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Tour2ma

You know what's really going to suck???

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Just as we are on the verge of being very, very good if not great... the rest of the AFCN is swirling around the bowl.

  • Bengals look to have made a good HC hire in Zac Taylor, but they've fallen far and Andy ain't leading 'em back.
  • Raven's need a run threat so badly that they will end up getting Jackson killed and while good their D is not good enough to carry the team.
  • Then there's the Steelers... they can overcome a lot... never thought they'd replace Bell's production... if AB moves on, I think they'll replace him as well... but Ben is old, as in O-L-D and there's a big old hole in the middle of their D.

I was really looking forward to some hard fought Divisional games, but that possibility is looking very flushable...

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Ben still threw for 5000 yards and he hardly gets touched. I expect him to sign a 2-3 year extension and as long as the line stays together he will have the longevity he needs to see through the extension. I just hope brown isn't torepedoing his value. A first rounder would be fantastic and several reports believe that's a possibility. The rest of the north isn't just going to lay down. 

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Figured you'd say the work stoppage that's looming.

I don't remember anyone taking pity that we sucked. It's even worse when they know they have no chance. Let's see if their fandom can withstand that which browns fans endured.

Fuk em

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2 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Ben still threw for 5000 yards and her hardly gets touched. I expect him to sign a 2-3 year extension and as long as the line stays together he will have the longevity he needs to see through the extension. I just hope brown isn't torepedoing his value. A first rounder would be fantastic and several reports believe that's a possibility. The rest of the north isn't just going to lay down. 

Because he threw more times than any other QB in the league. Big fuking deal. Also almost led the league in INTs. Did for any non-rookie. I hope he signs another contract at this point. Only gonna get worse from here.

Maybe after a few more cheeseburgers he'll magically get better 

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57 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Just as we are on the verge of being very, very good if not great... the rest of the AFCN is swirling around the bowl.

  • Bengals look to have made a good HC hire in Zac Taylor, but they've fallen far and Andy ain't leading 'em back.
  • Raven's need a run threat so badly that they will end up getting Jackson killed and while good their D is not good enough to carry the team.
  • Then there's the Steelers... they can overcome a lot... never thought they'd replace Bell's production... if AB moves on, I think they'll replace him as well... but Ben is old, as in O-L-D and there's a big old hole in the middle of their D.

I was really looking forward to some hard fought Divisional games, but that possibility is looking very flushable...

History has proven that counting out Pitt and Baltimore is very, very stupid. How many times  over the last decade has Pittsburgh finally “come to the end” only to still have a .500+ record and win/almost win the division. 

Dont be ignorant, I think Baker is a franchise guy, but this team only has potential. If you have watched this current version of the Indians, you know it’s a very short window and it’ll close just as quick as it opened.

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3 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Ben still threw for 5000 yards and he hardly gets touched. I expect him to sign a 2-3 year extension and as long as the line stays together he will have the longevity he needs to see through the extension. I just hope brown isn't torpedoing his value. A first rounder would be fantastic and several reports believe that's a possibility. The rest of the north isn't just going to lay down. 

Damn dangerous assumption to make just because Brady and Brees are still playing at a high level on the high side of 40 doesn't mean that's the new norm for quarterbacks by a long shot. 

As to torpedoing his value- Brown already has... You might get a second for him- if you're lucky...  

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4 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Ben still threw for 5000 yards and he hardly gets touched. I expect him to sign a 2-3 year extension and as long as the line stays together he will have the longevity he needs to see through the extension. I just hope brown isn't torepedoing his value. A first rounder would be fantastic and several reports believe that's a possibility. The rest of the north isn't just going to lay down. 

Is Big Ben kind of in with Brady even Brees and other good oldie QBs in this era of you can't touch the QBs or even WRs so they can play on until they are 40ish?

In the good ol' days they got hammered so bad it was rare if they were good at 35.

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9 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Just as we are on the verge of being very, very good if not great... the rest of the AFCN is swirling around the bowl.

  • Bengals look to have made a good HC hire in Zac Taylor, but they've fallen far and Andy ain't leading 'em back.
  • Raven's need a run threat so badly that they will end up getting Jackson killed and while good their D is not good enough to carry the team.
  • Then there's the Steelers... they can overcome a lot... never thought they'd replace Bell's production... if AB moves on, I think they'll replace him as well... but Ben is old, as in O-L-D and there's a big old hole in the middle of their D.

I was really looking forward to some hard fought Divisional games, but that possibility is looking very flushable...

Let's not get ahead of ourselves

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couple local businesses here are offering gift certificates and discounts for people that want rid of their AB gear.  people burning shit...

 

the melting is glorious to behold. :lol:

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10 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Just as we are on the verge of being very, very good if not great... the rest of the AFCN is swirling around the bowl.

  • Bengals look to have made a good HC hire in Zac Taylor, but they've fallen far and Andy ain't leading 'em back.
  • Raven's need a run threat so badly that they will end up getting Jackson killed and while good their D is not good enough to carry the team.
  • Then there's the Steelers... they can overcome a lot... never thought they'd replace Bell's production... if AB moves on, I think they'll replace him as well... but Ben is old, as in O-L-D and there's a big old hole in the middle of their D.

I was really looking forward to some hard fought Divisional games, but that possibility is looking very flushable...

Don't write off the Steelers ... ever. They have the coach and the QB and they always make the D work. Everyone seems to be celebrating that they are losing their two prima donnas ... that actually scares me. They will be back to being old school disciplined Steelers again, addition by subtraction ... besides, Ben/Connors/JuJu ... they still have one of the best "triplets" in the league, don't they?

Bungles will be transitioning, but not without talent. They will win some games, but they will be our personal bitches as long as Baker says so.

Ravens? They are all in on a QB that IMO will struggle to become a big time passer. That running around shit only lasts so long, eventually you have to stand in the pocket with three 280lb dudes coming for you and throw a rifle in the hands of a receiver that has a 1 foot window on his coverage to make a big play in a big game. I know the other three QBs in the division can do that. Weddle was the heart of their defense and he may be gone, and they have some important free agents on that side of the ball. I'll give them a "we'll see" for next year ... but they don't scare me.

I think we are going to have the Browns and Steelers fighting for the division for the next few years ... and that sounds awesome.

Zombo

 

 

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11 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Ben still threw for 5000 yards and he hardly gets touched. I expect him to sign a 2-3 year extension and as long as the line stays together he will have the longevity he needs to see through the extension. I just hope brown isn't torepedoing his value. A first rounder would be fantastic and several reports believe that's a possibility. The rest of the north isn't just going to lay down. 

Matt Stafford constantly throws for eleventy billion yards and has nothing to show for it. To be very honest if I were a steeler fan that'd be a concerning stat line for me.

I'm not going to ever rule out the Squeelers, but even an unbiased fan can see this is the first time in a decade there were just cracks in the armor. Very head scratching losses in "make or break" part of the season. The two guys leaving actually isn't something I'm going to overreact to, but it's not like those guys were bums either.

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1 hour ago, choco said:

couple local businesses here are offering gift certificates and discounts for people that want rid of their AB gear.  people burning shit...

 

the melting is glorious to behold. :lol:

People burning shit are giant man babies. I'm done with Brown but I'm not gonna run out and burn gear. I admittedly only have a brown jersey for my four year old he's already outgrown but still. You "living in Pittsburgh" in your little corner doesn't mean you are at the pulse of the fan base. 

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31 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Matt Stafford constantly throws for eleventy billion yards and has nothing to show for it. To be very honest if I were a steeler fan that'd be a concerning stat line for me.

I'm not going to ever rule out the Squeelers, but even an unbiased fan can see this is the first time in a decade there were just cracks in the armor. Very head scratching losses in "make or break" part of the season. The two guys leaving actually isn't something I'm going to overreact to, but it's not like those guys were bums either.

Lol, the steelers have been losing to bad teams for over 20 years. Check our record against the Raiders and the Broncos for that matter. We also had two games 100% get effected by the refs. The chargers and the saints game and I say that knowing full well it happens to other teams too. The Steelers still shouldn't have lost to the Raiders or the Broncos.

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14 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Ben still threw for 5000 yards and he hardly gets touched. I expect him to sign a 2-3 year extension and as long as the line stays together he will have the longevity he needs to see through the extension. I just hope brown isn't torepedoing his value. A first rounder would be fantastic and several reports believe that's a possibility. The rest of the north isn't just going to lay down. 

You lost a major asset in Munchak....who was the architect of how well that OL played.  We shall see how good they are without him. And sure, BR should be OK for a couple of more years, as long as he is upright.   You should do cartwheels and handstands if you get a 1st rounder for AB.  (but yes, I do believe that he IS torpedoing his value).  REports are that he could be worth a first rounder....not that anyone expects that to happen.

But the fact is....Bell is gone, Brown will be gone, Munchak will be gone.  BR will be 37 in a couple of weeks:   Born: March 2, 1982 (age 36 years), Lima, OH.  Obviously we have seen guys be productive at that age and beyond....but we have also seen guys drop off precipitously at that age.  (Protection rules will help).

And, no...the rest of the north isn't going to lay down. Everyone says the Browns are coming on.  (obviously, we hope so), the Ravens won the division (even though the Browns could have beat them twice).

My expectation is that Cincy and Pitt may be fighting it out to see who stays out of the basement. ...but I suspect that the Squibs will still be alive as long as BR plays at a high level.   I mean, OK, Pitt is still the only team in the division with a proven HOF caliber QB.  Browns/Ravens have top prospects....for the future....so they have a lot to prove.  Bengals have mediocrity at that most crucial spot.

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3 hours ago, Zombo said:

Don't write off the Steelers ... ever. They have the coach and the QB and they always make the D work. Everyone seems to be celebrating that they are losing their two prima donnas ... that actually scares me. They will be back to being old school disciplined Steelers again, addition by subtraction ... besides, Ben/Connors/JuJu ... they still have one of the best "triplets" in the league, don't they?

No. I don't think so.  I think that if you looked at each and every other team in the league....at their QB, top RB, top WR....you would see that they are middle of the pack. 

Bungles will be transitioning, but not without talent. They will win some games, but they will be our personal bitches as long as Baker says so.

Ravens? They are all in on a QB that IMO will struggle to become a big time passer. That running around shit only lasts so long, eventually you have to stand in the pocket with three 280lb dudes coming for you and throw a rifle in the hands of a receiver that has a 1 foot window on his coverage to make a big play in a big game. I know the other three QBs in the division can do that. Weddle was the heart of their defense and he may be gone, and they have some important free agents on that side of the ball. I'll give them a "we'll see" for next year ... but they don't scare me.

I think we are going to have the Browns and Steelers fighting for the division for the next few years ... and that sounds awesome.

Zombo

I think it would still be a 3 team race.   Browns, Rats, Squibs.  

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

You lost a major asset in Munchak....who was the architect of how well that OL played.  We shall see how good they are without him. And sure, BR should be OK for a couple of more years, as long as he is upright.   You should do cartwheels and handstands if you get a 1st rounder for AB.  (but yes, I do believe that he IS torpedoing his value).  REports are that he could be worth a first rounder....not that anyone expects that to happen.

But the fact is....Bell is gone, Brown will be gone, Munchak will be gone.  BR will be 37 in a couple of weeks:   Born: March 2, 1982 (age 36 years), Lima, OH.  Obviously we have seen guys be productive at that age and beyond....but we have also seen guys drop off precipitously at that age.  (Protection rules will help).

And, no...the rest of the north isn't going to lay down. Everyone says the Browns are coming on.  (obviously, we hope so), the Ravens won the division (even though the Browns could have beat them twice).

My expectation is that Cincy and Pitt may be fighting it out to see who stays out of the basement. ...but I suspect that the Squibs will still be alive as long as BR plays at a high level.   I mean, OK, Pitt is still the only team in the division with a proven HOF caliber QB.  Browns/Ravens have top prospects....for the future....so they have a lot to prove.  Bengals have mediocrity at that most crucial spot.

Lamar Jackson aint so hot and you boys still lost with Mayfield under center. We didn't miss bell and his status is still up in the air. He's very likely going to get transition tagged. We will draft another receiver and Washington will be over the rookie jitters. Trading brown if that happens will provide additional draft capital.

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4 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

Lamar Jackson aint so hot

Remains to be seen, hopefully you are right.

and you boys still lost with Mayfield under center.

But we won a lot more than we had before he got here. And we expect to win a LOT more with him from here on out.

We didn't miss bell and his status is still up in the air. He's very likely going to get transition tagged.

Yes, you did miss him. Not having him can be considered a primary reason why the Steelers missed the playoffs. Conner played well....but nothing near as well as Bell played.  And while his personal status may still be up in the air....one aspect of that status is decided:  he ain't playing for the Steelers.

We will draft another receiver and Washington will be over the rookie jitters. Trading brown if that happens will provide additional draft capital.

Neither Washington, nor anyone else you draft will turn out to be as good as Brown.  I would be more than willing to make a wager on that.

 

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3 hours ago, Zombo said:

Don't write off the Steelers ... ever. They have the coach and the QB and they always make the D work. Everyone seems to be celebrating that they are losing their two prima donnas ... that actually scares me. They will be back to being old school disciplined Steelers again, addition by subtraction ... besides, Ben/Connors/JuJu ... they still have one of the best "triplets" in the league, don't they?

anyone know where Z is at?  

missing the mark a bit on this one, my friend.  im not so sure tomlin can put that "discipline" toothpaste back in the tube, and seems to be a major point most stool fans use as to why he should be fired.  this issue isn't something that just happened this year...these issues have been building for years, enabled by the coach and owners.  there have now been 3 star players try to force themselves off that team in 2 years.  somethings afoot, and getting rid of bell and brown isn't going to change the underlying issues in that organization.  yet to be seen if they are critical faults, a lot of finger pointing though...

certainly agree that we shouldn't be writing them off, any team with a good experienced QB is dangerous any given sunday.  connor, pretty good back, does everything well, but not exceptional at anything.  juju got shut down by the bungles JV team...hes a product of AB drawing double teams.  fine receiver yes, but not even close to one of the best.  

the strength of that team...the OL.  and munch just too a lateral move, as any stool fan will tell you, for "family reasons".  having no sense of history, they conveniently forget this though, from just last year...

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Bolt/Mike-Munchak-officially-announces-he-is-staying-with-Steelers-113851423/

family to stay...family to go...

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1 hour ago, choco said:

anyone know where Z is at?  

missing the mark a bit on this one, my friend.  im not so sure tomlin can put that "discipline" toothpaste back in the tube, and seems to be a major point most stool fans use as to why he should be fired.  this issue isn't something that just happened this year...these issues have been building for years, enabled by the coach and owners.  there have now been 3 star players try to force themselves off that team in 2 years.  somethings afoot, and getting rid of bell and brown isn't going to change the underlying issues in that organization.  yet to be seen if they are critical faults, a lot of finger pointing though...

certainly agree that we shouldn't be writing them off, any team with a good experienced QB is dangerous any given sunday.  connor, pretty good back, does everything well, but not exceptional at anything.  juju got shut down by the bungles JV team...hes a product of AB drawing double teams.  fine receiver yes, but not even close to one of the best.  

the strength of that team...the OL.  and munch just too a lateral move, as any stool fan will tell you, for "family reasons".  having no sense of history, they conveniently forget this though, from just last year...

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/Bolt/Mike-Munchak-officially-announces-he-is-staying-with-Steelers-113851423/

family to stay...family to go...

Who was the third player to "force themselves" off that team?   Brown, Bell...and who else?

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3 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Who was the third player to "force themselves" off that team?   Brown, Bell...and who else?

Ju ju would be my next choice

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Good convo...

For the record... and I know this was not abundantly clear in my OP, but...

  • I wasn't talking about 2019, but rather the next few years.
  • I was looking for battle of Titans, not mere equals... the kind of battling where the regular season winner's biggest playoff obstacle is a rematch in the playoffs that is either the rubber match or that hardest of tasks, beating a team three times in the same league year.

That said I agree with the comments on the Bengals rebuilding, but that takes time. Add that the talent they have hasn't gotten them anywhere since it has been around and that their shortcomings (OL and back 7) are quite short and they aren't in my time frame.

The Raven's? While still formidable their D is getting long in the tooth. Future HOFer Suggs is near the end and he will leave a massive leadership hole. Ditto Weddle who is 34. While they do have talent as well their future hangs upon Jackson's health... and he can't play in the manner that makes him valuable year after year.

And then there's the Steelers...

I am well aware of the dangers of underestimating them, thus my comment about them replacing AB after replacing Bell, but that success took them all the way to 9-6-1 in 2018. While that was vastly better than I thought they'd do, it's hardly the record of a dominant team. It's not all that long ago that they were a .500 team... back-to-back 8-8 records in 2012 and '13 missing the playoffs both years... just as they did last year. And in 2013 Bell and Brown emerged...

Both are gone now, and both may be replaced with little drop off, but again there's Ben... and the last time they lost their franchise QB it took them 21 years to lend on their next one. yes, they had good years in that stretch even going to the SB once, but they had a great D during a good chunk of those 21... and they have a hole in the middle of a very good D today.

 

Us? I'm optimistic... we still have things to learn as a team, but it's not hard to see we are on the proverbial verge. It's not a given as we have a rookie HC and lack depth in general so a key this yearinjury or three and we will be a 2019 afterthought. But we are going to be very competitive starting... strike that... we began being very competitive mid-2018 and I see that continuing.

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4 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Lol, the steelers have been losing to bad teams for over 20 years. Check our record against the Raiders and the Broncos for that matter. We also had two games 100% get effected by the refs. The chargers and the saints game and I say that knowing full well it happens to other teams too. The Steelers still shouldn't have lost to the Raiders or the Broncos.

Yeah, and I can say the Browns were a lousy kicker and two crappy ref calls (Raiders and Tampa) from being 11-5....  

1 hour ago, Vagitron said:

Lamar Jackson aint so hot and you boys still lost with Mayfield under center. We didn't miss bell and his status is still up in the air. He's very likely going to get transition tagged. We will draft another receiver and Washington will be over the rookie jitters. Trading brown if that happens will provide additional draft capital.

Transitioning Bell will get you nowhere, and you know it. (other than up the animosity level another notch)...   https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/11/13/18000364/steelers-leveon-bell-transition-tag-nfl-free-agency-2019   he doesn't want to be in Pittsburg, and with Connor, you're not going to match....  Adios...  

Sure, a case can be made with what Dallas gave to get Amari Cooper, you might get a first round pick for a 30 y\o WR headcase. But I wouldn't count on it...  With Ben, Ju-Ju, and Connor, there's still some offensive talent. 

Regarding the Ravens- unless Jackson learns he's not a running back, the Ravens defense is going to keep them in games. And unloading Flacco gives them cap room to resign some of their defensive players who are in line for big raises...   

Bengals are gonna be the Bengals...  We'll see if their return to the cellar was mainly due to being the most injured team in the league last year...  

 

 

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13 minutes ago, choco said:

No, he don't count....he was over the hill long before.   I am talking about a recent departure along the order of Bell/Brown.  To me, that major loss was OL coach Munchak....but is there another player in that category?   (lets not count the injured  Shazier...a major loss, but not a "force out")

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9 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Good convo...

Us? I'm optimistic... we still have things to learn as a team, but it's not hard to see we are on the proverbial verge. It's not a given as we have a rookie HC and lack depth in general so a key this yearinjury or three and we will be a 2019 afterthought. But we are going to be very competitive starting... strike that... we began being very competitive mid-2018 and I see that continuing.

If, and a big IF Dorsey can repeat this off season what he did in 2018, the rest of the AFC NOrth had better be worried...  

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22 minutes ago, choco said:

Guy is at the end of the line.. will be 41 in May....  

Not gonna be missed, outside of Pittsburgh. Almost single handedly responsible for the NFL instituting the helmet to helmet and leading with the helmet penalties...  

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11 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, and I can say the Browns were a lousy kicker and two crappy ref calls (Raiders and Tampa) from being 11-5....  

Transitioning Bell will get you nowhere, and you know it. (other than up the animosity level another notch)...   https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/11/13/18000364/steelers-leveon-bell-transition-tag-nfl-free-agency-2019   he doesn't want to be in Pittsburg, and with Connor, you're not going to match....  Adios...  

Sure, a case can be made with what Dallas gave to get Amari Cooper, you might get a first round pick for a 30 y\o WR headcase. But I wouldn't count on it...  With Ben, Ju-Ju, and Connor, there's still some offensive talent. 

Regarding the Ravens- unless Jackson learns he's not a running back, the Ravens defense is going to keep them in games. And unloading Flacco gives them cap room to resign some of their defensive players who are in line for big raises...   

Bengals are gonna be the Bengals...  We'll see if their return to the cellar was mainly due to being the most injured team in the league last year...  

 

 

The transition tag could net additional draft picks. The Steelers have the cap room to match. All I'm saying on that front is I've read they are discussing the transiton tag.

As far as brown is concerned he isn't Amari Cooper. He's arguably the best receiver in the league and a work out beast. He's always in tremendous shape and doesn't miss games as a direct result. He's on a cap friendly deal considering his production as well which is why he's saying he wants a new deal if he's moved. The team trading him will have prime time ab for at least another three seasons based on his work ethic alone. Further more the team doesn't have to trade his goofy ass at all.

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2 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

The transition tag could net additional draft picks. The Steelers have the cap room to match. All I'm saying on that front is I've read they are discussing the transiton tag.

As far as brown is concerned he isn't Amari Cooper. He's arguably the best receiver in the league and a work out beast. He's always in tremendous shape and doesn't miss games as a direct result. He's on a cap friendly deal considering his production as well which is why he's saying he wants a new deal if he's moved. The team trading him will have prime time ab for at least another three seasons based on his work ethic alone. Further more the team doesn't have to trade his goofy ass at all.

Yeah, a team is going to want Bell and his massive salary demand so much- they're going to give you a fourth round pick for him.. Maybe...  Should you transition him, the bidding is going to start with salary, and no draft picks... 

And if Brown pulls a Bell on you and sits out? Like he did the last game of the season? :D 

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54 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Yeah, a team is going to want Bell and his massive salary demand so much- they're going to give you a fourth round pick for him.. Maybe...  Should you transition him, the bidding is going to start with salary, and no draft picks... 

And if Brown pulls a Bell on you and sits out? Like he did the last game of the season? :D 

The transition tag gives the steelers leverage and the ability to potentially trade bell. If it jets a 4th it's still a 4th they didn't have before. 

Brown is under contract for two or three more seasons. The situation is completely different than bell.

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5 hours ago, Vagitron said:

Lol, the steelers have been losing to bad teams for over 20 years. Check our record against the Raiders and the Broncos for that matter. We also had two games 100% get effected by the refs. The chargers and the saints game and I say that knowing full well it happens to other teams too. The Steelers still shouldn't have lost to the Raiders or the Broncos.

As I clearly noted, it's not about losing to a bad team it's about the "when" the losing occurred. The Steelers were rolling and lost to bottom barrel teams, with the Oakland game being a pretty significant "must win". That's just not something the Steelers have done in their current run of success-they always get those types of games. On top of that barely eeking out a week 17 win against a depleted bungler team in a true "win or we're out" showed cracks not shown before.

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