Long term, was keeping Hue for an extra year a smart move for Browns?

[Dutch Oven]

Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.  

Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates? 

Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season?  In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season. 

[Orion]

I thought you meant keeping him for 2019 when reading the headline.

......my heart rate is now returning more towards norm

I still say that if Haslam was thinking of promoting Haley or Williams, now would be a good time to name him 'interim' and kick the tires.

[Ghoolie]

People,

Hue Jackson WILL BE THE HEAD COACH FOR THE 2019-2020 Season.

[TexasAg1969]

57 minutes ago, Ghoolie said:

People,

Hue Jackson WILL BE THE HEAD COACH FOR THE 2019-2020 Season.

That's because for whatever reason .................God hates the Browns.😈

[Nero]

I also thought you were talking about 2019...

I think it works for him because the pressure in his shoulders is minor. Had Denzel or Baker suked big time and we would doubt if it was because Hue was still in charge...

[darren15]

2 hours ago, Ghoolie said:

People,

Hue Jackson WILL BE THE HEAD COACH FOR THE 2019-2020 Season.

Surge in brown paper bag sales then ......

[Zombo]

Yes, we will look more attractive to a potential head coach, and potential free agents after this season because of the talent we are accumulating and a potential franchise QB.

But winning breeds winning. We've got four threads about when to fire Hue and one thread about this week's opponent, which is basically a bunch of funny pictures.

We need to win football games. We need to win this week. We need to be relevant in our division. We need Mayfield and Garrett and Ward and Landry (all under long contracts) to show the world that things are different in Cleveland now. And Chubb, Ogunjobi, Ogbah, Peppers, Nojoku, Calloway ... Make plays, win football games.

Did Hugh make the right decision starting Harrison at LT? Did Dorsey make the right decision acquiring Chris Hubbard for RT? I'll let you know when we start winning.

Were the early season turnovers an anomaly and our defense is going to start getting hosed like it did against SD and the first half against Tampa, or is going to rise up like it did in the second half of Tampa and the first time we played Pittsburgh and Baltimore?

I really don't care if and when Hue gets fired ... He's the coach right now, and right now we need to win football games.

Is it better to go 2-13-1 and attract the "next big name" to come in here and do things "his way" and change the coaching schemes and churn the roster again, or is better to go 8-7- 1 and keep moving forward? Or are we hoping for 6-9-1/5-10-1 ... good enough to show talent, but bad enough to get Hugh fired?

Who gives a fuck. Win the football game. Because you are all fucking losers if you don't win the football game, not just Hugh.

Zombo

[The Gipper]

Well....it is, after all, the Losing that leads to the fire the coach threads.  If the team starts winning, those would likely disappear.  So, yes, I opt for winning.

I also opt for not doing whatever it takes to lose.  And this team, under Hue, always seems to do whatever it takes to lose, no matter how bizarre that thing is sometimes.   Now, clearly, they didn't do that vs. Jets and Ratbirds......but we need to start seeing more of that in order to allow all to have more confidence in this coach  (instead of having to smack our heads and say "WTF is he going to do now that will lose this game for us". 

[jiggins7919]

3 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.  

Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates? 

Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season?  In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season. 

Me too, I thought you meant next year. 

I’m in 100% agreement that Hue should not be fired this year.  Mainly because I’m struggling to think of any time when firing a coach mid-year as EVER worked out well.  I have one example floating around in my mind, but I can’t quite identify it.  There are very few potential upsides to firing Hue this year, but the one that most clearly comes to mind is if we fire Hue and promote Haley to coach, then we could theoretically have our next head coach for the next few years and not have to mess with the whole coaching carousel next year.  Here’s how it works:

We fire Hue Jackson….say…right before the bye.  Todd Haley gets promoted to “interim head coach”, and for the last 6 or 7 games we play better.  We have fewer penalties.  We WIN the close games at the end.  We actually score a freaking TOUCHDOWN in the first quarter.  If our team pulled together under Todd Haley and we finish pretty strong, I could see us keeping him.  And how nice would THAT be?  Keeping the same system, the same players, and our rookie QB doesn’t have to learn an entirely new language and plays.  The players have familiarity with each other, they grow stronger, and instead of learning new stuff, they fine-tune what they already know.  We could keep Gregg Williams, too. 

Hey, I know it’s a long shot, but it’s possible.  More likely John Dorsey will completely clean house, we’ll be stuck searching for a new coach, we’ll have to bring in players to fit a 3-4 defense (because you know the Browns have to alternate every few years), we’ll trade away our big money players because we’ll need to “rebuild”, and we’ll be told to have patience. 

[Mark O]

3 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

Me too, I thought you meant next year. 

I’m in 100% agreement that Hue should not be fired this year.  Mainly because I’m struggling to think of any time when firing a coach mid-year as EVER worked out well.  I have one example floating around in my mind, but I can’t quite identify it.  There are very few potential upsides to firing Hue this year, but the one that most clearly comes to mind is if we fire Hue and promote Haley to coach, then we could theoretically have our next head coach for the next few years and not have to mess with the whole coaching carousel next year.  Here’s how it works:

We fire Hue Jackson….say…right before the bye.  Todd Haley gets promoted to “interim head coach”, and for the last 6 or 7 games we play better.  We have fewer penalties.  We WIN the close games at the end.  We actually score a freaking TOUCHDOWN in the first quarter.  If our team pulled together under Todd Haley and we finish pretty strong, I could see us keeping him.  And how nice would THAT be?  Keeping the same system, the same players, and our rookie QB doesn’t have to learn an entirely new language and plays.  The players have familiarity with each other, they grow stronger, and instead of learning new stuff, they fine-tune what they already know.  We could keep Gregg Williams, too. 

Hey, I know it’s a long shot, but it’s possible.  More likely John Dorsey will completely clean house, we’ll be stuck searching for a new coach, we’ll have to bring in players to fit a 3-4 defense (because you know the Browns have to alternate every few years), we’ll trade away our big money players because we’ll need to “rebuild”, and we’ll be told to have patience. 

The Rams didn't exactly clean house and rebuild.  They brought in new coaches to work with what was perceived as a roster that had talent but that talent wasn't being utilized properly.   Goff was considered a bust.  Gurley shouldn't have been drafted that high.  The team was going nowhere.  That was the perception when Jeff Fisher was the coach and they won 4 games.  New young head coach, bring in Wade Phillips to coach the defense and have a good draft and a couple of new FA's and look what happened last year.  The Rams went to the playoffs without "rebuilding" the roster.   This year they were in a postion to bring in big time free agents and it looks like its worked out pretty well so far.  

A new coach doesn't necessarily rebuilding and having to go through losing seasons again while the team "rebuilds".   It would seem to me that there is talent on this team and the decision behind bringing in a new coach is if ownership feels that the current coaching staff isn't getting the best of the talent that is on the field.

If a change is made, the Rams should be the model for how its done and it doesn't have to be completely torn down again. 

[Clevfan4life]

if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?

[Mark O]

9 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?

No...no one knows that.   Have to wait and see how it all plays out.

[TexasAg1969]

11 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?

You got 4 more in line during the next 9 because I don't see them?

[Zombo]

12 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?

Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut. 

Hue hasn't dropped a pass, missed a tackle, shanked a Fg or had a penalty called on him yet.

These Motherfuckers need to win NOW, Quit letting them hide behind the coaching and hold these motherfucking players accountable, they are the ones who are losing.

It's the fucking NFL. You have an NFL coaching staff. You have NFL facilities. Be better than the other guys.

Coaches get fired because they are coaching losers.

It's up to the players how many games we win. And six out of 16 ain't enough.

If we lose to fucking Pittsburgh I would shoot the poorest performing starter in the kneecap after the game in front of his teammates.

Z

 

[TexasAg1969]

32 minutes ago, Zombo said:

Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut. 

Hue hasn't dropped a pass, missed a tackle, shanked a Fg or had a penalty called on him yet.

These MotherShmuckers need to win NOW, Quit letting them hide behind the coaching and hold these motherShmucking players accountable, they are the ones who are losing.

It's the Shmucking NFL. You have an NFL coaching staff. You have NFL facilities. Be better than the other guys.

Coaches get fired because they are coaching losers.

It's up to the players how many games we win. And six out of 16 ain't enough.

If we lose to Shmucking Pittsburgh I would shoot the poorest performing starter in the kneecap after the game in front of his teammates.

Z

I would venture to say that even Saban would do a hellofalot better with these players than the ones he had last time he tried the pros. Really good coaching can change a lot of things. Hue is not a really good coach. Sad but true.

[Zombo]

1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

I would venture to say that even Saban would do a hellofalot better with these players than the ones he had last time he tried the pros. Really good coaching can change a lot of things. Hue is not a really good coach. Sad but true.

Join the list of pussies making excuses for the players.

This is our most important regular season game in 30 years and they better fucking win it.

Haven't won the season series with Pittsburgh since 1989.

These Motherfuckers need to up their game! I'm sure the veteran coaching staff will be ready. The fucking players need to perform.

Z

[jiggins7919]

1 hour ago, Mark O said:

The Rams didn't exactly clean house and rebuild.  They brought in new coaches to work with what was perceived as a roster that had talent but that talent wasn't being utilized properly.   Goff was considered a bust.  Gurley shouldn't have been drafted that high.  The team was going nowhere.  That was the perception when Jeff Fisher was the coach and they won 4 games.  New young head coach, bring in Wade Phillips to coach the defense and have a good draft and a couple of new FA's and look what happened last year.  The Rams went to the playoffs without "rebuilding" the roster.   This year they were in a postion to bring in big time free agents and it looks like its worked out pretty well so far.  

A new coach doesn't necessarily rebuilding and having to go through losing seasons again while the team "rebuilds".   It would seem to me that there is talent on this team and the decision behind bringing in a new coach is if ownership feels that the current coaching staff isn't getting the best of the talent that is on the field.

If a change is made, the Rams should be the model for how its done and it doesn't have to be completely torn down again. 

It's funny you said the Rams, that's the model I keep hoping and praying we follow.  It's downright bizarre to see Goff as a rookie to the talent he is now.  He literally looked like the worst #1 pick in history as a rookie, and with new coaches....BOOM.  

Perhaps you're right and we can accomplish something similar.  Man, that'd be so fun.  We're an organization that's been ridiculed (and rightly so) for our persistent turnover.  Keeping Hue Jackson made so much sense, it really did.  And the crazy/frustrating thing is, we could so easily be sitting pretty.  Can you imagine the difference in dialogue and fan perception if we just pulled out the Oakland and Bucs game?  Heck, we'd be the feel good story of the year.  But when the chips are down, when we absolutely HAVE to have a play, our team repeatedly falls short.  We had no business losing that Oakland game.  That's a BAD team right there.  Bucs aren't much better.  We manage 2 freaking points (by our dang DEFENSE) in the first half against the worst defense in the universe?  With a new DC?  

You guys remember last year, when a popular sentiment was, "Man, if we just had COMPETENT QB play, we'd have a .500 record!"  Well, right now we have "competent" QB play, and you see it's not enough.  Even with leading the league in turnovers, we can't pull games out because we simply don't score in the first quarter, or second quarter for that matter.  I've stuck up for Hue Jackson long enough.  I just didn't want to envision yet ANOTHER coaching search.  I really thought we finally had "a real coach".  

You guys want the GOOD news?  Make sure you finish chewing your food because I don't want anyone to choke, but the Cleveland Browns will be by far the most attractive head coaching vacancy in the league.  Ok, so clean off your monitors, I think some of you got some spittle on the screen.  Bare with me.  The new coach will have his QB under center.  His dominant edge rusher.  A young core of players at vital positions.  Lots of salary cap room.  Most of his draft picks, except the 3rd rounder (I think).  A somewhat declining division. And an owner who wants to win and win NOW.  I mean it...I really believe that for ONCE...the Cleveland Browns are going to be the hot destination for whichever "must have coach" is out there.  

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Zombo said:

 

If we lose to Shmucking Pittsburgh I would shoot the poorest performing starter in the kneecap after the game in front of his teammates.

Z

 

If only.

[flyingfooldoug]

I will point out that our last six head coaches were axed after a loss to the stealers

[Ghoolie]

3 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

if we win 6 games y'all know hue's staying right?

Hue is staying, no matter that he does the rest of the season.   If he is fired, it won't be until the 2020-21 season. 

[nickers]

8 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

Now, I'm sure some of you have had a stroke, or possibly a series of strokes, after reading the title to this thread.  

Consider this though: If you were John Dorsey, trying to right the ship of one of the most poorly-run franchises in pro sports, what would be an easier sell to potential head coaching candidates? 

Taking over a QB-less team who is coming off a record 1-31 stretch after the 2017 season, or taking off a competitive, young team with an established Baker Mayfield after the 2018 season?  In a way, letting Hue take the bullets this season long term might be the best thing for the Browns, even if it sucks for most of us this season. 

I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..

[Clevfan4life]

zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.

[Zombo]

55 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

zombo's not wrong....some of these players need put on blast esoecially for the goat fukking penalties.

I am in no way a Hugh Jackson "fan" or a Hugh Jackson apologist.

And, I get it, he's an easy target with his record, and fans want his head.

But it seems that the fanbase seems all focused on Hugh now and not the players, and it's the players that have not been good enough.

I sat in the stands in Tampa the other day (and I have a peeling sunburn to prove it) and I don't think I thought of Hue Jackson once.

I thought why does the quarterback not secure the ball once he has a first down? Why is he throwing outlet passes when receivers are free down the field?

Why doesn't our pass pocket hold up longer?

Why do some receivers run lackadaisical routes and others continually drop passes?

Why don't we let the 3rd and longs develop instead of going for the checkdowns so soon?

Why do we miss so many tackles?

Why are some of the guys on Tampa wide open every down?

Where was the pass rush in the first half?

Where was the push from our offensive line on the QB sneak?

Where was the push from our special teams on the 59 yard field goal?

Why can't we make a big play without a penalty or a fumble?

And the answer was never "Hugh Jackson". It was players that were not good enough or not experienced enough.

They need to get bigger quick.

The only time I thought of the coaching staff Sunday was "they need to make adjustments at halftime" ... and they did.

Our players need to play better. They need to be better. I think the Jets are the only team we played where we clearly have more talent. So I think Hue is actually playing with house money this year, because he beat them and then beat and tied two other teams that clearly have better players (Baltimore and Pitt).

We are 5-2 against the spread, and one of those losses was in overtime, so Vegas clearly thinks we are playing above our heads so far this year.

Everyone wants to blame Hue because we are losing close games ... but not give him credit that we are IN close games every single week, with the exception of one.

We've got a bunch of players that need to turn potential in to production, and they need to do it by Sunday, because our organization needs this win.

I have no doubt that Hugh Jackson, Todd Haley and Gregg Williams did not become stupid when they moved to Cleveland, because they all had nice careers beforehand. They are dealing with young horses, injured horses ... but hungry horses ... I have not seen a lack of effort from these guys, nor have I seen anybody that left the system badmouth the coaches.

The coaches are NFL quality. It's time for the players to prove they are.

Zombo

[The Gipper]

Discipline issues. Coaching 

[Zombo]

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Discipline issues. Coaching 

Yep, we are 4th in penalty yards behind KC, Pittsburgh and GB.

Reid, Tomilin and McCarthy ... Bad Coaching.

Z

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

Youngest team in league. Still learning.

[Orion]

9 hours ago, Zombo said:

Well if we don't win six games, every goddamn player on the team needs to be cut. 

C'mon man.   Sashi musta' said that......when he let all of our decent players walk.  "We only won 3 game WITH you guys.  We can't do any worse without ya?"   -  People were saying that (on another board, don't think I was on this one then).....and I kept saying, "No, no.  It CAN get worse.  If we don't keep our decent players it WILL get worse."  

You have to walk before you can run.   We've added some good players.  We're actually somewhat competitive.  EVERYTHING cannot be fixed in one offseason.  

We were 1-31.  Zero wins last year.  We couldn't even CRAWL last year.  This year we're already walking.  Perhaps with another good offseason we'll be able to run next year.

Hue holds us back with his gameday decisions.  He throws everyone under the bus and proclaims his status as HC.  He's a walking contradiction.  -  If we win games it will be because THE PLAYERS overcame the opponent, the officials, and Hue.

[mjp28]

34 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Youngest team in league. Still learning.

People tend to forget that average age 24+ a bunch of guys just out of college ball. They will get better.

BUT they better to put a few wins together or win 5+ or Hue may be gone with the wind.

[Dutch Oven]

8 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

You guys want the GOOD news?  Make sure you finish chewing your food because I don't want anyone to choke, but the Cleveland Browns will be by far the most attractive head coaching vacancy in the league.  Ok, so clean off your monitors, I think some of you got some spittle on the screen.  Bare with me.  The new coach will have his QB under center.  His dominant edge rusher.  A young core of players at vital positions.  Lots of salary cap room.  Most of his draft picks, except the 3rd rounder (I think).  A somewhat declining division. And an owner who wants to win and win NOW.  I mean it...I really believe that for ONCE...the Cleveland Browns are going to be the hot destination for whichever "must have coach" is out there.  

That's pretty much what I was saying too...

The Browns will be a way more attractive job going into next year for everything you said than it would have been if they would have fired Hue after last season. There is no guarantee that the Browns are a contender in the future, but man, the pieces are there. 

[Dutch Oven]

6 hours ago, nickers said:

I see Hue Jackson as more of like our version of Jeff Fisher.. Well liked around the league... Just not a very good Head Coach... I really don't think he'll be back next season..

How Jeff Fisher got as many years as a NFL head coach is one of the great mysteries in life, along with: "What is the purpose of life?", "Where is Jimmy Hoffa bured?" and "What the hell is a Grape Nut?"... And here I thought he was white. 

I see nothing so far this season that would make me think John Dorsey is sitting there going: "You know, I need to see me another season of Hue Jackson"... even though I think Zombo has some good points too. If he makes it the whole season, he'll be let go right after.