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The Gipper

Solution to Tanking??

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I keep hearing a lot of talk  on TV and radio about teams purposely "tanking"...trying to lose, and a lot of gnashing at the teeth at how to prevent it:

There is one real big solution:  relegation..like they do in European soccer.   You get sent to the minor leagues.  

Only thing is, in this country, only baseball and hockey have true  what you could call AAA minor leagues at this point.   Basketball and football do not really have that.....unless, they make a deal with like the AAF to become a true minor league with the NFL. 

It would work this way:

The AAF moves to the fall....and any team currently in an NFL market moves to a non NFL market.  Plus the AAF expands to maybe 12 teams.

If you have the worst 2 records in the NFL.....you get sent down to play in the AAF the next year.  You also lose your draft position.  The two teams that play in the AAF title game move up to the NFL.  

Of course no owner of an NFL team would ever agree, so the vote would likely be 32-0 against....but hey...it IS a solution to a problem.

 

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There wouldn't even be a vote, so it isn't a solution.

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1 hour ago, ballpeen said:

There wouldn't even be a vote, so it isn't a solution.

Well....it could be a solution, but certainly you are right.

Do you have an alternate solution to purposeful tanking?

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Only solution I'd ever see to getting rid of tanking would be to keep a salary cap and make every rookie coming into the league a free agent and have no draft. 

But that opens the door for other issues. 

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13 minutes ago, hx214 said:

Only solution I'd ever see to getting rid of tanking would be to keep a salary cap and make every rookie coming into the league a free agent and have no draft. 

But that opens the door for other issues. 

Tanking is\was more prevalent in the NBA. So, perhaps the NFL should follow the lead of the NBA when it comes to the draft. The three teams with the worst records all have an equal chance at the #1 pick. Pull the teams names out of a hat. First one out gets the first pick. 

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interesting question, but how would the NFL ascertain guilt? Unless you wiretap the coaches or team players ...lol.

Was it a coaches/management ploy, or an offense and/or defense stars hated the coaches, and decided to get rid of them by losing on purpose? Punish the team? how would you punish the players? I suppose the player's union would have to be brought into it.

But as far as having proven the intentional tanking, I'd think losing their first round pick altogether would work.

Tanking wouldn't be worth the risk, I suppose.

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1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Tanking is\was more prevalent in the NBA. So, perhaps the NFL should follow the lead of the NBA when it comes to the draft. The three teams with the worst records all have an equal chance at the #1 pick. Pull the teams names out of a hat. First one out gets the first pick. 

I think that could be the ticket.    The one obvious situation was when the Colts purposefully tanked in order to get Luck.

Of course, if you just pull them out of a hat, then you have the whole issue of where the league's "preferred" team's card is put in the freezer before being pulled...just like with Patrick Ewing.

And why do I believe that some shenanigans are going to go on this year in order to insure that Zion makes it to the Knicks?

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1 minute ago, The Gipper said:

And why do I believe that some shenanigans are going to go on this year in order to insure that Zion makes it to the Knicks?

Zion has to be the biggest name since LeBron. 

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4 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Well....it could be a solution, but certainly you are right.

Do you have an alternate solution to purposeful tanking?

I don't have a solution.  There probably isn't one unless you go to a NBA lottery, and that wouldn't work.  

 

I don't see tanking as that big of a problem in the NFL due to team size.  In the NBA, with only 5 starters,  only 1 guy makes a huge difference, so teams start tanking very early in the season.

 

The Browns just tanked a few seasons to gain cap space and high picks.

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GM's can tank on there roster hirings/cuts & drafts by trading out..this does not mean the Coaches & Players will ever tank..

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15 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

GM's can tank on there roster hirings/cuts & drafts by trading out..this does not mean the Coaches & Players will ever tank..

I think coaches can be in on the plan.  At least the head coach.

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This is only a thing in European sports [soccer, basketball etc], where teams in the league directly below the top have revenue/expense structures precisely the same as the bottom 6-7 clubs of the top league.  In the US, not feasible due to infrastructure and player salary costs.

Interestingly, as soccer gets more revenue in the US, this might actually work in that sport.  It won't happen, but soccer is the only sport where the next 2/3 divisions are explicitly competing with the top league [MLS] rather than built as a planned player development structure of the top club.  MLS recently added one of the lower-tier teams as an "expansion" team.

Can't propose relegation until you deal with the $$ reality.  And most owners would vote against -- because they know they'll have a bad year eventually.

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My suggestion would be to use a 3 season rolling average to determine draft position. Eliminates the one year miracle of the Colts/Luck scenario.

Just requires math.

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17 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I keep hearing a lot of talk  on TV and radio about teams purposely "tanking"...trying to lose, and a lot of gnashing at the teeth at how to prevent it:

There is one real big solution:  relegation..like they do in European soccer.   You get sent to the minor leagues.  

Only thing is, in this country, only baseball and hockey have true  what you could call AAA minor leagues at this point.   Basketball and football do not really have that.....unless, they make a deal with like the AAF to become a true minor league with the NFL. 

It would work this way:

The AAF moves to the fall....and any team currently in an NFL market moves to a non NFL market.  Plus the AAF expands to maybe 12 teams.

If you have the worst 2 records in the NFL.....you get sent down to play in the AAF the next year.  You also lose your draft position.  The two teams that play in the AAF title game move up to the NFL.  

Of course no owner of an NFL team would ever agree, so the vote would likely be 32-0 against....but hey...it IS a solution to a problem.

 

Too bad this is completely a waste of time. The players aren’t the ones tanking. It’s all on management. Ya, send an owner to the minors. 

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One problem is that a team can lose it's QB in game one and then be total crap from that point on.  Especially if they weren't a very good team to start with.

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15 hours ago, ballpeen said:

I don't have a solution.  There probably isn't one unless you go to a NBA lottery, and that wouldn't work.  

 

I don't see tanking as that big of a problem in the NFL due to team size.  In the NBA, with only 5 starters,  only 1 guy makes a huge difference, so teams start tanking very early in the season.

 

The Browns just tanked a few seasons to gain cap space and high picks.

Well, the one time that I think tanking does happen is when there seems to be one of these "generational QBs"  possibly in the draft....like when Luck was coming up. 

But you are right....that is a rare circumstance.

And you are right about it being more prevalent in the NBA.....we have 3 tankers now vying for the top spot for Zion.....including the Cavs.  I hope they are successful.

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2 hours ago, Orion said:

One problem is that a team can lose it's QB in game one and then be total crap from that point on.  Especially if they weren't a very good team to start with.

See  SF 49ers?

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On 3/27/2019 at 3:59 PM, ballpeen said:

I think coaches can be in on the plan.  At least the head coach.

hahaha no wonder hue looked so confused when he got canned

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I don't think it's a problem in the NFL. We are the poster children for an NFL front office doing a scorched earth rebuild ala Astros/76ers at the NFL level, and it works a lot faster ... We blew up a 3-13 team, two years of suckitude til we found the QB, one year of promise and now the fanbase is crazed and waiting for opening kickoff and we're probably gonna have 5 primetime games.

Would I go through 1-31 again to be where we are now? Yes.

By the way, players don't tank. They don't want us to draft better players to take their jobs. But front offices do. And we had the perfect coach, because he was just clueless.

Zombo

--I think tanking is most painful in the NBA. I still want to watch a young football team or young baseball team develop young talent, but watching an NBA team spiral and hope for a ping pong ball isn't very sporting.

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16 minutes ago, Zombo said:

I don't think it's a problem in the NFL. We are the poster children for an NFL front office doing a scorched earth rebuild ala Astros/76ers at the NFL level, and it works a lot faster ... We blew up a 3-13 team, two years of suckitude til we found the QB, one year of promise and now the fanbase is crazed and waiting for opening kickoff and we're probably gonna have 5 primetime games.

Would I go through 1-31 again to be where we are now? Yes.

By the way, players don't tank. They don't want us to draft better players to take their jobs. But front offices do. And we had the perfect coach, because he was just clueless.

Zombo

--I think tanking is most painful in the NBA. I still want to watch a young football team or young baseball team develop young talent, but watching an NBA team spiral and hope for a ping pong ball isn't very sporting.

He didn't have a clhue

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33 minutes ago, Zombo said:

By the way, players don't tank. They don't want us to draft better players to take their jobs. But front offices do. 

Zombo

Example X Y & Z.. 9Ka7.gif        

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One solution I've heard is that the NFL has a draft lottery. But rather than the worst team having the best chance at landing the #1 pick, maybe every team that doesn't make the playoffs has even odds? It would certainly ensure that no team would tank for the worst record.

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Air power is superior to tanking as well as some quality artillery

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3 hours ago, Kvoethe said:

Air power is superior to tanking as well as some quality artillery

Are you trying to start an Army vs. Air Force argument? 

The poor Navy...it gets no  football metaphors.  For them their metaphors get confined to like water polo.

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On 3/30/2019 at 9:16 AM, Zombo said:

I don't think it's a problem in the NFL. We are the poster children for an NFL front office doing a scorched earth rebuild ala Astros/76ers at the NFL level, and it works a lot faster ... We blew up a 3-13 team, two years of suckitude til we found the QB, one year of promise and now the fanbase is crazed and waiting for opening kickoff and we're probably gonna have 5 primetime games.

Would I go through 1-31 again to be where we are now? Yes.

By the way, players don't tank. They don't want us to draft better players to take their jobs. But front offices do. And we had the perfect coach, because he was just clueless.

Zombo

--I think tanking is most painful in the NBA. I still want to watch a young football team or young baseball team develop young talent, but watching an NBA team spiral and hope for a ping pong ball isn't very sporting.

Well, we did go through 1-31 to get to where we are. But I wouldn't want to repeat the process, as I'm running out of "wait till next years"- fast.  Way too many other teams haven't totally bottomed out, and then gone to the Super Bowl. And just going 0-16 isn't necessarily going to get you back to the top any faster either. Like the Browns, the once upon a time 0-16 Lions are still waiting for their first trip to the Big Game too.  

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1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Well, we did go through 1-31 to get to where we are. But I wouldn't want to repeat the process, as I'm running out of "wait till next years"- fast.  Way too many other teams haven't totally bottomed out, and then gone to the Super Bowl. And just going 0-16 isn't necessarily going to get you back to the top any faster either. Like the Browns, the once upon a time 0-16 Lions are still waiting for their first trip to the Big Game too.  

The Cowboys went from 1-15 to Super Bowl champs in like 2 years, no?

In checking it was like this:

1989  1-15...............2017....0-16

1990 7-9..................2018...7-8-1

1991 11-5 lost in  2 round......2019....?????

1992 13-3  Won SB.......2020....Super Bowl!!!!

1993 12-4 Won SB.....2021....Super Bowl!!!!!

1994 12-4  Lost NFC title game......2022.Oops, tripped up[

1995 12-4  Won SB..........2023  Super Bowl!!!

I would take a run like that :o:lol:

 

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Worst team doesn't get a 1st round pick, but gets an extra 3rd 4th and 5th...    Make sure they aren't tanking just to get the prize college player that next year.. But not punish them for needed talent in the deeper rounds.

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17 hours ago, The Gipper said:

The Cowboys went from 1-15 to Super Bowl champs in like 2 years, no?

In checking it was like this:

1989  1-15...............2017....0-16

1990 7-9..................2018...7-8-1

1991 11-5 lost in  2 round......2019....?????

1992 13-3  Won SB.......2020....Super Bowl!!!!

1993 12-4 Won SB.....2021....Super Bowl!!!!!

1994 12-4  Lost NFC title game......2022.Oops, tripped up[

1995 12-4  Won SB..........2023  Super Bowl!!!

I would take a run like that :o:lol:

 

Do we get extra credit and go up twice as fast for tanking 1-15 and 0-16 back to back?🤗

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