Greedy Williams

[Vagitron]

Landry is solid but also overrated. 

7 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

A bag of ferrets over Vagitron.  

Landry is solid, he's just overrated. He's been force fed targets his entire career. Now he will be in an offense with another mouth to feed and I expect him to be less productive. I wouldn't put him inside the top 20 and his force fed production is why he's been in pro bowls because frankly the pro bowl is fucking dumb.

[The Gipper]

58 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Landry is solid but also overrated. 

Landry is solid, he's just overrated. He's been force fed targets his entire career. Now he will be in an offense with another mouth to feed and I expect him to be less productive. I wouldn't put him inside the top 20 and his force fed production is why he's been in pro bowls because frankly the pro bowl is fucking dumb.

Then to your mind all those Hall of Famers I listed who were possession receivers were overrated as well.  

See, again, you display your complete lack of knowledge about the intricacies of the game of football.  All you see are the guys that run down the field with the faste 40 times.  You are either ignorant of, or dismiss the value of POSSESSING the ball.   Of making first downs.  Of sustaining drives.

Whether the Pro Bowl is dumb or not.....a guy that averages about 90-100 catches a year and a first down every time he touches the ball is certainly not dumb.  Sure...it is great to have a speed burner...a home run threat who can strike fear into opposing defenses.  But it is equally valuable to have that possession guy.

Of course, for your team..and anyone who plays the Browns,  it will actually be in double/triple jeopardy.  The Browns have 2 speed burners, OBJ and Calloway.  And while you are concentrating on them, you have Landry there to work the middle and sides 10-12 yards down the line.  (not even mentioning the TE). 

I mean, its curious that you place no value on a possession receiver, because you had a very good one at one time.  When Hines Ward wasn't being the cheap shot artist, he was actually a very good possession receiver.  He was certainly no speed burner.  So, apparently by your standards, he too was overrated.

Or, rather, actually...what it shows is just how dumb you are.  Do the Browns have a lot  of mouths to feed, resulting in perhaps Landry getting fewer catches?  Perhaps. When you got OBJ/Calloway/Higgins/Njoku and even Duke Johnson (still)...that is a lot of people to spread the ball to...and they all will want there share, sure.  But that does not make that possession receiver less valuable....perhaps more so.  This is not even to mention the running game we will have with Chubb (better than anything you have)....and at some point Hunt (better than anything you have), and Duke at times as well.

OK, I think that the Browns will just have to average like 40 points per game to keep all these guys at their top level of productivity.   So be it. 

Winter is Coming.....and it is clad in Brown and Orange.

[calfoxwc]

7 hours ago, nickers said:

Lets break it down to the lowest common denominator.. Who do you trust more.. Vagitron or John Dorsey? .... I rest my case!!!...

It's one thing to be biased, I'm a homer, a bunch of us are. But to go on another team board, and say stupid-ass comments to get them annoyed...is just a way to get negative attention. I wish vegiblog would learn more about football, back up his comments with some actual relevant facts (thereby reducing the number of really ignorant stupid ass retorts of his own making), and we could all get back to talking real football,

    instead of vegimatic talking ignorant crap.

I trust any of my fishing rods to know more about pro football than vegitron.

[nickers]

2 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Landry is solid but also overrated. 

Landry is solid, he's just overrated. He's been force fed targets his entire career. Now he will be in an offense with another mouth to feed and I expect him to be less productive. I wouldn't put him inside the top 20 and his force fed production is why he's been in pro bowls because frankly the pro bowl is fucking dumb.

I see.. Pro Bowls only count when Stooler boys get voted in.. Gotcha!

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Landry is solid but also overrated. 

Landry is solid, he's just overrated. He's been force fed targets his entire career. Now he will be in an offense with another mouth to feed and I expect him to be less productive. I wouldn't put him inside the top 20 and his force fed production is why he's been in pro bowls because frankly the pro bowl is fucking dumb.

Here's an advanced concept for ya Vag, now follow along if you can....  Landry was the best WR on two different teams, offensive coordinators want to get the ball in the hands of their best WR as often as possible. DUH!!!! 

YOU might not put him in the top 20- but just about everyone else would. He certainly is getting paid like one. I don't see his production going down this year, because with Beckham getting double teamed most of the time, Landry will be open on almost every play- and Baker has a knack for finding the open guy.  Sure, Jarvis would be the #2 wr behind a guy like Julio Jones, and as he will behind OBJ- but that doesn't make him just "solid".  Guess by your logic that makes Ju-Ju just "solid" because he was the #2 behind Antonio Brown.    

Yup. as Gipper pointed out that cheap shotting Hines Ward is way overrated if that's your yardstick for WRs.   

 

 

[choco]

but, AB was one of the greatest receivers ever, despite being force fed the ball.  🙄

jesus christ he talks in circles. argument changes with the wind... 

[Vagitron]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

I see.. Pro Bowls only count when Stooler boys get voted in.. Gotcha!

I think the pro bowl is stupid period. 

[The Gipper]

15 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

I think the pro bowl is stupid period. 

That it is played at all, perhaps.   But being named to the Pro Bowl is the equivalent of being named to the "All Star Team" in other sports.   If they would just name an "All Star Team" without playing an All Star game that could be better, maybe And being named an All Star certainly has merit. 

The only real proper All Star Game is the baseball All Star game....because it is the only one that is played the same as real games. The others have players that just do a show.  Play no defense, get slap happy etc. 

[nickers]

23 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

I think the pro bowl is stupid period. 

We believe your STUPID!.. PERIOD!!

[Vagitron]

2 hours ago, choco said:

but, AB was one of the greatest receivers ever, despite being force fed the ball.  🙄

jesus christ he talks in circles. argument changes with the wind... 

So we are comparing Landry to brown? And juju just had more receptions and yards than brown despite them both going over 1000 so, so much for your point. 

[Vagitron]

28 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

That it is played at all, perhaps.   But being named to the Pro Bowl is the equivalent of being named to the "All Star Team" in other sports.   If they would just name an "All Star Team" without playing an All Star game that could be better, maybe And being named an All Star certainly has merit. 

The only real proper All Star Game is the baseball All Star game....because it is the only one that is played the same as real games. The others have players that just do a show.  Play no defense, get slap happy etc. 

They are also popularity contests with fan voting applied. All pro on the other hand is completely different.

[Vagitron]

24 minutes ago, nickers said:

We believe your STUPID!.. PERIOD!!

You're 

Dumb ass.

[gumby73]

A)    B.)     C)     ??? you're killin my after draft buzz   

[Dutch Oven]

This thread has devolved into trying to figure who to root for between ISIS and the Taliban. 

[hoorta]

2 hours ago, Vagitron said:

1) So we are comparing Landry to brown? 2) And juju just had more receptions and yards than brown despite them both going over 1000 so, so much for your point. 

1) No were not. We're putting him in the tier right below Brown\ Jones\ Evans.  That's a little bit more than solid, and certainly not over rated.  He also happens to have the best hands I've seen on a Browns WR since Ozzie Newsome, and from what I gather that was before your time.    

2) As I posted earlier, we'll see just how good Ju-Ju is this season now that he's your #1 WR and is drawing the other team's #1 CB and probably double coverage.  Nah, Antonio couldn't possibly have been doing that last year. That's MY point.  

[nickers]

2 hours ago, Vagitron said:

You're 

Dumb ass.

Shut it Mrs. Beasley

[Vagitron]

27 minutes ago, hoorta said:

1) No were not. We're putting him in the tier right below Brown\ Jones\ Evans.  That's a little bit more than solid, and certainly not over rated.  He also happens to have the best hands I've seen on a Browns WR since Ozzie Newsome, and from what I gather that was before your time.    

2) As I posted earlier, we'll see just how good Ju-Ju is this season now that he's your #1 WR and is drawing the other team's #1 CB and probably double coverage.  Nah, Antonio couldn't possibly have been doing that last year. That's MY point.  

Browns wr's since Ozzie Newsome haven't exactly been murderers row. I wouldn't put him in that second tier either. Obviously it's my opinion. He was overrated coming out of Miami (doesn't mean he isn't good) and I said someone is going to pay him a bunch of money he probably doesn't deserve. It ended up being the Browns. The culture change, steady production ended up being worth it for you all but he isn't a game changer or a game breaker. He's just a dude you can count on to not drop the ball. You can get 20 of those guys each draft.

[nickers]

34 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Browns wr's since Ozzie Newsome haven't exactly been murderers row. I wouldn't put him in that second tier either. Obviously it's my opinion. He was overrated coming out of Miami (doesn't mean he isn't good) and I said someone is going to pay him a bunch of money he probably doesn't deserve. It ended up being the Browns. The culture change, steady production ended up being worth it for you all but he isn't a game changer or a game breaker. He's just a dude you can count on to not drop the ball. You can get 20 of those guys each draft.

I guess you never heard of Webster Slaughter and Reggie Langhorn either.... Google them

[Canton Mike]

Advice to my Brownsboard Friends......Ignore the ignorant.  

Mike

[The Gipper]

4 hours ago, Vagitron said:

So we are comparing Landry to brown? And juju just had more receptions and yards than brown despite them both going over 1000 so, so much for your point. 

Yes....so much for our point....the point being that if you have a top notch #1 receiver on your roster, the coverage he gets opens things up for the #2 receiver.

Landry would not be compared to AB.....that would be the position for OBJ.    Landry could perhaps be compared to Smith...who was the #2.   Of course, in the Browns WR situation last year...it WAS Landry who....as a slot receiver, was the #1 option.  Which he should not have been. Now he will be back in his natural situation as the possession guy. He will not have to play the big play guy.   That is what we will have OBJ and Calloway for.  The fact that we have those guys will open up a ton of opportunities for Landry.....just as having AB  opened up  a lot of opportunities for Smith.

[The Gipper]

5 hours ago, Vagitron said:

They are also popularity contests with fan voting applied. All pro on the other hand is completely different.

All Pro names one single person in the league at each position.  All Star selection names the players in each league to play in an All Star game.  Yes, they are different, somewhat. The Pro Bowl (All Star) selection, theoretically, chooses the best players in each conference to play in the All Star game.

And yes, their is SOME element of fan input to the selection of All Stars.  But most fans are smarter than you and can actually discern who the most deserving players are to be named to these squads.  Not always, sure, but often.  Coaches/GMs/media also have their input.

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

This thread has devolved into trying to figure who to root for between ISIS and the Taliban. 

No, it isn't.  

Demonstrate to us all the areas where you agree with  Steeler hairhole and disagree with me.  If you actually paid attention to the substance of the conversation.....that would not be hard to do.

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Browns wr's since Ozzie Newsome haven't exactly been murderers row. I wouldn't put him in that second tier either. Obviously it's my opinion. He was overrated coming out of Miami (doesn't mean he isn't good) and I said someone is going to pay him a bunch of money he probably doesn't deserve. It ended up being the Browns. The culture change, steady production ended up being worth it for you all but he isn't a game changer or a game breaker. He's just a dude you can count on to not drop the ball. You can get 20 of those guys each draft.

Demonstrate all those 20 guys from each draft ...say the last 5 years that have averaged 90-100 catches and a first down with every catch over a 4-5 year period.

Go ahead, we will wait.   The answer is likely to be 1-2 people...with Landry in there.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Canton Mike said:

Advice to my Brownsboard Friends......Ignore the ignorant.  

Mike

Yea, I know..but it is so tempting to pick that low hanging fruit.....and put it in the blender.

[TexasAg1969]

12 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Yea, I know..but it is so tempting to pick that low hanging fruit.....and put it in the blender.

Or looking at it from the opposite point of view, catch so damn many fish with a single hook.😹🐠🐟🐡

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Or looking at it from the opposite point of view, catch so damn many fish with a single hook.😹🐠🐟🐡

A hook with a stick of dynamite attached.

[TexasAg1969]

1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

A hook with a stick of dynamite attached.

In fly fishing they call it matching the hatch.😁

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, Vagitron said:

 He's just a dude (Landry) you can count on to not drop the ball. You can get 20 of those guys each draft.

And put up 1,000 yards receiving? Um, no you can't. 

[Tour2ma]

If we merged all the pointless Vag-Gip arguments, would the resultant thread be longer than the Manziel Compilation?

On 4/26/2019 at 8:50 PM, Unsympathetic said:

Great pick, well worth moving up 3 picks to snag.  He's PFF's top-rated cover CB.

#1???? Not in my copy of their draft guide. He was T-22 in passer rating allowed (58.1), but had the 2nd most snaps of the top 24 in a big 5 conference. He was #2 in their CB ranking behind only Byron Murphy, BC.

ADVANCED STATS STAT RANK
YARDS/COVER SNAP 0.93 47
COVER SNAPS/TARGET 6.42 75
COVER SNAPS/RECEPTION 15.93 21
TACKLING EFFICIENCY 9.50 60
YARDS/COVER SNAP (SLOT) 1.61 137
SLOT YARDS ALLOWED 29 108

On 4/29/2019 at 3:41 PM, hoorta said:

You can't  coach sub  4.4 speed. I doubt Williams  is going to  have a Justin Gilbert  attitude.

And "he who shall not be mentioned" gets mentioned...

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

If we merged all the pointless Vag-Gip arguments, would the resultant thread be longer than the Manziel Compilation?

#1???? Not in my copy of their draft guide. He was T-22 in passer rating allowed (58.1), but had the 2nd most snaps of the top 24 in a big 5 conference. He was #2 in their CB ranking behind only Byron Murphy, BC.

ADVANCED STATS STAT RANK
YARDS/COVER SNAP 0.93 47
COVER SNAPS/TARGET 6.42 75
COVER SNAPS/RECEPTION 15.93 21
TACKLING EFFICIENCY 9.50 60
YARDS/COVER SNAP (SLOT) 1.61 137
SLOT YARDS ALLOWED 29 108

And "he who shall not be mentioned" gets mentioned...

Will you please interpret that in non stat nerd language so the rest of us can understand it?  

PS- Gipper's not the only one. I'll take on Vag too when he starts spewing homer Steeler garbage.