IMO Our def scheme sucks...

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

1 minute ago, hoorta said:

Look Cleve fan can bitch about our defense, but let's get real what the Ravens were doing in the run game of late. In the last seven games they topped 200 yards rushing in five of them, and the LOW was 159.  It's wasn't just the Browns they were tearing up running the ball- it was everybody. 

Only an elite defense stacked with talent and experience is stopping that run game. It’s basixally unstoppable when Lamar is accurate as a passer, too

[ATOM]

1 minute ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Only an elite defense stacked with talent and experience is stopping that run game. It’s basixally unstoppable when Lamar is accurate as a passer, too

he is not that accurate he only completed 13 pass attempts out of 29 most of which as i remember were  dump off's to his tight end which got him yac yards 

can't wait for the chargers to get a lead on that sorry piece of garbage and we will see how good of a qb he really is when he has to use his fricken arm to lead his team back

[tiamat63]

I find it funny there hasn't been mention of the Ravens being so good running the ball, at the potential expense of their 1st round QB.

No fucking shit, when you create a +1 situation using your QB as a runner with frequency you're going to generate more yards and positive plays.   The key is time.  Lamar cannot and will not hold up with repeated carries and shots the way he has and it will only be worse in the playoffs.   Especially magnified given his build.   Vick, RG3, Tebow and now even Cam.    Newton is 6'5 260lbs.  The dude is a tank - but it finally caught up with him.       Lamar is NO where near the passer than RG3 and Cam were/are.   Honestly I really wouldn't consider him better than Tebow. And Vick was at least familiar with fundamental stuff including a lot of work under center.   So unless you see a 'light goes on' moment in the same mold that happened with Mahomes (keep in mind how often THAT actually happens) then yes, the Ravens run game thrashed us.    But the long term expense might be worth it.     Let them run Jackson 15 times a game.   I hope to Christ they make it to the Super Bowl and lose just so he takes repeated shots.    Because it takes a toll on everything - your mind, your body, your passing ability... all of it. 

[Bob806]

4 minutes ago, ATOM said:

he is not that accurate he only completed 13 pass attempts out of 29 most of which as i remember were  dump off's to his tight end which got him yac yards 

can't wait for the chargers to get a lead on that sorry piece of garbage and we will see how good of a qb he really is when he has to use his fricken arm to lead his team back

The guy is a waterbug, extremely difficult to catch. 

I'm pissed the Browns lost, but they gave it everything they had. Down 20-7, against that D, it was a great effort.

As far as our scheme on D....Williams is/always will be a blitzer. It's high-risk, high reward. Plus,we really aren't speedy at the LB position (yet).

[Clevfan4life]

5 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Only an elite defense stacked with talent and experience is stopping that run game. It’s basixally unstoppable when Lamar is accurate as a passer, too

What makes that run game go is the gaps the interior lineman open up. Ofc lamar is still gonna get yds beating everyone to the edge, but if u plug those interior holes u "control" that run game...not completely stop it. Dont listen to these plethora of goofballs thst populate this board, go back and watch the game and see how easily those lineman got to our 2nd level.

Its not all on our players either, frankly i think the defensive play calling for 3.5 quarters was atrocious.

[ATOM]

1 minute ago, Clevfan4life said:

What makes that run game go is the gaps the interior lineman open up. Ofc lamar is still gonna get yds beating everyone to the edge, but if u plug those interior holes u "control" that run game...not completely stop it. Dont listen to these plethora of goofballs thst populate this board, go back and watch the game and see how easily those lineman got to our 2nd level.

Its not all on our players either, frankly i think the defensive play calling for 3.5 quarters was atrocious.

3,5 is right atleast that was when i noticed are D line shifting from side to side to get them a punting situation 

[tiamat63]

6 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

What makes that run game go is the gaps the interior lineman open up. Ofc lamar is still gonna get yds beating everyone to the edge, but if u plug those interior holes u "control" that run game...not completely stop it. Dont listen to these plethora of goofballs thst populate this board, go back and watch the game and see how easily those lineman got to our 2nd level.

Its not all on our players either, frankly i think the defensive play calling for 3.5 quarters was atrocious.

Generally when you leave an unblocked defender you'll see a lineman immediately at the second level.

No? Not really something you considered?

[Clevfan4life]

9 minutes ago, ATOM said:

3,5 is right atleast that was when i noticed are D line shifting from side to side to get them a punting situation 

So at least one person noticed what happened when our front 4 all put their hands down and lined up helmet to helmet like the great skywizard intended. Not like romo didnt "immediately" point the shift or anything....

[Clevfan4life]

8 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Generally when you leave an unblocked defender you'll see a lineman immediately at the second level.

No? Not really something you considered?

I dont know why u keep quoting me and then writing some words with a question mark after them....its weird.

[ATOM]

5 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

So at least one person noticed what happened when our front 4 all put their hands down and lined up helmet to helmet like the great skywizard intended. Not like romo didnt "immediately" point the shift or anything....

i was still so damn hungover and me yelling at the t,v didnt help much romo was there ? I thought he retired 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

I think by next year they’ll be able to stop that run game better than what we saw yesterday.. 

Matt Millers first mock has us taking a corner..Deandre Baker from Georgia..

[Clevfan4life]

5 minutes ago, ATOM said:

i was still so damn hungover and me yelling at the t,v didnt help much romo was there ? I thought he retired 

Romo was one of the announcers dude.....wow u really were hungover lmfao. Yeah the guy that sounded lije he kbew what the fuk was going on down ob that field....that was romo

[ATOM]

Just now, Clevfan4life said:

Romo was one of the announcers dude.....wow u really were hungover lmfao. Yeah the guy that sounded lije he kbew what the fuk was going on down ob that field....that was romo

ah fuck romo yup saturday night into sunday morning was for us are friends coming over that had family plans before  I out did my self ofcourse  anyway it still makes you wonder why the ajustment took so long

[Clevfan4life]

Just now, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I think by next year they’ll be able to stop that run game better than what we saw yesterday.. 

Matt Millers first mock has us taking a corner..Deandre Baker from Georgia..

Jobi needs a big brother in there with him. U see they have raekwon davis still on the board when we pick? So mot sure about taking another corner in the 1dt again. That DL needs help. I know i wanted tp trade down but if davis is there,  fuck that. I know he's a DT/DE but at 6'7 well over 300lbs and reportedly would "right now" be among the strongest dudes in the NFL.....u take that. He can play all over the line

[The Gipper]

6 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Romo was one of the announcers dude.....wow u really were hungover lmfao. Yeah the guy that sounded lije he kbew what the fuk was going on down ob that field....that was romo

I just really do not think that Romo is very good.  I know a lot of people disagree....but so what.  I also think that Witten is pretty uninspiring. Joe Thomas would have been 100 times better.    I don't know why these networks thought that washed up Cowboy players made good announcers.

[Clevfan4life]

2 minutes ago, ATOM said:

ah fuck romo yup saturday night into sunday morning was for us are friends coming over that had family plans before  I out did my self ofcourse  anyway it still makes you wonder why the ajustment took so long

I think they expected baker to score more points so they were in containment mode. Maybe williams didnt want to get his DL dinged up on the last meaningless game if the season.

I know ive brought it up before, but watching our 270lb edge rushing freak stand up a drive block by blt's LT and LG......i mean srsly? Id give myles the side of a building showing him holding off those two.......fuck that egyptian statue lookin mother fucker where lebron used to be

[Clevfan4life]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I just really do not think that Romo is very good.  I know a lot of people disagree....but so what.  I also think that Witten is pretty uninspiring. Joe Thomas would have been 100 times better.    I don't know why these networks thought that washed up Cowboy players made good announcers.

Oh i agree on whitten, he's terrible. But i do like tony. 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

8 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Jobi needs a big brother in there with him. U see they have raekwon davis still on the board when we pick? So mot sure about taking another corner in the 1dt again. That DL needs help. 

Yea they have him going at 19 to Tennessee 

“That seems to point to a best-player-available approach, which is why defensive lineman Raekwon Davis fits the bill in Round 1.

Davis, a 6'7" and 306-pound defensive end in the Alabama base 3-4 defense, fits both a three- and four-man front thanks to his size and his athleticism. Davis is also a finished product coming out of the Alabama defense, and that's something both Vrabel and Robinson seemed to value in their first draft together.

With no wide receiver worth drafting here and the team trying to build up a fierce defense, Davis is a great addition. “ https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2812782-2019-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-regular-season-predictions?share=other#slide19

Interesting: Dwayne Haskins as number 1 QB to Giants at 6...

[Unsympathetic]

I still think they should try to trade Collins - preferably by fleecing Mayock - to get more round 1/2 help for the D.  But it should be clear our need is front7 and perhaps a 2nd-round CB as well.

[Tacosman]

22 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Ive been questioning our scheme, or lack thereof...for weeks now. And Blt exploited the fuk out of personnel alignments ive been skeptical about now for awhile. Now i know some guys gere were like relax, its a hybrid defense williams is being crafty etc,etc.

Well today, Blt lined up and put their dicks right in the front 7's ear. It took till late in the 4th quarter for Williams to essentially 2 gap the whole front 4 by lining them up heads up. Then finally some of those gaping pornstar holes were being plugged "somewhat" and our LB'ers were free to flow around the edges to cover the outside runs. Till then there were Blt OL routinely at the 2nd level swallowing up our LB'ers. And also routinely drive blocking our interior lineman 5 yds back. 

Anyway, what i saw today was a defense thats been unsettled for weeks face an offense that was willing to play old school come get some football and our defensive front 4 was being gimmicky schemed almost like we were playing some top level qb we needed to keep from throwing instead of a college type running game we needed to plug all the gaps on. I couldnt count how many times myles was standing today. When we only had 2 other DL at the line. The gaping holes we left this offense we knew were gonna come like they did.....it just defies sense. I dont understand, williams is supposed to be better than this. I understand doing some weird things with ur edge freak myles who's an elite athlete, but standing up the rotational DL depth like zettel....again, its ridiculous. Guys were just getting blown off the line.

We were better last year. We had an identity on the defense. We were stout against the run but weak on the pass.....we could have worked on that. 

are you Retarded?

Let me clue you on in something-  in today's nfl, stopping the pass is about 10x as important as stopping the run.  

We need to get even better in stopping modern passing games.  We have 1 good secondary player or with the potential to be good(ward) and one ok one(randall).  We need to upgrade the other 2.  We also need to upgrade a linebacker spot by bringing in someone in the mold of a bobby wagner(obviously not someone as great as him) who has the potential to be dominant in thepass game like him.  

Adding lbers or defensive tackles(who cant rush the passer effectively like a gilbert brown type) in the nfl is about the dumbest thing you can do in 2019

 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

13 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

are you Retarded?

 We have 1 good secondary player or with the potential to be good(ward) and one ok one(randall).  We need to upgrade the other 2.  We also need to upgrade a linebacker spot by bringing in someone in the mold of a bobby wagner(obviously not someone as great as him) who has the potential to be dominant in thepass game like him.  

Adding lbers or defensive tackles(who cant rush the passer effectively like a gilbert brown type) in the nfl is about the dumbest thing you can do in 2019

 

You are some kind of special for not thinking Peppers has the ability to be really good. 

[Tacosman]

1 minute ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

You are some kind of special for not thinking Peppers has the ability to be really good. 

you're talking about jabril peppers?  He's not even a full time player....no he's not going to be 'really good'.  He's not a key piece of the defense going forward(like a ward or garrett).  

[Clevfan4life]

32 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

are you Retarded?

Let me clue you on in something-  in today's nfl, stopping the pass is about 10x as important as stopping the run.  

We need to get even better in stopping modern passing games.  We have 1 good secondary player or with the potential to be good(ward) and one ok one(randall).  We need to upgrade the other 2.  We also need to upgrade a linebacker spot by bringing in someone in the mold of a bobby wagner(obviously not someone as great as him) who has the potential to be dominant in thepass game like him.  

Adding lbers or defensive tackles(who cant rush the passer effectively like a gilbert brown type) in the nfl is about the dumbest thing you can do in 2019

 

Guess what's gonna happen next year if we change nothing smart guy....teams are gonna keep Baker off the field by running right up our asses. We add a competent LDE, like Ansah, who can get to the QB....but solidy that interior by giving Jobi someone to help with the heavy lifting...we don't have to be "historically" good at stopping the run, but we'll stop it enough that teams can't use it to control us. YOU are Retarded if you think you can play competent defense in the NFL giving up the amt of yds we did Sunday. We are almost dead last in rush defense, lower echelon in pass defense, and overall only two teams worse defensively than us. One of those teams is the Chiefs. Guess what these playoff teams are gonna do to try to keep Mahommes off the field? 

Again im not saying we need to be top 5 rushing defense, but pls spare me you don't have to stop the run in the NFL....here's the top 10 rush defenses in the NFL this year...

Chicago Bears	16	339	1280	3.78	5	67	80.0
New Orleans Saints	16	356	1283	3.60	12	72	80.2
Houston Texans	16	385	1323	3.44	8	76	82.7
Baltimore Ravens	16	354	1327	3.75	11	82	82.9
Dallas Cowboys	16	400	1513	3.78	12	89	94.6
Pittsburgh Steelers	16	369	1538	4.17	13	84	96.1
Philadelphia Eagles	16	332	1551	4.67	14	71	96.9
Indianapolis Colts	16	415	1626	3.92	12	87	101.6
Los Angeles Chargers	16	395	1693	4.29	11	101	105.8
Detroit Lions

 

notice a trend here? with the exception I think of the Lions and the Steelers...aren't all these teams seasons still going? And those two just barely missed the playoffs.  You're looking at the upper echelon of the NFL...and they all stop the run. Anything else you need clarified?

[Clevfan4life]

Baltimore RavensBaltimore
Buffalo BillsBuffalo	1
Chicago BearsChicago	16	283	17.7	1280	80.0	3515	219.7	4795	299.7
Minnesota VikingsMinnesota	16	341	21.3	1815	113.4	3140	196.2	4955	309.7
Jacksonville JaguarsJacksonville	16	316	19.8	1870	116.9	3113	194.6	4983	311.4
Pittsburgh SteelersPittsburgh	16	360	22.5	1538	96.1	3697	231.1	5235	327.2
Dallas CowboysDallas	16	324	20.2	1513	94.6	3755	234.7	5268	329.2
Tennessee TitansTennessee	16	303	18.9	1863	116.4	3471	216.9	5334	333.4
Los Angeles ChargersLA Chargers	16	329	20.6	1693	105.8	3646	227.9	5339	333.7
Detroit LionsDetroit	16	360	22.5	1761	110.1	3599	224.9	5360	335.0
Indianapolis ColtsIndianapolis	16	344	21.5	1626	101.6	3805	237.8	5431	339.4
Houston TexansHouston	16	316	19.8	1323	82.7	4167	260.4	5490	343.1
San Francisco 49ersSan Francisco	16	435	27.2	1814	113.4	3732	233.2	5546	346.6
New Orleans SaintsNew Orleans	16	353	22.1	1283	80.2	4302	268.9	5585	349.1
Carolina PanthersCarolina	16	382	23.9	1804	112.8	3847	240.4	5651	353.2
Seattle SeahawksSeattle	16	347	21.7	1811	113.2	3842	240.1	5653	353.3
Washington RedskinsWashington	16	359	22.4	1860	116.2	3794	237.1	5654	353.4
Green Bay PackersGreen Bay	16	400	25.0	1918	119.9	3752	234.5	5670	354.4
Los Angeles RamsLA Rams	16	384	24.0	1957	122.3	3780	236.2	5737	358.6
Arizona CardinalsArizona	16	425	26.6	2479	154.9	3262	203.9	5741	358.8
New England PatriotsNew England	16	325	20.3	1803	112.7	3943	246.4	5746	359.1
Denver BroncosDenver	16	349	21.8	1913	119.6	3929	245.6	5842	365.1
Philadelphia EaglesPhiladelphia	16	348	21.8	1551	96.9	4308	269.2	5859	366.2
New York GiantsNY Giants	16	412	25.8	1898	118.6	4044	252.8	5942	371.4
New York JetsNY Jets	16	441	27.6	2021	126.3	4065	254.1	6086	380.4
Oakland RaidersOakland	16	467	29.2	2249	140.6	3853	240.8	6102	381.4
Tampa Bay BuccaneersTampa Bay	16	464	29.0	1983	123.9	4151	259.4	6134	383.4
Atlanta FalconsAtlanta
Miami DolphinsMiami	1
Cleveland BrownsCleveland	1
Kansas City ChiefsKansas City
Cincinnati Bengals     bad copy and paste job but there you go, and this is why I think Williams might be gone. Our defense has regressed and without Baker this year...I would have been playing ice shuffleboard on sundays months ago. No way I would have watched that shitfest. And without Baker keeping the defense fresh, we would have had an entire season of 3 and outs...we'd have multiple players on IR by now. Despite how this season has gone, defensivlely it's not been good. They made plays in key spurts here and there, and that I think is on the talent....but I don't think they were helped by the scheme. Too much cute shit, too many weird looks..players looking not entirely certain wtf they're doing.

[Flugel]

On 12/30/2018 at 9:37 PM, Clevfan4life said:

We were 6th against the run i beleive? I acknowledged we werent good against the pass but that could have something to.do with the fact myles was playing on on one leg. We had a better identity last year. We had a better foundarion to build on

Newsflash!  We were 0-16 in 2017.  Did someone slip ecstasy in your beer every Sunday or something? Nobody misses that or wants it back but you.  Our Corners couldn't cover their mouths in cold and flu season let alone cover any NFL WRs.  Williams said he saw 28 plays in 2017 where we were within a 1-1.5 steps of sacking the Quarterback if we could have just covered the quick pass better/longer.  1 year later, check out how many turnovers we caused Ben in week one and how many times we got to Drew Brees.  Just like this past Sunday, if we made our FG - we win the game.

This year, when healthy - we ranked #1 in turnover margin and that lasted for quite a while.  The reason we split with Baltimore was because we held them to 9 points (0 TDs) the first time we played them at home.  Reality check?  When you're coming off 0-16 football - it's not nearly as easy to overcome injuries especially when they occur to the investments we just made to upgrade 2017 like Ward and Mitchell in particular.  Once we lost 50% of that tandem on the field at the same time - it didn't feel like we got to the QB as frequently and our number 1 ranking in turnover differential decreased. 

The San Diego Chargers didn't do that much better when they hosted Baltimore.   They gave up 22 points.  And they even had St Joseph Bosa in their lineup.

FWI, when Gregg Williams has been in the right place - Jevon Kearse was rookie of the year (after switching from the ILB position he played in college to DE).  Oh yeah, the TN Titans made the Superbowl that same year with him as their DC.  Later on, he was DC for the Superbowl Champion Saints and DE Will Smith had the most sacks (13) he had in any 1 season throughout his career.  Myles Garrett just made the Pro Bowl right?  He knows how to coach DEs and defense in general in spite of whatever you learned playing DE in high school.  Sometimes you just gotta give it a rest Clevs! 

 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

14 hours ago, Tacosman said:

you're talking about jabril peppers?  He's not even a full time player....no he's not going to be 'really good'.  He's not a key piece of the defense going forward(like a ward or garrett).  

Ward and Garrett we’re both top 5 picks, usually top 5 picks are the players that can come in and help a team right away. 

Peppers has been developing and has flashed potential of being a solid tackling SS with range and power, he could be a force next year, you never know.

[tiamat63]

14 hours ago, Tacosman said:

you're talking about jabril peppers?  He's not even a full time player....no he's not going to be 'really good'.  He's not a key piece of the defense going forward(like a ward or garrett).  

Boy, those snap counts would really say otherwise.  

[Unsympathetic]

RPO's and the designed runs make Jackson more effective than Michael Vick.. freeze the LB's and those holes are a lot more open.

[Tacosman]

51 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Ward and Garrett we’re both top 5 picks, usually top 5 picks are the players that can come in and help a team right away. 

Peppers has been developing and has flashed potential of being a solid tackling SS with range and power, he could be a force next year, you never know.

I don't care who is a top 5 pick or not....I wasn't speaking towards value.  Peppers will stay on the team because his cap hit/salary in 2019 is pretty nil.  Same as any other player of his 

value level.  But peppers isn't some key foundational piece going forward thats my point.  Frankly the fact that so many posts in this forum are devoted to such a player are ridiculous.  

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

35 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

But peppers isn't some key foundational piece going forward thats my point.  Frankly the fact that so many posts in this forum are devoted to such a player are ridiculous.  

You don’t know that.

Year 1= D

year 2= C+

year 3? We’ll see..

He’s a pretty controversial player as much Browns fans can’t stand Michigan lol