Coach Williams

[The Gipper]

12 hours ago, Tacosman said:

 

Hiring gregg williams and keeping this bunch would be a big mistake.  this 4-2 run aside, there isnt another team in the nfl that would hire Williams as head coach(hell there arent that many that would even want him as their dc).....

Why should we give a shit about what other teams would do?  If he is working for us?

It's a tough spot for me because sure...I'd love for us to win the next to and have a 8-7-1 season.  But if that increases the chance of making the mistake of putting in this bunch that literally no other team would hire?  No thanks....give me 0-2 or 1-1 and being able to attract a much better HC and  coordinators too....

But you don't have a fucking clue if you would be hiring a better HC or coordinators...not a fucking clue in the world.

We have a really attractive HC job opening. We have a young qb who looks pretty good, a couple really good pieces on defense at premium positions in ward and garrett.  The idea that we should piss that away on gregg freaking williams is insane

Well....I see Williams as potentially a Marty Schottenheimer like figure.   We fired a coach mid season (Sam) and we promoted the DC to take his place on an interim basis...then permenantly.....and then won the Division for the next 5 years in a row with a bright young QB to go along with that elevated DC.

Just without the tendency to go into the prevent defense...hope fully.

I can certainly see that happening here.

 

[The Gipper]

3 hours ago, Tacosman said:

Gregg Williams has already failed once many years ago as a head coach.  He is known around the league in most circles as a blowhard.  Him going 4-2(or even 6-2) for a stretch as interim coach isn't going to convince another team to hire him as head coach.  This *might* have brought up his status enough to get another job as a DC somewhere next year.  

we can do a lot better than what would be a completely uninspiring hire.  

Yea....his story reminds you of another guy....failed as a HC...kind of a prick/asshole.   Now Who is that guy I am thinking of???   Um......Bela Lugosi?  Bilbo Baggins?  Billy Budd?  Bellatrix Strange?   OH!!!  yea.    Bill Belichick.

[Canton Dawg]

4 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

OK, I could be wrong on this, so nobody bite my head off, but I THINK that when you challenge the spot for a first down, the original spot will not be altered unless the first down is granted after review. In other words, it's not the spot that's being challenged, it's the first down that's challenged. So if the first down isn't awarded, the challenge is lost. It's an all or nothing type deal. What basically happened is we got screwed with the original spot (shocker), and even if Njoku didn't get the first, the spot should have been within a few inches, not a few feet. It was an incredible effort on his part, and it could've been enough to win. 

I don't think we could've challenged that spot jiggs, since we were inside of 2:00 minutes to play. 

[Mark O]

6 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

OK, I could be wrong on this, so nobody bite my head off, but I THINK that when you challenge the spot for a first down, the original spot will not be altered unless the first down is granted after review. In other words, it's not the spot that's being challenged, it's the first down that's challenged. So if the first down isn't awarded, the challenge is lost. It's an all or nothing type deal. What basically happened is we got screwed with the original spot (shocker), and even if Njoku didn't get the first, the spot should have been within a few inches, not a few feet. It was an incredible effort on his part, and it could've been enough to win. 

I don't think that is right.  I think they can move the ball even if it doesn't mean a first down and it sure seemed to me that the ball should've been moved a lot closer than the original spot. 

It wasn't a challenge I don't think because it was inside 2 minutes but I could be wrong as well. 

[MLD Woody]

If Williams can get a strong end to the season, when there is "nothing" to play for, you have to seriously consider him for full time

[hoorta]

6 hours ago, Tacosman said:

Gregg Williams has already failed once many years ago as a head coach.  He is known around the league in most circles as a blowhard.  Him going 4-2(or even 6-2) for a stretch as interim coach isn't going to convince another team to hire him as head coach.  This *might* have brought up his status enough to get another job as a DC somewhere next year.  

we can do a lot better than what would be a completely uninspiring hire.  

As others already said- some guys learn from their mistakes- the second time around. Just maybe, Williams will fall into that category. MHO is he deserves the opportunity. Don't know how old you are, but once upon a time the Browns had a coach Browns fans wanted to run out of town for "Metcalf up the Middle", and canning fan favorite Bernie with nothing to back him up. Yup- "Jump Art, and land on Bill".  

You know- the guy who may well go down as the GOAT of coaches- Bill Belichick.  

PS- I already shot down the top three candidates, so start naming guys you think who can do better than Williams .666 win% since he took over....  Instead of bitching Williams sucks. 

[Canton Dawg]

1 hour ago, hoorta said:

As others already said- some guys learn from their mistakes- the second time around. Just maybe, Williams will fall into that category. MHO is he deserves the opportunity. Don't know how old you are, but once upon a time the Browns had a coach Browns fans wanted to run out of town for "Metcalf up the Middle", and canning fan favorite Bernie with nothing to back him up. Yup- "Jump Art, and land on Bill".  

You know- the guy who may well go down as the GOAT of coaches- Bill Belichick.  

PS- I already shot down the top three candidates, so start naming guys you think who can do better than Williams .666 win% since he took over....  Instead of bitching Williams sucks. 

Yep, Belichik is on his 3rd team as HC...come to think of it Pete Carroll is on his 3rd go round as well.

[The Gipper]

6 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

Yep, Belichik is on his 3rd team as HC...come to think of it Pete Carroll is on his 3rd go round as well.

I guess you are counting the  2 minutes that he spent, theoretically, as the Jets HC.

[Canton Dawg]

5 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I guess you are counting the  2 minutes that he spent, theoretically, as the Jets HC.

Technically, he was HC for the Jets on 2 separate occasions.

New York Jets (1997–1999)Edit

Belichick had two different stints as the head coach of the New York Jets without ever coaching a game.

In February 1997, Belichick, who had been an assistant coach under Bill Parcells with the New York Giants and New England Patriots, was named the Jets interim head coach while the Jets and Patriots continued to negotiate compensation to release Parcells from his contract with the Patriots and allow Parcells to coach the Jets.^[27] Six days later, the Patriots and Jets reached an agreement that allowed Parcells to coach the Jets, and Belichick became the team's assistant head coach and defensive coordinator.^[28]

When Parcells stepped down as head coach in 1999, he had already arranged with team management to have Belichick succeed him. However, Belichick would be the New York Jets' head coach for only one day. When Belichick was introduced as head coach to the media—the day after his hiring was publicized—he turned it into a surprise resignation announcement. Before taking the podium, he scrawled a resignation note on a sheet of loose leaf paper that read, in its entirety, "I resign as HC of the NYJ." He then delivered a half-hour speech explaining his resignation to the assembled press corps.^[29]

Soon after this bizarre turn of events, he was introduced as the Patriots' 12th full-time head coach, succeeding the recently fired Pete Carroll. (The Patriots had tried to hire him away from Parcells/the Jets in the past.) Parcells and the Jets claimed that Belichick was still under contract to the Jets, and demanded compensation from the Patriots. NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabueagreed, and the Patriots gave the Jets a first-round draft pick in 2000 in exchange for the right to hire Belichick

[Orion]

Obviously, as the wins start to accumulate, it feels harder and harder to want to blow the thing up.  We haven't had wins in years.  We haven't been relevant in over a decade.  The team is playing hard for Williams.  Kitchens has the offense going.  We have SIX wins...in ONE season.  We WON IN DENVER.  DON'T TOUCH A THING!  If it ain't broke, don't break it.

But we've gotta pump the brakes.  

We beat the Jets with their rookie QB (the Jets ain't that good)

We beat a 5 win, struggling Falcons team.

We beat the Bengals who are a mess (with no D)

We handed Carolina their 5th straight loss (and Newton's arm wasn't right)

We won IN DENVER....but Denver didn't have John Elway or Payton Manning playing QB.  Their a shell of themselves.

 

NOW, I understand that we wouldn't have won ANY of these games last year.  And it's GREAT to have wins!!!   But this is NOT last year's team!  Dorsey got us some 'real football players', which is what he said the previous regime didn't do.    HE WAS RIGHT!

WE SHOULD BE WINNING THESE GAMES AT THIS TIME OF THE SEASON.  -  We have Baker Mayfield!  And we have Nick Chubb.  And They're getting it!.   Landry is a big help.   Perriman and Callaway.....Higgins....Njoku.   With the type of QB that Baker Mayfield has shown to be, and the upgraded talent AROUND the QB, we SHOULD be playing teams tough right about now.  The talent on the field is improved...and improving.

Williams and Kitchens are dong a good job.  But that's not to say that a coach that Dorsey has had planned for us wouldn't do a good job with our talent.

We can't just say that these guys are great because we're winning games now and we weren't with the previous coach(es).  Hue and his nemesis, Haley, had the bar set pretty low.  That was a mess!

 

I just don't want Haslam butting in and 'telling' Dorsey who the coach(es) will be.

If Dorsey, in January or February, tells us that Williams and Kitchens will stay on as HC & OC then I want that to be because HE feels these guys match his vision, mentality, ethic, etc. etc.  And I'll be fine with that.  But if he announces that he's hiring So&so as his HC and that he feels he's 'The Man' for the job, then I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.  

We want the BEST coach possible.  And I'll be interested to find out who Dorsey says that is.

 Of course, if the team keeps winning for Williams and Kitchens, it will make it a tough decision.  I mean, if you go ahead and let them go and bring in your own guy(s)...and you don't have a good season next season...then it's gonna be on you, John.

 

[Ghoolie]

On 12/16/2018 at 11:42 PM, Tacosman said:

 

<<Hiring gregg williams and keeping this bunch would be a big mistake.  this 4-2 run aside, there isnt another team in the nfl that would hire Williams as head coach(hell there arent that many that would even want him as their dc>>

So the Browns should hire a coach based on what other teams would do?

Also, how do you know what the FO of 31 other teams would do?

 

Quote

<<It's a tough spot for me because sure...I'd love for us to win the next to and have a 8-7-1 season.  But if that increases the chance of making the mistake of putting in this bunch that literally no other team would hire?  No thanks....give me 0-2 or 1-1 and being able to attract a much better HC and  coordinators too....>>

So, if this group finishes 6-2 , which would be a full.season. pace of 12 -4,  after 1-31, you would trash the guys who brought this on?

<<We have a really attractive HC job opening. We have a young qb who looks pretty good, a couple really good pieces on defense at premium positions in ward and garrett.  The idea that we should piss that away on gregg freaking williams is insane>>

We DID piss it away. For the first half of the season. If these "losers" had started the season, we might likely be atop the division right now.

 

There is a famous cartoon that shows General Custer on a hilltop, looking out hopelessly at a battlefied full off Indians. As a salesman tugs at his coat to get the General's attention, Custer says, "not now son, I have a battle to fight".

On the back of the salesman's coat are the words, "GATTLING MACHINE GUN COMPANY"

Your logic is like General Custer in this depiction.

[jiggins7919]

21 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Especially over a 15 year period.

In the early 2000s Williams was the 2nd of a string of HCs in the search to replace Levy and revive the Bills' glory days. The first was Wade Philips who was run out of town after winning a mere 29 games over three seasons.

Williams came in with a new, fledgling GM who somehow managed to outlast Gregg by two seasons. His 17 wins are second only to Dick Jauron's 21 since Phillips was shown the door. The rosters Gregg had to work with were largely a Whose Who of Who?... The most recognizable names were Patriot cast offs such as Bledsoe.

I like all of this, especially the message of the previous poster that some people learn from failure.  Browns Daily has mentioned multiple times that Gregg Williams never expected to get another chance at head coaching due to his history and coaching record, and they said that Gregg is relishing this opportunity  to not only serve as head coach, but to do so with his son.  No matter what happens, if he's kept on or not, I've enjoyed watching my team play under him, and I'm thankful for what he's helped accomplish.  And I know I've said this a time or two before, but I really do enjoy listening to what Gregg has to say at his pressers.  I'm currently listening to Gregg's Monday conference, and he just answered a reporter with, "Ya know, I appreciate you asking that" and he went on to answer the guy's question in a respectful, thorough manner.  I don't get the sense he plays games with the reporters, he seems to really provide genuine answers, and I've actually learned some things from him.  For example, the reporter (I think Grossi) asked about going for it on 4th and 1, and why he called the timeout.  Gregg immediately kind of chuckled and said he wished he DIDN'T call the timeout, but he did so because he felt like his team needed to calm down a little and get lined up a bit better (or something like that).  Gregg then went on to explain why he went for it instead of kicking the FG, and the answer was thorough and it made sense.  He also didn't throw anybody under the bus, and he said the call was 100% on him to go for it.  

I like Gregg Williams, and he's not the guy I thought he was.  Now I'm sure he can be gruff and he'll yell some colorful phrases, but you can tell when he's speaking to the media that he's a gifted communicator.  He's good at conveying a point, he doesn't appear to talk down to people, and it's obvious to me that he's enjoying this.  

A quick point about Freddie Kitchens from Browns Daily yesterday:  Freddie Kitchens is now the "hot offensive coordinator", and John DiFilipo doesn't have a job.  It was just a few weeks ago that Flip was mentioned as one of the hot names for possibly our coaching vacancy and others.  It's crazy.  

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie said:

 

There is a famous cartoon that shows General Custer on a hilltop, looking out hopelessly at a battlefied full off Indians. As a salesman tugs at his coat to get the General's attention, Custer says, "not now son, I have a battle to fight".

On the back of the salesman's coat are the words, "GATTLING MACHINE GUN COMPANY"

Your logic is like General Custar in this depiction.

Funny you should say that because guess which side had the newer lever action repeaters (Henrys and Winchesters) and which side had the breech loading single shot Springfields? Estimates from the number of shell casings recovered by metal detectors on the battle field are that the Indians had somewhere over 200 of those lever actions in .44 cal. and the 7th Cav troopers all had the Army standard issue .45 Springfields. The Army had not caught up to the available weaponry and consequently paid the price.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, jiggins7919 said:

I like all of this, especially the message of the previous poster that some people learn from failure.  Browns Daily has mentioned multiple times that Gregg Williams never expected to get another chance at head coaching due to his history and coaching record, and they said that Gregg is relishing this opportunity  to not only serve as head coach, but to do so with his son.  No matter what happens, if he's kept on or not, I've enjoyed watching my team play under him, and I'm thankful for what he's helped accomplish.  And I know I've said this a time or two before, but I really do enjoy listening to what Gregg has to say at his pressers.  I'm currently listening to Gregg's Monday conference, and he just answered a reporter with, "Ya know, I appreciate you asking that" and he went on to answer the guy's question in a respectful, thorough manner.  I don't get the sense he plays games with the reporters, he seems to really provide genuine answers, and I've actually learned some things from him.  For example, the reporter (I think Grossi) asked about going for it on 4th and 1, and why he called the timeout.  Gregg immediately kind of chuckled and said he wished he DIDN'T call the timeout, but he did so because he felt like his team needed to calm down a little and get lined up a bit better (or something like that).  Gregg then went on to explain why he went for it instead of kicking the FG, and the answer was thorough and it made sense.  He also didn't throw anybody under the bus, and he said the call was 100% on him to go for it.  

I like Gregg Williams, and he's not the guy I thought he was.  Now I'm sure he can be gruff and he'll yell some colorful phrases, but you can tell when he's speaking to the media that he's a gifted communicator.  He's good at conveying a point, he doesn't appear to talk down to people, and it's obvious to me that he's enjoying this.  

A quick point about Freddie Kitchens from Browns Daily yesterday:  Freddie Kitchens is now the "hot offensive coordinator", and John DiFilipo doesn't have a job.  It was just a few weeks ago that Flip was mentioned as one of the hot names for possibly our coaching vacancy and others.  It's crazy.  

So...in other words....he really is NOT like Bill Belichick. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Funny you should say that because guess which side had the newer lever action repeaters (Henrys and Winchesters) and which side had the breech loading single shot Springfields? Estimates from the number of shell casings recovered by metal detectors on the battle field are that the Indians had somewhere over 200 of those lever actions in .44 cal. and the 7th Cav troopers all had the Army standard issue .45 Springfields. The Army had not caught up to the available weaponry and consequently paid the price.

Who supplied the "new" repeating rifles to the Sioux et al?   And why didn't the Army have them?

[TexasAg1969]

25 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Who supplied the "new" repeating rifles to the Sioux et al?   And why didn't the Army have them?

http://www.historynet.com/battle-of-little-bighorn-were-the-weapons-the-deciding-factor.htm 

The Army Ordnance Board had made the decision and ironically Major Reno, whose command was separated from Custer and survived, was on the selection board.

The Indians got theirs through capture from individuals or through unscrupulous traders.

 

[Tour2ma]

16 hours ago, Orion said:

Dorsey got us some 'real football players', which is what he said the previous regime didn't do.    HE WAS RIGHT!

I did not realize Dorsey turned the roster over 100%... good to know.

[domcucch1994]

I hope that they keep him as HC/DC

 

I think they should leave Kitchens where he is, bring in Arians as Associate HC/Senior Offensive Assistant. Those two could create some great schemes together for next season, without sacrificing the playbook and scheme that another OC would bring.

[domcucch1994]

They should also let go of Walrus Wylie and bring the GOAT of LTs in to coach our Oline.. Joe Thomas

Especially Greg Robinson.. Having a helluva season.

[choco]

22 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I did not realize Dorsey turned the roster over 100%... good to know.

Pretty good list of players sashi acquired, even more impressive when ya also consider the guys we got on the trade downs.

Traded down for peppers with Watson and hooker on board, to take ward at 4 with that acquired pick the next year.  The brock trade netted Nick Chubb.

 

Sashi wasn't a great evaluator by any standard, but I think he takes more flak than he deserves.  Cleared the cap, acquired a shit ton of assets, which set Dorsey up nicely for the slam dunk. Sucked to go through it, but that's in the past and the future is now very bright.

[choco]

3 hours ago, domcucch1994 said:

They should also let go of Walrus Wylie and bring the GOAT of LTs in to coach our Oline.. Joe Thomas

Especially Greg Robinson.. Having a helluva season.

😲 While a great player, why would we assume he'd be a good coach?

[hoorta]

On 12/18/2018 at 9:51 AM, The Gipper said:

So...in other words....he really is NOT like Bill Belichick. 

I'll have to add in rebuttal to taco about Williams FAIL as HC in Buffalo. Listening to Red Zone & Jim Donovan- said he talked with one of the Bills beat reporters when Greg was there. Said then and now are like night and day.

[The Gipper]

23 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

I did not realize Dorsey turned the roster over 100%... good to know.

About 50%?

[domcucch1994]

1 hour ago, choco said:

😲 While a great player, why would we assume he'd be a good coach?

Because the Walrus might not make it to training camp..

Joe at least has his health.. and apparently a better dietitian.

[jrb12711]

5 hours ago, domcucch1994 said:

I hope that they keep him as HC/DC

 

I think they should leave Kitchens where he is, bring in Arians as Associate HC/Senior Offensive Assistant. Those two could create some great schemes together for next season, without sacrificing the playbook and scheme that another OC would bring.

I'd be very, very surprised if Bruce came back to NOT be a HC in the NFL. I could be wrong (and this scenario would be awesome), but I just don't think that's something he'd wanna do.

I'm not sure barring a collapse the next two games how you can justify giving the reigns to the guys, at least for another year or two (short-term contract). With that being said, Dorsey truly has been the master stroke so far in personnel and player decisions. If we do go another route, I'd be trusting of it being the right call.

[hoorta]

48 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said:

Because the Walrus might not make it to training camp..

Joe at least has his health.. and apparently a better dietitian.

If anyone saw Red Zone Monday-  well found the video.  LOL!!!!

 

[domcucch1994]

56 minutes ago, jrb12711 said:

I'd be very, very surprised if Bruce came back to NOT be a HC in the NFL. I could be wrong (and this scenario would be awesome), but I just don't think that's something he'd wanna do.

I'm not sure barring a collapse the next two games how you can justify giving the reigns to the guys, at least for another year or two (short-term contract). With that being said, Dorsey truly has been the master stroke so far in personnel and player decisions. If we do go another route, I'd be trusting of it being the right call.

I think its the perfect scenario..

Questions about his age and health have me a bit on the fence about him being the HC next year..

But to bring him into a situation where he doesn't have to have the stress of being "the guy", where he can lead in a different capacity. A more "advisory" sort of role, would be advantageous to him and to this team. IMO

[domcucch1994]

28 minutes ago, hoorta said:

If anyone saw Red Zone Monday-  well found the video.  LOL!!!!

 

Shit if the oline does this every practice, then we should keep him! haha

[domcucch1994]

2 hours ago, choco said:

😲 While a great player, why would we assume he'd be a good coach?

Because of his football IQ.

I think he'd be an outstanding addition..

JT in his career, dropped back to block on 6,680 pass attempts, 

 

only allowed 30 sacks.. That's it!

 

imagine the technique he can teach someone like Corbett or Robinson.

[TexasAg1969]

I love this shit. These guys are having a lot of fun while they turn this franchise around. 👍🎅