darren15 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I was just thinking how many different rankings we would get for each category ....... without trying to be Cleveland bias please rank these in order based on current skills .... my rankings are next to name QB TOM BRADY 1 DREW BREES 3 BAKER MAYFIELD 5 ANDREW LUCK 6 RUSSELL WILSON 7 PHILIP RIVERS 9 DESHAUN WATSON 8 MATT RYAN 10 PAT MAHOMES 2 AARON RODGERS 4 WR ODELL BECKHAM 3 AJ GREEN 10 ANTONIO BROWN 4 TYREEK HILL 8 DEANDRE HOPKINS 1 JULIO JONES 2 KEENAN ALLEN 7 MICHAEL THOMAS 6 DEVANTE ADAMS 5 MIKE EVANS 9 RB KAREEM HUNT 6 MELVIN GORDON 8 SAQUON BARKLEY 1 EZEKIEL ELLIOTT 4 NICK CHUBB 7 DAVID JOHNSON 10 ALVIN KAMARA 3 TODD GURLEY 2 CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY 5 LEONARD FOURNETTE 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I would put Matt Ryan further up. If they had a decent defense they would have more wins. Hill should be higher if he plays. And Fornette when healthy is top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, darren15 said: I was just thinking how many different rankings we would get for each category ....... without trying to be Cleveland bias please rank these in order based on current skills .... my rankings are next to name QB TOM BRADY 1 DREW BREES 3 BAKER MAYFIELD 5 ANDREW LUCK 6 RUSSELL WILSON 7 PHILIP RIVERS 9 DESHAUN WATSON 8 MATT RYAN 10 PAT MAHOMES 2 AARON RODGERS 4 WR ODELL BECKHAM 3 AJ GREEN 10 ANTONIO BROWN 4 TYREEK HILL 8 DEANDRE HOPKINS 1 JULIO JONES 2 KEENAN ALLEN 7 MICHAEL THOMAS 6 DEVANTE ADAMS 5 MIKE EVANS 9 RB KAREEM HUNT 6 MELVIN GORDON 8 SAQUON BARKLEY 1 EZEKIEL ELLIOTT 4 NICK CHUBB 7 DAVID JOHNSON 10 ALVIN KAMARA 3 TODD GURLEY 2 CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY 5 LEONARD FOURNETTE 9 I'm the biggest homer there is, and there is no way you can rank Mayfield over guys like Wilson, Rivers and Ryan ... YET. He is still growing into his skills. Russell Wilson should be in that five spot, and everyone else should move up a spot, and throw Ben in there ... give Baker another year of NFL development. Not that I dont think he won't top this list eventually, seems a bit premature and disrespectful to these other guys at this point. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 hours ago, darren15 said: I was just thinking how many different rankings we would get for each category ....... without trying to be Cleveland bias please rank these in order based on current skills .... my rankings are next to name QB TOM BRADY 1 DREW BREES 3 BAKER MAYFIELD 5 ANDREW LUCK 6 RUSSELL WILSON 7 PHILIP RIVERS 9 DESHAUN WATSON 8 MATT RYAN 10 PAT MAHOMES 2 AARON RODGERS 4 Sorry, but Ben R. (as much as I wish it were not so) still has to rank in the Top Ten. If Cam Newton were healthy he too would have to be in there. WR ODELL BECKHAM 3 AJ GREEN 10 ANTONIO BROWN 4 TYREEK HILL 8 DEANDRE HOPKINS 1 JULIO JONES 2 KEENAN ALLEN 7 MICHAEL THOMAS 6 DEVANTE ADAMS 5 MIKE EVANS 9 RB KAREEM HUNT 6 MELVIN GORDON 8 SAQUON BARKLEY 1 EZEKIEL ELLIOTT 4 NICK CHUBB 7 DAVID JOHNSON 10 ALVIN KAMARA 3 TODD GURLEY 2 CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY 5 LEONARD FOURNETTE 9 I think Elliott is #1....and now that L. Bell is back he has to go on here. With Hunt's suspension, I would not rank him at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Zombo said: I'm the biggest homer there is, and there is no way you can rank Mayfield over guys like Wilson, Rivers and Ryan ... YET. He is still growing into his skills. Russell Wilson should be in that five spot, and everyone else should move up a spot, and throw Ben in there ... give Baker another year of NFL development. Not that I dont think he won't top this list eventually, seems a bit premature and disrespectful to these other guys at this point. I disagree - he is growing into his skills, sure, but I see him having skills that several on the list do not have - to the degree that Baker has them. Sure, experience proves to be a serious advantage - but I"ve seen Baker display abilities as a qb far beyond several other qb's in the NFL whose experience hasn't helped them accrue the skills. But, these ratings need to take into account the talent around them, or it's just spitting into the wind, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, calfoxwc said: I disagree - he is growing into his skills, sure, but I see him having skills that several on the list do not have - to the degree that Baker has them. Sure, experience proves to be a serious advantage - but I"ve seen Baker display abilities as a qb far beyond several other qb's in the NFL whose experience hasn't helped them accrue the skills. But, these ratings need to take into account the talent around them, or it's just spitting into the wind, I think. I'll agree that Baker has shown more raw talent than any Browns QB since Bernie. (Yeah, more than our other #1 QB Tim Couch) But I do have some concerns about the dreaded "sophomore slump". Teams now have plenty of tape on Mayfield, let's hope the rookie year wasn't an aberration. Horse Balls Anderson looked great for 10 games until he got figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 This kind of reminds me of our FL Drafts wich will be coming up in about 5 short months. Those FL ranking lists are handy in figuring out the #1, 2, 3.. at each position.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, hoorta said: I'll agree that Baker has shown more raw talent than any Browns QB since Bernie. (Yeah, more than our other #1 QB Tim Couch) But I do have some concerns about the dreaded "sophomore slump". Teams now have plenty of tape on Mayfield, let's hope the rookie year wasn't an aberration. Horse Balls Anderson looked great for 10 games until he got figured out. This is true - but I think bigfoot Anderson had flaws defenses took advantage of - not mobile, not seeing the field, big arm no touch, not very smart, poor leadership, etc. I believe his wonderlick score was 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I'll do QBs QB TOM BRADY 1 DREW BREES 3 BAKER MAYFIELD 9 ANDREW LUCK 8 RUSSELL WILSON 5 PHILIP RIVERS 6 DESHAUN WATSON 10 MATT RYAN 7 PAT MAHOMES 4 AARON RODGERS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 in terms of skills, I put Baker tied with Mahomes at 4. Not in accomplishments, of course, but in the abilities to be a qb game changer. Just my goofy opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 QB AARON RODGERS - the QB who elevates all around him better than anyone else. DREW BREES - flourished as a gunslinger... flourishing now as a field general... great PAP ability TOM BRADY - yes, I could see signs of decline in 2018, but with a game on the line late, who would you want over Tom Terrific? ANDREW LUCK - I'm so glad he's back... Texan fans not so much... PAT MAHOMES - Only QB that can best Baker in the excITement factor, but need a repeat at close to same level. BAKER MAYFIELD - Ditto above except "get anywhere close to Pat" RUSSELL WILSON - for God's sake, give the man an OL that can protect... how he holds up under the demands Carroll makes is beyond me. PHILIP RIVERS - the cranky old SOB, can still play... DESHAUN WATSON - I ain't convinced... MATT RYAN - played well last season... again... but has he ever strung two season together??? WR ANTONIO BROWN - The dude flat gets open DEANDRE HOPKINS - Best 50/50 ball WR... great hands... JULIO JONES - talent + imposing presence... kinda inherited the Megatron mantel... MICHAEL THOMAS - what gift to NOLA... and Brees... AJ GREEN - TBH... I've never gotten Green ODELL BECKHAM - availability and "tude" concerns... TYREEK HILL - dangerous to be sure, but still developing as a route runner. MIKE EVANS - more than just a big body, but I think the sun sets early on this one due to the physical toll. KEENAN ALLEN - really exciting #1-ish guy, but Benji being his #2 helps him a lot. JARVIS LANDRY - his body of work including MIA years makes him an easy sub for ADAMS on my list... RB SAQUON BARKLEY - Po was right about his talent, but not his draft value... There's a new bell cow in the league. TODD GURLEY - Simply the man... before SaqBark arrived... EZEKIEL ELLIOTT - hardest working man on the list... gets rode the hardest... and delivers. MELVIN GORDON - tad one dimensional to be any higher. CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY - everyone knew he'd be a dangerous 3rd-down guy, but 2018 showed that an undersized white boy can be the man takin' the rock as well. DAVID JOHNSON - has an "ability" problem... as in "avail-"... KAREEM HUNT - want to be higher, KH? Do 2017 again, but as a Brown. NICK CHUBB - early returns are very very promising (see above except for 2018 in place of 2017... and for a full season). ALVIN KAMARA - fantastic "change of pace" RB, but hasn't yet shown he can be "the guy"... maybe this year.with Inman moving on... LEONARD FOURNETTE - one dimensional... plus I get to piss off Ag... Nice thread, darren... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Tour2ma said: QB AARON RODGERS - the QB who elevates all around him better than anyone else. DREW BREES - flourished as a gunslinger... flourishing now as a field general... great PAP ability TOM BRADY - yes, I could see signs of decline in 2018, but with a game on the line late, who would you want over Tom Terrific? ANDREW LUCK - I'm so glad he's back... Texan fans not so much... PAT MAHOMES - Only QB that can best Baker in the excITement factor, but need a repeat at close to same level. BAKER MAYFIELD - Ditto above except "get anywhere close to Pat" RUSSELL WILSON - for God's sake, give the man an OL that can protect... how he holds up under the demands Carroll makes is beyond me. PHILIP RIVERS - the cranky old SOB, can still play... DESHAUN WATSON - I ain't convinced... MATT RYAN - played well last season... again... but has he ever strung two season together??? WR ANTONIO BROWN - The dude flat gets open DEANDRE HOPKINS - Best 50/50 ball WR... great hands... JULIO JONES - talent + imposing presence... kinda inherited the Megatron mantel... MICHAEL THOMAS - what gift to NOLA... and Brees... AJ GREEN - TBH... I've never gotten Green ODELL BECKHAM - availability and "tude" concerns... TYREEK HILL - dangerous to be sure, but still developing as a route runner. MIKE EVANS - more than just a big body, but I think the sun sets early on this one due to the physical toll. KEENAN ALLEN - really exciting #1-ish guy, but Benji being his #2 helps him a lot. JARVIS LANDRY - his body of work including MIA years makes him an easy sub for ADAMS on my list... RB SAQUON BARKLEY - Po was right about his talent, but not his draft value... There's a new bell cow in the league. TODD GURLEY - Simply the man... before SaqBark arrived... EZEKIEL ELLIOTT - hardest working man on the list... gets rode the hardest... and delivers. MELVIN GORDON - tad one dimensional to be any higher. CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY - everyone knew he'd be a dangerous 3rd-down guy, but 2018 showed that an undersized white boy can be the man takin' the rock as well. DAVID JOHNSON - has an "ability" problem... as in "avail-"... KAREEM HUNT - want to be higher, KH? Do 2017 again, but as a Brown. NICK CHUBB - early returns are very very promising (see above except for 2018 in place of 2017... and for a full season). ALVIN KAMARA - fantastic "change of pace" RB, but hasn't yet shown he can be "the guy"... maybe this year.with Inman moving on... LEONARD FOURNETTE - one dimensional... plus I get to piss off Ag... Nice thread, darren... Only thing I'd change is putting Ryan up higher, and based on past production, Bell belongs on that list- somewhere- at least #5 for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 9 hours ago, hoorta said: I'll agree that Baker has shown more raw talent than any Browns QB since Bernie. (Yeah, more than our other #1 QB Tim Couch) But I do have some concerns about the dreaded "sophomore slump". Teams now have plenty of tape on Mayfield, let's hope the rookie year wasn't an aberration. Horse Balls Anderson looked great for 10 games until he got figured out. Completely agree, let's pump the brakes a little bit for any of these young guys. I get the optimism and bias, but I remember reading somewhere (it could have been on this board or somewhere else with Browns fans) where to not give so much credit to someone as there is now tape on him (maybe James Conner). Well the same can be said for the Browns guys. As for the lists: As much as I dislike him, and I mean REALLY dislike him, Luck should certainly be above Baker right now, along with a few others. As for WR, again I STRONGLY dislike Brown, but he has certainly had more success than OBJ. So has Hill. I don't know if the objective was to rank for their career so far, this upcoming season, or future. That would help clarify how to rank them. It says current skills, but both Rodgers and Mahomes at the very least have more skills than Brady at this point. And WR wise, Hill is way too low at 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 15 hours ago, hoorta said: Only thing I'd change is putting Ryan up higher, and based on past production, Bell belongs on that list- somewhere- at least #5 for starters. Agree... I was working more off of reordering darren's list than thinking about my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 17 hours ago, hoorta said: Only thing I'd change is putting Ryan up higher, and based on past production, Bell belongs on that list- somewhere- at least #5 for starters. except it's supposed to be "skills", and not production/accomplishments etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 21 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: except it's supposed to be "skills", and not production/accomplishments etc. What good are certain skills if you cannot apply them to achieve any production or accomplishments? Jamarcus Russell had the skill of being able to throw the ball 80 yards from his knees....but what did he produce as a QB? Bell certainly has skills....and production. (but it does no good if he sits out...certainly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 you miss the point. Grading Baker on accomplishments is bogus, since he was a rookie last year.Of COURSE Brady etc are more ACCOMPLISHED. Russell had other glaring problems - learning the offense, his weight, work ethic, many more ints than TD's, he didn't see the field well in the pros. It's a different, huge step up in speed and complexity. Russell was one of the biggest busts. The POINT IS, actual SKILLS needed to be effective in the pros, not how many superbowls, etc they've accomplished over the years. Baker was just a rookie. Baker Mayfield rocked the NFL - his skills really showed. It doesn't mean he doesn't have them because he didn't go to a superbowl. Sure, his skills will be advanced with experience, but he had skills at Oklahoma that several NFL qb's never will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 38 minutes ago, calfoxwc said: you miss the point. Grading Baker on accomplishments is bogus, since he was a rookie last year.Of COURSE Brady etc are more ACCOMPLISHED. Russell had other glaring problems - learning the offense, his weight, work ethic, many more ints than TD's, he didn't see the field well in the pros. It's a different, huge step up in speed and complexity. Russell was one of the biggest busts. The POINT IS, actual SKILLS needed to be effective in the pros, not how many superbowls, etc they've accomplished over the years. Baker was just a rookie. Baker Mayfield rocked the NFL - his skills really showed. It doesn't mean he doesn't have them because he didn't go to a superbowl. Sure, his skills will be advanced with experience, but he had skills at Oklahoma that several NFL qb's never will have. OK, I probably did miss the point because I took your post out of the context in which you meant it. My point remains valid...just in another context. Certainly you cannot compare the production/accomplishments of Baker vs. these others who have been in the league for 15 years, Brady/BR/Brees/ etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 Before we get ahead of ourselves, just keep a few things in mind. 1. Baker did have a good rookie season, but just like other guys there is tape on him now. And while certainly impressive, part of the reason that he set the new record is how the game has evolved. And using a rookie season and awards and success to predict future doesnt always work out. There was ALOT of optimism in Washington for RG3. What do these guys have in common, RG3, Teddy Twatwater, Sam Bradford, Vince Young? They have all won ROY awards. Dont misunderstand me, I DON'T THINK THAT WILL BE BAKER, but I do believe that the fans for those teams probably had similar hope as we as Browns fans do. As far as comparing with Derek Anderson. Most of what was said above could be said about Cam Newton (he is mobile, I dont think he sees the field great, he certainly has a big arm with inconsistent accuracy, I don't know about his intelligence, and I wouldn't call him a great leader.) The point is that he would at least be somewhat compared to that profile of DA, and he has been an MVP and in Super Bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 4 hours ago, Gunz41 said: Before we get ahead of ourselves, just keep a few things in mind. 1. Baker did have a good rookie season, but just like other guys there is tape on him now. And while certainly impressive, part of the reason that he set the new record is how the game has evolved. And using a rookie season and awards and success to predict future doesnt always work out. There was ALOT of optimism in Washington for RG3. What do these guys have in common, RG3, Teddy Twatwater, Sam Bradford, Vince Young? They have all won ROY awards. Dont misunderstand me, I DON'T THINK THAT WILL BE BAKER, but I do believe that the fans for those teams probably had similar hope as we as Browns fans do. As far as comparing with Derek Anderson. Most of what was said above could be said about Cam Newton (he is mobile, I dont think he sees the field great, he certainly has a big arm with inconsistent accuracy, I don't know about his intelligence, and I wouldn't call him a great leader.) The point is that he would at least be somewhat compared to that profile of DA, and he has been an MVP and in Super Bowl good post, but may I add, Cam ran a 4.56 forty, liked to run. Bigfoot Anderson ran about a 5.03 at best, sometimes 5.23 and didn't run very often - but did scramble big catching defenses off guard. whatever. but Anderson and Cam weren't all that different - good point.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 7 hours ago, calfoxwc said: good post, but may I add, Cam ran a 4.56 forty, liked to run. Bigfoot Anderson ran about a 5.03 at best, sometimes 5.23 and didn't run very often - but did scramble big catching defenses off guard. whatever. but Anderson and Cam weren't all that different - good point.. A lot of QBs can catch a defense off guard, but Cam is mobile. That is a big part of his game. The point I was trying to make is that DA lit it up like hoorta said. A lot were excited for his future. Then he regressed. And you said you saw these things with him, and all are true. But they also could describe Cam, and he is a franchise QB. He just has more talent. The basic point is to pump the brakes a bit on BM. I expect him to continue to progress, but there are many examples of amazing starts who then faded into oblivion. There is also a scale of happy medium between the incredible start and being on a HOF incline and fizzling out of the league. By scale I mean still being a good starting QB to quality backup. For an example, Jeremy Lin. From what I have seen, BM is going to be a Top 5 QB in the future, so the future is bright, I just wouldn't anoint him there at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 I agree. It's just, the makeup of the Browns now, even before the draft, I'm trying to not go overboard with my enthusiam, but after not being too sure about Baker before the draft - he's won most folks over. Well, trying to not go overbo... dammit. SUPERBOWL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, calfoxwc said: I agree. It's just, the makeup of the Browns now, even before the draft, I'm trying to not go overboard with my enthusiam, but after not being too sure about Baker before the draft - he's won most folks over. Well, trying to not go overbo... dammit. SUPERBOWL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whenever I think of you Cal from here on out, this will be the image that comes to mind. Pretty fucking funny!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, calfoxwc said: I agree. It's just, the makeup of the Browns now, even before the draft, I'm trying to not go overboard with my enthusiam, but after not being too sure about Baker before the draft - he's won most folks over. Well, trying to not go overbo... dammit. SUPERBOWL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think most agree with the expectations (not the Super Bowl part), but to me I will temper mine. I have seen too many times within my coaching, with other sports, and on this board premature inflated expectations. Maybe not unanimously, but just remember the great excitement over Hue, Josh Gordon, Danny Shelton, heck even Hoyer and JM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted March 27, 2019 Report Share Posted March 27, 2019 Factoring in past performance and my expectations for this season along with supporting team. Also ranked only players in OP post, there are notable omissions Pig Pen, L Bell . I defend my ranking of Chubb as non homer with almost 1000 yards in 9 games started. OBJ has a per game performance only exceeded by Julio Jones in all of NFL history with a marginal QB the last few years. QB AARON RODGERS 4 4 ANDREW LUCK 6 6 BAKER MAYFIELD 5 5 DESHAUN WATSON 8 9 DREW BREES 3 2 MATT RYAN 10 8 PAT MAHOMES 2 1 PHILIP RIVERS 9 7 RUSSELL WILSON 7 10 TOM BRADY 1 3 WR AJ GREEN 10 4 ANTONIO BROWN 4 2 DEANDRE HOPKINS 1 8 DEVANTE ADAMS 5 9 JULIO JONES 2 5 KEENAN ALLEN 7 10 MICHAEL THOMAS 6 3 MIKE EVANS 9 7 ODELL BECKHAM 3 1 TYREEK HILL 8 6 RB ALVIN KAMARA 3 3 CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY 5 6 DAVID JOHNSON 10 9 EZEKIEL ELLIOTT 4 4 KAREEM HUNT 6 7 LEONARD FOURNETTE 9 10 MELVIN GORDON 8 8 NICK CHUBB 7 5 SAQUON BARKLEY 1 1 TODD GURLEY 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Share Posted March 30, 2019 long one but interesting. Click to page 3 where Baker lands if no patience.. top NFL team QB's on deep balls https://brickwallblitz.com/2019/02/22/the-2018-19-deep-ball-project-part-1-3/ 14 games played Baker..Well Done #6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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