Where are our weaknesses now?

[domcucch1994]

Run defense needs work..

Add another DT to compliment Larry

Our LBers could use some more depth

Oline could use more depth. Same with the secondary.

Add another playmaker at WR, and i think we will be in good shape

[TexasAg1969]

Punt coverage is the greatest weakness.

[flyingfooldoug]

Give me playmakers or give me depth!

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

9 hours ago, Realplayer said:

Schobert got to go. He gets blocked and gives up big runs. He isn't good in coverage. He isn't a vocal leader on the field which the D needs from its MLB. He's what Worrilow was for ATL before they drafted Deion Jones. Gets a lot of tackles but can't cover. 

What are you smoking? 

Joe Schobert is the best linebacker on the team and is bound to make his second straight pro bowl. And excels in pass coverage. He’s also the “quarterback” of the defense.

Idk where or what your comment was based from.

[The Gipper]

9 hours ago, Realplayer said:

Schobert got to go. He gets blocked and gives up big runs. He isn't good in coverage. He isn't a vocal leader on the field which the D needs from its MLB. He's what Worrilow was for ATL before they drafted Deion Jones. Gets a lot of tackles but can't cover. 

I'd love to see a solid DT alongside Ojunobi. Pressure these QBs in interior and edges rushing all four DL instead of relying on blitzing and get killed running zone. 

I think you have your head squarely up your ass....because you surely are not watching the same game as the rest of us.  Schobert is why the Browns run defense is playing so much better than it did when he was out.  I don't know if he is good in coverage....but I don't think he is any worse than any of our other LBs.  And vocal leader? I think that is exactly what he is.  Maybe his is not  wild crazy stupid asshole, but he is a leader.  What do you want of him....to do some wild gyrating dance all the time ala  Ray Lewis?   You can be a leader without acting like your hair is on fire.   Teddy Roosevelt said "talk softly and carry a big stick".   Schobert has a big stick......because with him out we just had twigs going on there.

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, domcucch1994 said:

Run defense needs work..

Add another DT to compliment Larry

Our LBers could use some more depth

Oline could use more depth. Same with the secondary.

Add another playmaker at WR, and i think we will be in good shape

I agree with all this....but the dude that said that Schobert must go does not seem to know a cabbage fart about football.

[The Gipper]

23 minutes ago, flyingfooldoug said:

Give me playmakers or give me depth!

Thanks, Patrick.

[Ghoolie]

5 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I hear ya, Ghoolie, I really do, and I wasn't pleased at first either with our second half offense, BUT when I re-watched the game, I found I wasn't as upset with our playcalling as I was upset with our DEFENSE. 

Why? Simple....they didn't get us the ball back! Sure, we had that one relatively conservative 3 and out where we went run, run, pass, punt. However, you're playing against the worst rush defense in the league, right? So it's not an AWFUL idea to try and run it. Our defense did NOT do their jobs in the second half, and a lot had to do with PENALTIES. Stupid, game-changing penalties. Late hits, unnecessary roughness, offsides....ALL on crucial downs! Even on the game-clinching 4th down incompletion, Myles Garrett was probably offsides. It was 4th and 4, and that would have given Bengals 1st and goal. Now, obviously it wasn't called, but still...it's an example of how our defense wasn't disciplined in the 2nd half. 

I'm not saying I completely disagree with you, but I wanted to point out that our defense really didn't give us too many possessions in the 2nd half. I mean, without that high snap which lead to a TD, that game has a different feel. Freddie Kitchens is new, and let's face it, playing with a LEAD is new. We're figuring things out, and we still won by 15! On the road, in a division game. 

Celebrate with me, brotha man! 

When you have scored 35 points PASSING........why would you need the run?

What reason is there for switching a game.plan that put 35 points up in less.than 3 quarters?

Now, if the plan GOING IN was to run because the Bengas suck at stopping the run? Sure that makes sense.....BUT......who the Fauhck looks at their day, puts 35 points up.in less.than 3 quarters and says to themselves......."We need to make an adjustment"?

This was.the stupidest coaching imaginable. You don't switch sometjing that is not just working, but is working flawlessly. Total.coacjong failure Totally disgusting.

[Ghoolie]

7 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

In NFL terms, isn’t a 15 point win considered  decisive win? Most games are decided by less than 7. We win by 15 and it’s Waaaaaaaaaa waaaaaa waaaa. It wasn’t enough.  

 My opinion of ghoofie has changed. 

Candyass

Well, the so called "experts" are agreeing with me, and even the Cleveland media, and Doug Dieken is calling out the Browns for letting up on the gas.

The win was great......HOWEVER.....the Browns coaching gave the Bengals ppportunities to get back in the game. Had AJ green played, that 35 points would not have been enough.

The Browns lacked killer instinct and if they play that qay late against the better teams they will lose games that they should have won.

Not a good second half. Not at all.

[domcucch1994]

23 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

Well, the so called "experts" are agreeing with me, and even the Cleveland media, and Doug Dieken is calling out the Browns for letting up on the gas.

The win was great......HOWEVER.....the Browns coaching gave the Bengals ppportunities to get back in the game. Had AJ green played, that 35 points would not have been enough.

The Browns lacked killer instinct and if they play that qay late against the better teams they will lose games that they should have won.

Not a good second half. Not at all.

They were conservative in the 2nd half. They should of went full boar and really put the game away..

BUT..

 

They won, and they didn't lose in the fashion that were used to seeing them lose, which was refeshing.

 

They closed it out,

but I wouldn't have that same kind of mindset if we go up big on a better opponent.

[domcucch1994]

56 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I agree with all this....but the dude that said that Schobert must go does not seem to know a cabbage fart about football.

I like Schobert..

Collins is replaceable though.

[jiggins7919]

24 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

When you have scored 35 points PASSING........why would you need the run?

What reason is there for switching a game.plan that put 35 points up in less.than 3 quarters?

Now, if the plan GOING IN was to run because the Bengas suck at stopping the run? Sure that makes sense.....BUT......who the Fauhck looks at their day, puts 35 points up.in less.than 3 quarters and says to themselves......."We need to make an adjustment"?

This was.the stupidest coaching imaginable. You don't switch sometjing that is not just working, but is working flawlessly. Total.coacjong failure Totally disgusting.

I agree with you to SOME extent, but it's also important to remember that we didn't exactly get that many possessions in the second half, did we?  I don't have the numbers on me, but I don't recall too many times when we had the ball.  I realize our first possession in the second half wasn't good at all, but I don't have an issue with the run, run, pass.  Would I have preferred a play-action on 1st down?  Yeah, I would have, but my problem in the second half isn't with our offense or the playcalling. 

My problem is that the defense didn't get the Bengals off the field, and at least TWICE it was because of bone-headed penalties.  Our offensive players couldn't get into a rhythm because they were hardly out there.  I don't expect defensive shutouts, but I do NOT like huge mistakes, and we had plenty.  For one, Myles Garrett misses a sack on 2nd and 20 when he had Dalton's jersey, but couldn't finish the play.  Dalton ran for 20 yards, and the Bengals would score a TD before halftime.  Granted, Myles was being held like crazy on that play, but he's GOT to bring Dalton down there.  Also, Denzel Ward had a costly penalty that I believe gave the Bengals a first down after a failed 3rd down attempt.  The penalty was just so dumb and out of character for Ward.  Then the worst one, Genard Avery, wiped away an interception and gave the Bengals a first down, which I believe lead them to a TD.  

Great win, and we've got some things to work on for next week!

[Kvoethe]

Ghoolie

[Realplayer]

13 hours ago, The Gipper said:

I think you have your head squarely up your ass....because you surely are not watching the same game as the rest of us.  Schobert is why the Browns run defense is playing so much better than it did when he was out.  I don't know if he is good in coverage....but I don't think he is any worse than any of our other LBs.  And vocal leader? I think that is exactly what he is.  Maybe his is not  wild crazy stupid asshole, but he is a leader.  What do you want of him....to do some wild gyrating dance all the time ala  Ray Lewis?   You can be a leader without acting like your hair is on fire.   Teddy Roosevelt said "talk softly and carry a big stick".   Schobert has a big stick......because with him out we just had twigs going on there.

Yes, he's an upgrade to what CLE had while he's out but he's average. Some CLE fans overrate him. Kuechly isn't like Ray Lewis but he has a presence. He is literally a quarterback on defense. Sideline to sideline. Deion Jones - he isn't Ray Lewis either but he sets the tone with his plays and you have to account for him. Schobert, this guy making tackles down the field, getting escorted by offensive linemen while RBs gash CLE for big yardage. Seen it in several games. He isn't trash but let's not act like he's special.

[Realplayer]

14 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

What are you smoking? 

Joe Schobert is the best linebacker on the team and is bound to make his second straight pro bowl. And excels in pass coverage. He’s also the “quarterback” of the defense.

Idk where or what your comment was based from.

The LB core sucks. Avery had potential. Others can go. Pro Bowl isn't anything special. Get All-Pro. Players drops out of Pro Bowls all the time and not just because they're in the SB. They got to fill the rosters somehow. All-Pro different criteria. Writers vote, not fans. Fans vote Pro Bowl and can vote multiple times and yeah his tackle numbers look impressive but they should be high when you making tackles down the field and jumping on piles instead of getting them in the backfield. Run D numbers have went down compared to last year. He sucks at pass coverage. I've watched a lot of him. 

[Realplayer]

19 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I hear ya, Ghoolie, I really do, and I wasn't pleased at first either with our second half offense, BUT when I re-watched the game, I found I wasn't as upset with our playcalling as I was upset with our DEFENSE. 

Why? Simple....they didn't get us the ball back! Sure, we had that one relatively conservative 3 and out where we went run, run, pass, punt. However, you're playing against the worst rush defense in the league, right? So it's not an AWFUL idea to try and run it. Our defense did NOT do their jobs in the second half, and a lot had to do with PENALTIES. Stupid, game-changing penalties. Late hits, unnecessary roughness, offsides....ALL on crucial downs! Even on the game-clinching 4th down incompletion, Myles Garrett was probably offsides. It was 4th and 4, and that would have given Bengals 1st and goal. Now, obviously it wasn't called, but still...it's an example of how our defense wasn't disciplined in the 2nd half. 

I'm not saying I completely disagree with you, but I wanted to point out that our defense really didn't give us too many possessions in the 2nd half. I mean, without that high snap which lead to a TD, that game has a different feel. Freddie Kitchens is new, and let's face it, playing with a LEAD is new. We're figuring things out, and we still won by 15! On the road, in a division game. 

Celebrate with me, brotha man! 

I agree with you. I'll give Kitchens the benefit of the doubt. What scares me about the conservative 2nd half playcalling is if CLE gets a hot start against a team like HOU on Sunday, HOU is a very good team on both sides of the ball and it ends up like ATL-NE SB. 

CLE's D is still work in progress, not great but not garbage. It's just they aren't elite at stopping the pass or the run which they need to be at one if they want to take the team to another level. They're good at takeaways and when the blitzing and zone D works they're nasty but a good QB could get the ball out quick and take advantage of that. Would love next season to have the personnel just to rush 4 all the time like JAX did last season and play man. DBs are definitely more talented than last season. Would love a front 7 overhaul.

[flyingfooldoug]

16 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Thanks, Patrick.

He said death. Check the meaning

[jiggins7919]

3 hours ago, Realplayer said:

I agree with you. I'll give Kitchens the benefit of the doubt. What scares me about the conservative 2nd half playcalling is if CLE gets a hot start against a team like HOU on Sunday, HOU is a very good team on both sides of the ball and it ends up like ATL-NE SB. 

CLE's D is still work in progress, not great but not garbage. It's just they aren't elite at stopping the pass or the run which they need to be at one if they want to take the team to another level. They're good at takeaways and when the blitzing and zone D works they're nasty but a good QB could get the ball out quick and take advantage of that. Would love next season to have the personnel just to rush 4 all the time like JAX did last season and play man. DBs are definitely more talented than last season. Would love a front 7 overhaul.

Myles, Ogunjobi, Ogbah (stellar against the run), Avery, Schobert, and probably Kirskey....can stay. Kirskey wasn't having a great season before injury, but he's earned the right to come back. He's has multiple good seasons, and he's also the heart and soul of our defense. His energy is infectious, and his injury shouldn't affect his speed. I want him back. Collins needs to go, I think we know that now. 

So what do we need on the front 7? Possibly DE help in the form of pass rusher. We can't forget that we drafted DE Chad Thomas in like the 3rd round this year, so hopefully he's a contributer. We obviously need linebacker, and I'm not sure what's available in the draft. 

After watching game again (so fun), there's something else our defense didn't do well. FINISH PLAYS. Now I know I'm tough on Myles Garrett, but I should be. He got a sack, but he missed several others. At the very end, Myles rushes basically untouched and runs right by Driskell. That's not ok. Also, how many INTs did we drop? Carrie? Collins? Ward had one last week? We MUST have those...that's OUR ball, dammit.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

8 hours ago, Realplayer said:

Get All-Pro. Players drops out of Pro Bowls all the time and not just because they're in the SB. They got to fill the rosters somehow. All-Pro different criteria. Writers vote, not fans. Fans vote Pro Bowl and can vote multiple times and yeah his tackle numbers look impressive but they should be high when you making tackles down the field and jumping on piles instead of getting them in the backfield. Run D numbers have went down compared to last year. He sucks at pass coverage. I've watched a lot of him. 

So his best passer coverage grade and under 1 yard per attempt is a fluke?

Scho is only in his second year and looks very promising, Avery is a rookie and is promising as a rusher. 

I’m not sure what game your watching

 

[The Gipper]

9 hours ago, Realplayer said:

Yes, he's an upgrade to what CLE had while he's out but he's average. Some CLE fans overrate him. Kuechly isn't like Ray Lewis but he has a presence. He is literally a quarterback on defense. Sideline to sideline. Deion Jones - he isn't Ray Lewis either but he sets the tone with his plays and you have to account for him. Schobert, this guy making tackles down the field, getting escorted by offensive linemen while RBs gash CLE for big yardage. Seen it in several games. He isn't trash but let's not act like he's special.

OK....so....you expect him to be Ray Lewis or Kuechly?   I will admit that he is not on that level.......but then you are talking about one guy who was the #1 MLB in the league for a 10-12 year period.....and about the guy that basically replaced him as the #1 MLB in the league now for like 5-6 years. 

But, Schobert IS a Pro Bowl caliber MLB.   And a lot of that "gashing" took place when he was out hurt.

[The Gipper]

9 hours ago, Realplayer said:

The LB core sucks. Avery had potential. Others can go. Pro Bowl isn't anything special. Get All-Pro. Players drops out of Pro Bowls all the time and not just because they're in the SB. They got to fill the rosters somehow. All-Pro different criteria. Writers vote, not fans. Fans vote Pro Bowl and can vote multiple times and yeah his tackle numbers look impressive but they should be high when you making tackles down the field and jumping on piles instead of getting them in the backfield. Run D numbers have went down compared to last year. He sucks at pass coverage. I've watched a lot of him. 

OK, here is a clue for you :  ONE player gets chosen to be All Pro at  each position.  ONE.   So, maybe Schobert is not THE single best MLB in the game (you mentioned Kuechly).   But he may be among the best couple or 3 in the AFC.....that is what they take for the Pro Bowl. 

[The Gipper]

6 hours ago, flyingfooldoug said:

He said death. Check the meaning

You were paraphrasing Patrick Henry, weren't you?  Did you even know that?

[jiggins7919]

A lot of Browns fans are high as a kite right now, and why not?  We've got a young, talented group of players, and we've been fun to watch for most of the year.  We've got our QB (finally), tons of cap room, and all of our draft picks (plus some later round ones, minus a 3rd I think).  We've won two in a row, and I thought the way we responded after a bye week was just tremendous.  Here's a team that played their best game since forever and beat the Falcons.  We go into the bye week, and it could've been really easy to lose focus.  To not work as hard.  To come out a little sluggish.  Nope.  Everybody on the team appeared to handle their business during the down time, and we came out with our hair on fire against the Bengals.  

So what are the weaknesses?  Ask me after the Texans game.  I just don't believe gauging our team's progress is easy to do when playing the Bengals and Falcons.  Despite their records, both teams are in definite declines, and I want to say they've both now lost a combined 6 out of their last 8 or something.  Whatever it is, it's not good.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't celebrate our successes, far from it, but I think it's difficult to really see where we are as a team when we're playing teams on the schnide.  

Enter the Texans.  A team definitely NOT on the decline.  I believe they've now won like 7 or 8 in a row or something?  That's just stupid in today's NFL, and I have to believe it's somewhat rare.  They have the physical style of defense that gives most teams absolute fits, and Baker isn't going to have as much time to throw.  I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm guessing they're good against the run, too.  No matter if we win or lose, it'll be great to see how we stack up against the hottest team in the league.  Afterwards, we'll get a great look at what our weaknesses truly are, IMO.  

Right now?  Our punt/kick coverage is EMBARRASSING.  Enough said.  I'd also say that as a team we're not tackling well enough.  For example, Boddy-Calhoun had a chance to drop Mixon in the backfield before half, but completely whiffed him and it resulted in a 35 yard run, and then a TD before half.  Unacceptable.  He had him dead to rights, and must make that play.  Mixon then went on to break another tackle or ten before finally going down.  Another weakness?  How about just finishing off plays?  Myles Garrett missed two sacks, at LEAST, and on one play he basically didn't get touched and let Driskell spin away from him.  All you have to do is wrap him up, you don't have to drill him.  I'm tough on Garrett, and I love him, but that's a play we HAVE to finish.  Speaking of finishing, another weakness is dropping interceptions.  Yeah, I know they play defense for a reason and all that, but how many interceptions have we dropped in the past two games?  Jamie Collins dropped not only an INT, but a PICK-6.  It was not a difficult play, and he would've easily scored.  That's called FINISHING.  Carrie did the same thing, in fact, his may have been easier.  The dang ball bounced right off his chest.  Finish...the...PLAY.  And what about the ridiculous penalties that cost us points and extended drives?  Again, FINISH.  

[TexasAg1969]

3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

You were paraphrasing Patrick Henry, weren't you?  Did you even know that?

I got it right away but was out of emoji ammo for the day.  LOL!😂

[Realplayer]

On 11/27/2018 at 10:35 AM, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

So his best passer coverage grade and under 1 yard per attempt is a fluke?

Scho is only in his second year and looks very promising, Avery is a rookie and is promising as a rusher. 

I’m not sure what game your watching

 

Yes, I talked to a scout about his grades and here's what he told me:

 

"The one major complaint about PFF is that they grade all from a singular point of view whereas each defensive scheme has LBs doing different things. For example the Bucs know none of their LBs can get off of blocks whereas the Panthers LBs displays a lot more block shedding ability. I don't think PfF takes that in to account. Also I think their grades are really reliant on basic math and they give too much credit for a Tackle
No matter where on the field it is. And I think their coverage grade is based on simply how many times a player is targeted and if they give up a catch whereas some LBs are so lock down that they don't even get targeted. Also LBs that truly run downfield in man coverage vs TEs deserve more coverage credit than guys covering a fullback on a curl route."

I don't hate Schobert but I'm not in love with him like some Browns fans are. He can be upgraded. I'm sure he's a smart player but some things you can't teach like speed. I love Avery. Great pick by Dorsey. Get a mike like Devin White, Browns LBs would have the run game covered sideline to sideline. 

[Dutch Oven]

2 minutes ago, Realplayer said:

I don't hate Schobert but I'm not in love with him like some Browns fans are. He can be upgraded. I'm sure he's a smart player but some things you can't teach like speed. I love Avery. Great pick by Dorsey. Get a mike like Devin White, Browns LBs would have the run game covered sideline to sideline. 

Honestly I'm more concerned about Schobert's physicality than I am his speed.

The kid is very smart, and I think he covers a decent amount of ground. I do not think, though, that he's much of a physical presence in the middle. The Browns need to get some beef in front of him on the DLine, to keep him clean. 

[Unsympathetic]

Schobert really improved his coverage this season.. the other LB's are replacement-level.

I have no idea why multiple people in this thread like Avery.. if Avery wasn't the worst edge in the league in coverage he was second worst.  He's good as a backup if he isn't asked to cover in space.

[Realplayer]

On 11/27/2018 at 6:25 AM, jiggins7919 said:

Myles, Ogunjobi, Ogbah (stellar against the run), Avery, Schobert, and probably Kirskey....can stay. Kirskey wasn't having a great season before injury, but he's earned the right to come back. He's has multiple good seasons, and he's also the heart and soul of our defense. His energy is infectious, and his injury shouldn't affect his speed. I want him back. Collins needs to go, I think we know that now. 

So what do we need on the front 7? Possibly DE help in the form of pass rusher. We can't forget that we drafted DE Chad Thomas in like the 3rd round this year, so hopefully he's a contributer. We obviously need linebacker, and I'm not sure what's available in the draft. 

After watching game again (so fun), there's something else our defense didn't do well. FINISH PLAYS. Now I know I'm tough on Myles Garrett, but I should be. He got a sack, but he missed several others. At the very end, Myles rushes basically untouched and runs right by Driskell. That's not ok. Also, how many INTs did we drop? Carrie? Collins? Ward had one last week? We MUST have those...that's OUR ball, dammit.

I think comes down to how much financial flexibility Dorsey wants. CLE beat the Jets, Falcons and Bengals without him. Ogbah's nice but you can never have too many good DL.

I'd love a good interior DT alongside Ojunobi. Teams already have to account for Garrett which frees up Ojunobi/Ogbah, imagine another DT, the DL would be like JAX last year. Wouldn't have to rely on blitzing so much, just rush 4. Not all teams have 2 good guards and a good C so that'd be a nightmare for QBs' having pass rushers in their face while trying to avoid the rush from the outside. 

PHI and JAX will be in cap hell. Could pick up a vet like Calais Campbell (may not want to take a paycut), Malik Jackson (Coughlin didn't sign him), Timmy Jernigan or Michael Bennett to add experience and winning to the Browns defense.  

[jiggins7919]

8 hours ago, Realplayer said:

I think comes down to how much financial flexibility Dorsey wants. CLE beat the Jets, Falcons and Bengals without him. Ogbah's nice but you can never have too many good DL.

I'd love a good interior DT alongside Ojunobi. Teams already have to account for Garrett which frees up Ojunobi/Ogbah, imagine another DT, the DL would be like JAX last year. Wouldn't have to rely on blitzing so much, just rush 4. Not all teams have 2 good guards and a good C so that'd be a nightmare for QBs' having pass rushers in their face while trying to avoid the rush from the outside. 

PHI and JAX will be in cap hell. Could pick up a vet like Calais Campbell (may not want to take a paycut), Malik Jackson (Coughlin didn't sign him), Timmy Jernigan or Michael Bennett to add experience and winning to the Browns defense.  

I absolutely love the idea of a nasty DT alongside of Ogunjobi.  That's a serious handful, especially with Avery at LB during passing downs.  Yeesh.

[LBC mike]

I think Dorsey will solidify the d in free agency next year.  There are young FA on d.

 

http://nfltraderumors.co/top-25-2019-nfl-free-agents-list/