Coach Williams

[hoorta]

5 hours ago, Zombo said:

The team plays hard for him. He shows a lot of passion. He lets the offense do their thing agressively. Defense is 4-1 with Junior calling the plays.

Give him the job this week and lock up Kitchens too? I think the players would love it. No new systems, and going into the offseason with no turnover or turmoil for a change.

Time to think about it .. 

Z

Cleveland.com redid their poll. For us fans in the stands, it's now 70% want Greg to stay as HC.    

5 hours ago, Orion said:

Why did we not try a FG at the end?

 

Because Williams wanted to "stay aggressive." Hell we dry roasted Hue for punting against the Raiders- remember?  

1 hour ago, Orion said:

We trusted out kicker to kick a 40 yarder though.

I'm all in favor of being aggressive.  But with a one point lead.  (that's ONE measly point)....and what would be called an EASY FG staring you in the face...it's dumb to not kick the FG.  That's my opinion.  Did we win?  Yes.  But not because of THAT decision that's for sure.   And game day decisions go into the thinking of a John Dorsey when he's trying to decide on who his coach will be.  (among many other things of course)

Do I like what Williams has done with the team since he's been in charge?  Absolutely.  But I want to see smart game day coaching out of my HC....and I want to see it all through the game.

Ah, but bad things can happen. Remember the Ravens "kick six"?  Or Joseph could have missed.  He's not Phil Dawson. 

[Tour2ma]

Said it before... we can do a lot worse than Williams. All signs are he is prepping the team better than any HC we've seen in a good while.

On top of that he seems to be secure enough to let Freddy run the O while Gregg emphasizes the overall and his D. Something we haven't seen in an HC since Pet's year one with Shanny Jr. tending to the O. Even the STs have been elevated under Gregg.

[D Bone]

1 hour ago, bjh2130 said:

I would have preferred to kick it but I don't have a problem going for it and I certainly don't have a problem with the play call. I wouldn't have had a problem if we passed it either. However to say it was a bad play call, well I disagree with that sentiment. Sure they knew we were going to be running the ball but they knew we were going to be running the ball that whole series and we still gashed them. And that play would have worked also had we executed on the blocks but we didn't so it failed. The defense came out and won the game and the rest is history.

Edit one last thing, the Broncos pass rush on the line is way better than the run-stopping ability.

When I said "especially against that defense", I didn't mean the Broncos defense as a whole, I simply meant that defensive alignment, on that play. 

[Babernakle]

What do they do.  Keep the coaching staff as is or bring in someone else? I say keep it as it is. Dorsey will fill the wholes no doubts there. Side note nassib looked like a pile of shit today. The line is playing out of there minds.  The stable at rb is great and the wr are good.  As far a the draft goes - wr de cb? De cb wr? But in Dorsey we trust. 

[Orion]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

Because Williams wanted to "stay aggressive." Hell we dry roasted Hue for punting against the Raiders- remember?  

5 hours ago, Orion said:

Apples and Watermelons.  

Here, we were up one point.  And we needed a long yard.

Against the Raiders we had an 8 point lead...and they had been marching down the field and scoring points on us ALL DAY.  And we only needed 6 inches.  Two quite different scenarios.  

[Zombo]

5 hours ago, Orion said:

We trusted out kicker to kick a 40 yarder though.

I'm all in favor of being aggressive.  But with a one point lead.  (that's ONE measly point)....and what would be called an EASY FG staring you in the face...it's dumb to not kick the FG.  That's my opinion.  Did we win?  Yes.  But not because of THAT decision that's for sure.   And game day decisions go into the thinking of a John Dorsey when he's trying to decide on who his coach will be.  (among many other things of course)

Do I like what Williams has done with the team since he's been in charge?  Absolutely.  But I want to see smart game day coaching out of my HC....and I want to see it all through the game.

You make one yard and the game is over and you win.

You make a fg you gotta stop them from getting 7 instead of getting 3, but you still gotta stop them.

If you have a real chance to end the game take it ... Dont be a Hue.

Z

[Orion]

2 minutes ago, Zombo said:

You make one yard and the game is over and you win.

You make a fg you gotta stop them from getting 7 instead of getting 3, but you still gotta stop them.

If you have a real chance to end the game take it ... Dont be a Hue.

Z

I was pizzzd at Hue for the Raider game.  But this case was quite different.  I won't go back into the reasons....I'm just happy that, since you don't seem to see the difference, you won't be interviewed for the HC job. 

[Zombo]

9 minutes ago, Orion said:

I was pizzzd at Hue for the Raider game.  But this case was quite different.  I won't go back into the reasons....I'm just happy that, since you don't seem to see the difference, you won't be interviewed for the HC job. 

It's different,  but he wanted to be aggressive and go for the win and remove all doubt with a one yard play. I appreciate it. And he WILL be interviewed for the job.

Z

[Orion]

2 minutes ago, Zombo said:

he wanted to be aggressive and go for the win and remove all doubt with a one yard play. I appreciate it. And he WILL be interviewed for the job.

1)  I appreciate aggressive.  You play to WIN the game.  But in one possession and with only a FG, we could've lost.  Against the Raiders, one possession wasn't going to beat us.  If it were 6 inches required, that would be different...but it was a long yard.  

2)  Yes, Williams will get an interview.  And he deserves one.  -  He's got two more games left on his resume.  

[Ghoolie]

10 hours ago, Zombo said:

The team plays hard for him. He shows a lot of passion. He lets the offense do their thing agressively. Defense is 4-1 with Junior calling the plays.

Give him the job this week and lock up Kitchens too? I think the players would love it. No new systems, and going into the offseason with no turnover or turmoil for a change.

Time to think about it .. 

Z

I said it several weeks ago John. You just do not screw with this kind of energy. We have our HC and OC. Done.

[Tacosman]

 

Hiring gregg williams and keeping this bunch would be a big mistake.  this 4-2 run aside, there isnt another team in the nfl that would hire Williams as head coach(hell there arent that many that would even want him as their dc).....

It's a tough spot for me because sure...I'd love for us to win the next to and have a 8-7-1 season.  But if that increases the chance of making the mistake of putting in this bunch that literally no other team would hire?  No thanks....give me 0-2 or 1-1 and being able to attract a much better HC and  coordinators too....

We have a really attractive HC job opening. We have a young qb who looks pretty good, a couple really good pieces on defense at premium positions in ward and garrett.  The idea that we should piss that away on gregg freaking williams is insane

[bjh2130]

2 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

 

Hiring gregg williams and keeping this bunch would be a big mistake.  this 4-2 run aside, there isnt another team in the nfl that would hire Williams as head coach(hell there arent that many that would even want him as their dc).....

It's a tough spot for me because sure...I'd love for us to win the next to and have a 8-7-1 season.  But if that increases the chance of making the mistake of putting in this bunch that literally no other team would hire?  No thanks....give me 0-2 or 1-1 and being able to attract a much better HC and  coordinators too....

We have a really attractive HC job opening. We have a young qb who looks pretty good, a couple really good pieces on defense at premium positions in ward and garrett.  The idea that we should piss that away on gregg freaking williams is insane

You don't like Freddie Kitchens huh? If we don't keep him on I would put money on the fact he would be a offensive coordinator somewhere in the NFL next year.

[Ghoolie]

10 hours ago, Orion said:

Why did we not try a FG at the end?

 

Not going for a FG was the right thing to do. 

1) We made the first down and the refs spot was totally deplorable

2) We should have called a play action pass on 4th down. A slow developing run play was the wrong play.

3) THe FG gives the ball back to Denver with good field position, possibly a very good run back. 

We WERE NOT lucky................... Williams did what Marty Chokenhiemer didn't have the balls for............... he sent the wrath of god after Casey Kasem. He blitzed the bastard and made him a pussy. No luck at all. He trusted his defense, and he cut them loose. Again, the 4th down call was conservative... Kitchens needs to get more balls,,, but still...we earned the win and we closed it out. Always mroe impressive to close it out on offense.

[bjh2130]

18 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

Not going for a FG was the right thing to do. 

1) We made the first down and the refs spot was totally deplorable

2) We should have called a play action pass on 4th down. A slow developing run play was the wrong play.

3) THe FG gives the ball back to Denver with good field position, possibly a very good run back. 

We WERE NOT lucky................... Williams did what Marty Chokenhiemer didn't have the balls for............... he sent the wrath of god after Casey Kasem. He blitzed the bastard and made him a pussy. No luck at all. He trusted his defense, and he cut them loose. Again, the 4th down call was conservative... Kitchens needs to get more balls,,, but still...we earned the win and we closed it out. Always mroe impressive to close it out on offense.

I don't have a problem with either way we went. They likely would have started on the 25 on ensuing kickoff though. With the thin air you can all but guarantee touchback. So 75 yards for the win or 44ish for a 53 yard attempt to win the game (McManus long)

[hoorta]

53 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

 

Hiring gregg williams and keeping this bunch would be a big mistake.  this 4-2 run aside, there isn't another team in the nfl that would hire Williams as head coach(hell there arent that many that would even want him as their dc).....

It's a tough spot for me because sure...I'd love for us to win the next to and have a 8-7-1 season.  But if that increases the chance of making the mistake of putting in this bunch that literally no other team would hire?  No thanks....give me 0-2 or 1-1 and being able to attract a much better HC and  coordinators too....

We have a really attractive HC job opening. We have a young qb who looks pretty good, a couple really good pieces on defense at premium positions in ward and garrett.  The idea that we should piss that away on gregg freaking williams is insane

You can have your opinion- but you're way off base. That 4-2 run is exactly the reason other teams would be interested in Williams as a head coach. The season isn't over, but a win against the Bengals and a good showing against the Ravens guarantees Williams and Kitchens are back. So cry in your beer if it turns out that way. Neither Williams and Kitchens would have a shortage of job offers as it stands now. So who pissed in your Cheerios? BTW, you're in the minority of fans- the Cleveland.com poll 70% says bring 'em back. 

So instead of spewing venom, how about a few reasons why they suck? 

Har, much better? Arians? He's old and has health issues. McCarthy? Is as good as Rodgers. Riley? Unproven in the pros. Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make. 

 

[lodilobo]

6 hours ago, Tacosman said:

 

Hiring gregg williams and keeping this bunch would be a big mistake.  this 4-2 run aside, there isnt another team in the nfl that would hire Williams as head coach(hell there arent that many that would even want him as their dc).....

It's a tough spot for me because sure...I'd love for us to win the next to and have a 8-7-1 season.  But if that increases the chance of making the mistake of putting in this bunch that literally no other team would hire?  No thanks....give me 0-2 or 1-1 and being able to attract a much better HC and  coordinators too....

We have a really attractive HC job opening. We have a young qb who looks pretty good, a couple really good pieces on defense at premium positions in ward and garrett.  The idea that we should piss that away on gregg freaking williams is insane

This is stupid logic. We know what we are getting with Williams as HC. Our other choices are: hiring an unproven college coach, hiring an unproven NFL assistant, or hiring an experienced NFL coach who has recently been fired for losing. Hmmm....let me think....maybe it's just me, but I think I'll keep the guy who is a proven motivator and is currently winning. That's something we haven't seen here in a long time. 

[lodilobo]

16 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Go back and watch the end of the game, that TO was called with 19 seconds left on the play clock. U sent ur qb out to hard count, see if u can get em to jump...then maybe call TO to take the field goal. So u wait for that play clock. That was a move u guys would have utrerly roasted Hue for.....utterly. Hue would have had to go into witness protection

When Williams accumulates a loss record comparable to Hue's we will be nitpicking every move he makes. Defending Hue is a losing battle. He sucked...he still sucks, and he will always suck. 

[jiggins7919]

18 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

We should’ve had the ball moved up after the review. Instead of it being a full yard.

OK, I could be wrong on this, so nobody bite my head off, but I THINK that when you challenge the spot for a first down, the original spot will not be altered unless the first down is granted after review. In other words, it's not the spot that's being challenged, it's the first down that's challenged. So if the first down isn't awarded, the challenge is lost. It's an all or nothing type deal. What basically happened is we got screwed with the original spot (shocker), and even if Njoku didn't get the first, the spot should have been within a few inches, not a few feet. It was an incredible effort on his part, and it could've been enough to win. 

[Orion]

7 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Not going for a FG was the right thing to do. 

I'm glad that you won't be interviewed for the HC job.

 

7 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

THe FG gives the ball back to Denver with good field position, possibly a very good run back. 

You kick the ball out of the end zone and they get it at the 25.  And they need to go 75 yards for a TD to win.  Instead, we gave them the ball only needing to get to the 35 or so to beat us.  -  Apply those math skills that you're so proud of please.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

57 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

OK, I could be wrong on this, so nobody bite my head off, but I THINK that when you challenge the spot for a first down, the original spot will not be altered unless the first down is granted after review. In other words, it's not the spot that's being challenged, it's the first down that's challenged. So if the first down isn't awarded, the challenge is lost. It's an all or nothing type deal. What basically happened is we got screwed with the original spot (shocker), and even if Njoku didn't get the first, the spot should have been within a few inches, not a few feet. It was an incredible effort on his part, and it could've been enough to win. 

I guess it’s a lot easier being a ref from our couches and up in the stands where we can see everything better? That’s the only logic that can explain some calls this year. It’s just part of the game, I guess.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

1 hour ago, lodilobo said:

When Williams accumulates a loss record comparable to Hue's we will be nitpicking every move he makes. Defending Hue is a losing battle. He sucked...he still sucks, and he will always suck. 

People still bringing up Hue.  Fuck Hue.  He's gone.

[Tacosman]

7 hours ago, hoorta said:

You can have your opinion- but you're way off base. That 4-2 run is exactly the reason other teams would be interested in Williams as a head coach. The season isn't over, but a win against the Bengals and a good showing against the Ravens guarantees Williams and Kitchens are back. So cry in your beer if it turns out that way. Neither Williams and Kitchens would have a shortage of job offers as it stands now. So who pissed in your Cheerios? BTW, you're in the minority of fans- the Cleveland.com poll 70% says bring 'em back. 

So instead of spewing venom, how about a few reasons why they suck? 

Har, much better? Arians? He's old and has health issues. McCarthy? Is as good as Rodgers. Riley? Unproven in the pros. Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make. 

 

Gregg Williams has already failed once many years ago as a head coach.  He is known around the league in most circles as a blowhard.  Him going 4-2(or even 6-2) for a stretch as interim coach isn't going to convince another team to hire him as head coach.  This *might* have brought up his status enough to get another job as a DC somewhere next year.  

we can do a lot better than what would be a completely uninspiring hire.  

[Tacosman]

1 hour ago, lodilobo said:

This is stupid logic. We know what we are getting with Williams as HC. Our other choices are: hiring an unproven college coach, hiring an unproven NFL assistant, or hiring an experienced NFL coach who has recently been fired for losing. Hmmm....let me think....maybe it's just me, but I think I'll keep the guy who is a proven motivator and is currently winning. That's something we haven't seen here in a long time. 

why do we 'know' based on this short interim stretch but not based on his much longer first failed stint as a head coach?

Hiring williams, a coach nobody else wants, based on a 4-2 interim record is shortsighted.  If Cam doesn't miss that wide open guy in the end zone and the broncos had converted another first down or two at the end, we are 2-4......yeah you could play could/would game all day, but the point is in such a small sample size the difference between 2-4 and 4-2 can be razor thin.....

We can do a lot better than gregg williams for christ sakes...

[Tacosman]

8 hours ago, bjh2130 said:

You don't like Freddie Kitchens huh? If we don't keep him on I would put money on the fact he would be a offensive coordinator somewhere in the NFL next year.

possibly.....Depending on who the new HC is. however, he may push to bring in his own OC depending on his leverage

[domcucch1994]

17 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

why do we 'know' based on this short interim stretch but not based on his much longer first failed stint as a head coach?

Hiring williams, a coach nobody else wants, based on a 4-2 interim record is shortsighted.  If Cam doesn't miss that wide open guy in the end zone and the broncos had converted another first down or two at the end, we are 2-4......yeah you could play could/would game all day, but the point is in such a small sample size the difference between 2-4 and 4-2 can be razor thin.....

We can do a lot better than gregg williams for christ sakes...

Jesus Christ dude..

You're going to play the "what if" game?

What if Zane made those field goals?
What if we didn't get screwed by the refs in the Oakland game?
What if my aunt had balls? She would be my uncle right?

 

Williams has one more win in 6 games coaching this team than Hue had in 40!

 

Ride the hot hand..

 

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I guess it’s a lot easier being a ref from our couches and up in the stands where we can see everything better? That’s the only logic that can explain some calls this year. It’s just part of the game, I guess.

And that's totally fair. The one last week was in between several players and difficult to see maybe, but the Landry one...his head literally spun around, lol. Whatever, it didn't cost us. Baker threw a dime to Perriman right after! 

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

54 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

 

We can do a lot better than gregg williams for christ sakes...

If it ain’t broke... don’t fix it

[TexasAg1969]

51 minutes ago, Tacosman said:

why do we 'know' based on this short interim stretch but not based on his much longer first failed stint as a head coach?

Hiring williams, a coach nobody else wants, based on a 4-2 interim record is shortsighted.  If Cam doesn't miss that wide open guy in the end zone and the broncos had converted another first down or two at the end, we are 2-4......yeah you could play could/would game all day, but the point is in such a small sample size the difference between 2-4 and 4-2 can be razor thin.....

We can do a lot better than gregg williams for christ sakes...

Some people learn from a failure and given how this team is vastly improved, you take the bird in hand not the ones in the bush. Give him a legitimate shot with a team that believes in him and Kitchens. It's kind of like this old fudge recipe we have handed down over a century. It works so we don't fuck with it and I'd put it up against anyone else's.

2 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

If it ain’t broke... don’t fix it

Exactamundo!

[Tour2ma]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Some people learn from a failure...

Especially over a 15 year period.

In the early 2000s Williams was the 2nd of a string of HCs in the search to replace Levy and revive the Bills' glory days. The first was Wade Philips who was run out of town after winning a mere 29 games over three seasons.

Williams came in with a new, fledgling GM who somehow managed to outlast Gregg by two seasons. His 17 wins are second only to Dick Jauron's 21 since Phillips was shown the door. The rosters Gregg had to work with were largely a Whose Who of Who?... The most recognizable names were Patriot cast offs such as Bledsoe.

[calfoxwc]

I believe if anyone sat down with the players, and talked to them how things are going coaching wise,

it would come across that yes, "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT".

Baker said in an interview after the denver game - their philosophy is to play AGGRESSIVE.

Zombo nailed it - Baker says that they are at their best when they play aggressive.

Williams and Kitchens wanted the players to start having fun being a team. Hue didn't have

an aggressive nature to him - it held the Browns back, obviously.