Trade out of the 1st round next year and address our needs through FA...

[Ibleedbrown]

5 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

Because they had ben, their window is always open. 

Do you not have a similar faith in Baker? Not necessarily that he’s HOF but at least be a guy you build around?

[5150k9]

15 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

This is not a team that is going to be built through FA. It is CLEAR, Dorsey is the shit. He will build this team organically, and use FA to patch and spot fix, maybe add a special guy here or there. With what he did in the 2018 draft, you have to be out of your mind to now want him in the draft as much as possible.

^^^^^What he said^^^^^ And Im sure G meant "  With what he did in the 2018 draft, you have to be out of your mind to NOT want him in the draft as much as possible."

[Babernakle]

19 hours ago, nickers said:

No thats the ass backwards way of doing things.. You build and solidify with your draft.. you get spare parts in FA...

Why not do both. There have been a lot of guys come in this year as rookies and made huge contributions.  And fa that has done the same.  I not opposed to trading out of the first round, but this draft is looking heavy on d early so the ability to get a top notch offensive is there.  Perhaps a Jolio or aj type player.   If I was to guess it’s going to be a lot of both.

[BaconHound]

Hell no.  Keep adding young talent.  This team isn’t a free agent away.  They’ve beaten one team with a winning record.

[Clevfan4life]

8 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

Hell no.  Keep adding young talent.  This team isn’t a free agent away.  They’ve beaten one team with a winning record.

Not one FA, but a couple could very well put us in the afc champ picture. One of my biggest reasons for making this thread, is the avg lifespan of workhorses like chubb. That potential run game to go with baker is imo a foundation for a SB appearance. Thats my opinion, if u all dont agree, fine. But thats the basis for my "strike now" contention. 

[Tour2ma]

17 minutes ago, Babernakle said:

Why not do both.

There's no doubt that Dorsey will follow both paths in 2019 just as he did in 2018. It's a question of emphasis and price tags.

We'll also likely see the third prong again as well... player trade.

[Tour2ma]

4 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Not one FA, but a couple could very well put us in the afc champ picture. One of my biggest reasons for making this thread, is the avg lifespan of workhorses like chubb. That potential run game to go with baker is imo a foundation for a SB appearance. Thats my opinion, if u all dont agree, fine. But thats the basis for my "strike now" contention. 

Thanks for giving permission...

I just don't see us being primed for a deep playoff run... even if we keep our current staff. IMO our "window" has just cracked open... lotta learning, lotta growing to do over the next couple seasons to get primed.

I've seen a lot more teams go FA too early and fail than I have seen go early and cash. Foremost in my mind is NYG which spent like drunken sailors on their D only to see their O come apart at the seams... and they were more primed than we are now.

[Clevfan4life]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

Thanks for giving permission...

I just don't see us being primed for a deep playoff run... even if we keep our current staff. IMO our "window" has just cracked open... lotta learning, lotta growing to do over the next couple seasons to get primed.

I've seen a lot more teams go FA too early and fail than I have seen go early and cash. Foremost in my mind is NYG which spent like drunken sailors on their D only to see their O come apart at the seams... and they were more primed than we are now.

Permission for what? And didnt the giants go nuts in FA? Im wanting us to.fill 1 key role for sure and perhaps 1-2 others..

But just for fun, conremplate denarcus and clowney thst are coming free this year. I have not much doubt they'll resign with tbeir teams, especially clowney......but are u saying you wouldnt want us to.talk to clowney if he expressed interest? Garrett and clowney wouldnt just absolutely put tgis pass rush into fabled territory?

[Gunz41]

24 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Not one FA, but a couple could very well put us in the afc champ picture. One of my biggest reasons for making this thread, is the avg lifespan of workhorses like chubb. That potential run game to go with baker is imo a foundation for a SB appearance. Thats my opinion, if u all dont agree, fine. But thats the basis for my "strike now" contention. 

If your FA signing is a RB because he is a workhorse and bringing up Chubb and average lifespan, then you make absolutely zero sense. You would be getting an older RB, which in turn is closer to being done. 

[hoorta]

23 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Not one FA, but a couple could very well put us in the afc champ picture. One of my biggest reasons for making this thread, is the avg lifespan of workhorses like chubb. That potential run game to go with baker is imo a foundation for a SB appearance. Thats my opinion, if u all dont agree, fine. But thats the basis for my "strike now" contention. 

You're entitled to that opinion, but based on the responses you're getting- it's way in the minority. 

It takes more than players- takes a fair amount of luck- and no injuries. Pray nightly Baker doesn't get hurt. Gip starts every year with a who's in\ who's out. Anyone have the Jags, Falcons, and Eagles laying a collective egg this year? I sure didn't. Browns on a way upward trend next year? I sure hope so, but there's no guarantees. 

Amplifying what Tour said, and I'm in 100% agreement- the Dolphins thought they had the last piece when they signed Suh to a mega-contract. Didn't work out. BTW, the object isn't to get to the Super Bowl- it's to WIN the Super Bowl. Other than tying the Steelers and playing the Saints close early in the year- we got smoked by every other playoff team we faced.  That's not just a couple pieces away. And since we were talking about potential road trips next year and the schedule- we play the Patriots in Foxboro, and the Rams at home. Yikes. 

2 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

If your FA signing is a RB because he is a workhorse and bringing up Chubb and average lifespan, then you make absolutely zero sense. You would be getting an older RB, which in turn is closer to being done. 

And he's forgetting the Broncos got a pretty fair running back in Lindsay as an undrafted free agent. Ditto that for Arian Foster with the Texans. No need to pull someone off the scrap heap. 

[Tour2ma]

17 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Permission for what? And didnt the giants go nuts in FA? Im wanting us to.fill 1 key role for sure and perhaps 1-2 others..

But just for fun, conremplate denarcus and clowney thst are coming free this year. I have not much doubt they'll resign with tbeir teams, especially clowney......but are u saying you wouldnt want us to.talk to clowney if he expressed interest? Garrett and clowney wouldnt just absolutely put tgis pass rush into fabled territory?

Permission to disagree... It was tacit in your prior post.

NYG signed 3 big name FAs for their D... Olivier Vernon, Janoris Jenkins and Damon Harrison. If my math is correct, then that's the top end of the range for which you are arguing.

Clowney? Talk? Sure, but not sure how hard I'd pursue or high I'd be willing to pay. I'm honestly torn here because I think he's a bit too much of a freelancer for Williams' D. Plus he works the same side as Garrett. Then there's the fact that we've come close to matching his 2019 production by committee.

[Clevfan4life]

Uhh yyeeaaahhh, not a RB i was thinking of

[Clevfan4life]

3 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Permission to disagree... It was tacit in your prior post.

NYG signed 3 big name FAs for their D... Olivier Vernon, Janoris Jenkins and Damon Harrison. If my math is correct, then that's the top end of the range for which you are arguing.

Clowney? Talk? Sure, but not sure how hard I'd pursue or high I'd be willing to pay. I'm honestly torn here because I think he's a bit too much of a freelancer for Williams' D. Plus he works the same side as Garrett. Then there's the fact that we've come close to matching his 2019 production by committee.

Well garrett spends time on the LDE now....im sure clowney and him could switch around like joey and ingraham do

[Tour2ma]

3 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Uhh yyeeaaahhh, not a RB i was thinking of

Ditto... Duke's our vet in the RB now.

[Gunz41]

56 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

Uhh yyeeaaahhh, not a RB i was thinking of

Are you trying to troll? Or drunk and not remembering what you say?

Not one FA, but a couple could very well put us in the afc champ picture. One of my biggest reasons for making this thread, is the avg lifespan of workhorses like chubb. That potential run game to go with baker is imo a foundation for a SB appearance. Thats my opinion, if u all dont agree, fine. But thats the basis for my "strike now" contention. 

[Ghoolie]

5 hours ago, 5150k9 said:

^^^^^What he said^^^^^ And Im sure G meant "  With what he did in the 2018 draft, you have to be out of your mind to NOT want him in the draft as much as possible."

YEP, sorry for the typo. FWIW I am in the process of scheduling 2 eye surgeries. Nothing critical, well, I mean it is eye surgery, but it is a routine, 3-minute process that will remove my lenses, slightly blocked with cataracts and put in new lenses, which they say will return my eyesight to that of an 18-year-old man. No more contacts, no glasses. HOWEVER................because I wore hard lenses all my life, I have had to not wear them and stick to glasses for the past 2 months. My vision is sloppy with glasses so I just don't have the patience to spell check my stuff.

But, indeed, why would you not want Dorsey drafting as many players as possible? This Browns team is so much fun and I am so proud of them. We have waited for this team since 1999. God Bless John Dorsey, Greg Williams and Freddie Kitchens. go Damn Haslam if he messes with this, RIght now, his team is on auto pilot. He needs to sit back, fidget with his nuts and leave it alone.

[The Cysko Kid]

Looks like no one likes your idea. And with good reason, because it sucks. 

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Ghoolie said:

YEP, sorry for the typo. FWIW I am in the process of scheduling 2 eye surgeries. Nothing critical, well, I mean it is eye surgery, but it is a routine, 3-minute process that will remove my lenses, slightly blocked with cataracts and put in new lenses, which they say will return my eyesight to that of an 18-year-old man. No more contacts, no glasses. HOWEVER................because I wore hard lenses all my life, I have had to not wear them and stick to glasses for the past 2 months. My vision is sloppy with glasses so I just don't have the patience to spell check my stuff.

But, indeed, why would you not want Dorsey drafting as many players as possible? This Browns team is so much fun and I am so proud of them. We have waited for this team since 1999. God Bless John Dorsey, Greg Williams and Freddie Kitchens. go Damn Haslam if he messes with this, RIght now, his team is on auto pilot. He needs to sit back, fidget with his nuts and leave it alone.

Hope the cataract surgery goes well. And it's not a 3 minute procedure either. Just my 0.02- but I'd steer clear of those Surgeons who are trying to cram in as many procedures as they can in a day- so they can buy a private island out in the Caribbean. BTW, if you need reading glasses, they can correct you 20\20 for distance, but you'll still need them for up close. 

What I did for my surgery was split the difference. Was so damn nearsighted that big E at the top of the chart was just a blur. But up close- I could read microprint. So after, I went from 20\600 to 20\200 distance- but I can still read up close- just take my glasses off.    

[Ghoolie]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

Hope the cataract surgery goes well. And it's not a 3 minute procedure either. Just my 0.02- but I'd steer clear of those Surgeons who are trying to cram in as many procedures as they can in a day- so they can buy a private island out in the Caribbean. BTW, if you need reading glasses, they can correct you 20\20 for distance, but you'll still need them for up close. 

What I did for my surgery was split the difference. Was so damn nearsighted that big E at the top of the chart was just a blur. But up close- I could read microprint. So after, I went from 20\600 to 20\200 distance- but I can still read up close- just take my glasses off.    

The Physician who is doing mine did the Father of my optometrist, and opthamologist. I am.pptimg for the laser procedure and the high performance lens. I am fine with needing reading glasses. My left eye is just not sharp any more. Once the left is done I am going to have the right done and then voila no more contacts and glasses.

 

This has been a pain in the ass. 2 months.in glasses. I am not happy.

[Clevfan4life]

7 hours ago, Gunz41 said:

Are you trying to troll? Or drunk and not remembering what you say?

Not one FA, but a couple could very well put us in the afc champ picture. One of my biggest reasons for making this thread, is the avg lifespan of workhorses like chubb. That potential run game to go with baker is imo a foundation for a SB appearance. Thats my opinion, if u all dont agree, fine. But thats the basis for my "strike now" contention. 

Where does that say i want a FA RB signing? U need to re read my original post, maybe do it slowly and pronounce every word....

Our current running game to.go along with baker, imo, is the foundation for a SB run....not just a 1st round playoff appearance. So is that saying RB is a "hole" in our team that im saying needs filled now in free agency? OBVIOUSLY not. 

My point is theres a couple holes in this team that if filled in free agency, may very well put this ream in the AFC championship next year. But if we use the draft, we may acquire a player that takes a couple years to pan out, if he ever does at all. Ofc, my mind may change on draft day depending on how the 1st round pans out...we dont know. Im only sayingbthis might be the year to belichick it and trade out so that we have the ammo the following year to trade higher into the round...which if things go well we'll have an even worse draft pick in 2020......get it?

[TexasAg1969]

4 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

The Physician who is doing mine did the Father of my optometrist, and opthamologist. I am.pptimg for the laser procedure and the high performance lens. I am fine with needing reading glasses. My left eye is just not sharp any more. Once the left is done I am going to have the right done and then voila no more contacts and glasses.

 

This has been a pain in the ass. 2 months.in glasses. I am not happy.

After I had both done for better distance vision (because I hike the outdoors for wildlife and vistas), I have been tested at 20/15 vision. Two things really stood out, the really vivid colors that got washed out over the years and the veins in the leaves at the tops of trees. Used to be a dull greenish mass and now they really sparkle individually! Well worth it Tom. And I got a 4X scope for my 22LR pistol because with reading glasses I can see the crosshairs real well and the target is focused downrange by the scope which I can also see very well with the reading glasses. Perfect solution for a target shooter (I only hunt animals with a camera now).🤩

[ballpeen]

Top free agents are great if you think you are a player away.  We aren't a player away.  We have a couple of positions on O that need work and 3-4 spots on the D.

 

Dorsey is going to build through the draft.  He will probably use free agency to pick up 2-3 guys that would be considered middle of the roster guys. 

[jiggins7919]

I'm too lazy to look it up, but what did the Bears give up for Mack? At least one first rounder, right? And that pick isn't going to be that early, so that's a win. It's the reason I was shouting from the rooftop to make a deal for Mack before anyone else did. Normally I would NEVER entertain trading away a #1 pick, but if the player is right, and they're a young dominant force, why the heck not? I mean, I'm not even sure HOW you'd block Garrett and Mack at the same time, and if you got behind and had to pass? Yeesh. 

Anyway, you're going to start seeing this more and more. A while ago I said somebody would give up a 1st rounder for Amari Cooper and a few board members absolutely grilled me and made fun of me. Of course it actually happened and I don't look like quite as much of an idiot (well, maybe), and it's been a positive for the Cowboys. 

For far too long draft picks have been overvalued. I mean, we drafted a backup center with the 33rd pick of the draft, and lord knows what we could've gotten for it. It's too early to know if we made the right move, but we drafted a backup for Tretter, who is beasting on one leg. Hopefully Corbett works out, but I would have loved to know the offers we got for him. 

The original poster might be a little off here, but I do see his point. One of the best ways to create a winning team is to have your QB playing well at the beginning of his rookie deal. Why is that so important? Because the rookie contracts don't hold a CANDLE to the money QBs will get when it's time to re-sign. Remember the Joe Flacco $100 million contract? What choice did the Ravens have? They paid a bunch of money to their QB because the rookie deal expired and it completely screwed them. 

So while we don't want to go OVERBOARD, we do want to explore the possibility of trading some picks for players. There will always be teams trending in opposite directions. The Raiders want picks, and they're selling off their players. I'd be shocked if Derek Carr was on the team next year. If Alex Smith retires (my heart hurts for him), don't you think it'd be smart for Washington to trade for him? 

Let's look at the Khalil Mack trade again. There's almost NO WAY Mack isn't going to be great. The only real threat is injury, and you can't really predict that. Now what's the hit rate for 1st round picks? It's something we know all about. Now obviously you have to PAY Mack a shit load, but if you have the resources, why not? It's part of the reason why I wanted him so badly. We had the cash, let's make the deal. 

What makes me really excited is John Dorsey has already proven himself to be more than competent, and also someone who isn't afraid to make a big deal. It's a fun time to be a Browns fan, and how awesome is THAT? 

[domcucch1994]

If they trade their 1st rounder go after Von Miller

[jiggins7919]

7 minutes ago, domcucch1994 said:

If they trade their 1st rounder go after Von Miller

And that's the kind of player I'm talking about. Now obviously I don't think Von would be available, but go after somebody like THAT. I really think we're going to see more of those Mack and Amari Cooper deals, as teams become increasingly segregated into the groups of "building a team" and "building assets". 

It's kind of a fun game to play. The "who would I want on my team" game. For me, it begins and ends with defensive end. Why? Because I want more pressure opposite Garrett. I know our coaches and players are doing a good job of building up Ogbah and celebrating the things he does that don't get statistically recorded or easily noticed. And there could be a lot of truth to that, but I can't help but think that we need someone else there. I had high hopes for Ogbah this year, and I would've bet he was due for a much better statistical season, but we haven't seen it. Has he been bad? I don't think so. But has he made the type of impact we hoped for? 

Other than defensive ends, I'd love to find a tackle upgrade. That being said, I do think our tackle problem has kind of been less and less of an issue. You almost never even hear Hubbard's name anymore, and Greg Robinson has been locking down the LT spot for weeks now. We know Greg isn't perfect, but the guy is starting to show why he was picked #2 overall. Greg's biggest problem is holding. He holds FAR too much, and he also holds when he doesn't have to. Greg needs to understand that tackles get beat every once in a while, and instead of holding, maybe just have a bit of faith your teammates will still make it work. Now if your qb is about to get smoked, well yeah...hold. Lol. But Greg is really starting to hurt us with these penalties, and he's got to know the refs are watching him. It's frustrating because you can see the talent, the power, and the rare mobility. 

Anyway, I'd stay tuned after the season is over because we already know Dorsey loves to wheel and deal. I'd be stoked to see us make a "splash deal" and continue to build this team up. I've heard some Browns fans voice frustrations over Jarvis Landry because he's not playing up to his lofty salary, but I disagree. I think Landry's attitude and persona are VITAL to the state of our team, and Landry will only get better if Perriman continues to improve or we sign another stud WR. 

[beare]

very good teams build through the draft and mix in a few free agents

[jiggins7919]

5 minutes ago, beare said:

very good teams build through the draft and mix in a few free agents

I think that's been the best method, but I also think things are changing, even it's just a little bit. Look at what the Rams did. While they didn't trade away too many early assets, they saw they had their QB on the rookie contract, and they went out and acquired some free agents and also traded for some talent. Money will get tighter when they have to re-sign Goff, mainly because they had to pay Aaron Donald whatever he wanted. 

[Tour2ma]

11 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I think that's been the best method, but I also think things are changing, even it's just a little bit. Look at what the Rams did. While they didn't trade away too many early assets, they saw they had their QB on the rookie contract, and they went out and acquired some free agents and also traded for some talent. Money will get tighter when they have to re-sign Goff, mainly because they had to pay Aaron Donald whatever he wanted. 

Even before last nite I'm not sure LAR is a great example to promote the FA route...

They added Cooks, Whitworth, Peters, Talib and Suh... and since Kupp went down they've been spiraling back to earth.

Also need to look at who they let leave to help them afford who they brought in. In the Rams case it was some pretty good LBs, Ogletree and Quinn, and a great CB, Johnson.

[TexasAg1969]

1 hour ago, domcucch1994 said:

If they trade their 1st rounder go after Von Miller

He's already got a Browns jersey. Garrett traded with him after the game Sat.😂

[The Gipper]

12 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said:

Looks like no one likes your idea. And with good reason, because it sucks. 

How about this idea:    We keep our draft picks....use them to take more good young players...AND, fill in a few holes here and there with FA veterans. And maybe a trade or two. 

You know....sorta like what we did this year.

Traded a bad backup QB for Randall.   You know all about our draft class....picked up Landry in FA (or was he a trade too?)...and a couple of others....Perriman, Robinson, Zeitler, Hubbard  etc.