Jump to content
THE BROWNS BOARD

Stay at #49 or trade down


Orion

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Orion said:

So what does that mean to you?  Cut him?  Trade him for a flip of 7th round picks?  

Maybe package Our 3rd and Duke to get back in to round 2.

 

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

From Hilliard.

I doubt it.  I don't know why so many think Duke a great player.  If he was, he would have been playing more.  Hilliard had 9 receptions last year on probably as many targets...I couldn't find that info.  He will step in nicely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh....people say why trade him when all we will get is a flip of 7th round picks.  I think that says it right...he is a dime a dozen player.  There are all kinds of journeymen backs out there who go from team to team and catch 40 balls.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

Maybe package Our 3rd and Duke to get back in to round 2.

 

I doubt it.  I don't know why so many think Duke a great player.  If he was, he would have been playing more.  Hilliard had 9 receptions last year on probably as many targets...I couldn't find that info.  He will step in nicely.

Duke was the best weapon this team had for a couple of years.  Before Mayfield, before Chubb, before Calloway, before Landry.  Perhaps that is why. Most of us do NOT believe his capability was diminished...only his utilization:

Rushing & Receiving

 
    •   Games Rushing Receiving Total Yds      
      Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Rush Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Y/Tgt Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb AV
      Career       64 10 299 1286 5 39 4.3 20.1 4.7 303 235 2170 9.2 8 52 3.7 33.9 77.6%   534 6.4719 3456 13 8 20
      2015 22 CLE rb 29 16 7 104 379 0 39 3.6 23.7 6.5 74 61 534 8.8 2 52 3.8 33.4 82.4% 7.2 165 5.5333 913 2 1 5
      2016 23 CLE rb 29 16 1 73 358 1 22 4.9 22.4 4.6 74 53 514 9.7 0 32 3.3 32.1 71.6% 6.9 126 6.9206 872 1 2 5
      2017 24 CLE   29 16 0 82 348 4 19 4.2 21.8 5.1 93 74 693 9.4 3 41 4.6 43.3 79.6% 7.5 156 6.6731 1041 7 4 6
      2018 25 CLE rb 29 16 2 40 201 0 23 5.0 12.6 2.5 62 47 429 9.1 3 32 2.9 26.8 75.8% 6.9 87 7.2414 630 3 1 4

To be reduced from 165 touches to 87 would reduce any player's output.  Yet note that his yards per touch increase quite a bit last year...even though he had fewer touches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, ballpeen said:

..he is a dime a dozen player.  There are all kinds of journeymen backs out there who go from team to team and catch 40 balls.

.....I believe in another thread I called it, "Rent - a - Running Back".  

Duke is a smart football player who can catch, run & block.  

I think Dorsey made a mistake when he answered the Karem Hunt question by answering, "No, singing Karem Hunt doesn't make Duke expendable yet."    - I wish he wouldn't have said the word 'yet'.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Orion said:

  -  There will be NO TRADING UP INTO ROUND ONE  -

I just OK'ed the switch of band rehearsal from Wednesday night to Thursday night!

I've been rehearsing getting rid of those 6th & 7th round picks all week..My wife's birthday tickets to me, says Jimmy Buffett hits the Nashville stage at 8 pm Saturday night..Let's wrap this thing up by 6Pm Dorsey.. Come Monday..i might be alright;) 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ballpeen, you are contradicting yourself here.

If you think his value is swap of 7th round picks, or even by himself worth a 5th, 6th, 7th, then packaging him with a 3rd is not even close to moving to 2nd.

Now the thing I don't understand completely is people bringing up being the best player a couple years ago to assess value. I think he is more valuable on the team as I have said, and I can't get on board with packaging him to move up in 1st 3 rounds, as I don't see that value as I have said, but being the top playmaker on a bad team doesn't mean he had great value. What that says is that the team had bad talent. That doesn't mean he couldn't be a great talent, but using his as the "best" adds no value. The best player on a bad team doesn't mean that player would be good on another 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/20/2019 at 7:13 PM, jcam222 said:

Stay at 49 or move up if the right player / value exists. This team is not in need of collecting lower round draft capitol with a trade down. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/20/cleveland-browns-2019-nfl-draft-prospect-grades/amp/

 

Exactly.  The FO already hinted they had determined any players left around pick 17 had second round value.  Why would you trade back into the first if you think that?  Hard to imagine a top 15 pick to fall far enough to jump that high.  Moving up in the second seems far more likely, but what do I know?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

Ballpeen, you are contradicting yourself here.

If you think his value is swap of 7th round picks, or even by himself worth a 5th, 6th, 7th, then packaging him with a 3rd is not even close to moving to 2nd.

Now the thing I don't understand completely is people bringing up being the best player a couple years ago to assess value. I think he is more valuable on the team as I have said, and I can't get on board with packaging him to move up in 1st 3 rounds, as I don't see that value as I have said, but being the top playmaker on a bad team doesn't mean he had great value. What that says is that the team had bad talent. That doesn't mean he couldn't be a great talent, but using his as the "best" adds no value. The best player on a bad team doesn't mean that player would be good on another 

I bolded the statements that, to me, say it all. I don't think Duke is/was as good as some think. I think he's an average back & the alleged picks suggested in trade pretty much verify that.

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, htownbrown said:

The FO already hinted they had determined any players left around pick 17 had second round value.

This is true.  But IS IT true?  Or was it pre-draft bullshit tossed out there by JD?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

LOL Ag, you may be an A&M homer, but I'm definitely a (note the bold) Benedictine homer. Yeah, my HS Alma Mater, and unless things have seriously changed around there, Layne is a high quality individual.   

Enter Benedictine product Justin Layne, who is coming off a productive junior season at Michigan State in which he tallied 72 tackles, 2.5 of which came for a loss, 15 passes defended and 1 interception. At 6-foot-2 and 192 pounds, the second-team All-Big Ten selection is a bit rangier than Ward and could provide the Browns with more flexibility when it comes to defending opposing receivers.

BTW, third round pick from last year Jerome Baker went to the same HS by way of Ohio State. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Orion said:

  -  There will be NO TRADING UP INTO ROUND ONE  -

I just OK'ed the switch of band rehearsal from Wednesday night to Thursday night!

 

3 hours ago, gumby73 said:

I've been rehearsing getting rid of those 6th & 7th round picks all week..My wife's birthday tickets to me, says Jimmy Buffett hits the Nashville stage at 8 pm Saturday night..Let's wrap this thing up by 6Pm Dorsey.. Come Monday..i might be alright;) 

Haven't you guys heard of the wonders  of DVR?  I'll probably start watching the first round sometime around 9:30, just to rip through all the commercials and other BS.  

Gums, unless you're a total draft nerd, guys we take in the 6\7th round are going to be players you never heard of. Unless you really want to see who's going to take Mr. Irrelevant around 6PM Saturday, I'd say Buffett will be far more entertaining. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

Ballpeen, you are contradicting yourself here.

If you think his value is swap of 7th round picks, or even by himself worth a 5th, 6th, 7th, then packaging him with a 3rd is not even close to moving to 2nd.

Now the thing I don't understand completely is people bringing up being the best player a couple years ago to assess value. I think he is more valuable on the team as I have said, and I can't get on board with packaging him to move up in 1st 3 rounds, as I don't see that value as I have said, but being the top playmaker on a bad team doesn't mean he had great value. What that says is that the team had bad talent. That doesn't mean he couldn't be a great talent, but using his as the "best" adds no value. The best player on a bad team doesn't mean that player would be good on another 

I was just talking about Duke as a sweetener.  If such a move required something else, so be it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

Ballpeen, you are contradicting yourself here.

If you think his value is swap of 7th round picks, or even by himself worth a 5th, 6th, 7th, then packaging him with a 3rd is not even close to moving to 2nd.

Now the thing I don't understand completely is people bringing up being the best player a couple years ago to assess value. I think he is more valuable on the team as I have said, and I can't get on board with packaging him to move up in 1st 3 rounds, as I don't see that value as I have said, but being the top playmaker on a bad team doesn't mean he had great value. What that says is that the team had bad talent. That doesn't mean he couldn't be a great talent, but using his as the "best" adds no value. The best player on a bad team doesn't mean that player would be good on another 

I was already about to say the addition of Chubb & Baker made him less needed as a 3rd down back. Having said that I would give serious consideration to converting him to the slot. He's got what it takes to be a good one if he accepts the role.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, hoorta said:

Haven't you guys heard of the wonders  of DVR? 

I do not own a DVR.   I have a DVD player/recorder but trying to figure out how to record something is a nightmare.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, hoorta said:

 

LOL Ag, you may be an A&M homer, but I'm definitely a (note the bold) Benedictine homer. Yeah, my HS Alma Mater, and unless things have seriously changed around there, Layne is a high quality individual.   

Enter Benedictine product Justin Layne, who is coming off a productive junior season at Michigan State in which he tallied 72 tackles, 2.5 of which came for a loss, 15 passes defended and 1 interception. At 6-foot-2 and 192 pounds, the second-team All-Big Ten selection is a bit rangier than Ward and could provide the Browns with more flexibility when it comes to defending opposing receivers.

BTW, third round pick from last year Jerome Baker went to the same HS by way of Ohio State. 

Yea...well....you went to the same high school as Chuck Noll......nuff said there.  (and I was born in the same town as Bo Schembechler....so nuff said there also)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I was just talking about Duke as a sweetener.  If such a move required something else, so be it.

I understood your point. But it makes no sense when combined with your other statement. How is a "dime a dozen, worth a 7th rounder" become a 3rd round pick sweetener to move to 2nd? 

You don't have to assign someone a value to see how that makes no sense. Nobody would be good with trading a 2nd round pick for a 3rd and 7th. Let's just use an example here for context. Are you cool with the Browns trading pick 49 for pick 65 and 248 (Arizona 3rd and 7th)? Or let's use this, you good with pick 49 for pick 65 and 174 (the top picks in 3rd and 6th).

People can have their own opinions on someone's value, and those can differ. If someone had the opinion that Duke had a 3rd round value, then they could make a case for a move up like that. But when you offer up an opinion that someone has very little value, you can't turn around and say he has good value to fit a narrative

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's wasn't how I read it.  All peen was saying, imo, that Duke can be extra fodder for a trade up, and as he later re-qualified, 'if it takes more, so be it'. That he did not offer a full eval of which additional picks he would offer doesn't mean only Duke was the additional compensation. Read the actual words, not what you think he typed.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Yea...well....you went to the same high school as Chuck Noll......nuff said there.  (and I was born in the same town as Bo Schembechler....so nuff said there also)

LOL, but did you go to the same high school as Bo is the question? Just being born in a town, in my case Cleveland- covers a lot of celebrities, sports and otherwise.  :)  Chuck may be our most famous alum, but those who follow golf have heard of Tom Weiskopf. #2 famous alum. Tom drove the green and aced a par 4 when he was on the golf team.   

The currently unemployed Najee Goode (formerly of the Eagles) is another of our guys that made it to the NFL.  

PS, not only did I go to the same HS as Noll, I followed him down the road here to the University of Dayton. BTW, Jon Gruden is also a UD grad. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

I understood your point. But it makes no sense when combined with your other statement. How is a "dime a dozen, worth a 7th rounder" become a 3rd round pick sweetener to move to 2nd? 

You don't have to assign someone a value to see how that makes no sense. Nobody would be good with trading a 2nd round pick for a 3rd and 7th. Let's just use an example here for context. Are you cool with the Browns trading pick 49 for pick 65 and 248 (Arizona 3rd and 7th)? Or let's use this, you good with pick 49 for pick 65 and 174 (the top picks in 3rd and 6th).

People can have their own opinions on someone's value, and those can differ. If someone had the opinion that Duke had a 3rd round value, then they could make a case for a move up like that. But when you offer up an opinion that someone has very little value, you can't turn around and say he has good value to fit a narrative

No, you don't understand my point.  I said Duke could be the sweetener.  I don't sit around with a draft value chart when I type.  I never though that Duke and  a 3rd rounder would get us in to the 2nd round.  I said Duke could sweeten the deal...I assumed most would understand it would probably take another pick, especially since I said he is a dime a dozen player..

 

I also wasn't the one who said he was worth a 7th round flip.  I think he has more value than that, especially as the guy to tip the scale in our favor towards a trade.  Read the words man.

 

Look, I like Duke and wanted to keep him until he started asking for a trade.....and really, I still like him.  To me he like a Theo Reddick....a decent player, but not somebody you can't easily replace.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, ballpeen said:

No, you don't understand my point.  I said Duke could be the sweetener.  I don't sit around with a draft value chart when I type.  I never though that Duke and  a 3rd rounder would get us in to the 2nd round.  I said Duke could sweeten the deal...I assumed most would understand it would probably take another pick, especially since I said he is a dime a dozen player..

 

I also wasn't the one who said he was worth a 7th round flip.  I think he has more value than that, especially as the guy to tip the scale in our favor towards a trade.  Read the words man.

 

Look, I like Duke and wanted to keep him until he started asking for a trade.....and really, I still like him.  To me he like a Theo Reddick....a decent player, but not somebody you can't easily replace.

 

Well that isn't how it reads. You said "maybe package our 3rd and Duke to get back into Round 2"

And you may not have been the one to say swap 7th, but you said that says it right.

I don't know what your point is about the value chart, but if you were referring to me using those Cardinals picks, you don't need a chart in front of you. I didn't have one. Its simple, would YOU be happy if the Browns traded the 47th pick for a 3rd and 6th or 7th? Duke has no value on a chart, as that value is what someone is willing to give up 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Buzz off kid, and at my age most everybody is a kid so don't take that as a big insult.  I was a teenager in 1964 , just driving a car when we last won a championship.  If you are a contemporary , I'll call you Gramps rather than kid.   I can't help it you don't get it.    In your example, I might, it just  depends on if the sweetener was something I needed.  I think Dukes value is in a package deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

LOL, but did you go to the same high school as Bo is the question? Just being born in a town, in my case Cleveland- covers a lot of celebrities, sports and otherwise.  :)  Chuck may be our most famous alum, but those who follow golf have heard of Tom Weiskopf. #2 famous alum. Tom drove the green and aced a par 4 when he was on the golf team.   

The currently unemployed Najee Goode (formerly of the Eagles) is another of our guys that made it to the NFL.  

PS, not only did I go to the same HS as Noll, I followed him down the road here to the University of Dayton. BTW, Jon Gruden is also a UD grad. 

No,  he went to Barberton,  I went to Norton, right next door.  My HS doesn't really have any famous alum....unless you consider a Playboy Playmate as famous:

Sandra Hubby:

premium_poster.jpg

Beat that with that All Boys school you went to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I also wasn't the one who said he was worth a 7th round flip.  I think he has more value than that,

That was me...kinda'.  I was asking what Duke's value was.  And I guess I'm still asking.  What is Duke's trade value?    I don't know of a Trade Value Chart for players.

...answering my own ?  -   Duke's value is intangible as it would be different for different teams.   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ballpeen said:

 Buzz off kid, and at my age most everybody is a kid so don't take that as a big insult.  I was a teenager in 1964 , just driving a car when we last won a championship.  If you are a contemporary , I'll call you Gramps rather than kid.   I can't help it you don't get it.    In your example, I might, it just  depends on if the sweetener was something I needed.  I think Dukes value is in a package deal.

What your value for him is really isn't important, neither is mine. The point is, whether it was your intention or not (which it seems like it wasn't), your post read as the Browns 3rd round pick and Duke to move up to 2nd round. You don't seem to see that, but you know what you were trying to convey.

From someone else's POV, it looks like you meant Duke and 3rd to move up. There is no mention or insinuation of anything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RD1   RD2   RD3   RD4        RD5   RD6   RD7  
PK/TM VAL PK/TM VAL PK/TM VAL PK/TM VAL PK/TM VAL PK/TM VAL PK/TM VAL
  1  ARI 3000   33  ARI 580   65  ARI 265   103  ARI 88   139  ARI 36   174  ARI 21.4   215  TB 5
  2  SF 2600   34  IND 560   66  PIT 260   104  SF 86   140  OAK 35.5   175  PIT 21   216  KC 4.6
  3  NYJ 2200   35  OAK 550   67  SF 255   105  NYJ 84   141  PIT 35   176  SF 20.6   217  NYJ 4.2
  4  OAK 1800   36  SF 540   68  NYJ 250   106  OAK 82   142  NYG 34.5   177  NO 20.2   218  OAK 3.8
  5  TB 1700   37  NYG 530   69  JAX 245   107  TB 80   143  NYG 34   178  JAX 19.8   219  PIT 3.4
  6  NYG 1600   38  JAX 520   70  TB 240   108  NYG 78   144  CLE 33.5   179  ARI 19.4   220  HOU 3
  7  JAX 1500   39  TB 510   71  DEN 235   109  JAX 76   145  TB 33   180  NYG 19   221  CLE 2.6
  8  DET 1400   40  BUF 500   72  CIN 230   110  CIN 74   146  DET 32.6   181  BUF 18.6   222  CHI 2.3
  9  BUF 1350   41  DEN 490   73  NE 225   111  DET 72   147  BUF 32.2   182  DEN 18.2   223  CIN 2
  10  DEN 1300   42  CIN 480   74  BUF 220   112  BUF 70   148  DEN 31.8   183  CIN 17.8   224  DET 1.7
  11  CIN 1250   43  DET 470   75  GB 215   113  BAL 68   149  CIN 31.4   184  DET 17.4   225  BUF 1.4
  12  GB 1200   44  GB 460   76  WAS 210   114  GB 66   150  GB 31   185  GB 17   226  GB 1.1
  13  MIA 1150   45  ATL 450   77  CAR 205   115  CAR 64   151  MIA 30.6   186  ATL 16.6   227  WAS 1
  14  ATL 1100   46  WAS 440   78  MIA 200   116  MIA 62   152  ATL 30.2   187  CAR 16.2   228  BUF 1
  15  WAS 1050   47  CAR 430   79  ATL 195   117  ATL 60   153  WAS 29.8   188  TEN 15.8   229  DET 1
  16  CAR 1000   48  MIA 420   80  CLE 190   118  GB 58   154  CAR 29.4   189  CLE 15.4   230  ATL 1
  17  NYG 950   49  CLE 410   81  MIN 185   119  CLE 56   155  CLE 29   190  MIN 15   231  NO 1
  18  MIN 900   50  MIN 400   82  TEN 180   120  MIN 54   156  DEN 28.6   191  BAL 14.6   232  NYG 1
  19  TEN 875   51  TEN 390   83  PIT 175   121  TEN 52   157  TEN 28.2   192  PIT 14.2   233  MIA 1
  20  PIT 850   52  PIT 380   84  KC 170   122  PIT 50   158  BUF 27.8   193  BAL 13.8   234  MIA 1
  21  SEA 800   53  PHI 370   85  BAL 165   123  BAL 49   159  SEA 27.4   194  GB 13.4   235  OAK 1
  22  BAL 780   54  HOU 360   86  HOU 160   124  SEA 48   160  BAL 27   195  HOU 13   236  JAX 1
  23  HOU 760   55  HOU 350   87  CHI 155   125  DEN 47   161  HOU 26.6   196  NYJ 12.6   237  DEN 1
  24  OAK 740   56  NE 340   88  DET 150   126  CHI 46   162  CHI 26.2   197  PHI 12.2   238  CHI 1
  25  PHI 720   57  PHI 330   89  IND 145   127  PHI 45   163  PHI 25.8   198  CIN 11.8   239  NE 1
  26  IND 700   58  DAL 320   90  DAL 140   128  DAL 44   164  IND 25.4   199  IND 11.4   240  IND 1
  27  OAK 680   59  IND 310   91  LAC 136   129  IND 43   165  DAL 25   200  LAC 11   241  DAL 1
  28  LAC 660   60  LAC 300   92  SEA 132   130  LAC 42   166  LAC 24.6   201  KC 10.6   242  LAC 1
  29  SEA 640   61  KC 292   93  NYJ 128   131  BUF 41   167  KC 24.2   202  NO 10.2   243  NE 1
  30  GB 620   62  NO 284   94  LAR 124   132  NYG 40   168  NO 23.8   203  LAR 9.8   244  NO 1
  31  LAR 600   63  KC 276   95  NYG 120   133  LAR 39   169  LAR 23.4   204  DET 9.4   245  NYG 1
  32  NE 590   64  NE 270   96  WAS 116   134  NE 38.5   170  CLE 23   205  NE 9   246  NE 1
                97  NE 112   135  IND 38   171  NYG 22.6   206  WAS 8.6   247  MIN 1
                98  JAX 108   136  DAL 37.5   172  ATL 22.2   207  PIT 8.2   248  ARI 1
                99  LAR 104   137  ATL 37   173  WAS 21.8   208  TB 7.8   249  ARI 1
                100  CAR 100   138  PHI 36.5          209  MIN 7.4   250  MIN 1
                101  NE 96                 210  CIN 7   251  LAR 1
                102  BAL 92                 211  CIN 6.6   252  NE 1
                                     212  SF 6.2   253  WAS 1
                                     213  CIN 5.8   254  ARI 1
                                     214  KC 5.4       
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...