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Use of players on offense

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A good article on it here 

https://articles.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/10/depleted_cleveland_browns_aren.amp?__twitter_impression=true

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns ran a trick play Sunday, a flea flicker that Carlos Hyde flipped back to Baker Mayfield, and then the No. 1 pick in the NFL Draft sent a 33-yard pass toward the end zone.

At the goal line, undrafted rookie receiver Damion Ratley went up for the catchable ball like he'd never tried to catch a pass in a real NFL game before.

He hadn't.

Yes, the first target of Ratley's professional life was a trick play potential touchdown for a team that entered Sunday with playoff aspirations. It didn't work. Nothing the Browns did Sunday worked in a 38-14 loss to the Los Angeles Chargers.

A depleted offense, missing injured receivers Rashard Higgins and Derek Willies, didn't utilize the best players that were available. If you wondered where the Browns skill was in week six, Duke Johnson (five targets, two rushes) and Nick Chubb (three rushes) were standing on the sideline with their hands raised.

Here we are.

The Browns missed Higgins, Willies, the one-time game-changing talent of Josh Gordon (traded for unreliability) and one-time possible potential of Corey Coleman (traded for not being good at football) terribly on Sunday.

But the answer to all that didn't have to be eight targets for Ratley and 10 targets for fourth-round rookie Antonio Callaway, who has stunningly turned into a go-to player a year after not playing football at the University of Florida.

"I've got to adapt," Callaway said Sunday. "It's the NFL, so whether I played last year or didn't play last year, I've got to be ready."

Ratley actually wound up making some plays Sunday, catching six of his eight targets for 82 yards. Callaway, an understandably enigmatic hit-or-miss talent at this point in his career, caught just two of those 10 targets for nine yards.

The Browns were throwing to some guys who can't do it yet. But, critically, the Browns are also ignoring some guys who maybe can do it.

Johnson's lack of action was a major topic this week , with Johnson expressing some frustration at his lack of usage, and Hue Jackson and offensive coordinator Todd Haley expressing an interest in getting him more involved.

This wasn't much of a jump.

Johnson ran it twice for 36 yards and was targeted five times in the pass game, catching four passes for 73 yards.

So the Browns tried Johnson seven times and gained 109 yards on those plays, average of 15.6 yards.

In their other 65 plays, they gained 208 yards, an average of 3.2 yards.

It's obviously not actually that simple or that stark. But Johnson had a combination of 41 targets and rushes through five games, an average of eight per game. To talk all week about doing more with Johnson, then to try him seven times, is a failure.

"I thought it was better," Jackson said of involving Johnson. "Duke is a good football player. I have said it all along that he is. He will continue to make plays. That part was good. Have to continue to build on it."

To be clear, Johnson is ready yesterday to be used as a receiver. He wasn't used that way Sunday, on a day when four receivers were active and one of them, Rod Streater, went down with an injury on the day's first punt and didn't return.

The Chargers scored two touchdowns because Tyrell Williams hauled down contested throws in traffic, and the Browns missed their two early shots trying rookies who aren't ready while Johnson watched.

The Browns did put out a stat after the game that showed Johnson fifth in Browns history for most catches through five years of his career, with 202.

By season, that is: 61 catches, 53 catches, 74 catches ... and a pace this season for 37 catches.

Meanwhile, the Browns keep force-feeding Callaway, who still can't quite believe the role he's been forced into as a fourth-round flier from the 2018 NFL Draft.

Ever think you'd be counted on like this when you were drafted?

"Ahh, no," Callaway said.

So what do you do?

"Just do my job and don't try to do too much," he said.

Targeted five times in the first two weeks, Callaway has been targeted 35 times in the last four weeks.

On the season, here are the Browns leaders in targets in the pass game and their number of catches:

* Jarvis Landry 65 -- 31 catches

* David Njoku 46 -- 27 catches

* Callaway 40 -- 15 catches

* Johnson 22 -- 14 catches

* Rashard Higgins 22 -- 16 catches

* Carlos Hyde 10 -- 6 catches

Callaway has been used more often down the field, so his catch rate will be lower. Still, that's a lot of action in the last four weeks and a lot of missed connections.

One of those came in the end zone in the first quarter, when Callaway tracked a 40-yard deep ball from Mayfield but wound up running next to it and missing it as he reached out.

"I probably should have left my feet," Callaway said. "If I had left my feet and dove I would have caught it."

There were should-haves all over the field for the Browns. But don't look at the problems. Look at the Browns ignoring the solutions.

Rookie running back Nick Chubb is another player the Browns have talked about using more and haven't. Carlos Hyde entered the game second in the league in carries with 100 -- and 39th in yards per carry at 3.5. Chubb entered with 13 carries for 148 yards -- 11.4 yards per carry.

Hyde carried 14 times for 34 yards Sunday -- 2.4 average.

Chubb carried three times for 25 yards -- 8.3 average.

That doesn't mean Chubb should be the lead back. This doesn't mean Johnson should be the leading receiver.

This means that for an offense that is strapped, the coaches must do more problem-solving. Johnson and Chubb can help. Use them. Find a way. There's no other option.

"I do not have any excuses. That is the National Football League," Jackson said of being forced to play young receivers. "Next guy is up. We just have to take what we have, keep coaching and get better."

Fine. Next guy up. Just make sure the right guys are in line.

Landry, targeted nine times for two catches for 11 yards, needs more chances, regardless of what a defense is doing.

"We just have to find a way. Have to find a way," Jackson said. "Obviously, that is not good enough."

"He is the best receiver in the league in my opinion," Mayfield said. "I have to put the ball in better range for him."

The Browns also have to get their other playmakers in range.

The offense is in trouble with some skill players, and that's not the fault of the coaches. But if they don't use the right players to solve those problems, that is on them.

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Are you advocating benching Hyde?

Because I don't know that many teams who get three RBs all a decent amount of touches. 

(That being said, I think Chubb is the starter next year) 

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2.4ypc today 35th overall in NFL and whiffing on sacks today. What are we afraid of missing out on 

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Just move Duke to WR. Why is this so hard.... Slot receiver/3rd down back.  Get him the damn ball.  I thought for sure with Higgins down all week this would have been the move anyway....

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6 minutes ago, hx214 said:

Just move Duke to WR. Why is this so hard.... Slot receiver/3rd down back.  Get him the damn ball.  I thought for sure with Higgins down all week this would have been the move anyway....

You’re not alone. Alas, Hue gonna Hue 

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Why is something so obvious being ignored by the staff? He’s been underused ever since Hue joined

 

E373B4A8-4DA0-4081-ABDC-DCA3CBDAD84B.png

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I've said it before, but...

If  Duke doesn't spend time in the WR room this week, then he never will.

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For some reason my phone didn't save it - 

I had a pretty lengthy post that showed the similarities in combine results and styles of play between Duke and McCaffery.   I noted that while CmC had a little height on Duke, the Panthers do a great job getting engineered touches for him on top of another 8-10 runs.   

I also went on about how the coaching staff saw the Saints use Kamara and there was a large degree of inspiration to be found.   Pretty sure I bitched about that as far back as week 2.  

Point being, Duke is criminally under used in this offense and Haley's unwillingness to involve him or outright inability is pretty staggering.  His style is a direct compliment to Hyde and provides a great matchup/safety blanket for a rookie QB.    It should be Hyde/Duke 1a and 1b.  Not Hyde Chubb.

Right now I'm not too happy with Haley.   Some of the things I see are the Sheet I had to hear echo from Steelers fans and I see a degree of truth evolving here that I don't like.   

While I'm at it, I believe I mentioned DI being a need for this team - yeah, mark that down along with not understanding the need for calling certain stunts against the run and getting upfield too fast.   The Chargers used Williams over-aggressiveness against him.    I have to go back and check but I'm pretty damn certain we got hit with a couple wham blocks that wouldn't have been possible with some more situational awareness type football and an excessive need to gap responsibility exchange against runs from the gun.  

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Duke's inability to be used on a consistent basis by not only Hue but now Haley is just outright baffling. 

He's not a 20 carry a game guy, but how hard is it to get him a regular 6-8 carries a game, along with 4 or 5 receptions? 

He should be a player that is instrumental in every week's gameplan. Too often he's almost an after thought. 

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2 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Right now I'm not too happy with Haley.   Some of the things I see are the Sheet I had to hear echo from Steelers fans and I see a degree of truth evolving here that I don't like.   

While I'm at it, I believe I mentioned DI being a need for this team - yeah, mark that down along with not understanding the need for calling certain stunts against the run and getting upfield too fast.   The Chargers used Williams over-aggressiveness against him.    I have to go back and check but I'm pretty damn certain we got hit with a couple wham blocks that wouldn't have been possible with some more situational awareness type football and an excessive need to gap responsibility exchange against runs from the gun.  

Big Ben wanted him out apparently.

Tbh it looked like the DL(Garrett included) we’re lacking in the discipline department. I’m not sure who’s to blame for it though. 

Nobody set the edge. It was abysmal. 

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16 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

Duke's inability to be used on a consistent basis by not only Hue but now Haley is just outright baffling. 

He's not a 20 carry a game guy, but how hard is it to get him a regular 6-8 carries a game, along with 4 or 5 receptions? 

He should be a player that is instrumental in every week's gameplan. Too often he's almost an after thought. 

Well it appeared Baker missed Duke out of the backfield a few times yesterday. And based of Hard Knocks, it seems as if they limit reps for certain players based off of injury history, if Duke gets hurt, we can’t use him. 

Why Chubb can’t get more carries? That’s what I don’t understand, have we ran a single toss play this year, btw?

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Hue Jackson simply needs to be gone. A thorn in the side of this team and I think the organization knows he’s a dead man walking. Maybe hue even knows (tho that may be giving him too much credit)

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7 hours ago, TypicalBrowns50 said:

Hue Jackson simply needs to be gone. A thorn in the side of this team and I think the organization knows he’s a dead man walking. Maybe hue even knows (tho that may be giving him too much credit)

He has the ear of Jimmah haslam and I think Dee's panties. Others have gone but the haslams say hue stays on.  Answer that one.

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On 10/16/2018 at 6:52 AM, flyingfooldoug said:

He has the ear of Jimmah haslam and I think Dee's panties. Others have gone but the haslams say hue stays on.  Answer that one.

Jimmah fired two head coaches in the span of three years. AND he made the team draft the drunk ugly midget. 

Hue has his job this year based on that alone.  Nobody worth anything is lining up for that kind of leash.  In my opinion Mike P should still be the head coach.

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13 hours ago, hx214 said:

Mike P should still be the head coach.

garrett and ogbah would be in the 220's ny now running 30 yds downfield with slot receivers......no thanks. Pettine used his last year with the browns to run defensive experiments cause he prob understood he was gone

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18 hours ago, hx214 said:

Jimmah fired two head coaches in the span of three years. ADD he made the team draft the drunk ugly midget. 

Hue has his job this year based on that alone.  Nobody worth anything is lining up for that kind of leash.  In my opinion Mike P should still be the head coach.

That would mean keeping a real coach. Kinda like bizarro world. Fire the real coach and keep the record setting loser. As I pay less and less attention to football. 

Thanks jimmah

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I'm prepared to give the coaches somewhat of a break through only 6 games and dealing with a myriad of injuries. However, I want to see improvement. If Duke is catching the ball, GET HIM the ball. Why isn't Devalve targeted more than once or twice in 2 weeks? I just posted in the other thread that we had FOUR dropped touchdown passes against the Bolts. Four! Every single one of them would've scored, and all of them were over 35 yards. Big plays. Game-changing plays. Plays our rookie QB absolutely needs after taking a beating and playing his heart out. 

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6 hours ago, Clevfan4life said:

garrett and ogbah would be in the 220's ny now running 30 yds downfield with slot receivers......no thanks. Pettine used his last year with the browns to run defensive experiments cause he prob understood he was gone

That's cause he got saddled with Mingo..... another stellar pick.  

Mike's biggest mistake was keeping Daboll as his Offensive Cord. How that guy still has a job bouncing from team to team is beyond me.

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14 minutes ago, hx214 said:

That's cause he got saddled with Mingo..... another stellar pick.  

Mike's biggest mistake was keeping Daboll as his Offensive Cord. How that guy still has a job bouncing from team to team is beyond me.

He might have been able to keep Kyle Shanahan as his OC, but when Ray Farmer is interfering in the middle of the game, he got out of the Browns as fast as he could. (The guy had a power point I think listing the reasons why he should be allowed to get out of his contract with the Browns)

I thought Pettine's biggest issue was his allegiance to his buddy as defensive coordinator. (Can't remember his name) That guy was not good. 

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4 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

I thought Pettine's biggest issue was his allegiance to his buddy as defensive coordinator. (Can't remember his name) That guy was not good. 

Jim O'Neil..and he is still awe-full at oakland..Pet at GB D, got torched by 9'ers Bethard..at least they split personally awe-full  

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1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said:

He might have been able to keep Kyle Shanahan as his OC, but when Ray Farmer is interfering in the middle of the game, he got out of the Browns as fast as he could. (The guy had a power point I think listing the reasons why he should be allowed to get out of his contract with the Browns)

I thought Pettine's biggest issue was his allegiance to his buddy as defensive coordinator. (Can't remember his name) That guy was not good. 

You know what, you are right it was Jim O'Neil.  Daboll was with Eric.  O'neil was horrible too. I could never figure out why Mike let him run the defense into the ground when he was a defensive coach himself.  I always think Daboll because I see him all over the league. Dude ran like 4 total plays for is offensive scheme... doing a quick search to refresh my memory and the Bill boards are lighting up about how they need to fire him now..... haha.

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17 minutes ago, hx214 said:

You know what, you are right it was Jim O'Neil.  Daboll was with Eric.  O'neil was horrible too. I could never figure out why Mike let him run the defense into the ground when he was a defensive coach himself.  I always think Daboll because I see him all over the league. Dude ran like 4 total plays for is offensive scheme... doing a quick search to refresh my memory and the Bill boards are lighting up about how they need to fire him now..... haha.

So you've been on the Bills boards?

I'd be curious how they are feeling about Allen. I got the impression after the draft they weren't really thrilled with the pick. Bills didn't do him any favors by rushing him onto the field. 

All and all, I liked Pettine. I felt bad for the hand he was dealt here. 

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2 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

So you've been on the Bills boards?

I'd be curious how they are feeling about Allen. I got the impression after the draft they weren't really thrilled with the pick. Bills didn't do him any favors by rushing him onto the field. 

All and all, I liked Pettine. I felt bad for the hand he was dealt here. 

I just typed in Daboll to see where he was now. I mixed him up with O'Neil because I thought he was in San Fran. First few things coming up was Fire Daboll now from Bills boards. 

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15 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

 All and all, I liked Pettine. I felt bad for the hand he was dealt here. 

Even I know he was dealt drunk Johnny by jimmah and then fired before they should have fired Johnny and gotten him a sober QB. Owners are to poorest in the NFL and have now retained a lame duck HC who has already demonstrated on multiple occasions he has no game day coaching talent.

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3 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Even I know he was dealt drunk Johnny by jimmah and then fired before they should have fired Johnny and gotten him a sober QB. Owners are to poorest in the NFL and have now retained a lame duck HC who has already demonstrated on multiple occasions he has no game day coaching talent.

I have a feeling Dorsey and Hue are going to play out the same way it did with Mangini and Holmgren. Holmgren inherited Mangini and let him stick around for another season, and then fired him, leaving everyone to think: "What was the point of that?"

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On 10/14/2018 at 6:41 PM, hx214 said:

Just move Duke to WR. Why is this so hard.... Slot receiver/3rd down back.  Get him the damn ball.  I thought for sure with Higgins down all week this would have been the move anyway....

as i said in a different thread DUKE coming out of the backfield on a pass play pit's him against a linebacker split him out wide ? well i just see the same production vs a db

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6 hours ago, hx214 said:

You know what, you are right it was Jim O'Neil.  Daboll was with Eric.  O'neil was horrible too. I could never figure out why Mike let him run the defense into the ground when he was a defensive coach himself.  I always think Daboll because I see him all over the league. Dude ran like 4 total plays for is offensive scheme... doing a quick search to refresh my memory and the Bill boards are lighting up about how they need to fire him now..... haha.

O'Neill was AWFUL

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19 hours ago, ATOM said:

as i said in a different thread DUKE coming out of the backfield on a pass play pit's him against a linebacker split him out wide ? well i just see the same production vs a db

Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.

He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.

Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.

Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.

Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.

Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it. 

Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.

Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.

Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.

Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.

You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure,  a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.

Zombo

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zombo said:

Duke Johnson is not a wide receiver.

He is 5'9, 210 and runs a 4.54. Every cornerback in the league could cover him if he lined up wide. Too short and stocky to be a wideout.

Could he play the slot? Sure. But we have Jarvis Landry in the slot who has caught more passes than anybody in league history over the first 4 and a half years of his career. So, he's not our best option there.

Duke's talent is running in space with the ball. He's elusive and strong. And sure-handed. He's ideal as an outlet guy. Get him on a linebacker and he will win that race. Think Darren Sproles, Giovani Bernard, etc ... that is the best use of Duke Johnson.

Is a wide receiver off the street, a wide receiver that got cut in camp, a better wide receiver than Duke Johnson? Yes.

Because they have the body and the training to be wide receivers. He's a running back. He's a third down back, He's an outlet back ... that is who he is, and he is very good at it. 

Callaway needs to catch the ball. But Callaway has a step on his man in the end zone, Duke would be blanketed and that's how you get interceptions. Keep throwing to Calloway it is going to payoff as he gets more sure of himself.

Ratley had a very good first game ... develop him.

Breshard Perriman has first round talent, see if the light can come on for him.

Higgins could be back in a week or two and Landry-Calloway-Higgins works if Calloway comes around. And if Ratley and Perriman turn into reliable options, then Baker has a stable of wideouts to turn to.

You are not going to solve any problems by making our third down back a wide receiver. Get him the ball more, sure,  a few more designed routes, sure. But we're going to get BETTER by making Calloway, Ratley, Perriman, Scott etc, better. That's what the coaching staff needs to do. These guys need to play, they need practice reps with Baker and they need to catch the ball when they are open. Repetitiveness solves that not gimmickry.

Zombo

 

 

i meant to say I do not see the same production vs a DB

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