darren15 Posted March 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Louisville Slugger said: After Bosa I don't see a starting DE in this draft class. Sweat, Ferguson, Gary are interesting but I am much more comfortable with Vernon starting across from Garrett than relyinging on them to produce. Guard is a very replaceable position unless you got a true mauler and zeitler wasn't. This draft is packed with players who can play G so this was a great move if Vernon stays healthy. We got a legit pass rusher on a 2 year deal who we can cut if he doesn't pan out. Offer the Colts our number 1 for Nelson you wanted a mauler he is the best guard in past few years ...total beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 I'm kind of "Meh" on this trade.. But I get it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 4 hours ago, darren15 said: Offer the Colts our number 1 for Nelson you wanted a mauler he is the best guard in past few years ...total beast That will never happen. The Colts took him higher than #17, and he has the potential to be the best guard since Steve Hutchinson. Not for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 On 3/10/2019 at 9:37 AM, ballpeen said: I like the trade. I'll admit it, I don't know more about our players than do our coaches and Dorsey. Nor do I Ballpeen. I LOVE the job Dorsey is doing at improving the roster talent. That doesn't mean I refuse to appreciate what Zeitler did here last year as close as he lined up to a very productive rookie QB while we had a rookie RB averaging 5.2 yards per carry. If you saw how inconsistent the RT Hubbard was next to him - anyone less than Zeitler or an inexperienced NFL Guard next to Hubbard could have been a disaster. There's a BIG reason we wanted Zeitler to come here; and it's the same reason the Giants wanted him badly today. All that said, I already posted we can still sign a proven veteran FA OG like Rodger Saffold; or we can draft someone; or we can hope Corbett has the same life changing moment Jed Clampett had before he shook up Beverly Hills. The part of the trade that excites me more than our OG situation, was our front 7 needed more than just Ogunjobi and Garrett putting pressure on QBs. Vernon provides this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domcucch1994 Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 Dumb trade.. Zeitler is a stout lineman, We could of picked up a LBer in FA... Hopefully Corbett or someone else can fill the void.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren15 Posted March 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 Brown's restructuring Vernon's deal making it more cap-friendly and front-loaded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjh2130 Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 6 hours ago, domcucch1994 said: Dumb trade.. Zeitler is a stout lineman, We could of picked up a LBer in FA... Hopefully Corbett or someone else can fill the void.. We could have picked a linebacker in FA but what about a DE which is majority of where vernon will line up here. And what kind of contract would a player of his stature take. Would said player take a 2 year deal so that he comes off the books when its time to resign Garrett like Vernon's contract will? We would still have Zeitler 12.5 mil contract and new players 11 million contract. I know everyone says well we have over 70 million to spend but over half of that is money that has been saved up from being under the cap and previous years which once that leftover cap is used it goes away. Really we have like 35 million to spend this year and 35 million saved up to help re-sign Baker and Garrett and Ward and Chubb potentially. I would bet that we don't use all the 35 million this year so that we can add some more to that total of leftover cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, bjh2130 said: We could have picked a linebacker in FA but what about a DE which is majority of where vernon will line up here. And what kind of contract would a player of his stature take. Would said player take a 2 year deal so that he comes off the books when its time to resign Garrett like Vernon's contract will? We would still have Zeitler 12.5 mil contract and new players 11 million contract. I know everyone says well we have over 70 million to spend but over half of that is money that has been saved up from being under the cap and previous years which once that leftover cap is used it goes away. Really we have like 35 million to spend this year and 35 million saved up to help re-sign Baker and Garrett and Ward and Chubb potentially. I would bet that we don't use all the 35 million this year so that we can add some more to that total of leftover cap. We still could pick a LB in FA....they are talking Barr and others. As far as cap issues, that is for Dorsey and the bean counters to work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 25 minutes ago, bjh2130 said: We could have picked a linebacker in FA but what about a DE which is majority of where vernon will line up here. And what kind of contract would a player of his stature take. Would said player take a 2 year deal so that he comes off the books when its time to resign Garrett like Vernon's contract will? We would still have Zeitler 12.5 mil contract and new players 11 million contract. I know everyone says well we have over 70 million to spend but over half of that is money that has been saved up from being under the cap and previous years which once that leftover cap is used it goes away. Really we have like 35 million to spend this year and 35 million saved up to help re-sign Baker and Garrett and Ward and Chubb potentially. I would bet that we don't use all the 35 million this year so that we can add some more to that total of leftover cap. & that exactly what Dorsey said. He's not thinking just this year. Down the road is going to take big money to keep your homegrown talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjh2130 Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Gipper said: We still could pick a LB in FA....they are talking Barr and others. As far as cap issues, that is for Dorsey and the bean counters to work out. I agree we could still pick up at linebacker as we released Collins. My point is is Vernon is going to be lining up at the end opposite of Garrett. That was a big need to address and to get a player of his stature at the opposite D end it would have taken longer than a two-year deal which is what Vernon is on and that will end right at the time that we need to re-sign Garrett. Giving us more freedom to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, bjh2130 said: I agree we could still pick up at linebacker as we released Collins. My point is is Vernon is going to be lining up at the end opposite of Garrett. That was a big need to address and to get a player of his stature at the opposite D end it would have taken longer than a two-year deal which is what Vernon is on and that will end right at the time that we need to re-sign Garrett. Giving us more freedom to do so. Like I said, fine, whatever. Let the money men work it out. As a fan, I hate thinking and talking about player's money....because the numbers are absurd to a point, and I hate having to have the makeup of the team dictated by money. I understand, That's Life; but I prefer my entertainment to be unencumbered by concerns over what the entertainer is making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjh2130 Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 hours ago, The Gipper said: Like I said, fine, whatever. Let the money men work it out. As a fan, I hate thinking and talking about player's money....because the numbers are absurd to a point, and I hate having to have the makeup of the team dictated by money. I understand, That's Life; but I prefer my entertainment to be unencumbered by concerns over what the entertainer is making. I understand that but it's one of the main reasons we didn't just keep Zeitler and "sign a lb (de) in FA". I mean if we don't look at the money aspect of things why don't we sign earl Thomas, mitch morse, Tyrell Williams, Ndamukong Suh, Ronald Darby, Za'darious Smith, and Justin Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, bjh2130 said: I understand that but it's one of the main reasons we didn't just keep Zeitler and "sign a lb (de) in FA". I mean if we don't look at the money aspect of things why don't we sign earl Thomas, mitch morse, Tyrell Williams, Ndamukong Suh, Ronald Darby, Za'darious Smith, and Justin Houston. We've got Baker on a rookie contract for three years, we,re going to bust that cap and hold on to our picks for when reload. I dont know if I would switch places with any franchise right now when you figure roster talent, cap room, draft picks, QB and GM ... only question is Kitchens and I'll think he'll be very good as well. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 As good as vernons tape looks,its still a weird trade. I would rather us have traded our draft to move up and take a top DE than mess with the o lines chem. But I understand the point that getting one of the top FA DE's like flowers was gonna be long term deal and would potentially screw with resigning Baker and Myles. This was exactly why I was in favor of going after a DE like ansah as well as picking up a guy like hunt that could play all over the line. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjh2130 Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Zombo said: We've got Baker on a rookie contract for three years, we,re going to bust that cap and hold on to our picks for when reload. I dont know if I would switch places with any franchise right now when you figure roster talent, cap room, draft picks, QB and GM ... only question is Kitchens and I'll think he'll be very good as well. Z By bust the cap you mean spend all our leftover money this year? I don't think we will if that's what you are getting at. If I am misinterpreting I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, bjh2130 said: By bust the cap you mean spend all our leftover money this year? I don't think we will if that's what you are getting at. If I am misinterpreting I apologize. Not all in one year. Ramping it up over the next three years. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Clevfan4life said: As good as vernons tape looks,its still a weird trade. I would rather us have traded our draft to move up and take a top DE than mess with the o lines chem. But I understand the point that getting one of the top FA DE's like flowers was gonna be long term deal and would potentially screw with resigning Baker and Myles. This was exactly why I was in favor of going after a DE like ansah as well as picking up a guy like hunt that could play all over the line. Oh well. Clevs, in a Waynes World gone frat party and talkin football kind of vibe - that "mess with the o-lines chem" bait got me just 1 hallucinogen shy of wanting to give up our entire draft to move up for a top DE. You put me in that Dana Carvey-level trance for a second; and I'm not gonna lie. It was terrifying. Does Faber College have a sports journalism program? If so, you should be directing that sucker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Flugel said: Does Faber College have a sports journalism program? The Dean Wormer School of Journalism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 15 hours ago, bjh2130 said: I understand that but it's one of the main reasons we didn't just keep Zeitler and "sign a lb (de) in FA". I mean if we don't look at the money aspect of things why don't we sign earl Thomas, mitch morse, Tyrell Williams, Ndamukong Suh, Ronald Darby, Za'darious Smith, and Justin Houston. You use the term "We" like you were part of the Browns ownership or front office. I personally am not spending any money on any of these guys. (I rarely go to games). All I am saying is that I understand the money aspect of it that the team has to be concerned about. I just hate that it has to be a subject of conversation on this sports forum. Hell, if we all want to talk money....maybe "we" can come up to a solution to the deficit problem. (See what I mean: money talk gets real boring real fast) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjh2130 Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 3 hours ago, The Gipper said: You use the term "We" like you were part of the Browns ownership or front office. I personally am not spending any money on any of these guys. (I rarely go to games). All I am saying is that I understand the money aspect of it that the team has to be concerned about. I just hate that it has to be a subject of conversation on this sports forum. Hell, if we all want to talk money....maybe "we" can come up to a solution to the deficit problem. (See what I mean: money talk gets real boring real fast) "If we have a better pass rush, that makes our DBs look better. If we have better run defense from the front 4, then the LBs will look better. " "We still could pick a LB in FA....they are talking Barr and others. " You use the term "we" like you were on the coaching staff or part of the front office. Don't be a dick. I'm pointing out if you want to truly grade a signing or a trade you have to look at the financial aspect of it as well. It helps to make sense of what is being done and why, I really wanted Mosley but if the browns would have paid him 18 million a year to outbid the Jets in order get him here i wouldn't think that was the greatest signing due to the financial aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, bjh2130 said: "If we have a better pass rush, that makes our DBs look better. If we have better run defense from the front 4, then the LBs will look better. " "We still could pick a LB in FA....they are talking Barr and others. " You use the term "we" like you were on the coaching staff or part of the front office. Don't be a dick. I'm pointing out if you want to truly grade a signing or a trade you have to look at the financial aspect of it as well. It helps to make sense of what is being done and why, I really wanted Mosley but if the browns would have paid him 18 million a year to outbid the Jets in order get him here i wouldn't think that was the greatest signing due to the financial aspect. I am not saying that the financial part isn't very important nor that you should not understand the financial implications of any deal. I said exactly that if you could read. Can you. I just said that I hated the fact that it has to be that way. That money apparently has to be the be all and end all of any sports discussion. Now, do you savvy Inglese? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 I’m not sure if it has been mentioned, but Vernon’s contract appears to be under re-construction.. it won’t be official until Wednesday at 4 p.m. “The choice will depend on how much cap room the Browns may need for what they are planning to accomplish during this free agent period.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/dawgpounddaily.com/2019/03/11/cleveland-browns-plan-restructure-olivier-vernons-contract/amp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Flugel said: Clevs, in a Waynes World gone frat party and talkin football kind of vibe - that "mess with the o-lines chem" bait got me just 1 hallucinogen shy of wanting to give up our entire draft to move up for a top DE. You put me in that Dana Carvey-level trance for a second; and I'm not gonna lie. It was terrifying. Does Faber College have a sports journalism program? If so, you should be directing that sucker... Didn't say I would have been necessarily happy had they done that, unless they got bosa ofc😁 just saying, now didn't feel like the right time to potentially destroy what we were building on the o line to protect baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said: Didn't say I would have been necessarily happy had they done that, unless they got bosa ofc😁 just saying, now didn't feel like the right time to potentially destroy what we were building on the o line to protect baker. That's one way to look at it. But we didn't have to overspend in FA to get Garrett an upgrade in pass rushing either. We as of now we have Vernon on a two year rent a player with all the guaranteed money off the books. Not something that would have happened going after those big ticket DL guys you were pining after. It all depends on how well Corbett plays at RG. He fills in nicely, and it will again prove Dorsey knows what he's doing. September is still a long way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, MLD Woody said: The horse still isn't dead yet? We aren't giving up two firsts for him. If Antonio Brown was worth a third and a fifth, we offer the Giants a second. Take it or leave it. Ravens could be in the market with Mosely and Suggs off the books. Steelers are cap strapped, and the Bengals have AJ Green. OBJ's contract isn't as hatefull as I originally thought, hence the Browns might be interested. $20 million, each of the next two years. Question is- does Dorsey want the drama? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/odell-beckham-jr-14421/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjh2130 Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, The Gipper said: I am not saying that the financial part isn't very important nor that you should not understand the financial implications of any deal. I said exactly that if you could read. Can you. I just said that I hated the fact that it has to be that way. That money apparently has to be the be all and end all of any sports discussion. Now, do you savvy Inglese? Actually you said you hate thinking and talking about a player's money and as far as money goes let the bean counters figure it out. I'm saying that as a fan it helps to understand the money aspect because it helps you evaluate trades signings and things of that nature. I don't get what you're big hang up is. Like going out of your way to say oh you say "we" like you're part of the front office when there are multiple times when you are discussing the Browns that you also say we. I know a lot of other fans don't do that. I know Ohio State fans get a lot of crap because they say we like they are apart of the team but fans are important to an organization. You know this very well as I believe you were one of the key people who helped bring the Browns organization back to Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, MLD Woody said: Maybe the Steelers are missing a Diva WR already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, bjh2130 said: Actually you said you hate thinking and talking about a player's money and as far as money goes let the bean counters figure it out. I'm saying that as a fan it helps to understand the money aspect because it helps you evaluate trades signings and things of that nature. I don't get what you're big hang up is. Like going out of your way to say oh you say "we" like you're part of the front office when there are multiple times when you are discussing the Browns that you also say we. I know a lot of other fans don't do that. I know Ohio State fans get a lot of crap because they say we like they are apart of the team but fans are important to an organization. You know this very well as I believe you were one of the key people who helped bring the Browns organization back to Cleveland. Again, I am not denying that knowing the money aspect would help understand why things are done the way they are done, nor that it is important. I am just saying that it is boring as shit to have to be so concerned about what these millionaires are making. What is your hangup about THAT? And all fan bases and all fans on occasion say "we". And yes, I do have a mouse in my pocket. Actually, it is a rat....a kangaroo sized rat!! And if you love dealing with the bean counting so much, here you go: (I had reproduced a huge article on audit accounting here...but I decided to ditch it and just leave what you have here: AR = IR x CR x DR Where: AR = Audit risk, IR = Inherent risk, CR = Control risk, and DR = Detection risk. (Whittington & Pany, 2004, p. 130) Related Services By the way, you can hire a firm that will do your accounting naked: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 18 hours ago, hoorta said: The horse still isn't dead yet? We aren't giving up two firsts for him. If Antonio Brown was worth a third and a fifth, we offer the Giants a second. Take it or leave it. Ravens could be in the market with Mosely and Suggs off the books. Steelers are cap strapped, and the Bengals have AJ Green. OBJ's contract isn't as hatefull as I originally thought, hence the Browns might be interested. $20 million, each of the next two years. Question is- does Dorsey want the drama? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/odell-beckham-jr-14421/ So much for NostraHoorta... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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