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Tour2ma

I have my 2019 "Darkhorse" QB...

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Been sweating this as I have a tradition, if not a streak, to build on...

A bit of history...

  • 2012 - Nick Foles - my original BB darkhorse speaks for himself.
  • 2013 - none
  • 2014 - AJ McCarron - showed promise in the Cinci season he finished for the injured Red-head, then...
  • 2015 - Bryce Petty - forced this one... it was a really bad QB class and Bryce was the best option I saw.
  • 2016 - Dak Prescott - my highest conviction choice... the one I promoted long and loud because I saw him coming from his sophomore year on.
  • 2017a - Chad Kelly - TBD... injury and demons are in the way. Currently an FA and was spotted working out at a Buffalo area HS a couple days ago... I'd sign him over the Brockmeister.
  • 2017b - CJ Beathard - uncertainties around Chad pushed me to name a 2nd. CJ showed some of his promise subbing for Jimmy G in SF...
  • 2018 - Kurt Benkert - my poor man's Josh Rosen, as I dubbed him at the time, signed as a UDFA with ATL and hasn't seen the field yet in the regular season. You can't get darker than an UDFA.

Which brings us to 2019...

Will Grier... WVU...

Will's a likely Round 2 pick... certainly should go Day 2... making him potentially my highest drafted darkhorse to date. IMO he's a steal on Day 2 and is more promising than every round one prospect save Murray yet he's not in the Day 1 conversation. Why not? Probably arm strength, but I see potential even there.

Mechanically Will is very good with one slight exception. The ball path in his throwing motion is good with no dropping of the ball down in his body. He consistently takes the ball straight back from mid-chest. He does take it back a tad further than is ideal, but it is far from the reach-back extremes we all suffered thru with Kizer in 2017 so this is not the exception. The slight exception is where he steps with his front foot.

Even when he is not under pressure rather than striding to the target at 11o'clock or better, Will consistently strides to between 10:30 and 10:00. This is fixable with repetition... at least when not under pressure... and will add veleocity to his throws.

Velocity? More is better, but even with his minor flaw Will's arm is far from "weak". At worst it's average and I think it's better than average as is... but a little more zip would not hurt. And it is there for the training.

Everything else about this kid works... head... heart...

He can read a D. Runs very similar Offense to what Baker did at OU. He's a quick read and shows the eye discipline needed to hold Safeties deep when his primary is a quick slant. Also throws well on the move including rolls to his left where he squares nicely to the LOS to deliver the ball.

Escapability is good, but he's not a runner and he bails only to buy time. If target is available, then he will stand and delver in the face of pressure.

At 6'2 with 9-1/2" hands Will physically he lacks some of the "optimal dimensions" of the prototypical NFL QB, but who really knows what those are anymore? For example: Baker Mayfield.

I really like this kid... and rumor has it so does Bill and the Pats. Better them than the Bengals whose GM, stillmotion, took him in our mock.

Take a look if you have not done so... lots of cutdowns available.

 

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5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Been sweating this as I have a tradition, if not a streak, to build on...

A bit of history...

  • 2012 - Nick Foles - my original BB darkhorse speaks for himself.
  • 2013 - none
  • 2014 - AJ McCarron - showed promise in the Cinci season he finished for the injured Red-head, then...
  • 2015 - Bryce Petty - forced this one... it was a really bad QB class and Bryce was the best option I saw.
  • 2016 - Dak Prescott - my highest conviction choice... the one I promoted long and loud because I saw him coming from his sophomore year on.
  • 2017a - Chad Kelly - TBD... injury and demons are in the way. Currently an FA and was spotted working out at a Buffalo area HS a couple days ago... I'd sign him over the Brockmeister.
  • 2017b - CJ Beathard - uncertainties around Chad pushed me to name a 2nd. CJ showed some of his promise subbing for Jimmy G in SF...
  • 2018 - Kurt Benkert - my poor man's Josh Rosen, as I dubbed him at the time, signed as a UDFA with ATL and hasn't seen the field yet in the regular season. You can't get darker than an UDFA.

Which brings us to 2019...

Will Grier... WVU...

Will's a likely Round 2 pick... certainly should go Day 2... making him potentially my highest drafted darkhorse to date. IMO he's a steal on Day 2 and is more promising than every round one prospect save Murray yet he's not in the Day 1 conversation. Why not? Probably arm strength, but I see potential even there.

Mechanically Will is very good with one slight exception. The ball path in his throwing motion is good with no dropping of the ball down in his body. He consistently takes the ball straight back from mid-chest. He does take it back a tad further than is ideal, but it is far from the reach-back extremes we all suffered thru with Kizer in 2017 so this is not the exception. The slight exception is where he steps with his front foot.

Even when he is not under pressure rather than striding to the target at 11o'clock or better, Will consistently strides to between 10:30 and 10:00. This is fixable with repetition... at least when not under pressure... and will add veleocity to his throws.

Velocity? More is better, but even with his minor flaw Will's arm is far from "weak". At worst it's average and I think it's better than average as is... but a little more zip would not hurt. And it is there for the training.

Everything else about this kid works... head... heart...

He can read a D. Runs very similar Offense to what Baker did at OU. He's a quick read and shows the eye discipline needed to hold Safeties deep when his primary is a quick slant. Also throws well on the move including rolls to his left where he squares nicely to the LOS to deliver the ball.

Escapability is good, but he's not a runner and he bails only to buy time. If target is available, then he will stand and delver in the face of pressure.

At 6'2 with 9-1/2" hands Will physically he lacks some of the "optimal dimensions" of the prototypical NFL QB, but who really knows what those are anymore? For example: Baker Mayfield.

I really like this kid... and rumor has it so does Bill and the Pats. Better them than the Bengals whose GM, stillmotion, took him in our mock.

Take a look if you have not done so... lots of cutdowns available.

 

He's your lightest dark horse yet. Could go in first round.

Z

--Bryce Petty?

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3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

At times I feel like I'm watching a Chad Pennington clone. 

Good comp... hadn't thought of him. I freakin' loved watching Chad play... even after the first injury or two he was formidable.Then... not so much...

I was getting some Sipe...

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Grier was to be still playing at JFK for the Skins, till Still's Bengals got Will 4 picks ahead of me in our mock draft..  a lesser gunned Elway'ish at Stanford imo..The 2 dweebs at PFF knock Grier for a few things..1) his step up straight in the pocket rate, to throw? Will Runs more than 95% of the time. 2) from the PFF rugby dweeb, "Grier won't get away with the playing of 2nd baseman throws in NFL". 3) Falling away back leg throws..  I'd say it's full nfl axe-pert nit-pick'in season..

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13 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

At 6'2 with 9-1/2" hands Will physically he lacks some of the "optimal dimensions" of the prototypical NFL QB, but who really knows what those are anymore? For example: Baker Mayfield.

Just realized I did not complete the above thought. What I meant to add was...

But also like Mayfield Will is a put together 6'2 specimen. That is at 211# he looks "thick", like he can take hits without making the home crowd hold their breath.

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I love Grier but a darkhorse he is not.  Some people have him as their top QB.  Hes QB1 to me.  Id bet money someone trades up and takes him at the end of round 1.  I say pick another!  Rated 3rd round or later.

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2 minutes ago, Flyin J said:

I love Grier but a darkhorse he is not.

I understand the argument, but he's not been in the conversation for Round 1 let alone "best of class"... so he's darkhorse-ish...

 

I was flirting with Brett Rypien for a while... nice QB, but just could not warm to his game. Then I started looking at Grier's tape and lost all interest.

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4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Just realized I did not complete the above thought. What I meant to add was...

But also like Mayfield Will is a put together 6'2 specimen. That is at 211# he looks "thick", like he can take hits without making the home crowd hold their breath.

You wonder how much the "newer" protect the QBs and also WR targets at all cost rules are slightly skewing the game in many ways including maybe less emphasis on the 6' 5" prototypical tough old drop back "Aikman-like" quarterbacks and allowing the smaller mobile quick release guys to be more effective?

Will there be more spots for the Drew Brees, Russell Wilson types? Plus there are more 6' 2" guys out there than 6' 5"+ guys.......just a thought.  :huh:

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Keeping with the theme let's just hope every team we play comes out thinking............................................... 😮🤠

 

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23 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Will Grier... WVU...

Will's a likely Round 2 pick... certainly should go Day 2... making him potentially my highest drafted darkhorse to date. IMO he's a steal on Day 2 and is more promising than every round one prospect save Murray yet he's not in the Day 1 conversation. Why not? Probably arm strength, but I see potential even there.

Mechanically Will is very good with one slight exception. The ball path in his throwing motion is good with no dropping of the ball down in his body. He consistently takes the ball straight back from mid-chest. He does take it back a tad further than is ideal, but it is far from the reach-back extremes we all suffered thru with Kizer in 2017 so this is not the exception. The slight exception is where he steps with his front foot.

Even when he is not under pressure rather than striding to the target at 11o'clock or better, Will consistently strides to between 10:30 and 10:00. This is fixable with repetition... at least when not under pressure... and will add veleocity to his throws.

Velocity? More is better, but even with his minor flaw Will's arm is far from "weak". At worst it's average and I think it's better than average as is... but a little more zip would not hurt. And it is there for the training.

Everything else about this kid works... head... heart...

He can read a D. Runs very similar Offense to what Baker did at OU. He's a quick read and shows the eye discipline needed to hold Safeties deep when his primary is a quick slant. Also throws well on the move including rolls to his left where he squares nicely to the LOS to deliver the ball.

Escapability is good, but he's not a runner and he bails only to buy time. If target is available, then he will stand and delver in the face of pressure.

At 6'2 with 9-1/2" hands Will physically he lacks some of the "optimal dimensions" of the prototypical NFL QB, but who really knows what those are anymore? For example: Baker Mayfield.

I really like this kid... and rumor has it so does Bill and the Pats. Better them than the Bengals whose GM, stillmotion, took him in our mock.

Take a look if you have not done so... lots of cutdowns available.

 

Great stuff!   Here's the last 2 years of "thy Will be done" at WVU

2017  11 G  250-388  64.4 cmp%  3490 yds  9.0 ypa  34 TD 12 INT

2018  11 G  266-397  67.0 cmp%  3864 yds  9.7 ypa  37 TD  7 INT

I'm gonna go Faber College "Double Secret" Dark Horse with NC State's Ryan Finley.  I wouldn't be doing this if he didn't leave me with a powerful first impression vrs Syracuse (who came dangerously close to beating Clemson a 2nd straight year).  Anyway, this guy threw with incredible anticipation while blending quick release with good split-second decisions all game.  In all, his performance tallied 26 of 44 for 473 yards with 3 TD passes and 1 INT while leading his offense to 41 points at the Carrier Dome on a day Rip Van Winkle coordinated NC State's Defense to a forfeiture of 51 points.   Finley is another guy rumored not to have a cannon so his level of football sexy probably gets diluted to a mid-late round projection.  Having said that, when you possess a pre-snap intellect and vision that allows you to consistently process the defense in front of you quickly enough to get the ball where it has to go - one doesn't need a bazooka to succeed. 

Here's Ryan Finley's stats during the 3 years he started for the Wolfpack:

2016  13 G  243-402  60.4 cmp%  3059 yds  7.6 ypa  18 TD  8 INT                                                                                               

2017  13 G  311-478  65.1 cmp%  3514 yds  7.4 ypa  17 TD  6 INT

2018  13 G  326-482  67.4 cmp%  3928 yds  8.1 ypa  25 TD  11 INT

Gotta have?  No.  Steady improvement?  Absolutely.   If this kid goes to the right situation like NE per say, he could learn from another QB who wasn't anyone's dream PRE-draft (although 1 very creepy rumor has it Brady caused just enough pre-draft groinal warming that Woody lost his wet dream virginity.  Stay tuned? No thanks!)

Edited by Flugel
formatting stats into 1 line
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So I'm eating 2nd breakfast on a beautiful Saturday morning and dialed up some Grier tape.    First one I'm watching at full speed with zero stops is the TT game.

 

The smallest things caught my eye starting at 9:50 that made me go "hmm" and has me wanting to watch more when I can.      

Anyone care to guess what those things are?

 

edit:  I'm far from being in complete agreement which is rare between Tour and myself.   BUT - I think I can see why he started watching Will and where his interest started being raised.

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2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Anyone care to guess what those things are?

His WRs suck? ;)

Couple bad hands drops... including a stone hands doink into the air he was lucky was not INT'd.

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4 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

His WRs suck? ;)

Couple bad hands drops... including a stone hands doink into the air he was lucky was not INT'd.

Oh no,  his receivers are not good.  They either house contested catches or drop open passes and seemingly no where in between. 

But Will taking his time at the line,  giving a dummy hard count... Twice,  trying to get the additional rusher to jump and declare who was free (thus who he is accountable for) isn't something you see much of at this level. 

First indication he has "it" Between the ears. 

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14 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Just realized I did not complete the above thought. What I meant to add was...

But also like Mayfield Will is a put together 6'2 specimen. That is at 211# he looks "thick", like he can take hits without making the home crowd hold their breath.

Which is the opposite of Murray. And like Lamar Jackson, I'm not running no stinkin' 40 for you- check my tape if you don't think I'm fast.  

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