Baker shaded Haley hard after the game.....

[Clevfan4life]

Just now, jcam222 said:

I’d prefer to revel in the fact we dominated the Falcons in every aspect of the game and kicked their a$$. 

and that we did. Now its time to talk about the next opponent, not about how the browns just took their first step in this years road to the SB. Although the phrase "the road to the SB runs through cleveland" has a nice feel to it......i hope we can say that in the years to come

[The Gipper]

13 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

and that we did. Now its time to talk about the next opponent, not about how the browns just took their first step in this years road to the SB. Although the phrase "the road to the SB runs through cleveland" has a nice feel to it......i hope we can say that in the years to come

Got the Bye in between, no?   

Bengals on 11/25......then  Dumb butt Texans......a game that I will be attending.

[flyingfooldoug]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Got the Bye in between, no?   

Bengals on 11/25......then  Dumb butt Texans......a game that I will be attending.

And with our current crop of characters, we can win that game. Both actually. 

[jcam222]

1 hour ago, flyingfooldoug said:

And with our current crop of characters, we can win that game. Both actually. 

Exactly both very winnable games. Honestly we are a pretty damn good team who lost a lot of close ones. I’d speculate our record would be much better if they’d have canned Hue and Haley sooner. 

[gumby73]

7 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Got the Bye in between, no?   

Bengals on 11/25......then  Dumb butt Texans......a game that I will be attending.

Bye next weekend...than Browns could tie the lions, for the worst road winless streak at Bengals..next up .. at Houston would be a new nfl road losing streak record.. Williams & Kitchens can only help their resume by putting this road losing streak to a end also... watching the tape to what the Saints did at Bengals seems like a good start at our Bye week.Bengals just fired their DC today,which Marvin Lewis is taking over. AJ Green still being out also could help..  

[Canton Dawg]

6 hours ago, hx214 said:

My next t-shirt. . .

 

[stillmotion]

10 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Hue said that AFTER the Tampa game, a game in which more terrible offensive playcalls were made. He said he was gonna start to help out. 

These playcalls were in OVERTIME:

1: double screen as drive starter.

 Result: holding, 10 yard penalty.

2. Run play in striking distance on first down after a turnover.

its all bygones now, but your making stuff up talking like that. And your last statement is a FACT.

Making stuff up? Hue said during the presser already that Haley had to get his plays approved by Hue. What if Hue rejected a Haley play? That's control. Any more control Hue would take playcalling back or relegate Haley into being a coffee fetcher. Hue wanted more control and influence on the plays after that day but had influence on them before. Nothing is being made up, those are his direct words. You can't blame every Offensive problem on Haley when Hue "I'm the Captain" was talking down to him, and won one game in two years. Who knows how much he was critiquing Haley's plays? Haley was a scapegoat for Hue to take back the offense and to get another year. Hue ended up doing that and pitching it to Jimmy he needed more control of the offense. Haley probably did the opposite and said he couldn't call his offense with Hue breathing down his neck and having to approve all of his plays. Discord did happen, regardless of what Hue said.

Haley sucked for us, but Hue did as well, and both of their Ego's got in the way of us succeeding. I think it's unfair to blame everything of the offense on Haley when Hue was the captain and we have no idea how much influence he had in what they did. I know for sure him and Todd were arguing about what to do and Todd went over him. Who knows if that time he did, it helped our O or hurt it.

[Tour2ma]

On 11/11/2018 at 7:14 PM, stillmotion said:

I think Baker and the O have more control over the plays now.

Same impression crossed my mind today... that Baker is now involved in the game-planning. It would stand to reason that his QB Coach would best know what he was most comfortable doing, but given the battle between Hue n Haley there was no opening for "outside" input.

23 hours ago, stillmotion said:

It was completely a battle between Hue and Haley. Haley had to get all of his plays "approved" by Hue. When Hue wouldn't approve them, he would sometimes do the opposite of what Hue instructed.

Was this reportedly  in-game?

[stillmotion]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

Same impression crossed my mind today... that Baker is now involved in the game-planning. It would stand to reason that his QB Coach would best know what he was most comfortable doing, but given the battle between Hue n Haley there was no opening for "outside" input.

Was this reportedly  in-game?

Hue was avoiding directly answering specifics about it during the presser when journalists were prying, just said the "system" they had was that Haley would draw up plays and then Hue would have to approve of the plays in order to use them gameday. I assume they probably did them before gameday, and Haley and Hue had a different way of running the offense, resting players during practice, and pretty much everything. Haley probably took some shots or did some plays Hue didn't like, and then the discord happened i'm betting. Haley might've been pissed Hue used a conservative approach, and didn't go for it on 4th and short many times.

Hue and Haley seemed to like players fitting into their system, but it seems like Freddie is letting their strengths play on the system now. I wish Hue and Haley didn't have such massive ego's. 

[Tour2ma]

23 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

im ok with the shakespeare act, the other one....nit so much

As posted elsewhere... exact opposite here.

3rd play of the game... 3rd and 1... I want to set the tone for the game not get cute.

22 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

lets take a step.back before we annoint this a SB team, "again". They played well against a team that likely thought the Browns had thrown the towel in for the season. Rem how high we were before the cgargers came to town taking us seriously? The browns got stomped.

More than the visitors' seriousness was in play here. LAC is simply a much better team.

ATL was missing their best back and their D, which has had issues generating a pass rush for two ts 2nd season in a row, lost its 3rd DB.

[Tour2ma]

23 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

The announcers kept talking about how Mayfield looked decisive, but it goes beyond that. The whole offense looks more decisive, it just seems to move downhill. The players look like they understand what they are expected to do, and play like it. Pass plays don't put Mayfield in position to get drilled constantly, and they are designed well and GASP! receivers actually seem to be able to get schemed open. It's night and day. 

... and the Falcons' D...

23 hours ago, LondonBrown said:

Saw a quote on twitter that Kitchens had asked Baker and the offensive line for their five most favourite plays in the book 

Ah.... so more than just Baker's input... cool...

[Tour2ma]

11 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I don't have stats to back it up, but my eyes tell me we're not running NEAR as many 7 step drops. The vast majority of the passes seem to come out on the 3rd or 5th step. Props to the receivers for getting open, and of course CATCHING it. Also, our OL isn't asked to block as long, and this shows up in our sacked numbers. Wow, who would've thunk it? Of course, we did an excellent job of not getting far behind the sticks, and this makes it easier to avoid the longer drop backs, and it's a credit to our coaches and players to really work on our penalties and our execution. Yeah, we've played some rather poor defenses, but it's still wonderful to see our team make some progress and be fun to watch! 

How many snaps was Baker under Center?

 

[Dutch Oven]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

... and the Falcons' D...

Sure, going against the Falcons D doesn't hurt.

But you know what... how many good defenses are there? Especially if you consider the "elite" teams this season. New Orleans? Nope. Kansas City? Nyet. Rams? They've been getting gouged on the regular lately. 

[Tour2ma]

11 minutes ago, stillmotion said:

Hue was avoiding directly answering specifics about it during the presser when journalists were prying, just said the "system" they had was that Haley would draw up plays and then Hue would have to approve of the plays in order to use them gameday. I assume they probably did them before gameday, and Haley and Hue had a different way of running the offense, resting players during practice, and pretty much everything. Haley probably took some shots or did some plays Hue didn't like, and then the discord happened i'm betting. Haley might've been pissed Hue used a conservative approach, and didn't go for it on 4th and short many times.

Hue and Haley seemed to like players fitting into their system, but it seems like Freddie is letting their strengths play on the system now. I wish Hue and Haley didn't have such massive ego's. 

Agree on the force fitting and egos.

I don't think that the HC approving a play list as the game plan comes together on Monday is unusual... especially when the HC comes from the Offensive side of the game.

But then most HCs hire their own OCs...

[jiggins7919]

13 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

How many snaps was Baker under Center?

 

That's a good question, and I don't know the answer. 

[Tour2ma]

8 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Sure, going against the Falcons D doesn't hurt.

But you know what... how many good defenses are there? Especially if you consider the "elite" teams this season. New Orleans? Nope. Kansas City? Nyet. Rams? They've been getting gouged on the regular lately. 

OBJ TD! Just won a FFL match up!

But I digress....

NO is the best of those you listed and they are getting better with each week. But really good Ds this season??? In no particular order...

• MN
• CHI... that's 2 from the black n blue...
• Ravens
• Titans

Honorable mention to the 'Skins and Texans.

 

[stillmotion]

30 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Agree on the force fitting and egos.

I don't think that the HC approving a play list as the game plan comes together on Monday is unusual... especially when the HC comes from the Offensive side of the game.

But then most HCs hire their own OCs...

I mean Hue said he alone handpicked Todd Haley and Gregg Williams, and that he helped picked Dorsey as well. He said Jimmy let him basically be the CEO of the team. Who knows if that's all truthful though? I know Skip Bayless suggested when talking to Hue that Hue was forced to hire an OC, but Hue said that wasn't the case at all and it was all him. Who knows if he's stretching the truth to protect his ego, or if he's fully telling the truth.... 

I do know that if Hue joins the Bengals this season, it'll make me sick.

[Orion]

On 11/11/2018 at 8:59 PM, LondonBrown said:

Saw a quote on twitter that Kitchens had asked Baker and the offensive line for their five most favourite plays in the book 

Heard that earlier in the day.  Great idea by the interim OC.

I play in an old fogey classic rock & roll band...and I'd rather play something simpler, WELL, than play something more intricate and be sloppy(ish).

We need a coach that can coach to the player's strengths!  Instead, we always wind up with guys who wanna be able to say it's 'Their System' is the reason the team wins.  So they 'force' the players to play THEIR way.  Here, these are the plays that I want you to make successful.  Instead of, Here are the plays that will make YOU successful.

Don Shula had Larry Csonka, Jim Kick, Mercury Morris, so he ran the ball down your throat...and had Bob Griese and Paul Warfield to compliment.  -  SB Winner

Don Shula had Dan Marino and the Marks Brothers so he passed you to death.  

----------------

I want DeFlilppo.  

[Tour2ma]

13 hours ago, stillmotion said:

I mean Hue said he alone handpicked Todd Haley and Gregg Williams, and that he helped picked Dorsey as well. He said Jimmy let him basically be the CEO of the team. Who knows if that's all truthful though? I know Skip Bayless suggested when talking to Hue that Hue was forced to hire an OC, but Hue said that wasn't the case at all and it was all him. Who knows if he's stretching the truth to protect his ego, or if he's fully telling the truth.... 

I do know that if Hue joins the Bengals this season, it'll make me sick.

1. Sorry 'bout your sudden illness...

2. Hue said so many self-aggrandizing, self-serving things about his role/power as our HC that his credibility is nil in my book.

[Unsympathetic]

Hue is a typical small-minded leader.. wants to take all credit when anything goes right [even if by chance] but accepts zero blame when it goes sideways and crashes.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

16 hours ago, stillmotion said:

Making stuff up? Hue said during the presser already that Haley had to get his plays approved by Hue. What if Hue rejected a Haley play? That's control. Any more control Hue would take playcalling back or relegate Haley into being a coffee fetcher. Hue wanted more control and influence on the plays after that day but had influence on them before. Nothing is being made up, 

Haley sucked for us, but Hue did as well, and both of their Ego's got in the way of us succeeding. I think it's unfair to blame everything of the offense on Haley when Hue was the captain and we have no idea how much influence he had in what they did. I know for sure him and Todd were arguing about what to do and Todd went over him. Who knows if that time he did, it helped our O or hurt it.

AFTER THE TAMPA GAME.

[MDDawg]

On 11/12/2018 at 11:53 AM, jcam222 said:

I’d prefer to revel in the fact we dominated the Falcons in every aspect of the game and kicked their a$$. 

Agree, no one was picking us to win this game except Tony Grossi. I was at the game and it ROCKED!!

[lodilobo]

My guess at what happened, is that at the end of last season, Hue was told he had to have an OC to call plays for this season, by Dorsey. Dorsey STRONGLY recommended Haley, and Hue accepted it. Haley and Hue obviously clashed from the beginning. With all the losing, and Hue squirming, Haley, who really wanted the HC job, decided to sabotage the offense by calling plays that were not suited to the players, figuring Hue would be fired, and he would be in line for the job. Haley had to be shocked, when he was called in to Dorsey's office soon after Hue was fired....thinking he was about to be named interim HC, but walked out unemployed. Dorsey is a little smarter than Haley counted on. He saw right through Haley's plan. None of this matters now, thank God. 

[MDDawg]

9 minutes ago, lodilobo said:

My guess at what happened, is that at the end of last season, Hue was told he had to have an OC to call plays for this season, by Dorsey. Dorsey STRONGLY recommended Haley, and Hue accepted it. Haley and Hue obviously clashed from the beginning. With all the losing, and Hue squirming, Haley, who really wanted the HC job, decided to sabotage the offense by calling plays that were not suited to the players, figuring Hue would be fired, and he would be in line for the job. Haley had to be shocked, when he was called in to Dorsey's office soon after Hue was fired....thinking he was about to be named interim HC, but walked out unemployed. Dorsey is a little smarter than Haley counted on. He saw right through Haley's plan. None of this matters now, thank God. 

Didn't Haslam fire Haley?

[lodilobo]

Yes.....what is your point?

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, lodilobo said:

My guess at what happened, is that at the end of last season, Hue was told he had to have an OC to call plays for this season, by Dorsey. Dorsey STRONGLY recommended Haley, and Hue accepted it. Haley and Hue obviously clashed from the beginning. With all the losing, and Hue squirming, Haley, who really wanted the HC job, decided to sabotage the offense by calling plays that were not suited to the players, figuring Hue would be fired, and he would be in line for the job. Haley had to be shocked, when he was called in to Dorsey's office soon after Hue was fired....thinking he was about to be named interim HC, but walked out unemployed. Dorsey is a little smarter than Haley counted on. He saw right through Haley's plan. None of this matters now, thank God. 

Plausible, but not likely.  I think Haley and Hue just clashed on philosophy and that this shotgun marriage didn't work. 

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, MDDawg said:

Didn't Haslam fire Haley?

Yes, but I think he did so at the vehement behest of Dorsey.

[jcam222]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Yes, but I think he did so at the vehement behest of Dorsey.

What do you base this on? I had not seen any reports of Dorsey protesting eliminating Haley. I get the impression Dorsey was tired of the cowpoop from both of them and the division it was creating. 

[ATOM]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Yes, but I think he did so at the vehement behest of Dorsey.

gotta find that haslems suck thread

[The Gipper]

51 minutes ago, jcam222 said:

What do you base this on? I had not seen any reports of Dorsey protesting eliminating Haley. I get the impression Dorsey was tired of the cowpoop from both of them and the division it was creating. 

You just made my point