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CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS

3-4 defense....

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32 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I like peppers at SS. But he only had 1 INT in college... He can HIT and has great tackling ability. Seems like more of an SS. D Randall has been the free safety, he does have decent ball skills; but isn’t an elite FS. Imagine if we had Earl Thomas?..... Cleveland would love Earl Thomas.

My bad.....I forgot that they moved Peppers.   I would say he is doing better....but he won't be mistaken for anything like a Pro Bowl caliber DB...which is what we expected to get out of a first rounder.

DQ was lame? He was the best tackler at the LB position we’ve had. Too bad the rest of the team was usually bad.

I did not stutter, did I?   DQ was lame....and maybe he was the leader of a lame defense, but he was a lame leader.  AGain, he could make some tackles after the other team gained 6-8-10 yards.  He was almost always out of position.  He was never there to fill gaps in the line to stop the other team short.  Compared to his contemporary at the same position, Ray Lewis,  DQ was creampuff defender.

Anyway, bend what don’t break was my point, the defense breaks, a lot. And is pretty bad in the red zone.

The Titans, Ravens, Bears, Texans, are among the leaders in fewest big plays. Browns? Second to worst.

I would not argue that. This defense seems not to be able to cover the other teams WRs....and they make up for it by not being able to tackle either.

 

 

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On 11/4/2018 at 6:37 PM, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Why not? The defense can’t get much worse than it has been. 

Please don't tell the truth about Greg Williams Alter Schweizer defense. Haven't you heard? Flugel said Williams was going to have the D whipped up into a frenzy? Whipped Cream with a Zumba instructor dancing around like a Hooters waitress. The D is honestly and indeed, not that good. I predicted Williams D would be far more QB aggressive but undisciplined, Perhaps he needs a couple more players, BUT................. why don't we have better players ? We are 59 million under the cap, and we have Dorsey. D'uh, THIS is the improvement we are supposed to be excited about?

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10 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

Please don't tell the truth about Greg Williams Alter Schweizer defense. Haven't you heard? Flugel said Williams was going to have the D whipped up into a frenzy? Whipped Cream with a Zumba instructor dancing around like a Hooters waitress. The D is honestly and indeed, not that good. I predicted Williams D would be far more QB aggressive but undisciplined, Perhaps he needs a couple more players, BUT................. why don't we have better players ? We are 59 million under the cap, and we have Dorsey. D'uh, THIS is the improvement we are supposed to be excited about?

When you lose two starting CBs in the first Q you are NOT going to get much from a defense that relies on them to stop the short game long enough to get to the QB. That being said Williams screwed up big time by trying to blitz on 3rd and 20 rather than just keep the play in front of the backside players. Very stupid!

And the Zumba dancer is tied for 3rd with Von Miller and JJ Watt @ 9 sacks for the season. And pressuring the QB is his role in the way Williams runs the D, not stopping the run.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/stats

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I really hope the 4-3 will improve, and that it’s just the injuries/few missing pieces that have inspired this post. 

I wanna stress this again, though: Earl Thomas at free safety.

He plays harder than any safety in the NORTH since Troy P. Of course, his asking price may be too high. But damn, what a potential signing to bolster this defense. 

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45 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I really hope the 4-3 will improve, and that it’s just the injuries/few missing pieces that have inspired this post. 

I wanna stress this again, though: Earl Thomas at free safety.

He plays harder than any safety in the NORTH since Troy P. Of course, his asking price may be too high. But damn, what a potential signing to bolster this defense. 

Probably better than Troy P.   A lot of what Polamalu did was just run around like a chicken with his head cut off with his wild hair flowing.  And people, including you, apparently thought that that was "playing harder" than anyone else.  While he would make the occasional spectacular play....overall I believe his play was basically above average. An Earl Thomas was probably actually significantly better.....if quieter.

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our current 4-3 def played the best team in the nfl with factually a top 5 qb of all time,  to a 3pt loss.

and i disagree that gw doesnt care about stopping the run. He was forced into offseason by dirsey cuts that gutted our run defense in favor of pass rushers that dont pass rush. I really hope dorsey at some point gets made to take accountability fir that.

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3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Probably better than Troy P.   A lot of what Polamalu did was just run around like a chicken with his head cut off with his wild hair flowing.  And people, including you, apparently thought that that was "playing harder" than anyone else.  While he would make the occasional spectacular play....overall I believe his play was basically above average. An Earl Thomas was probably actually significantly better.....if quieter.

Lol you’re salty AF, bro

I didn’t say “anyone else” I said safety in the NORTH.

Thomas probably is better, when he is on the field, which is obviously an issue.

 

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1 hour ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Lol you’re salty AF, bro

I didn’t say “anyone else” I said safety in the NORTH.

Thomas probably is better, when he is on the field, which is obviously an issue.

 

I heard you....and what I said still sticks.   Polamalu's flair may have made it look like he was playing harder, but IMO,  an Ed Reed was much better..and I am not sure he was really any better than TJ Ward.

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On 11/4/2018 at 7:58 PM, Clevfan4life said:

next year could be another blow up cause dirsey wants all his boys here. We've seen that before

It's always about next fuking year.. 

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next year could be another blow up cause dirsey wants all his boys here. We've seen that before

In reality the "blowup" should have happened after last year... Hue should have been axed then and this team should have started clean with "Dorsey's Boys".

This is an instance of where ownership meddles and gets their way to the detriment of the team.

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On 11/5/2018 at 7:01 PM, Clevfan4life said:

ravens were 3-4 tho right? they had sam adams and tony siragusa up the middle which is what made that defense work.....yes, i know ray lewis was a raven. Those two monster 2 gappers let ray track the ball carriers through that line....

imo a very good 43 def is easier to assemble than a 34. U need too many special guys to run a great 34. The SF def when they went to the SB is one of my fav defenses if all time and they're a 34. But they had patrick willis and navarro bowman as ilb'ers. Ahmad brooks and aldon smith as tbe olb'ers.....and the best 5 tech in the league at the time in justin smith. Just a stupidly stacked front 7. They also had a pretty good NT but i cant rem his name right now. 

i really wish we hadnt gotten rid of shelton and meder. Our interior rotation of those two and ogunjobi would have been world bearers to go along with myles on the outside. That would have covered for our deficiency at LDE. 

In 2000 Ravens ran Marvin Lewis' 4-3 base Defense. They went to a 3-4 when he became HC of the Bengals a few years later. 

Both Defenses have pluses and minuses, in my opinion the 4-3 works best and is easier to build. With a 3-4 you need to target specific types of players and at a premium in order to run a great 3-4. Not so much with the 4-3 as the 4-3 Defense is all about creating mismatches, you can scheme situations where you can generate a passrush from either DE spot, the UT spot, SLB, MLB and SS. That is a lot of options you can't get from the 3-4. 

We need to keep the scheme we have and keep adding talent, which again, is easier to do for a 4-3. Look around various rosters and you will see 4-3 Linemen and LBers can be found all over the draft. 

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8 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Probably better than Troy P.   A lot of what Polamalu did was just run around like a chicken with his head cut off with his wild hair flowing.  And people, including you, apparently thought that that was "playing harder" than anyone else.  While he would make the occasional spectacular play....overall I believe his play was basically above average. An Earl Thomas was probably actually significantly better.....if quieter.

Troy P was a poor man's Roy William's, a headhunter with mediocre tackling skills that made a career out of his effeminate hair flowing as he ran around the field lost most of the time and a career out of literally a handful of plays ESPN promoted the Sheet out of. 

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what is the PROBLEM that this solution of a 3-4 defense is supposed to solve?

If you want to stop the run.. we had a pretty good 4-3 defense last season against the run.  And we were much better at matching up on the back end earlier this season when.. our DB's were healthy.

So... is the problem the chalkboard or is the problem the players who are trying to execute the movements on that chalkboard?

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23 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I really hope the 4-3 will improve, and that it’s just the injuries/few missing pieces that have inspired this post. 

I wanna stress this again, though: Earl Thomas at free safety.

He plays harder than any safety in the NORTH since Troy P. Of course, his asking price may be too high. But damn, what a potential signing to bolster this defense. 

A 30 year old safety coming off of a major injury.  Brilliant.  

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On 11/5/2018 at 7:25 PM, TexasAg1969 said:

Don't forget one of the greatest of all time, '86 Bears.

Defense

 

FS
Gary Fencik

 

WLB MLB SLB
Wilber Marshall Mike Singletary Otis Wilson
SS
Dave Duerson
CB
Mike Richardson
 

 

DE DT DT DE
Richard Dent William "Refrigerator" Perry Steve McMichael Dan Hampton
 
CB
Vestee Jackson
Reggie Phillips

Can't talk about the most dominant Defense, the Bears' 46, without mentioning #46, Doug Plank (even tho Duerson was a much better SS) and showing the 46 alignment...

525px-46_green.svg.png

On 11/5/2018 at 9:01 PM, Clevfan4life said:

ravens were 3-4 tho right?

4-3 IIRC... Marvin Lewis, a 4-3 guy, was their DC. Ravens went 3-4 a couple years later when Lewis moved to Cinci and Nolan took the DC job in BLT.

But there are plenty of great 3-4 defenses to choose from including: Parcell's '80's Giants, Wade Phillips' 2015 Broncos, Bum's '80 Oilers.

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Worth noting Wade runs a near exclusive 1-gap philosophy that can look like a 43 odd front with a simple shift.    

The differences between a 1gap, 2gap or blended gap "34" between each other might be greater than Wade Philips vs Gregg Williams save for the personnel and assignment at OLB. 

 

Edit: the great Steelers defenses in the early to late 2000's were primarily 2 gap fronts IIRC.

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Just now, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

I’d take said safety over what we have  had here since 2000

In his prime you'll find few people that loved Earls game more than myself.    Especially since DB is home for me.    But it's just not a good get at this point.  Mileage, cost, health.    If he wasn't hurt I might be all for it.  I know the need for a ball hawk centerfielder and the pick we spent on Peppers and not Malik Hooker was near criminal.    But all in all the return you'll get on the investment doesn't appear to be there. 

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2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

 If he wasn't hurt I might be all for it.  I know the need for a ball hawk centerfielder and the pick we spent on Peppers and not Malik Hooker was near criminal.    But all in all the return you'll get on the investment doesn't appear to be there. 

I like Peppers as a good tackling SS.

Earl was making highlight shoestring INTs this year before he got hurt.

And at 30, he still plays hard. That’s how he broke his leg, flying across the field to break up a pass and kicked his leg full speed. (Coaches should have him tone it down)

He’s just one of those guys I wouldn’t wanna “sleep” on. At least test the waters on a 2 year deal or something.

I get the risk associated and all but he ain’t no slouch, and this defense needs someone like him.

 

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the year the ravens were one of the best defenses of all time im almost 100% positive they were a 3-4....isnt that in 01 when they won the SB?

 

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4 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

the year the ravens were one of the best defenses of all time im almost 100% positive they were a 3-4....isnt that in 01 when they won the SB?

 

2000.  And they were primarily a 4 man front.   Adams, Siragusa, Mcrey and... can't remember the other end...

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whoch year am i tjinking of then when the had suggs and johnson as olb'ers? i thought that was the year they were one of the bestvever

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1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said:

whoch year am i tjinking of then when the had suggs and johnson as olb'ers? i thought that was the year they were one of the bestvever

2012

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23 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

2000.  And they were primarily a 4 man front.   Adams, Siragusa, Mcrey and... can't remember the other end...

McCrary and (former Brown) Rob Burnett...

23 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

whoch year am i tjinking of then when the had suggs and johnson as olb'ers? i thought that was the year they were one of the bestvever

'06 was Suggs rookie year... and they were a great D, #1 overall points and yards, but still a 4-3 and no Johnson.

You may be thinking of '08 and/or '09.

 

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8 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

McCrary and (former Brown) Rob Burnett...

'06 was Suggs rookie year... and they were a great D, #1 overall points and yards, but still a 4-3 and no Johnson.

You may be thinking of '08 and/or '09.

 

You're thinking of Ngata... suggs was on the team for a few years before that. 

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2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

You're thinking of Ngata... suggs was on the team for a few years before that. 

yeah i thought suggs was on there prior to 06. Its still blowing me mind they were a 43 in their best years. I could have swore in the goose and adams years they were a 34. I mean if u basically have two monster 2 gappers like that, find a good 5 tech and run a 3-4. Myles can easily be ur hybrid u only drop in zone coverage and genard "could" be the other olb'er if he can cover. 

The issue is, can either of those two guys tackle in space well enough? its a moot point tho since our DL is full of 1 gappers...

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3 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

You're thinking of Ngata... suggs was on the team for a few years before that. 

Oops... Yup, Suggs was drafted in '03.

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50 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

yeah i thought suggs was on there prior to 06. Its still blowing me mind they were a 43 in their best years. I could have swore in the goose and adams years they were a 34. I mean if u basically have two monster 2 gappers like that

I look at that Dline similar to what Minnesota was trying there for a while with the Williams boys in the middle, Jared Allen and Ray Edwards. 

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