MLD Woody Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Chemist said: I don’t know how anyone could expect a computer program to make ethical decisions. To do so requires a conscience. You don't need an ethical robot to replace a very large portion of jobs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chemist Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 hour ago, MLD Woody said: You don't need an ethical robot to replace a very large portion of jobs. True. But nor can a robot become a whistleblower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Chemist said: True. But nor can a robot become a whistleblower. First of all so what? Second of all sure it can. Take the IRS for example. Do you think every return is poured over and calculated by an accountant with a pad and pencil? Of course not. Computers are just machines with enough artificial intelligence to crush the numbers and spit one out if there's something wrong with it. WSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chemist Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Westside Steve said: First of all so what? Second of all sure it can. Take the IRS for example. Do you think every return is poured over and calculated by an accountant with a pad and pencil? Of course not. Computers are just machines with enough artificial intelligence to crush the numbers and spit one out if there's something wrong with it. WSS A robot that is programmed to dump illegal pollutants into a river cannot contact the proper authorities regarding the illegal dumping. An ethical sentient being can. A robot programmed to use a cheaper, inferior mix of concrete that will not meet specifications or codes cannot contact the proper authorities. The point is that the economy exists out of the scarcity of resources. Scarcity of resources results in greed (which is also part of the human condition). Greed will always exist. Whether it be someone wishing to consolidate or save resources, money, or power, robots will not provide a check on such people. Additionally, if there are no jobs, who would even benefit from giving the public a universal basic income? How would the economy even exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 something will have to be done to prevent any democrat from ever programming robots - gigo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 9 hours ago, Chemist said: A robot that is programmed to dump illegal pollutants into a river cannot contact the proper authorities regarding the illegal dumping. An ethical sentient being can. A robot programmed to use a cheaper, inferior mix of concrete that will not meet specifications or codes cannot contact the proper authorities. The point is that the economy exists out of the scarcity of resources. Scarcity of resources results in greed (which is also part of the human condition). Greed will always exist. Whether it be someone wishing to consolidate or save resources, money, or power, robots will not provide a check on such people. Additionally, if there are no jobs, who would even benefit from giving the public a universal basic income? How would the economy even exist? Again it all depends on the programming. If you program the machine not to do anything the programmer doesn't like it will respond. If you teach a child antisocial behavior He will carry it through his adulthood. Ethics and morals have to be taught and or programmed. Morals and ethics have been created to bypass Human Nature in many instances. WSS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 10 hours ago, Chemist said: Additionally, if there are no jobs, who would even benefit from giving the public a universal basic income? How would the economy even exist? That would be a major question in regards to how things work now. Would there even be currency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Westside Steve said: Again it all depends on the programming. If you program the machine not to do anything the programmer doesn't like it will respond. If you teach a child antisocial behavior He will carry it through his adulthood. Ethics and morals have to be taught and or programmed. Morals and ethics have been created to bypass Human Nature in many instances. nope. I saw the movie "2001 - A Space Odyssey". NOPE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film) Eighteen months later, the United States spacecraft Discovery One is bound for Jupiter. On board are mission pilots and scientists Dr. David Bowman and Dr. Frank Poole, along with three other scientists in suspended animation. Most of Discovery's operations are controlled by the ship's computer, a HAL 9000 with a human personality that the crew calls "Hal". Hal says he is "foolproof and incapable of error". Hal raises concerns about the nature of the mission to Bowman, but their conversation is interrupted when Hal reports the imminent failure of an antenna control device. The astronauts retrieve it in an extravehicular activity (EVA) pod but find nothing wrong. Hal suggests reinstalling the device and letting it fail so the problem can be found. Mission Control advises the astronauts that results from their twin HAL 9000 indicate that Hal is in error about the device's imminent failure. Hal says the discrepancy must be due to human error. Concerned about Hal's behavior, Bowman and Poole enter an EVA pod to talk without Hal overhearing, and agree to disconnect Hal if he is proven wrong. Hal secretly follows their conversation by lip reading. While Poole is on a space walk outside his EVA pod attempting to replace the unit, Hal takes control of the pod, severs his oxygen hose and sets him adrift. Bowman takes another pod to rescue Poole. Meanwhile, Hal turns off the life support functions of the crewmen in suspended animation. When Bowman returns to the ship with Poole's body, Hal refuses to let him in, stating that the astronauts' plan to deactivate him jeopardizes the mission. Bowman opens the ship's emergency airlock manually, enters the ship, and proceeds to Hal's processor core. Hal tries to reassure Bowman, then pleads with him to stop, and finally expresses fear. As Bowman gradually deactivates the circuits controlling Hal's higher intellectual functions, Hal regresses to his earliest programmed memory, the song "Daisy Bell", which he sings for Bowman. When Bowman disconnects Hal, a prerecorded video message from Floyd plays, revealing that the mission's true objective is to investigate a radio signal, sent from a lunar artifact (the monolith) to Jupiter. Only Hal and the hibernating crew had been told this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 But, seriously, may I also add, being a retired corporate programmer/business/analyst software developer - that God help us when they start programming an AI computer to fix it's own programming. Trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: nope. I saw the movie "2001 - A Space Odyssey". NOPE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(film) Eighteen months later, the United States spacecraft Discovery One is bound for Jupiter. On board are mission pilots and scientists Dr. David Bowman and Dr. Frank Poole, along with three other scientists in suspended animation. Most of Discovery's operations are controlled by the ship's computer, a HAL 9000 with a human personality that the crew calls "Hal". Hal says he is "foolproof and incapable of error". Hal raises concerns about the nature of the mission to Bowman, but their conversation is interrupted when Hal reports the imminent failure of an antenna control device. The astronauts retrieve it in an extravehicular activity (EVA) pod but find nothing wrong. Hal suggests reinstalling the device and letting it fail so the problem can be found. Mission Control advises the astronauts that results from their twin HAL 9000 indicate that Hal is in error about the device's imminent failure. Hal says the discrepancy must be due to human error. Concerned about Hal's behavior, Bowman and Poole enter an EVA pod to talk without Hal overhearing, and agree to disconnect Hal if he is proven wrong. Hal secretly follows their conversation by lip reading. While Poole is on a space walk outside his EVA pod attempting to replace the unit, Hal takes control of the pod, severs his oxygen hose and sets him adrift. Bowman takes another pod to rescue Poole. Meanwhile, Hal turns off the life support functions of the crewmen in suspended animation. When Bowman returns to the ship with Poole's body, Hal refuses to let him in, stating that the astronauts' plan to deactivate him jeopardizes the mission. Bowman opens the ship's emergency airlock manually, enters the ship, and proceeds to Hal's processor core. Hal tries to reassure Bowman, then pleads with him to stop, and finally expresses fear. As Bowman gradually deactivates the circuits controlling Hal's higher intellectual functions, Hal regresses to his earliest programmed memory, the song "Daisy Bell", which he sings for Bowman. When Bowman disconnects Hal, a prerecorded video message from Floyd plays, revealing that the mission's true objective is to investigate a radio signal, sent from a lunar artifact (the monolith) to Jupiter. Only Hal and the hibernating crew had been told this. Interesting. This movie was way ahead of it's time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 On 4/17/2019 at 9:34 AM, LogicIsForSquares said: AI and automated systems will be able to do just about every form of vocation we do now but with far more productivity and less downtime. If you are a person running a business, you would be dumb not to invest in it. We will eventually reach that point. Before the Revolutionary War almost everybody in the country was in agriculture oh, just trying to scratch enough food out of the ground to survive. Today maybe 2% of the population Works in agriculture and one of our biggest problems is too much food to eat. WSS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Westside Steve said: Before the Revolutionary War almost everybody in the country was in agriculture oh, just trying to scratch enough food out of the ground to survive. Today maybe 2% of the population Works in agriculture and one of our biggest problems is too much food to eat. WSS and another problem, even bigger, is the mass production of food causes food to be not just good tasting, but poor nutritionally. Example, when they harvest stuff, like tomatoes, they keep them in storage in a gas that keeps them from ripening, until they are shipped out. Then, with all the pesticides, herbicides, fungicides crap they spray on em - traces of poisons ends up being in the skin or deeper, of the fruit or vegetable. Produce is selected not based on taste and vitamin content, but on toughness (resilience to bruising), and appearance, and productivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 Finding an exception here or there (potential exception) doesn't do anything for the vast majority of jobs. It doesn't hurt the need to study UBI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted April 19, 2019 Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 They already have AI that can learn. Why couldn't it be programmed to be ethical? And in reverse, why couldn't it be programmed to be evil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Vambo Posted April 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 5 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said: They already have AI that can learn. Why couldn't it be programmed to be ethical? And in reverse, why couldn't it be programmed to be evil? Better hope we get a programmer on the right meds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 Ho-less... WSS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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