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The Gipper

Haskins Declares

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2 hours ago, hoorta said:

For sure Nickers meant Haskins, and I'm not so sure he's going to flop. I see lots of positive NFL traits in him, and if we didn't have Baker, I'd be very interested.

What you are saying is that there is absolutely no basis for Nicker's position that Haskins would flop, except, perhaps, hate?

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5 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Who? Rosen....or Haskins?  Or someone else?

Haskins... I think he'll be pedestrian in the NFL at best... I can't think of anyone that Urban mentored that made any NFL Impact.....

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13 minutes ago, nickers said:

Haskins... I think he'll be pedestrian in the NFL at best... I can't think of anyone that Urban mentored that made any NFL Impact.....

Just fucking with Gipper or are you being serious?

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21 minutes ago, nickers said:

Haskins... I think he'll be pedestrian in the NFL at best... I can't think of anyone that Urban mentored that made any NFL Impact.....

Urban was the one who made Tebow look like a first rounder..

Edit: who cares who mentored Haskins, he can throw a football with a high level of accuracy. 

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9 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Just fucking with Gipper or are you being serious?

I just see moments of lapses with him that I think  will be costly.... Time will tell...

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10 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Urban was the one who made Tebow look like a first rounder..

Edit: who cares who mentored Haskins, he can throw a football with a high level of accuracy. 

Potentially merchandizing revenue made Tebow look like a first rounder...

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40 minutes ago, nickers said:

Haskins... I think he'll be pedestrian in the NFL at best... I can't think of anyone that Urban mentored that made any NFL Impact.....

Well....take any major college football coach...and ask the same question:    Saban ....not a single decent NFL QB.  etc. etc.

The fact is.....only maybe 10 QBs come along each decade that make a major impact, and often from nondescript college programs/coaches. 

Do you think that Lloyd Carr was a fabulous developer of NFL QBs just because he had Tom Brady (who he only played half the time...preferring Champ Henson).   Where were all the others?   Do you think Phil Fulmer was a great developer of NFL QBs because he had  Peyton play for him? 

I mean...who the fuck was Drew Brees's HC in college?   Or Ben Rs?  Did they produce a string of good NFL QBs?  

Name ANY college coach who had a series of good NFL QBs.     I mean....I can only think of like Howard Schnellenberger who had Kelly, Bernie and Vinny.

It is the QB that makes them a top NFL coach....not the college coach.

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38 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Well....take any major college football coach...and ask the same question:    Saban ....not a single decent NFL QB.  etc. etc.

The fact is.....only maybe 10 QBs come along each decade that make a major impact, and often from nondescript college programs/coaches. 

Do you think that Lloyd Carr was a fabulous developer of NFL QBs just because he had Tom Brady (who he only played half the time...preferring Champ Henson).   Where were all the others?   Do you think Phil Fulmer was a great developer of NFL QBs because he had  Peyton play for him? 

I mean...who the fuck was Drew Brees's HC in college?   Or Ben Rs?  Did they produce a string of good NFL QBs?  

Name ANY college coach who had a series of good NFL QBs.     I mean....I can only think of like Howard Schnellenberger who had Kelly, Bernie and Vinny.

It is the QB that makes them a top NFL coach....not the college coach.

Sure, but the coach and the system's ability or desire to produce NFL QBs is important to look at. 

Carr doesn't get the title of QB Whisperer because he coached Brady. But he did have multiple QBs come out of his program that played in the NFL. 

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On 1/8/2019 at 7:41 AM, MLD Woody said:

Not necessarily

But I see where this is going and I'm good

He did benefit from Herbert staying as he will definitely be the first qb taken, but it is still very likely he would have been picked in the top 10 regardless of Herbert coming out. I see the giants jags and Broncos potentially taking qbs. I'm seeing haskins lock and Jones go top 10. If Herbert were coming out it would be 3 out of Herbert Haskins Lock and Jones getting drafted top 10 and Herbert & Haskins would be two of them for sure.

Haskins would greatly benefit going to the Giants if Eli is still there so he could sit for a year to refine his skills.

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6 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

Sure, but the coach and the system's ability or desire to produce NFL QBs is important to look at. 

Carr doesn't get the title of QB Whisperer because he coached Brady. But he did have multiple QBs come out of his program that played in the NFL. 

Well the fact is Ohio State and Meyer always recruited the kinds of quarterbacks that we’re good for the college game and not necessarily for the pro game. You know black Tarkenton’s. white Tarkentons. whatever. more less running quarterbacks not prostyle quarterback’s. Except for art Sleister I don’t know of any supposedly pro style quarterback Ohio State has really had in the last 30 years. Maybe Mike Tomczak. 

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5 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Well the fact is Ohio State and Meyer always recruited the kinds of quarterbacks that we’re good for the college game and not necessarily for the pro game. You know black Tarkenton’s. white Tarkentons. whatever. more less running quarterbacks not prostyle quarterback’s. Except for art Sleister I don’t know of any supposedly pro style quarterback Ohio State has really had in the last 30 years. Maybe Mike Tomczak. 

I'd say Alex Smith whom he had at Utah, turned into a pretty decent pro QB. He only left KC because the magic man Mahomes appeared on the scene, another great runner/thrower from a non-prostyle college program, Texas Tech.

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I'd say Alex Smith whom he had at Utah, turned into a pretty decent pro QB. He only left KC because the magic man Mahomes appeared on the scene, another great runner/thrower from a non-prostyle college program, Texas Tech.

OK sure he had a guy. But the question was name a coach who in college produced multiple top shelf in the NFL quarterbacks. Can you think of anyone besides Howard Schnellenberger

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

OK sure he had a guy. But the question was name a coach who in college produced multiple top shelf in the NFL quarterbacks. Can you think of anyone besides Howard Schnellenberger

Westlake High School, Austin, Tx.?😂

Grads of WL and Superbowl winners Brees and Foles square off this weekend.🧐

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Westlake High School, Austin, Tx.?😂

Grads of WL and Superbowl winners Brees and Foles square off this weekend.🧐

OK....cool.   I did not know that.

Did they have the same coach there?

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36 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

OK....cool.   I did not know that.

Did they have the same coach there?

Ron Schroeder was Brees' coach and Derek Long was Nick Foles'.

And Sam Ehlinger from WL High is the current Longhorns QB that just beat Georgia in the Sugarbowl.

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12 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Well the fact is Ohio State and Meyer always recruited the kinds of quarterbacks that we’re good for the college game and not necessarily for the pro game. You know black Tarkenton’s. white Tarkentons. whatever. more less running quarterbacks not prostyle quarterback’s. Except for art Sleister I don’t know of any supposedly pro style quarterback Ohio State has really had in the last 30 years. Maybe Mike Tomczak. 

Joe Germaine, Bobby Hoying, you can argue Krenzel was a pro style quarterback. He wasn't a pro level QB but certainly an argument can be made he was pro style. Troy Smith started out as dual threat but turned into a pro style qb. I would classify zwick and boeckman as pro style qbs also. Maybe herbstreit but I could see him a running dual threat QB.

If your argument is pro level qbs then only two of those guys would count in my mind but if it is pro style all those guys were pro style pass first take some snaps under center play action guys.

Edited by bjh2130
Adding Cardale

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11 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

Joe Germaine, Bobby Hoying, you can argue Krenzel was a pro style quarterback. He wasn't a pro level QB but certainly an argument can be made he was pro style. Troy Smith started out as dual threat but turned into a pro style qb. I would classify zwick and boeckman as pro style qbs also. Maybe herbstreit but I could see him a running dual threat QB.

If your argument is pro level qbs then only two of those guys would count in my mind but if it is pro style all those guys were pro style pass first take some snaps under center play action guys.

Except for Cardale Jones none of those guys you mentioned actually paid for urban Meyer did they 

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31 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Except for Cardale Jones none of those guys you mentioned actually paid for urban Meyer did they 

That is correct but you said they haven't had a pro-style quarterback other than schlister in the past 30 years

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On 1/12/2019 at 7:11 AM, The Gipper said:

OK sure he had a guy. But the question was name a coach who in college produced multiple top shelf in the NFL quarterbacks. Can you think of anyone besides Howard Schnellenberger

Although only Palmer ended up being really "successful"... Pete Carroll had a pretty good string of "pro ready " QB's at USC

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8 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

That is correct but you said they haven't had a pro-style quarterback other than schlister in the past 30 years

Well let’s just say they haven’t had any decent pro quarterbacks and that really include Schliester

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1 hour ago, BrownB499 said:

Although only Palmer ended up being really "successful"... Pete Carroll had a pretty good string of "pro ready " QB's at USC

That’s not the question the question is who actually had a series of successful pro quarterbacks. Carol may have had Palmer but he also have Linert and a few other busts. 

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On 1/10/2019 at 9:22 PM, hoorta said:

And I know you like Rosen....  But Haskins is going to have the same questions raised about him that we saw with Trubisky, and we know how that turned out.

I'll bite...

How did that turn out? That he's at least as good as Trent Dilfer?

On 1/11/2019 at 4:00 PM, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Edit: who cares who mentored Haskins, he can throw a football with a high level of accuracy. 

To his first read... yes...

And the  kid does go thru progressions... but does he read Defenses?

Then there's his pocket presence... which is low. Then comes his inability to run and his fall off when under duress.

He's a prospect to be sure, but I can only repeat what I said initially, spending a high first on him is dubious...

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1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

I'll bite...

How did that turn out? That he's at least as good as Trent Dilfer?

To his first read... yes...

And the  kid does go thru progressions... but does he read Defenses?

Then there's his pocket presence... which is low. Then comes his inability to run and his fall off when under duress.

He's a prospect to be sure, but I can only repeat what I said initially, spending a high first on him is dubious...

I was just gonna stay out of this one. But if you want to realistically talk about Haskins, I'll watch from afar.

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2 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

To his first read... yes...

And the  kid does go thru progressions... but does he read Defenses?

He's a prospect to be sure, but I can only repeat what I said initially, spending a high first on him is dubious...

It’s how he plays the game. He is purely a 1st based off potential. If he goes to he right place where they use him to his strengths, he should do just fine.

and when it comes to pocket presence, Mayfield had ALL DAY with a clean pocket to throw in college, which made it tough to tell how he would fare in the NFL. 

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Being realistic about Haskins, keep in mind I love the kid and feel he should have won the Heisman... 

He's good stepping up into the pocket while maintaining downfield but his lateral movement evading pressure is just not good.    There's also times when he puts too much on his throws,  especially when going to a secondary read or outlet receiver.  His downfield ball is outstanding and when he has time,  gets both his feet and shoulders right - as accurate and pretty a throw as any QB to come out In a while.   But throwing off script or while on the movement isn't his strength.  

As far as the mental side?  A good command of his offense, shows signs of understanding what is in front -progressions and anticipation that comes with it it.   However that is mostly on his intitial read.   Right now Haskins needs to sit and work on his pocket movement becoming second nature while mastering his pacing of throws when his primary isn't available. He has been baited into a couple throws that weren't good/forced from trying to make too many plays. 

 

He'll more than likely be a high pick,  kid has the talent,  likability and work ethic.   But he isnt a finished product by any means.   He needs some time with a great QB coach,  but he is more then capable of one day being an NFL QB depending on where he lands and what is asked of him. 

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4 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I was just gonna stay out of this one. But if you want to realistically talk about Haskins, I'll watch from afar.

If you were going to stay out of it you would not have typed a fucking thing on this board about it. 

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6 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I'll bite...

How did that turn out? That he's at least as good as Trent Dilfer?

To his first read... yes...

And the  kid does go thru progressions... but does he read Defenses?

Then there's his pocket presence... which is low. Then comes his inability to run and his fall off when under duress.

He's a prospect to be sure, but I can only repeat what I said initially, spending a high first on him is dubious...

Smarter more experienced people than you have said that he is potentially the number one overall pick. 

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5 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

If you were going to stay out of it you would not have typed a fucking thing on this board about it. 

Geez, calm down

Read what others are posting then

 

Not perfect. Not a finished product. Has flaws (gasp!). Benefited from the athletes around him.

Has a great arm. Has a ton of potential. Has no personality red flags. 

Is being driven up the board because of a very weak QB class. Will still go very high. Should probably sit a year. 

 

There 

You don't always have to pounce on people if they're not calling an OSU player the #1 pick...

 

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3 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Geez, calm down

Read what others are posting then

 

Not perfect. Not a finished product. Has flaws (gasp!). Benefited from the athletes around him.

Has a great arm. Has a ton of potential. Has no personality red flags. 

Is being driven up the board because of a very weak QB class. Will still go very high. Should probably sit a year. 

 

There 

You don't always have to pounce on people if they're not calling an OSU player the #1 pick...

 

I don’t care if you comment on an Ohio State player. But if you were going to say that you’re not going to comment on Ohio State player and then comment on him then that makes you a liar.  And I note that a lot of people said Baker Mayfield should sit for a year as well. I don’t think in the future that anyone should claim that a first round quarterback should ever sit for a year because it is proven that they don’t need to and it is showing that they Don’t have to

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