flugel

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Should we sign McCoy, then I wonder if Ogun becomes trade bait for OL help...

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Should we sign McCoy, then I wonder if Ogun becomes trade bait for OL help...

I have trouble seeing that playing out.  Especially in regards to the long term outlook on the Dline.   Trading a cheap and effective player growing into his own in just a 3rd season?   I compare him favorably to Michael Brockers.   I also don't think the return on a potential trade would net us a player that has flashed at his spot like Larry has so far.

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3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Should we sign McCoy, then I wonder if Ogun becomes trade bait for OL help...

Why would we trade Ogunjobi?.. He's younger than McCoy.. That makes absolutely no sense Tour...

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22 minutes ago, nickers said:

Why would we trade Ogunjobi?.. He's younger than McCoy.. That makes absolutely no sense Tour...

It makes sense when you're in the "win now" fever Dorsey has caught.   If he thinks he can bring in somebody as an upgrade to Tretter or Hubbard especially.    Jobi is a decent young bargaining chip.   But like I said earlier, my concern is the return on investment in such a trade.  

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4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Should we sign McCoy, then I wonder if Ogun becomes trade bait for OL help...

That would be the same to me as thinking Chubb becomes a bargaining chip when Hunt comes in. I love the idea of having such talented depth. Keep em all!!!!!!!!!

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11 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

“Win now fever” does not equate trading players who’ve shown tremendous potential at an early stage in their career. 

Jabrill Peppers says "Hi".  

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6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Should we sign McCoy, then I wonder if Ogun becomes trade bait for OL help...

I don't see that playing out at all. We love Ogunjobi and we want McCoy to help fill out our DL rotation. That's how I see it anyway. We also have to keep in mind that injuries happen all the time, and we got gashed by the run too many times last year. We're going to try and stack up our line as best as possible, and signing McCoy would enable us to rotate several QUALITY linemen in and out during the game. Nobody else would have anything like our lineup, and keeping linemen fresh could pay off big time. 

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McCoy 2018 - AGE 31

Games 14 Sacks 6 Solo tackles 17 Forced Fumble 0

Ogunjobi 2018 AGE 24

Games 16 Sacks 5.5 Solo tackles 33 Forced Fumble 1

Nope. Not seeing it. You KEEP Ogunjobi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Should we sign McCoy, then I wonder if Ogun becomes trade bait for OL help...

I hope not.   Ogunjobi had a really good year for us in 2018.   Plus, while upside continues to unfold with him - his first contract is very cap friendly.

Signing Richardson upgraded the other DT spot. 

IMO, adding McCoy where he is at today in terms of age + wear and tear means he can help us most rotating in with the 2 younger starters.  Keep em all fresh and they should all just get better IMO.   We needed more talent and depth at DT and the trio of Ogunjobi, Richardson and McCoy brings us that...

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Should we sign McCoy, then I wonder if Ogun becomes trade bait for OL help...

im usually not lurching forward in my chair from ur posts tour.....but this one made me jump. Under no circumstsnces do we ship out Jobi. McCoy is very competent "depth" at this point....he's not going to be as productive anymore getting all the reps. The reason u bring him in is to make sure jobi and richardson are near 100% for the playoffs. 

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43 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

😂 OBJ says “Hi”

Sometimes painful decisions are made to make the team better.

Point being, sacrificing good players for players Dorsey feels might be good to great is something he is clearly willing to do.

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9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Should we sign McCoy, then I wonder if Ogun becomes trade bait for OL help...

OK,  I can help with that answer:

NO

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6 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Peppers sucked,.

Playing in another area code his rookie year? What did you expect?  

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8 hours ago, hoorta said:

Playing in another area code his rookie year? What did you expect?  

I really would have liked to see him with us in his 3rd year. Especially at his correct position and with another DC. He was so terrific in that Broncos game, I won't forget it. Now obviously ONE game doesn't make someone a great player, but he was still amazing and was basically the reason we won. Still, it's fair to say he didn't live up to hype, whether it's fair or not. I totally wish him the best and I liked his fire and passion. 

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I get the above Ogun love... I really do....  but as I wrote in the Depth Chart thread, so far Corbett ain't cutting it in OTAs. So if Ogun's departure results in an upgrade of our OL in return, then it's a move which may need to be made.

If we can't run effectively, then we goes nowhere in 2019.

If we go nowhere in 2019, then this locker room could disintegrate and the window that could have been may never be.

 

Still plenty of time... Austin or another OG still might emerge and be "adequate", but this kind of thinking has to start now.

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17 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I get the above Ogun love... I really do....  but as I wrote in the Depth Chart thread, so far Corbett ain't cutting it in OTAs. So if Ogun's departure results in an upgrade of our OL in return, then it's a move which may need to be made.

If we can't run effectively, then we goes nowhere in 2019.

If we go nowhere in 2019, then this locker room could disintegrate and the window that could have been may never be.

 

Still plenty of time... Austin or another OG still might emerge and be "adequate", but this kind of thinking has to start now.

I haven't had time to check into OTA's so I appreciate the update.     Dorsey ridding the Oline of interior quality in favor of upgrading the perimeter talent was always a concern of mine.    Reeks of the Falcons before they got the Oline issues fixed.  Most especially issues right up the middle when you have a younger QB of a 'shorter' stature.  

edit:  I am curious if Corbett's struggles are with the overall physicality of the position or something more technique oriented such as shortening up the footwork and using better leverage to his advantage?   The latter can come in time with the coaching... the former? - either you got it or you ain't got it.   Might qualify him for a RT project?   Won't speculate too much until I see these things with my own eyes at training camp though.

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18 hours ago, Flugel said:

I hope not.   Ogunjobi had a really good year for us in 2018.   Plus, while upside continues to unfold with him - his first contract is very cap friendly.

Signing Richardson upgraded the other DT spot. 

IMO, adding McCoy where he is at today in terms of age + wear and tear means he can help us most rotating in with the 2 younger starters.  Keep em all fresh and they should all just get better IMO.   We needed more talent and depth at DT and the trio of Ogunjobi, Richardson and McCoy brings us that...

I seem to recall Jobi got off to a really hot start last year, like in the conversation for best performing DTs in the game the first few weeks, but then cooled off a bit. Still a solid season all told, but l wonder if he and the team would have benefitted from a little more rotational help in the middle?

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34 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

I get the above Ogun love... I really do....  but as I wrote in the Depth Chart thread, so far Corbett ain't cutting it in OTAs. So if Ogun's departure results in an upgrade of our OL in return, then it's a move which may need to be made.

If we can't run effectively, then we goes nowhere in 2019.

If we go nowhere in 2019, then this locker room could disintegrate and the window that could have been may never be.

 

Still plenty of time... Austin or another OG still might emerge and be "adequate", but this kind of thinking has to start now.

But I don’t think you weaken an Area of strength just to strengthen an area of weakness 

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17 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

But I don’t think you weaken an Area of strength just to strengthen an area of weakness 

The problem is, that area of weakness puts your young QB directly in its crosshairs. 

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I thought Duke Johnson is our trading ace the hole if we need a trading piece?..Hillard has already filled that role & for some reason? imo, Duke won't show-up for manditory camp either? We will get what we get at that point. If i remember the Wilks system from the Panthers run in 2013? Ogun ain't going anywhere..A rotational DT was huge getting Star Lotulelei & Ki Ki Short wind till the championship quarter..the 4th..Wilks gets pressure from his front 4..rotating will matter at DT & DE's..The Passing attack of games, has surely moved Wilks to a more of a 2 LB'er set seen in Zona. Wilks won't show his cards in preseason games, like many teams..But believe what you read in the nitro LB//that truely at times was the role of Peppers at Michigan..S Jermaine Whitehead from what i read loves this new role..Now let's see who whats to tackle..Mack Wilson from Bama had to be a Wilks pick after Taki.. Watch Wilson to get used more than Taki if Wilks has his choice..Am really getting excited to see this defense..Can't wait..meanwhile here's the checkbook balancing while McCoy takes his rightful visits..  https://expo.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2019/05/682369c7e92820/how-the-cleveland-browns-can-afford-to-chase-gerald-mccoy-doug-lesmerises-3rd-short.html      <<fixed to now open                  

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17 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

I If i remember the Wilks system from the Panthers run in 2013? Ogun ain't going anywhere..A rotational DT was huge getting Star Lotulelei & Ki Ki Short wind till the championship quarter..the 4th..Wilks gets pressure from his front 4..rotating will matter at DT & DE's..The Passing attack of games, has surely moved Wilks to a more of a 2 LB'er set seen in Zona. Wilks won't show his cards in preseason games, like many teams..But believe what you read in the nitro LB//that truely at times was the role of Peppers at Michigan..S Jermaine Whitehead from what i read loves this new role..Now let's see who whats to tackle..Mack Wilson from Bama had to be a Wilks pick after Taki.. Watch Wilson to get used more than Taki if Wilks has his choice..Am really getting excited to see this defense..Can't wait..meanwhile here's the checkbook balancing while McCoy takes his rightful visits..  https://www.cleveland.com/sports/g66l-2019/05/682369c7e92820/how-the-cleveland-browns-can-afford-to-chase-gerald-mccoy-doug-lesmerises-3rd-short.html              

Wilks wasn't the DC, that was McDermmott.    He was...  *googles*  - DB's coach.

 

edit:  that is a fair point - Duke could be that trade piece.  I just hate to see him go.  He can do things in the receiving game that I don't feel Hunt and Hilliard are capable of.

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45 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Wilks wasn't the DC, that was McDermmott.    He was...  *googles*  - DB's coach.

sure it was Mcgerm-mott's Defense..And Al Holcomb is now our LB coach, same at panthers & it seems the former Wilks panthers secondary coach has that same format working at camp in cleveland.I'm scared to death on the pattern match zones early, but Am excited to see the Wilks new tweaks.. 

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Just now, gumby73 said:

sure it was Mcgerm-mott's Defense..And Al Holcomb is now our LB coach, same at panthers & it seems the former Wilks panthers secondary coach has that same format working at camp in cleveland.I'm scared to death on the pattern match zones early, but Am excited to see the Wilks new tweaks..and maybe fixing this attached link above that won't open 🤔 

I'm not too worried about the defense as a whole, just the linebackers.      Statistically I think we take a good step forward vs limiting the run, but I can't see us generating the turnovers we did last year especially at the pace the first 5 or 6 games saw.   Although that might not be anywhere near as necessary if we're getting offenses off the field on 3rd down and being more stingy in the redzone (as we absolutely need to be)

 

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1 hour ago, tiamat63 said:

The problem is, that area of weakness puts your young QB directly in its crosshairs. 

I didn't say do not improve an area of weakness....I said do not weaken an area of strength. 

Beyond that:   A. McCoy has NOT chosen the Browns....he could choose any one of 10 other teams....so it is completely premature to talk like he is here.

B.  Ogunjobi is like 8 years younger than McCoy.   And in my opinion it is better to keep him than to sign McCoy...if the choice is that we can only have one or the other.  I choose Ojo.   The better choice would be to have both.  Fair to say?

C. I also see where Dorsey HAS made a serious attempt to bolster the OL.   He did pick up Kush, Lamm and Witzmann....in attempt to strengthen what we all may perceive to be a weakness.   Now, I will leave the evaluation of these players to others on here who think they know offensive linemen..and maybe they do.  But these were moves made by Dorsey to improve this OL....and as far as I am concerned, we have to trust Dorsey's judgment in that area.  You know...that area being football talent.  I think he has done pretty well so far.  Does he hit 100%? No.....but between Corbett, Robinson, Lamm, Kush, Witzmann, Hubbard, Harrison, Robinson, Forbes...all selected by Dorsey...in addition to holdovers Bitonio and Tretter.....I am certainly trusting that he has brought in and has beeen able to identify some pretty workable pieces on the OL.      And that is not to say that he is finished there either.

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

I didn't say do not improve an area of weakness....I said do not weaken an area of strength. 

Beyond that:   A. McCoy has NOT chosen the Browns....he could choose any one of 10 other teams....so it is completely premature to talk like he is here.

B.  Ogunjobi is like 8 years younger than McCoy.   And in my opinion it is better to keep him than to sign McCoy...if the choice is that we can only have one or the other.  I choose Ojo.   The better choice would be to have both.  Fair to say?

C. I also see where Dorsey HAS made a serious attempt to bolster the OL.   He did pick up Kush, Lamm and Witzmann....in attempt to strengthen what we all may perceive to be a weakness.   Now, I will leave the evaluation of these players to others on here who think they know offensive linemen..and maybe they do.  But these were moves made by Dorsey to improve this OL....and as far as I am concerned, we have to trust Dorsey's judgment in that area.  You know...that area being football talent.  I think he has done pretty well so far.  Does he hit 100%? No.....but between Corbett, Robinson, Lamm, Kush, Witzmann, Hubbard, Harrison, Robinson, Forbes...all selected by Dorsey...in addition to holdovers Bitonio and Tretter.....I am certainly trusting that he has brought in and has beeen able to identify some pretty workable pieces on the OL.      And that is not to say that he is finished there either.

Nice job with that Gips!

I don't think the offensive line is nearly as weak as some are making it out to be.  Last year, the big worry/concern offensively was LT especially if we were ever going to put our 1st overall pick and investment on the field.    I'll get to that in a second.

The best record Cleveland ever had with the trio of Joe Thomas, Alex Mack and Mitch Schwartz was 7-9. 2 of those guys made the Pro Bowl while Schwartz played well.  Now all of a sudden, Cleveland improves from 0-16 to 7-8-1 (and 7-6 during games their rookie QB played in) in 2018. How does that happen if our offensive line is weak? Another rookie in our offense RB Nick Chubb had 9 starts, averaged over 5.2 yards a carry and finished with 996 yards rushing and 8 TDs on the ground. Again, I'm not seeing the weakness on the oline.  Were there times they could have been more consistent?    Sure, just like all areas of the team right? 

So, last year the worry about this team was Left Tackle and what had been done to replace Joe Thomas. The concern was we only had Bitonio feeling his best NFL niche is OG, 1 undrafted FA Harrison; and if those didn't work we were going to have to try to tap what the Rams couldn't via former 2nd overall pick Greg Robinson. Who knew the best prize would be behind door #3?  This year we shift this worry to RG and what had been done to replace Zeitler.  Only this time, it looks like the FO added a few guys that started games in 2018 as well as a promising young prospect like Forbes to set up quite a challenge for the starting job at RG. There's also the possibility Corbett emerges as the guy they thought they drafted, which wouldn't suck.  As we've seen over the years, not everyone emerges immediately especially on the offensive line.   This year we only have to replace 1 starter on the offensive line compared to replacing 2 starters in 2018 (and 1 of those was a LT with 10 Pro Bowls).  I think our FO can do it.

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5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

If we can't run effectively, then we goes nowhere in 2019.

Zeitler also allowed the lowest pressure per snap rate in the league for guards last season [bitonio #3 least].. this justifies all the FA OL good at passpro.

Chubb last season had the most yards per snap after contact of any RB since PFF started charting.. and even if that stat reverts to the mean [One, nobody we plug in would be as good as Zeitler and Two, Chubb had a once-in-a-lifetime season last year] I won't be shocked if we don't appear to "run effectively" next season.

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