Josh Gordon Leaving the Patriots to Focus on Mental Health

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

No ones crying here.. Especially on my end.. But as a person who has lived and dealt with addicts....  There has to be tough love.. Quit giving Josh enablers.. That is what the Browns.. And Now NE is doing.....  Thats where I stand...

Well....if you have lived and dealt with addicts, then it is you far more than anyone else here who may have been an enabler of someone at some point in time. 

Again, my point being....you seemed to express vitriol toward him.  While I am not particulary sympathetic, I hold no animosity ...as you seem to.

[The Gipper]

4 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Eh, I'd be willing to bet a very reasonable sum of money no one offered above a 5th round pick. IDC how much talent a guy has, with his past no way in hell that pick was going to be in the first 3 rounds. MAYBE a 4th round pick, but I doubt that.

 

And doing that would have meant losing tons of valuable reps for our future for a guy who didn't give a shit about the game or the Browns. You're right, that makes total sense.

Straight statistics wise,  What did we get out of Callaway and Perriman, compared to what they got out of Gordon......who possibly had the GOAT throwing to him instead of  TT and a rookie?

Probably quite a bit more.

[BaconHound]

46 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

Well it already DID yield more than a 7th rounder, since the Browns got a 5th.

But besides that, you keep overlooking other parts aside from compensation. There is the unlimited chances he received, the message it could send to others, as well as not helping the other guys develop, and/or trying to force it to him.

But by all means, have your opinion. Had he had those numbers in Cleveland, or double, and they franchise him, he gets what 15 million? Then the next day he has a problem and hes gone.

Transition tag not franchise tag

[BaconHound]

17 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

Eh, I'd be willing to bet a very reasonable sum of money no one offered above a 5th round pick. IDC how much talent a guy has, with his past no way in hell that pick was going to be in the first 3 rounds. MAYBE a 4th round pick, but I doubt that.

 

And doing that would have meant losing tons of valuable reps for our future for a guy who didn't give a shit about the game or the Browns. You're right, that makes total sense.

Perriman?

[hoorta]

7 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Straight statistics wise,  What did we get out of Callaway and Perriman, compared to what they got out of Gordon......who possibly had the GOAT throwing to him instead of  TT and a rookie?

Probably quite a bit more.

Easy peasy to find out Gipper. As I already posted, Gordon was 40 receptions for 720 yards, and 3 TDs.  Callaway is 39 receptions for 507 yards, and 4 TDs. Perriman in his few games- 11 receptions 219 yards, and 1 TD.  The best ability is availability.    

BTW, NFL.com picked up on the fact Gordon is probably going to get suspended indefinitely- this time for good, I'll bet.  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001002110/article/patriots-wr-josh-gordon-facing-indefinite-suspension

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, hoorta said:

Easy peasy to find out Gipper. As I already posted, Gordon was 40 receptions for 720 yards, and 3 TDs.  Callaway is 39 receptions for 507 yards, and 4 TDs. Perriman in his few games- 11 receptions 219 yards, and 1 TD.  The best ability is availability.    

BTW, NFL.com picked up on the fact Gordon is probably going to get suspended indefinitely- this time for good, I'll bet.  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001002110/article/patriots-wr-josh-gordon-facing-indefinite-suspension

Well, that totals 726 vs 720 yds,  50 catches vs. 40.  5 TDs to 3. 

Plus a 5th rounder that Dorsey can maybe turn into either a depth DB or depth OL...or something.

[hoorta]

3 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

Transition tag not franchise tag

Come on man!!!  Read the the news.   Gordon is DONE. 

Teams aren't going to offer a sack of seeds or a cold six-pack for Josh after his latest- "I have to leave now to get my head straight" gambit.  

[nickers]

55 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Well....if you have lived and dealt with addicts, then it is you far more than anyone else here who may have been an enabler of someone at some point in time. 

Again, my point being....you seemed to express vitriol toward him.  While I am not particulary sympathetic, I hold no animosity ...as you seem to.

I have 0 animosity towards him... He did it to himself... He obviously does not care.. Why should we.. We and the League have given him numerous opportunities to right his own ship...that ship apparently has sunk for good.. Now we can move on.. And just worry about the players who are making the team great again...

[jrb12711]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Straight statistics wise,  What did we get out of Callaway and Perriman, compared to what they got out of Gordon......who possibly had the GOAT throwing to him instead of  TT and a rookie?

Probably quite a bit more.

I'm not really a fan of comparing two guys to one, but I'd fairly compare callaway to Gordon. Gordon provided a bit more yards, but they both scores 4 TDs. I'd argue they both brought somewhat similar production and the Callaway isn't, ya know, a guy who is staying on the field and is committed to the team.

1 hour ago, BaconHound said:

Perriman?

Anybody. Josh Gordon was not the future of the Browns. Giving a guy like Perriman, Callaway, Higgins or anyone else in this truly rebuilding season was exponentially more important than keeping Gordon, losing those reps just to have this obvious conclusion happen again.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, nickers said:

I have 0 animosity towards him... He did it to himself... He obviously does not care.. Why should we.. We and the League have given him numerous opportunities to right his own ship...that ship apparently has sunk for good.. Now we can move on.. And just worry about the players who are making the team great again...

Well, your tone clearly implies animosity...and emotions (read: care).

So...go ahead, move on.

[beare]

I figured there was failed drug test involved amazing talent wasted. He will be limetime banned.

[Unsympathetic]

If at this point in this thread you actually think JG deserved either to stay with the Browns or another shot with some team:

Please look into something called Al-Anon.. it could be useful for you and those closest to you.

Addiction is a disease/malfunction of the group not just one person.  Al-Anon was created to [obviously] address alcoholism but the principle is the same.  Enabling behavior allows the addict to remain stuck -- and why not, he's always been catered to!  In this case, the catering is.. the addict avoids the true legal punishment defined for his crimes.

 

Consider the mental model of this [letting punishment happen to Gordon] to be thinking of yourself as stepping back and allowing justice to occur, not a malicious intent towards a person.  The reality is that Gordon has simply not come face to face with his ability to face punishment for his crimes.. because he's been enabled so often.

[PoeticG]

Gordon is doing the right thing. There is nothing to say that he's failed another test. He's suspended because he's taking a break and that violates his reinstatement. He could be reinstated in the offseason if things go well from here on out. The Patriots are okay with it and taking the time to get himself together before another relapse is a good sign of progress. These things take time and he's done an excellent job this season to remain on the field and producing well after the move. 

I would add that moving to a new town and being away from his children whom he just got back in his life must be taking a toll on the young man. 

Seriously does this mean that the Patriots own his rights next season or will he be a FA when he's reinstated? 

[ATOM]

2 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Gordon is doing the right thing. There is nothing to say that he's failed another test. He's suspended because he's taking a break and that violates his reinstatement. He could be reinstated in the offseason if things go well from here on out. The Patriots are okay with it and taking the time to get himself together before another relapse is a good sign of progress. These things take time and he's done an excellent job this season to remain on the field and producing well after the move. 

I would add that moving to a new town and being away from his children whom he just got back in his life must be taking a toll on the young man. 

Seriously does this mean that the Patriots own his rights next season or will he be a FA when he's reinstated? 

i believe he has played in enough games to be a F.A

[nickers]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Well, your tone clearly implies animosity...and emotions (read: care).

So...go ahead, move on.

Already did... I suggest everyone else do the same...

[hoorta]

3 hours ago, nickers said:

I have 0 animosity towards him... He did it to himself... He obviously does not care.. Why should we.. We and the League have given him numerous opportunities to right his own ship...that ship apparently has sunk for good.. Now we can move on.. And just worry about the players who are making the team great again...

Yeah it's sad that he can't control his demons. The scenario is NFL came up to him and in one hand had a check for $10+ million dollars, and in the other a blunt and a bottle of booze. Which one do you want more Josh?  Apparently the second option. 

1 hour ago, PoeticG said:

Gordon is doing the right thing. There is nothing to say that he's failed another test. He's suspended because he's taking a break and that violates his reinstatement. He could be reinstated in the offseason if things go well from here on out. The Patriots are okay with it and taking the time to get himself together before another relapse is a good sign of progress. These things take time and he's done an excellent job this season to remain on the field and producing well after the move. 

I would add that moving to a new town and being away from his children whom he just got back in his life must be taking a toll on the young man. 

Seriously does this mean that the Patriots own his rights next season or will he be a FA when he's reinstated? 

Um, not exactly, but there's only one way to take this....   

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported that Gordon is facing another indefinite suspension for violating terms of his reinstatement under the substance abuse policy, according to a source informed his status.

The league later confirmed the suspension:

"Effective today, Josh Gordon has been returned to the Reserve/Commissioner Suspended list indefinitely for violating the terms of his conditional reinstatement under the Policy and Program for Substances of Abuse."

Sorry Po, pull your head out of the sand. He flunked another drug test. The league can't come right out and say it because of privacy issues, but it will come out in the wash soon enough. Going to seek further treatment is admirable, but for all intents and purposes, he's done in the NFL. And if you were listening to Good Morning Football, they flat out said Gordon isn't the same player he was in his Pro Bowl season. He's still pretty good, but he's not a top 10 talent anymore. Maybe you should start a poll to see how long the guys here think he's gone for this time. Make sure "forever" is one of the options.   

[Mark O]

50 minutes ago, PoeticG said:

Gordon is doing the right thing. There is nothing to say that he's failed another test. He's suspended because he's taking a break and that violates his reinstatement. He could be reinstated in the offseason if things go well from here on out. The Patriots are okay with it and taking the time to get himself together before another relapse is a good sign of progress. These things take time and he's done an excellent job this season to remain on the field and producing well after the move. 

I would add that moving to a new town and being away from his children whom he just got back in his life must be taking a toll on the young man. 

Seriously does this mean that the Patriots own his rights next season or will he be a FA when he's reinstated? 

Of course his number 1 fan will still defend him.   What team will want a guy who skips all of training camp to "get his head together" then shows up and half asses the effort.  Gets traded to the best organization in the NFL, plays decently for them and then walks away from the team 2 games before the playoffs to "get his head together" again.   Total waste of talent.   Hes back on the suspended list for an indefinite amount of time.  He won't get another chance in the NFL anytime soon.   

New England Patriots wide receiver Josh Gordon has been suspended indefinitely for violating the terms of his conditional reinstatement under the NFL's drug policy, the league announced Thursday.

"Effective today, Josh Gordon has been returned to the Reserve/Commissioner Suspended list indefinitely for violating the terms of his conditional reinstatement under the Policy and Program for Substances of Abuse," the league said in a statement.

 

He and Justin Blackmon can sit on the front porch of some house somewhere now and smoke weed and talk about the good old days of playing in the NFL all they want now. 

 

[TexasAg1969]

Gordon was suspended indefinitely by the league. He was obviously dirty again.

[hish747]

1 hour ago, PoeticG said:

He's suspended because he's taking a break and that violates his reinstatement.

It doesn't make sense that taking a break to care for yourself would violate terms of the reinstatement. Do you have a citation for your claim?

[hoorta]

2 minutes ago, hish747 said:

It doesn't make sense that taking a break to care for yourself would violate terms of the reinstatement. Do you have a citation for your claim?

Po is in D-Nile, again. Plain as mud he flunked another drug test. Thank goodness he's not the Browns problem anymore. 

[bjh2130]

But but but boo hoo we gave him up for nothing. He's going to be a star. 

In all seriousness best of luck to Josh but this was tonight.

Edit PoG you need to see this. He failed a drug test. This mental health thing is true but his mental health problem is addiction

My friends cousin just saw josh gordon drinking in a bar at ATL airport 

[Orion]

As  I've said since Dorsey announced that he'd be cutting Gordon, ' You cannot have a guy like that on your team. '  Everybody attends training camp, works hard, gets to meetings on time, etc.  And then there's him.  And he gets to play.   Sends the wrong message to the rest of the players.

[Dutch Oven]

I can't believe that right before the playoffs, when the Patriots need him the most, Josh Gordon would do something to jeopardize his ability to be on the field. I mean, that sounds like something someone who is completely unreliable would do. That can't be true. 

[hoorta]

31 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

But but but boo hoo we gave him up for nothing. He's going to be a star. 

In all seriousness best of luck to Josh but this was tonight.

Edit PoG you need to see this. He failed a drug test. This mental health thing is true but his mental health problem is addiction

My friends cousin just saw josh gordon drinking in a bar at ATL airport 

EDIT: Just wow, just wow.  What do they say about a picture being worth a thousand words? Can we read Josh's mind? "Well I shouldn't do this, if I get caught, my career is probably over, but screw it, I DON'T CARE" that was a very expensive beer Mr. Gordon.  Nah they'll never test you at the wrong time Josh. If Gronk was around, he should have busted that beer bottle over Gordon's head to save him from another suspension. Of course Po's going to say it was just mango juice.    

24 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I can't believe that right before the playoffs, when the Patriots need him the most, Josh Gordon would do something to jeopardize his ability to be on the field. I mean, that sounds like something someone who is completely unreliable would do. That can't be true. 

Well, how many times did he do something similar with the Browns?  Thanks for the 5th round pick Bill. He's your problem now. 

[calfoxwc]

well, he got more money to buy more booze/dope whatever. So much for wanting to grow up and take care of his daughter, and be the player he aspired...

nah.

Next subject. He's just GONE.

 

[OldBrownsFan]

What a waste of talent. If he had his head in the game he could be one of the great receivers in the NFL. Too bad for the Patriots but glad he is gone from Cleveland.

[jcam222]

26 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

well, he got more money to buy more booze/dope whatever. So much for wanting to grow up and take care of his daughter, and be the player he aspired...

nah.

Next subject. He's just GONE.

 

I get the frustration with the guy and the personal responsibility falls squarely on him. That said what he needs is not about growing up. You do not keep mental illness or addiction in check by growing up. if only it were that easy.  As a human being I hope he finds his bottom without harm to him or others and makes it out .  

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

Yeah it's sad that he can't control his demons. The scenario is NFL came up to him and in one hand had a check for $10+ million dollars, and in the other a blunt and a bottle of booze. Which one do you want more Josh?  Apparently the second option. 

Um, not exactly, but there's only one way to take this....   

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported that Gordon is facing another indefinite suspension for violating terms of his reinstatement under the substance abuse policy, according to a source informed his status.

The league later confirmed the suspension:

"Effective today, Josh Gordon has been returned to the Reserve/Commissioner Suspended list indefinitely for violating the terms of his conditional reinstatement under the Policy and Program for Substances of Abuse."

Sorry Po, pull your head out of the sand. He flunked another drug test. The league can't come right out and say it because of privacy issues, but it will come out in the wash soon enough. Going to seek further treatment is admirable, but for all intents and purposes, he's done in the NFL. And if you were listening to Good Morning Football, they flat out said Gordon isn't the same player he was in his Pro Bowl season. He's still pretty good, but he's not a top 10 talent anymore. Maybe you should start a poll to see how long the guys here think he's gone for this time. Make sure "forever" is one of the options.   

After the next collective-bargaining agreement they won’t even test for dope. 

[Orion]

34 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

After the next collective-bargaining agreement they won’t even test for dope. 

If I were the league I would leave it to the individual teams to decide if they tolerate drinking and toking.

[mjp28]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

I can't believe that right before the playoffs, when the Patriots need him the most, Josh Gordon would do something to jeopardize his ability to be on the field. I mean, that sounds like something someone who is completely unreliable would do. That can't be true. 

A professional anything or anyone doctor, lawyer, pilot, policeman, teacher even athlete whatever knows the rules when you can and can not turn it on and off and what the consequences are of violating the rules. And the higher profile person the more attention the situation gets.

When you have some kind of an addiction problem and you let down those that depend on you or even your team especially with chance after chance it is time to go.

Time to move on.