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BobPOUND!

Is Dorsey making his move THIS year?

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I personally felt at the end of last year that we were easily 2 more seasons away from even thinking about making a move for the Super Bowl. But given our moves so far, I think he might be going for it THIS year.

Let look at last year. Take out the bad calls and the missed field goals and where does that put us at the end of 2018/19?  Possibly in the playoffs already...   

But lets put those bad calls and missed field goals back in, what stands out as what REALLY caused us to lose so many of those games.... Run defense, pure and simple. We couldn't close down the teams we needed to close down. 1st Pittsburgh game.. We stop the running of Conner or even curtail it a little and that game is ours. New Orleans, same deal.  

With a few more moves in free agency on the Offensive side, a couple of big bodies to shore up the Oline and a big Tight End that can catch(Cook from the Raiders anyone??) and that's about it if you ask me..

I have re-watched nearly every game multiple multiple times.. Only three games were blowouts where we never stood a chance.. Charger, Texans and Chiefs.. And I could make an argument that even the Chiefs was winnable had we been able to stop them in the short pass game. Bad tackling plagued us last year as well.. Short passes killed us almost as much as the run game throughout the season.

Offensive production has not been our issue. With the group we already have, we stood in with nearly every single team we played. With the addition of a few more good players on offense, I see no reason that we won't stay at least as good as last year, but likely BETTER even if nothing else changes. Baker is going to be better and likely stronger. Playing with the first team from the start...

NO... The issue was the defense last year.. I loved William's aggressive play calling, but we just didn't have the personnel to pull it off.. We need sure handed tackling when things are forced back into the middle.. We were getting to the QB, but the offenses that played us after about 1/3'rd of the way through just started moving inside or allowing our aggression to miss the dump pass or screen...

With the addition of these two Defensive linemen and the other tweaks we will make over the coming weeks. We are building for something other than a "Playoff spot".. We are building a team that is ready to make a run now.. Doesn't mean we get there, but I don't think Dorsey is going to be happy with a 1 and done playoff run.. 

If we pick up another 2 big money guys in FA, that is what he is doing.. He is blowing a lot of money now as opposed to waiting till next year...

 

BobPound!
 

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Maybe not SB yet, but playoffs for sure seems to be the aiming point.🤗

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I think much of the matters you detail could be improved with much better linebacker play.

Schobert missed a lot, which hurt, Collins hurt some.   Tackling, run tackling,  not covering RBs well......that is linebacking.

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I would have agreed. But seeing who he is picking up, and the money he is spending, I think its more than "next step playoffs"... I think that is a given. He is building a team that can go deep into the playoff this coming season.. Again, if he blows more money on 28 and 29 year olds, I think it is obvious he wants to make his move now.. Because he is eating allot of our seed corn going into this season... If he is done with the big spending, then I am OK.. But if he goes and drops 30 mil on a big ticket WR or another Defensive player above the age of 28, then its obvious he wants to go for it now..

Not sure I would agree with that path if that is the case.. Keep building the Cap space, keep making the right calls in the Draft.. I don't want one good year next year where we make it the AFC Championship or even the SB, only to fall apart the year after that because we blew our wad... I want a decade of winning...

We shall see. But I get the feeling there are more big moves coming and they are going to be expensive moves.

 

Bob Pound

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4 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I think much of the matters you detail could be improved with much better linebacker play.

Schobert missed a lot, which hurt, Collins hurt some.   Tackling, run tackling,  not covering RBs well......that is linebacking.

Agreed, but think about if we had a line that could stuff the run at the source? What does this mean for our LB and safety? They are then able to cover the short pass or the screen. If Offenses are forced outside, that plays into our strength.. I think with the addition of these two new men in our line, redefines our entire defense.. Shoebert is better at spying and being fast to cover the outside, than being forced to make tackles inside by himself.. 

With the front 4 we have, we don't have to go blitz crazy, we will get pressure both up the middle and on the edge allowing our LB's and safety's to do what they are good at.. Again, that's the way I see it.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, BobPOUND! said:

Agreed, but think about if we had a line that could stuff the run at the source? What does this mean for our LB and safety? They are then able to cover the short pass or the screen. If Offenses are forced outside, that plays into our strength.. I think with the addition of these two new men in our line, redefines our entire defense.. Shoebert is better at spying and being fast to cover the outside, than being forced to make tackles inside by himself.. 

With the front 4 we have, we don't have to go blitz crazy, we will get pressure both up the middle and on the edge allowing our LB's and safety's to do what they are good at.. Again, that's the way I see it.

 

 

Like with everything,  if things in front of you are better, things behind get better.  If we have a better pass rush, that makes our DBs look better. If we have better run defense from the front 4, then the LBs will look better.  

Same on offense, despite what one grotesque person said on here, if your OL performs great, your skill players will perform great.  That is why I say that the loss of Mike Munchak in Pisstown may be as big of a loss as that of Bell and Brown for that team.

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I also wonder about William's and his play calling last year... It was a case of die by the pass or die by the run.. He chose run... We got to the QB a lot last year, but in the end, the OC's just adjusted to us and dumped out of the blitz and they killed us in the later half of the year...

The question is this. How good really is our secondary.. In watching all the games(Multiple times :):) ) ... I noticed that our secondary rarely got burned long.. Was this a case of our secondary really being that good? Or was this a result of our blitz happy scheme. Where the QB never had the time to target long throws and instead dumped it out and had great luck with that, so why go long?

Does the addition of these two men change that dynamic?  Can we rely on a 4 man rush this up coming year, where we force them to pass more, but stop the run? Can our secondary really cover ?    I think in looking at the mix of the guys on the 4 man line, we have Garret who can get to the QB on the outside, combined with Oliver's ability to plug the middle, we might actually get the best of both worlds.. Pressure on the QB AND stuffing the run.. One can dream....

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It can now be argued that the 2019 browns have the league's best pass rush.

I'd say he's thinking long term not quick fix

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31 minutes ago, BobPOUND! said:

I also wonder about William's and his play calling last year... It was a case of die by the pass or die by the run.. He chose run... We got to the QB a lot last year, but in the end, the OC's just adjusted to us and dumped out of the blitz and they killed us in the later half of the year...

The question is this. How good really is our secondary.. In watching all the games(Multiple times :):) ) ... I noticed that our secondary rarely got burned long.. Was this a case of our secondary really being that good? Or was this a result of our blitz happy scheme. Where the QB never had the time to target long throws and instead dumped it out and had great luck with that, so why go long?

Does the addition of these two men change that dynamic?  Can we rely on a 4 man rush this up coming year, where we force them to pass more, but stop the run? Can our secondary really cover ?    I think in looking at the mix of the guys on the 4 man line, we have Garret who can get to the QB on the outside, combined with Oliver's ability to plug the middle, we might actually get the best of both worlds.. Pressure on the QB AND stuffing the run.. One can dream....

You're forgetting Williams MO on defense- don't get beat deep. :) Remember Peppers rookie year where Gregg had him playing so far back he was in a different time zone?

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5 hours ago, hoorta said:

You're forgetting Williams MO on defense- don't get beat deep. :) Remember Peppers rookie year where Gregg had him playing so far back he was in a different time zone?

wasnt that because he had no one else to play back there 

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If the smoke clears and they bring in OBJ too I say he is in win now mode. We have  lot of players who 4 years out are going to be hard to keep the crew together. Relative to the OBJ to Cleveland there is simply too much smoke for it not to be true that they are pursuing him. 

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2 minutes ago, jcam222 said:

If the smoke clears and they bring in OBJ too I say he is in win now mode. We have  lot of players who 4 years out are going to be hard to keep the crew together. Relative to the OBJ to Cleveland there is simply too much smoke for it not to be true that they are pursuing him. 

If the trade for OBJ goes down it will be a rare moment under Dorsey when we saw a move of his coming, though... 

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Well. It's official.We are going for it THIS YEAR...  BUT... He is 26 years old so could still have 5 or 6 years left him.

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1 hour ago, ATOM said:

wasnt that because he had no one else to play back there 

Yes

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12 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Yes

Poor Woody... 

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Ole Buddy Boy!!!!!!  WOW !!!! Talk about a man on a mission   Can’t wait for the season to start , we haven’t gotten to the draft yet this town is ready to explode!!!!

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With the 17th pick in the 2019 NFL Draft The Cleveland Browns select : Odell Beckham JR ..Wide Receiver... New York Giants

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39 minutes ago, darren15 said:

With the 17th pick in the 2019 NFL Draft The Cleveland Browns select : Odell Beckham JR ..Wide Receiver... New York Giants

I have to admit that trading for OBJ was like moving up for a proven #1 overall with a middle 1st, a late 3rd and an early 3rd (since he never showed any late 1st while here). Do the math with the draft value tables and we just robbed 'em. 3000 pts for #1 overall vs. 950 for #17 + around 600 for late 1st rounder (giving Peppers benefit of the play we have seen proving otherwise) + 120 for our 2nd 3rd rounder. Any way you look at it, at best it was a 3000+ proven point guy for 2000 max for the other 3. You take that every day of the week and twice on Sundays in the fall.

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=Cle

That is our updated picks chart above. We still have 8 left. Hit on 3 and we do quite well with all we have added in trades & FA. Send that boy some more gum.

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At his next press conference Dorsey should do his best Rock impersonation “ IF YOU SMELL WHAT THE ROCK IS COOKING “

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Here is what John Dorsey did for the KC Chiefs.. Took over in 2013..  

 

2018 12-4-0 1st -- AFC West 1-0 - Advanced to Conference Championship Andy Reid Roster / Stats
2017 10-6-0 1st -- AFC West 0-1 - Lost Wild Card Playoffs Andy Reid Roster / Stats
2016 12-4-0 1st -- AFC West 0-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Andy Reid Roster / Stats
2015 11-5-0 2nd -- AFC West 1-1 - Lost Divisional Playoffs Andy Reid Roster / Stats
2014 9-7-0 2nd -- AFC West -- Andy Reid Roster / Stats
2013 11-5-0 2nd -- AFC West 0-1 - Lost Wild Card Playoffs Andy Reid Roster / Stats
2012 2-14-0 4th -- AFC West -- Romeo Crennel Roster / Stats

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This year?

The AFCN title, league respect and a "dangerous" playoff opponent? Yes...

The whole ball o' wax? No...

Still need depth at key positions (LB, OL, DB) and lack playoff experience, but the vector is in the right direction.

 

 

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Is Dorsey making his move THIS year?

Yes.

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49 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

This year?

The AFCN title, league respect and a "dangerous" playoff opponent? Yes...

The whole ball o' wax? No...

Still need depth at key positions (LB, OL, DB) and lack playoff experience, but the vector is in the right direction.

 

 

And we still have now many draft picks to help those spots?  Here is a rundown:

 The 2019 NFL Draft order is set. The Browns have eight picks in the draft, but no longer have their first-rounder after trading for Odell Beckham Jr.

Here’s a breakdown of the Browns’ 2019 draft picks:

2019 NFL DRAFT

Second round: No. 49 (own pick).

Third round: No. 80 (own pick).

Fourth round: No. 119 (own pick).

Fifth round: No. 144 (Jaguars’ pick via Carlos Hyde trade); No. 155 (own pick); No. 170 (Patriots’ pick via Josh Gordon trade).

Sixth round: No. 189 (own pick).

Seventh round: No. 221 (Jaguars’ pick via Cody Kessler trade).

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I wonder,   could the Browns package those 3 5th rounders plus #49  to move back into the bottom of the first round?

Not sure what it would take.

THAT would be another big move by Dorsey if he could do that.

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18 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

And we still have now many draft picks to help those spots?  Here is a rundown:

 The 2019 NFL Draft order is set. The Browns have eight picks in the draft, but no longer have their first-rounder after trading for Odell Beckham Jr.

Here’s a breakdown of the Browns’ 2019 draft picks:

2019 NFL DRAFT

Second round: No. 49 (own pick).

Third round: No. 80 (own pick).

Fourth round: No. 119 (own pick).

Fifth round: No. 144 (Jaguars’ pick via Carlos Hyde trade); No. 155 (own pick); No. 170 (Patriots’ pick via Josh Gordon trade).

Sixth round: No. 189 (own pick).

Seventh round: No. 221 (Jaguars’ pick via Cody Kessler trade).

Didn't we swap one of our fifth round picks for the Giants fourth was part of the Zeitler - Vernon trade?

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Not by any pick value chart I know of, Gip...

 

And, yes, we can add developmental depth with the draft we have left, but I don't see it being enough.

That said... FA ain't over yet.

 

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53823455_2411986085521003_56144163435089

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14 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Not by any pick value chart I know of, Gip...

 

And, yes, we can add developmental depth with the draft we have left, but I don't see it being enough.

That said... FA ain't over yet.

 

Worth asking.

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Who else had to google "based god"?

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