The Gipper Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said: Most people consider the modern age the super bowl era. Again show me where that was an official decree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: Or post WWII, at least. Show me where that was an official decree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 47 minutes ago, The Gipper said: They are not my rules they are just the rules show me where some motherfucker has declared where any “on “modern football had begun tell me where the NFL has declared that to be an official decree Gip, you're the only one who cares about that crap. So it's not an "official" decree. But for all intents and purposes, it's a practical one. Like "the post WW II" era, a marker in time. You want to say every war was just another war since David and the Israelites fought the Philistines? Same difference. The game of Otto Graham and the 50's Browns isn't the same as the game being played by 2018 teams. Bigger, stronger, faster. Dick Modelewski played defensive end at 220 pounds. By today's standards, he'd be a very light linebacker. 50 yard field goals were rare back then, now they've gotten routine. They can't move the goalposts back any farther, they'll have to shrink them. I'd have to wonder if the greatest player of his era- Jim Thorpe could even make it as a kick returner today. Though he was bigger than I thought- 6'1" 203. Free safety? His "records" in the 1912 Olympics are pathetically slow, or low- by current standards. Usain Bolt has him beat by three seconds in the 200, and the current record in the 1,500 is a full minute faster than Thorpe's time. You can't train fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 On 12/9/2018 at 9:52 PM, The Cysko Kid said: He's the first browns quarterback since Bernie Kosar to record a touchdown in each of his first ten games. He's keeping some rarified company within the organization, as he's passed Otto Graham for most TDs thrown by a Browns rookie. And if we factor in how many consecutive games this franchise went without a win prior to the first game Baker appeared in (and overcame a deficit) - even more remarkable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted December 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 9 hours ago, The Gipper said: They are not my rules they are just the rules show me where some motherfucker has declared where any “on “modern football had begun tell me where the NFL has declared that to be an official decree The fact that they keep separate records, especially relating to championships, since 1970 should be all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 14 hours ago, Clevfan4life said: https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/12/gregg-williams-digs-baker-mayfields-long-ball-and-has-seen-even-longer-in-practice.html U sure about the arm thing? That first pass of the game convinced me he's got easily the best arm we've had since 99. 62 yds on a med rope, on the money? I mean, maybe weedon tech had the arm for that but it would have landed out of bounds. But coach said in that article they've seen alot longer than 63 yds in practice Yes, I am sure. Baker's throwing velocity comes from his base and flows up to and thru his arm. From his knees I'm not sure he could sling it 45-yd. As others pointed out, Wheezy and DA had stronger arms. I'd add Jason Campbell to the list. 14 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said: Most people consider the modern age the super bowl era. Or at least post color TV... Note that Gip demands proof while offering none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 11 hours ago, hoorta said: You want to say every war was just another war since David and the Israelites fought the Philistines? Same difference. Oh, that was a great one! David threw the rock in stride to the target. Awesome spiral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 Pro Football Hall of Fame considers 1945 the beginning of the modern era. I don't think you get your wrist slapped with a ruler if you personally consider 1920, 1932 or 1960 the Modern Era. But I go with the HOF. If you mean "Super Bowl Era" then say "Super Bowl Era" or you can argue with Gipper for a page and a half. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 12 hours ago, hoorta said: Gip, you're the only one who cares about that crap. So it's not an "official" decree. But for all intents and purposes, it's a practical one. No it isn't....there is no practicality to it at all....merely arbitrary because people are too dumb to study history....and only know what has gone on in their own short, miserable lives. Many people here probably do not remember a time when there were no Jacksonville Jags or Carolina Panthers in the league.....so, no, its just arbitrary. Like "the post WW II" era, a marker in time. Why is WWII any more of a marker than WWI? Its not...it is just more recent. You want to say every war was just another war since David and the Israelites fought the Philistines? Same difference. How about the Civil War....that war is actually still having as much impact on American Society as WWII is...really...I see it...with these fucktards going around with their confederate and nazi flags. The game of Otto Graham and the 50's Browns isn't the same as the game being played by 2018 teams. Bigger, stronger, faster. Perhaps true.....but the games played in the 70s and 80s had more in common with the 50s game than they do with today's game. Dick Modelewski played defensive end at 220 pounds. By today's standards, he'd be a very light linebacker. 50 yard field goals were rare back then, now they've gotten routine. They can't move the goalposts back any farther, they'll have to shrink them. I'd have to wonder if the greatest player of his era- Jim Thorpe could even make it as a kick returner today. Though he was bigger than I thought- 6'1" 203. Free safety? His "records" in the 1912 Olympics are pathetically slow, or low- by current standards. Usain Bolt has him beat by three seconds in the 200, and the current record in the 1,500 is a full minute faster than Thorpe's time. You can't train fast. (I disagree with this vehemently...yes, you can) Sure, training methods have been improved....but an even bigger difference is: money. But that too is just arbitrary. You can't just shut off a sports history because there is now more money....or better training and nutrition. Otto Graham was bigger than Drew Brees and Baker Mayfield...even if the linemen in front of them are now bigger (fatter?)....Jim Brown was bigger than Todd Gurley and Ezekiel Elliott...and likely faster. I mean....are we to do this with each sport? Nothing in baseball counts before they broke into divisions in 1967? (OK, the careers of Babe Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mays, Mantle, Wagner etc etc. do not count). Nothing in the NBA counts until after the merger with the ABA (so throw out the careers of Russell, Cousy, Chamberlain, Petit etc.) Nothing in Hocky counts until after the merger with the WHA (Gordie Howe, Maurice Richard, Esposito, Mikita...all of you can fuck off now. No....ain't buying no arbitrary cutoff time just for the sake of lazy thinking. One other point: do you know when the record for most passing yards in a game was set...and still exists? LIke 1951....with all the pass happiness we have now....they still knew how to pass the ball for a lot of yards then. And Don Hutson had 99 pass TD receptions in 11 years between 1935-1945....and only 9 players have more at this point...all of whom played longer careers: Rank Player TD Years Tm 1 Jerry Rice+ 197 1985-2004 3TM 2 Randy Moss+ 156 1998-2012 5TM 3 Terrell Owens+ 153 1996-2010 5TM 4 Cris Carter+ 130 1987-2002 3TM 5 Marvin Harrison+ 128 1996-2008 clt 6 Antonio Gates 116 2003-2018 sdg 7 Larry Fitzgerald 115 2004-2018 crd 8 Tony Gonzalez 111 1997-2013 2TM 9 Tim Brown+ 100 1988-2004 2TM Steve Largent+ 100 1976-1989 sea 11 Don Hutson+ 99 1935-1945 gnb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 hours ago, The Cysko Kid said: The fact that they keep separate records, especially relating to championships, since 1970 should be all you need. No, they don't....where do you see that? Maybe some media compiles these records separately...but there is nothing officially separating records...at all...see my post above. Hutson is right in there with the other guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 Most people consider the modern age the super bowl era. Or at least post color TV... Note that Gip demands proof while offering none. Bullshit....I showed two examples above. Hutson...he was not at all segregated from later players........and the passing record....still standing, again not segregated. I can give you hundreds of other examples if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 42 minutes ago, Zombo said: Pro Football Hall of Fame considers 1945 the beginning of the modern era. I don't think you get your wrist slapped with a ruler if you personally consider 1920, 1932 or 1960 the Modern Era. But I go with the HOF. If you mean "Super Bowl Era" then say "Super Bowl Era" or you can argue with Gipper for a page and a half. (and lose) Zombo I don't recall ever seeing that. Is that on their website? I know that the HOF does list players as pre-modern...but that is only because of their positions. So many early players played both ways is why they did that. A guy would play both OC and DT......and like Sammy Baugh, he would play QB and then go play safety....and also punt. But I don't know if WWII is the cutoff.....example: Chuck Bednarik. But that does NOT mean that their careers should be counted as non-existent....like it seems that some of these assburgers here want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 Leaders Rank Player Yds Tm Boxscore 1 Norm Van Brocklin+ 554 RAM Los Angeles Rams vs. New York Yanks, September 28, 1951 2 Matt Schaub 527 HOU Houston Texans vs. Jacksonville Jaguars, November 18, 2012 Warren Moon+ 527 HOU Houston Oilers vs. Kansas City Chiefs, December 16, 1990 4 Ben Roethlisberger 522 PIT Pittsburgh Steelers vs. Indianapolis Colts, October 26, 2014 Boomer Esiason 522 ARI Arizona Cardinals vs. Washington Redskins, November 10, 1996 6 Dan Marino+ 521 MIA Miami Dolphins vs. New York Jets, October 23, 1988 7 Matthew Stafford 520 DET Detroit Lions vs. Green Bay Packers, January 1, 2012 8 Tom Brady 517 NWE New England Patriots vs. Miami Dolphins, September 12, 2011 9 Derek Carr 513 OAK Oakland Raiders vs. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, October 30, 2016 Phil Simms 513 NYG New York Giants vs. Cincinnati Bengals, October 13, 1985 I does not say most passing yards in game since 1970...or any other arbitrary date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 17 hours ago, Dutch Oven said: Mayfield has the best arm in when considering arm strength AND accuracy. Weeden and Derek Anderson had stronger arms, but weren't accurate and possessed zero ability to put touch on the ball. I will admit, because we have had so damn many qb's, that often its a struggle to rem them right. Especially DA, that feels like civil war era history. But weedon is still somewhat fresh ob the mind......and that first throw from baker to my foggy recollection, looked as good as anything i ever saw weedon throw. And to hear coach say essentially that they've seen alot longer than that in practice? If weedon had a stronger arm we might be parsing kunt hairs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 hour ago, The Gipper said: I don't recall ever seeing that. Is that on their website? I know that the HOF does list players as pre-modern...but that is only because of their positions. So many early players played both ways is why they did that. A guy would play both OC and DT......and like Sammy Baugh, he would play QB and then go play safety....and also punt. But I don't know if WWII is the cutoff.....example: Chuck Bednarik. But that does NOT mean that their careers should be counted as non-existent....like it seems that some of these assburgers here want to do. I never said they didn't count, or didn't exist. By current NFL standards, it was a long time ago in a galaxy far away. Look up the stats of Van Brocklin, Baugh, and Graham. They're pretty average (55% completions, 70-80 qbrs) compared to any of today's top quaterbacks. Jim Brown was great in his era, but he was running over runt defenders. IIRC, Geno Marchetti was the first DL to top 300 pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ous Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 Is it me, or is there a lot of dick and cock talk on this board? It's even rubbed off on me. See I just did it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 hour ago, hoorta said: I never said they didn't count, or didn't exist. By current NFL standards, it was a long time ago in a galaxy far away. Look up the stats of Van Brocklin, Baugh, and Graham. They're pretty average (55% completions, 70-80 qbrs) compared to any of today's top quaterbacks. Jim Brown was great in his era, but he was running over runt defenders. IIRC, Geno Marchetti was the first DL to top 300 pounds. Look at Bradshaw, Stabler, Staubach, Namath. Starr, etc. even Montana, Marino, Elway. Compared to todays top QBs. Don't you get it...they have changed the rules to favor the QBs today. It is not that these guys are any better really....its just that they are far more protected. .....And to a certain extent, far more likely to dink and dunk, so yea, completion pcts. will be a lot better. And Jim Brown would have run over today's defenders as well as any RB playing today. Even then he was bigger, stronger, faster than the RBs playing today. 6'2 232. Gurley 6'1 231. Elliott 6.0 225. And look at the career leaders in passer rating: nk Player Rate Years Tm 1 Aaron Rodgers 103.4 2005-2018 gnb 2 Russell Wilson 100.1 2012-2018 sea 3 Drew Brees 97.8 2001-2018 2TM 4 Tom Brady 97.6 2000-2018 nwe 5 Tony Romo 97.1 2004-2016 dal 6 Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999 2TM 7 Peyton Manning 96.5 1998-2015 2TM 8 Philip Rivers 96.0 2004-2018 sdg 9 Kirk Cousins 94.6 2012-2018 2TM Matt Ryan 94.6 2008-2018 atl 11 Ben Roethlisberger Only Steve Young played before the 2000s. So, that particular stat is skewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Ous said: Is it me, or is there a lot of dick and cock talk on this board? It's even rubbed off on me. See I just did it again. You need to bring your virility and testosterone when you come in here, matey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted December 11, 2018 Report Share Posted December 11, 2018 4 hours ago, hoorta said: I never said they didn't count, or didn't exist. By current NFL standards, it was a long time ago in a galaxy far away. Look up the stats of Van Brocklin, Baugh, and Graham. They're pretty average (55% completions, 70-80 qbrs) compared to any of today's top quaterbacks. Jim Brown was great in his era, but he was running over runt defenders. IIRC, Geno Marchetti was the first DL to top 300 pounds. Not Marchetti, it was probably Big Daddy Liscomb from that DLine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 13, 2018 Report Share Posted December 13, 2018 On 12/11/2018 at 12:42 PM, hoorta said: Look up the stats of Van Brocklin, Baugh, and Graham. They're pretty average (55% completions, 70-80 qbrs) compared to any of today's top quaterbacks. Jim Brown was great in his era, but he was running over runt defenders. IIRC, Geno Marchetti was the first DL to top 300 pounds. For one thing the football of the early era was nowhere near the dart it is today... much "rounder" and harder to grip. Then there are the rules and the coverages to consider. On 12/11/2018 at 5:29 PM, Dutch Oven said: Not Marchetti, it was probably Big Daddy Liscomb from that DLine. Pretty sure neither Big Daddy or Art Donovan, another famously rotund DT who played for the Colts, ever played at 300. I think Detroit's Roger Brown was the first DT to top 300 regularly and play at a high level. 300#-ers were around in the 50's (even Paul Brown had one, I forget the name), but were more of a novelty. Read an article once that as recently as 1970 there was only one player in the NFL to top 300. Reminds me of a Chuck Noll quote that filled the screen while the old PC game, NFL Head Coach, loaded. Went something like... "Some coaches pray for wisdom. I pray for 270 pound Offensive Tackles... they'll make me seem wise." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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