Kvoethe Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 And the ref saying it was ok to hit him in the head??? JFC...i cant watch this moronic NFL amymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Mahomes gets a shove in the back running out of bounds and draws a flag. But Mayfield takes the crown of a helmet to his ear hole...and nothing. The NFL has been consistently inconsistent on their interpretations of this rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 How NFL has enforced helmet rule: Warning letters, not flags play 8:25 AM PT Kevin SeifertNFL Nation Facebook Twitter Facebook Messenger Pinterest Email print The Cleveland Browns were livid Sunday afternoon, for all the wrong reasons, when referee Shawn Hochuli picked up a flag for an illegal hit to the head of quarterback Baker Mayfield. Although Mayfield appeared to be giving himself up in a slide, Hochuli ruled that he was in fact still a runner and did not have protection against such hits. "That was different from what I know," Browns coach Hue Jackson said, while No. 1 receiver Jarvis Landry remarked, "Every other quarterback gets that call." ADVERTISEMENT But both the postgame debate and Hochuli's explanation failed to address an entirely different but no less obvious foul. Whether or not Mayfield deserved quarterback protection on the play, Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive back Jordan Whitehead had clearly, without question, violated the new NFL rule prohibiting players from lowering their helmets to initiate contact on an opponent. In real time, at least, no one seemed to notice. Replays showed Whitehead boring the top of his helmet into the side of Mayfield's head -- with a running start, no less -- and utilizing the linear posture that NFL research has shown increases the likelihood of head and neck injuries. Whitehead's hit was so flagrant, and his ability to avoid it so clear, that he might have fit the league's stated criteria for ejection. The foul went unmentioned by the Browns, Hochuli and the broadcast announcing crew, in the process cementing the disappearance of the helmet rule from our national consciousness. The no-call isn't entirely unexpected, though, given how the NFL is implementing the helmet rule. In a highly irregular but understandable approach, the NFL has intentionally delayed enforcement of a major rule, largely because it recognized that immediate and full application would have required an unrealistic adjustment for players. Instead, the league has presented a soft rollout, penalizing players only occasionally to avoid flag-filled games but following up with more-than-occasional fines and dozens of warning letters to players and teams. The warning letters spell out violations that went uncalled, with video, and advise that similar hits will be penalized in the future. "In the offseason it's an easy thing to discuss and an easy thing to put tape to," said Rich McKay, chairman of the NFL competition committee, during a meeting with reporters last week. "But when you actually practice it, it's a totally different thing. Players are still trying to adjust because it's not the natural way that they have played the game over the last five years or in college. … "The one thing we did is go through the tape and say [to officials], 'If you don't see it end to end and don't see all three elements of it, then remember we can fine it on Monday and we can get the conduct corrected.'" Through the first six weeks of the season, officials threw just seven flags for use of helmet fouls but issued 11 fines and sent 65 warning letters. (Through Sunday night's game, there has been only one additional flag. Week 7 fines and warning letters, if any, will go out later this week.) Those numbers suggest the league has allowed about 90 percent of violations to go unaddressed during games. It is not uncommon for the league to fine players for fouls that were not penalized by on-field officials. Nor is it unusual for it to send warning letters. But the size of the differential -- the number of warning letters and fines compared with the number of flags -- is unprecedented in recent league history, according to several people I spoke with who have institutional knowledge of the way the league approaches rule enforcement. The simple explanation is the league has never attempted to eliminate a behavior that had become so ingrained and common in the game. When owners unexpectedly adopted the helmet rule last spring, responding to league research that showed the dangers of a head-down and linear position, officials in the league's football operations department inspected tape of the 2017 season. They estimated the rule would add between 4-5 additional penalties per game if strictly enforced. With all else being equal, the league would see a 31 percent increase in flags over the course of the season. And at 15 yards a pop, total penalty yardage would jump 64 percent. No one wanted that. More importantly, a two-day football summit in May made it clear that players would need time to learn the techniques and develop the muscle memory that would break the habit of lowering their heads ahead of contact. "There are certain things that are incidental contact and just part of this sport," Troy Vincent, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations, said at the time. "There are certain things you just have to live with and be OK with. And then there is the part of our role and responsibility. What do we want to coach out and then the players have to adjust to? Some of these things are more long term. "To think that an individual player will make some of the adjustments between May 1 and the start of the season, when this is what I have done all of my life? That's unrealistic. That's truly unrealistic." The first two weeks of the preseason offered a preview of what could be expected by relatively strict enforcement. Officials threw 51 flags in the first 33 preseason games before the competition committee clarified that it never wanted incidental or inadvertent contact to be called. For 2018, at least, the league wants flags thrown only when an official spots, from start to finish, obvious and intentional instances of a player lowering his helmet and using it for initial and forcible contact. Even with that edict, we've seen some obvious and high-profile plays when the helmet rule could have been called. It seems likely that Whitehead will receive a fine or a warning letter for his hit on Mayfield. Kansas City Chiefs running back Kareem Hunt was fined $26,739 for a contact in Week 4 that he was not penalized for. New England Patriots running back Sony Michel wasn't penalized for contact that gave Indianapolis Colts defensive back Clayton Geathers a concussion in Week 5, but senior vice president Al Riveron later used the play in a public video to demonstrate that it was in fact a foul. This approach makes sense for the purposes of game flow and fairness, but it also raises some fair questions. Why have a rule book if some of its requirements aren't enforced? If administration is selective, does that increase the chance it will favor or hurt particular teams? And if most of the violations have been addressed only in warning letters, should that call into question whether this whole episode has been for show? Has the NFL in essence written a check that it can't cash, simply to appear concerned about the head and neck health of players? I don't think that's the case. The NFL already has provided too much public information about the root of the rule and its enforcement to carry out an effective ruse. At the end of the season and beyond, we'll know via relatively objective numbers whether contact decreased between lowered helmets. The real question is whether the NFL can achieve its goals via warning letters or fines, or if the day will come that we see multiple flags per game, rather than perhaps one for all games of the week combined, to change the behavior. McKay said last week that "we like where the data is starting to take us with helmet impacts" but that full answers will be more apparent at the end of the season when the league compiles and analyzes the data. It typically makes public its annual concussion numbers. In the meantime, Vincent did not rule out stricter enforcement as the weeks go on. "We hope that [through] the education process, that there is greater accountability, so we don’t have to fine," he said. "Players have to get the shoulder in and head out. The helmet is a piece of protective equipment. It's not being used to harm your opponent. We hope we don't have to get there but it's a progression." We knew from the beginning that the NFL was attempting a sizable change with the helmet rule. What we didn't realize was that the league would follow an alternative path to get there. The approach is unusual in its scope and should be employed sparingly with future rule changes, but in this case seems preferable to a massive spike in penalties. Will it work? We'll find out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Mark O said: But both the postgame debate and Hochuli's explanation failed to address an entirely different but no less obvious foul. Whether or not Mayfield deserved quarterback protection on the play, Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive back Jordan Whitehead had clearly, without question, violated the new NFL rule prohibiting players from lowering their helmets to initiate contact on an opponent. In real time, at least, no one seemed to notice. The boldfaced was what I asked my TV yesterday. When the rule came out it was supposed to be in effect for all players, including Offensive players, in all plays, not just for QBs in the pocket and defenseless WRs. I'm still waiting on an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 honestly im ok with that call as long as they give browns players the same benefit of the doubt. I dont want QB's protected that hard. Baker clearly only started to.slide once he saw the guy coming. Had he commited himself to the slide a shade early. he might have drawn a flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said: honestly im ok with that call as long as they give browns players the same benefit of the doubt. I dont want QB's protected that hard. Baker clearly only started to.slide once he saw the guy coming. Had he commited himself to the slide a shade early. he might have drawn a flag. The problem is when you see calls like the one on Mahomes last night where he was pushed from behind when he was maybe a yard or so out of bounds and that draws a flag. He didn't even fall down from it. There was no chance of him being hurt on the play whereas the play with Baker could've ended the game for both players and thats what they're trying to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Mark O said: The problem is when you see calls like the one on Mahomes last night where he was pushed from behind when he was maybe a yard or so out of bounds and that draws a flag. He didn't even fall down from it. There was no chance of him being hurt on the play whereas the play with Baker could've ended the game for both players and thats what they're trying to avoid. yeah i agree, the consistency is appalling. Im vastly more infuriated tho by 2 straight weeks of the most obvious false starts not called thst ive ecer seen in 30 years of watching football. Never seen that sht. Winston was noticeably astonished there was no whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said: yeah i agree, the consistency is appalling. Im vastly more infuriated tho by 2 straight weeks of the most obvious false starts not called thst ive ecer seen in 30 years of watching football. Never seen that sht. Winston was noticeably astonished there was no whistle. The calls are pretty atrocious across the board in all games. Dallas got totally hosed on the game tying FG attempt on a terrible call. At least this time, not calling the false start helped us because we got a sack on the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATOM Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 10 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said: honestly im ok with that call as long as they give browns players the same benefit of the doubt. I dont want QB's protected that hard. Baker clearly only started to.slide once he saw the guy coming. Had he commited himself to the slide a shade early. he might have drawn a flag. how can you be o.k with it ? the defender lead with the crown of his helmet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 I hope the “soft rollout” costs them billions in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 28 minutes ago, ATOM said: how can you be o.k with it ? the defender lead with the crown of his helmet had baker stayed upright he would have been hit lower. He started his slide late. In real time i thought for sure penalty but when they replsyed it, like i said i dont want qb's that coddled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said: had baker stayed upright he would have been hit lower. He started his slide late. In real time i thought for sure penalty but when they replsyed it, like i said i dont want qb's that coddled. Too late for that. Just see the penalty that was called on Mahomes last night when he didn't even fall down from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATOM Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 13 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said: had baker stayed upright he would have been hit lower. He started his slide late. In real time i thought for sure penalty but when they replsyed it, like i said i dont want qb's that coddled. but the rule is a defender may not lower the crown of his helmet and that go's for any player,,so again i asked how could you or anyone for that matter be o.k with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 This Atom fella is a lot smarter than syd ever was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns1216 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 21 minutes ago, ATOM said: but the rule is a defender may not lower the crown of his helmet and that go's for any player,,so again i asked how could you or anyone for that matter be o.k with that goes against the "heads up" tackling technique the NFL is trying to enforce. Both players are lucky to walk away from that hit with no injuries. It's frustrating when the NFL is so inconsistent with their calls, getting ridiculous now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 IMO the most disturbing part of it all is that despite the official closest to the hit throwing his flag - the referee over-ruling him and waiving it off started that play positioned in our backfield 5-7 yards behind Baker and didn't move downfield until after Baker crossed the LOS. Not only that, when Baker crossed from 1 side of the field to the other - the Referee that is trailing the action looks for blocks in the back and holding on all the pursuit also crossing from 1 side to the other. In other words, there were a lot of obstructions and distractions for the Ref to see through in order to have a superior view that would enable him to waive off the flag. Now, add the hit Garrett had on the 260 lb Roethlisberger OUTSIDE of the pocket which gave them a first and goal inside our 5 yard line instead of the FG they should have had. They got a TD from it instead of just 3 points in a game that went into OT. Over the years, how many times has Roethlisberger broken arm tackles outside of the pocket run or pass? There's 2 of our OT games where the BAD calls went against this team coming off an 0-16 season where bullshitt apologies mean nothing more than "it's only the Cleveland Browns." Until I see otherwise from this league - they don't give me too many reasons to feel otherwise. Please spare me the lectures of all teams get bad calls against them because it's not nearly as frequent as this team takes it up the dumpster from them. They also made sure they weren't going to allow Derek Carr's fumble that would have provided the game over knockout punch. There's 3 wins they've taken from our players IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Guys, let’s face it, the NFL and it’s officiating is BS. Just gotta roll with the punches and overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 49 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said: Guys, let’s face it, the NFL and it’s officiating is BS. Just gotta roll with the punches and overcome. When these players are working hard to be thought of as something better than the 0-16 record many in this country still see them as - it sure would have been nice if Garrett's hit on Ben outside of the pocket didn't get flagged (ultimately giving Pitt a TD instead of the FG they would have settled on). That's a 4 point swing on a game that wouldn't have required OT. It would have been just as nice if the Referee didn't over rule the official not only in better position of the hit but also exhibiting better understanding of what is supposed to be a HUGE priority to enforce. Instead, it sure seems like officiating crews are still defaulting to "it's only the Cleveland Browns that never make the playoffs anyway." I wish I could feel different but there's also the Derek Carr fumble which would have been the knockout punch that would ended the comeback. That's 3 wins I count taken out of this team's hands. YES, all teams have bad calls go against them but none of them are coming off an 0-16 football season in terms of ability to overcome that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 1 hour ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said: Guys, let’s face it, the NFL and it’s officiating is BS. Just gotta roll with the punches and overcome. With all due respect, I don't think we should keep rolling with it. The glass chin they keep shattering is knocking us out more so than our opponents are able to. If that's not a problem worth fighting - we're all wasting serious time following this league. The league seems to care more about pleasing customers in England and Mexico City than long time fans/customers like us and player safety of our 1st overall investment. Somebody at the top of our organization needs to show us he has 2 testicles here with a video collage of specific examples the refs boning us up the asss without the vaseline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvoethe Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Baker will end up damaged...he is already taking too many hits. And his ankle is dinged. Its wash rinse repeat of every other qb we have had the last 10 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 I've tried to stop complaining about the refs..but I suck at it..The NFL attorneys wrote the true intentions of the rules after the rules committee/Players Union never really agreed to them..The ink has dried.So they can't fix them once in place till next start of league meetings."If" So they have pushed it down to the refs to figure it out.Pushing player safety first.Problem is imo, they made more rules to the ones they already had in place.never a good idea and some never knew those rules. Some refs retired seeing this coming. Now the confusion lies "what is the right call of option a,b or c" and TV Replay judges are not helping any of this with fans..As a fan, most blame the man we see blowing the whistles..but somebody wrote that rule into the rulebook,Where's that Guy? President Alberto Riveron..also first year on the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 This has nothing to do with whether or not its a QB, if he slid etc. It was clearly targeting. BS no call and will end up in an apology this week. fck the officials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 The ref actually said “a runner is allowed to be hit in the head” Is that true?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATOM Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 28 minutes ago, LondonBrown said: The ref actually said “a runner is allowed to be hit in the head” Is that true?! NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Damn, and to think I remember 'head on tackle' drills when I played football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Two things about this: 1. I can't be the only person who could see that Mayfield was going to get killed on that play from a mile away. I literally yelled: "GET THE Shmuck DOWN BAKER!" just before his head was used as target practice. 2. I would pay good money to be able to sit down with Clay Matthews Jr. and show him that play, the refs picking up the flag, and the explanation that a QB cannot be tackled in a perfect wrap-up manner if an ounce of body weight from the tackler is laid upon the QB, but yes Virginia, you CAN you use your head as a missile when tackling a scrambling QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 This is ironic in several ways. It was posted on Saturday, so before the game. Ed Hoculi's son was the referee for the Browns game on Sunday. Maybe he needs to watch his dad explain the rule a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Flugel said: When these players are working hard to be thought of as something better than the 0-16 record many in this country still see them as - it sure would have been nice if Garrett's hit on Ben outside of the pocket didn't get flagged (ultimately giving Pitt a TD instead of the FG they would have settled on). That's a 4 point swing on a game that wouldn't have required OT. It would have been just as nice if the Referee didn't over rule the official not only in better position of the hit but also exhibiting better understanding of what is supposed to be a HUGE priority to enforce. Instead, it sure seems like officiating crews are still defaulting to "it's only the Cleveland Browns that never make the playoffs anyway." I wish I could feel different but there's also the Derek Carr fumble which would have been the knockout punch that would ended the comeback. That's 3 wins I count taken out of this team's hands. YES, all teams have bad calls go against them but none of them are coming off an 0-16 football season in terms of ability to overcome that. It wasn't just that targeting on Baker, Flugs. I saw it, and you probably did too. the phantom defensive holding, roughing the qb, and Mayfield "in the grasp". It looked like the fix was on to the the Yucks the game, by any means possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoolie Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 While I believe Browns fans are the worst at blaming their woes on the refs, the hit on Mayfield was a violation, in every aspect of the rule. It is disgusting, NOT idiotic, it is disgusting on many fronts. I am sick to the point of vomiting when I see how many of their fahking thugs lower their heads to tackle. I watched some show on HBO SPorts about the Monsters of the Midway, Butkus, Eller, White, Green, Greer, Lambert and Ham......NONE of them lowered their head in making tackles. When the fauchk did this disgusting bastardization of football start? How is it that so many of these scumtards lower their heads knowing it is illegal, and seeing the spinal injuries it causes? The no-call on Baker was despicable. The refs confused incidental head-to-head that is allowed when a QB becomes a runner, then the purposeful lowering of the head. Frankly, in my humble opinion, the first violation of a hit with lower head should be given a 4-week suspension with no pay. The second violation gets a year suspension with no pay. The third violation gets expulsion from the league.You can be sure if Brady got hit like that, the refs would have been all over it. Sad. It is sad what these azzhole refs have done to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 27 minutes ago, Ghoolie said: While I believe Browns fans are the worst at blaming their woes on the refs, the hit on Mayfield was a violation, in every aspect of the rule. It is disgusting, NOT idiotic, it is disgusting on many fronts. I am sick to the point of vomiting when I see how many of their fahking thugs lower their heads to tackle. I watched some show on HBO SPorts about the Monsters of the Midway, Butkus, Eller, White, Green, Greer, Lambert and Ham......NONE of them lowered their head in making tackles. When the fauchk did this disgusting bastardization of football start? How is it that so many of these scumtards lower their heads knowing it is illegal, and seeing the spinal injuries it causes? The no-call on Baker was despicable. The refs confused incidental head-to-head that is allowed when a QB becomes a runner, then the purposeful lowering of the head. Frankly, in my humble opinion, the first violation of a hit with lower head should be given a 4-week suspension with no pay. The second violation gets a year suspension with no pay. The third violation gets expulsion from the league.You can be sure if Brady got hit like that, the refs would have been all over it. Sad. It is sad what these azzhole refs have done to the game. It's not the refs.. Its Fawking GOD'ell who is systematically ruining the integrity of the NFL itself.. And the way the game is , and should be played.... He is taking the honor and dynamics of the game and turning into a free for all money grab for the owners and for the players and fleecing the fans at the same time... The problem is simply because the NFL is kind of like an in house monopoly.. With no real competition for TV and concession revenue.... It's simply become a farce of what it started out from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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