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Westside Steve

The official Terry Pluto thread

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Back to our friend Terry.......

........  He’s never won a playoff game, but four times his teams have reached the postseason.

Dalton became a starter in 2011, the same year the Browns opened the season with Colt McCoy.

Since then, the Browns' opening day quarterbacks have been Brandon Weeden (2012, 2013), Brian Hoyer (2014), Josh McCown (2015), Robert Griffin III (2016), DeShone Kizer (2017) and Tyrod Taylor (2018).

At the age of 31, Dalton is at his peak. He’s a pretty good NFL quarterback.

Would you trade Mayfield for Dalton?

Absolutely not.

At least, that’s my answer......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think that is a pretty safe answer. :)

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7 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Back to our friend Terry.......

........  He’s never won a playoff game, but four times his teams have reached the postseason.

Dalton became a starter in 2011, the same year the Browns opened the season with Colt McCoy.

Since then, the Browns' opening day quarterbacks have been Brandon Weeden (2012, 2013), Brian Hoyer (2014), Josh McCown (2015), Robert Griffin III (2016), DeShone Kizer (2017) and Tyrod Taylor (2018).

At the age of 31, Dalton is at his peak. He’s a pretty good NFL quarterback.

Would you trade Mayfield for Dalton?

Absolutely not.

At least, that’s my answer......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think that is a pretty safe answer. :)

Come Sunday, I’m looking forward to just calling him raggedy. Never cared for him. Sold his soul to the devil to win a few football games. I guess his soul wasn’t worth much though with all his playoff victories. 

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22 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Back to our friend Terry.......

........  He’s never won a playoff game, but four times his teams have reached the postseason.

Dalton became a starter in 2011, the same year the Browns opened the season with Colt McCoy.

Since then, the Browns' opening day quarterbacks have been Brandon Weeden (2012, 2013), Brian Hoyer (2014), Josh McCown (2015), Robert Griffin III (2016), DeShone Kizer (2017) and Tyrod Taylor (2018).

At the age of 31, Dalton is at his peak. He’s a pretty good NFL quarterback.

Would you trade Mayfield for Dalton?

Absolutely not.

At least, that’s my answer......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think that is a pretty safe answer. :)

You know what's funny? During the last several years of Dalton's career, there seems to be a large number of haters out there who don't care for him. Now, during that time, we had some real QB specimens, and we would've sold our right arm for Andy Dalton, or at least I WOULD HAVE. Fast forward to now, and I wouldn't even THINK about switching Baker for the Ginger QB. I still think Baker will have a couple games where he somewhat struggles, but he's only a rookie, and I can't wait to see how he progresses. 

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Back to Terry and the AFCN.......

I know this is a way-too-early prediction, but Mayfield appears to have given the Browns a chance to compete in the AFC North.

At least, when it comes to quarterbacks.

If you like the confusing QB rating system, here’s how the four QBs rank: Roethlisberger (15th), Dalton (20th), Mayfield (23rd) and Flacco (27th). 

The only quarterback in that group likely to take a significant step forward in his career is Mayfield.

Mayfield has thrown 13 TD passes compared to seven interceptions. He’s completing 62 percent of his passes.

In his last two games with new offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens, Mayfield has competed 74 percent of his passes: five TDs compared to a single interception.

He has the arm strength to throw the ball through the cold and the wind in this division.

My guess is Baltimore would love to have Mayfield under center right now.

Cincinnati possibly could feel the same way.

Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh, and hopefully Mayfield can become good enough to make those games with the Steelers relevant.........

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I guess the beat goes on Sunday and we'll see just how competitve the BROWNS have become from 0-16 and a 24+ year old team......go ahead, surprise us! ;)

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7 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Back to Terry and the AFCN.......

I know this is a way-too-early prediction, but Mayfield appears to have given the Browns a chance to compete in the AFC North.

At least, when it comes to quarterbacks.

If you like the confusing QB rating system, here’s how the four QBs rank: Roethlisberger (15th), Dalton (20th), Mayfield (23rd) and Flacco (27th). 

The only quarterback in that group likely to take a significant step forward in his career is Mayfield.

Mayfield has thrown 13 TD passes compared to seven interceptions. He’s completing 62 percent of his passes.

In his last two games with new offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens, Mayfield has competed 74 percent of his passes: five TDs compared to a single interception.

He has the arm strength to throw the ball through the cold and the wind in this division.

My guess is Baltimore would love to have Mayfield under center right now.

Cincinnati possibly could feel the same way.

Pittsburgh is Pittsburgh, and hopefully Mayfield can become good enough to make those games with the Steelers relevant.........

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I guess the beat goes on Sunday and we'll see just how competitve the BROWNS have become from 0-16 and a 24+ year old team......go ahead, surprise us! ;)

I'm very interested to see how we'll play after our best game in probably 3+ years. We need to prove it wasn't just a flash in the pan and that we can consistently summon a similar level of play. 

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Terry on one our favorite subjects in school chemistry.......

3. Myles Garrett on the difference after the coaching changes: “We are more comfortable, more fluid and better practiced. There is more chemistry.”

And the road ahead.....

9. The Browns end the season with four of their last six games on the road. Here are the teams and their home records: Cincinnati (3-2), Baltimore (3-2), Houston (3-1) and Denver (2-3). Williams said not winning on the road is a motivation tool: “I use everything I can...everything.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The many parts of a winning team are starting to come together including team chemistry. And before the season I thought the ending schedule was brutal but they might be able to hack out a few wins, we'll see. 5-10-1? Maybe.

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34 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

It's looking more and more like Williams as HC/DC and Kitchens as OC. ST's for punting still look shaky however. Poor downfield coverage. Still think we need a better ST coach.

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CLEVELAND, Ohio – The Browns are in an excellent position when it comes to picking a coach for 2019.

The last three games have been an indictment of how former head coach Hue Jackson struggled on the job.

I’ve received a few emails from fans who have adopted Jackson’s post-firing contention that he would have fixed the Browns offense if just given the chance. That’s what he told Mary Kay Cabot of cleveland,com........

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes I guess some fans do email Terry, even about how Hue struggled on the job his record really showed that!

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2 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

That’s just it, how many wins do you think it takes to keep the current staff?  For a lot of reasons, I believe it’s a long shot to keep everyone (except for special teams bozo, good grief).  Dorsey didn’t get to hire his coach in Kansas City (Reid was hired like two weeks before Dorsey), and he was saddled with Hue Jackson in Cleveland.  Dorsey has probably had a list of coaches in his pocket for YEARS, and now that he finally gets the opportunity to interview people for the job and fill it the way HE wants to, I find it hard to believe that Gregg and Kitchens will be back.  But should they?

Sometimes you don’t fix what isn’t broken, right?  I really do believe we’re going to somewhat struggle this weekend, as Houston is downright nasty and on fire.  If that happens, IF…I really hope people don’t get too down on Kitchens.  He’s started his OC career off to an absurd start, and he can’t be amazing EVERY week  (but I hope he is, lol).  But after this game, the rest are a total toss-up in my eyes.  The games could go either way.  Let’s say we lose this week, but split the rest, giving us a record of 6-9-1.  If we finish with that record, AND our offense (ahem…quarterback) continues to shine, I don’t see ANY way we let Kitchens and Gregg go.  I really don’t. 

There’s more to it than just wins and losses, too.  Think about how young our offense is right now.  Do you REALLY want to bring in new defensive and offensive coaches who will inevitably bring THEIR schemes?  That means our young team will have to learn yet another scheme, new language, new route concepts, and begin the feeling out process all over again.  Offensively, one of the best ways to ruin a QB is to force him to learn new stuff every year.  They never get a chance to MASTER something, as they’re always trying to LEARN something.  For example, how much better does a guy like Callaway look right now?  Take that amazing 3rd and 11 completion we had Sunday.  Callaway read the situation perfectly, ran to the sideline, and Mayfield delivered a BULLET for a giant first down, that lead to a TD.  That’s the kind of thing that comes with practice and familiarity, and you probably don’t get that by changing schemes and concepts.  Callaway is growing, Njoku is growing, Baker, Chubb, and on down the line. 

Being familiar with schemes and coaches goes even further.  Look at our offensive line for example.  This was a major source of consternation for much of the year, but as soon as Freddie Kitchens takes over, all the sudden our OL looks all world.  That’s because he understands route concepts, how to get the ball out quickly, how/when to run the ball, and he calls plays that his players are good at.  Did you even hear Chris Hubbard’s name Sunday?  Greg Robinson’s?  Right now, Greg Robinson isn’t just winning the starting LT spot for next week, he’s winning the job for the next few YEARS.  To be fair, Robinson got away with an obvious hold on the FIRST play of the game that really should’ve negated a nice screen pass to Chubb, and it should’ve been 1st and 20.  But…they didn’t call it (for once), and he got lucky.  Other than that, our OL looked strong, Baker got the ball out quickly, and we’re utilizing a ton of different receivers. 

I’m just not sure making a sweeping coaching change is what this team needs, and the future of our entire team is Baker Mayfield, and if he’s playing well with the current setup and CONTINUES to play well, then I don’t think it’s even a question.  You bring everyone back.  The players seem to like Gregg Williams’ “firm but fair” type of coaching, and Freddie Kitchens could be tethered to Baker Mayfield for a chunk of his career as the OC. 

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Again from Terry.......

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

The Browns have five more games left.

That’s five more games not only for Williams and Kitchens to prove they should remain in their current jobs in 2019, but for the front office to evaluate them up close.

Dorsey had the same opportunity a year ago when he was hired with four games left in the 2017 season. He knew ownership required him to retain Jackson as coach.

But he could change the roster. He watched the practice habits of the players, and how they handled the stress of losing, playing in cold weather and their physical condition.

That’s the advantage of being there every day.

Now Dorsey is there every day with Williams and Kitchens.

The Browns play this week in Houston. Deshaun Watson and the Texans have won eight in a row. The Browns are an underdog and face a tremendous challenge.

It will be another test for the team and the next coaching staff.

That’s the blessing of having five more games to evaluate everyone......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This looks like an extremely interesting time for the fans and valuable time for the staff something I personally do not remember for a long time.

GO BROWNS, eval time!

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20 hours ago, mjp28 said:

This looks like an extremely interesting time for the fans and valuable time for the staff something I personally do not remember for a long time.

GO BROWNS, eval time!

Exactly, and that's where a lot of the fun come from. The final evaluation period provided by these games. And to be honest, we don't have to WIN tomorrow for this to be another successful interview, much as the Chiefs' game was in some ways successful. We were devastated by defensive injuries within 5 minutes of the game starting, yet we hung tough for a little while. I would've loved to play them at full strength. Anyway, if we play well and challenge the hottest team in the league, but don't pull out a win....it can still be victory for our coaches and players. 

Hey, the Saints won ten in a row and lost to Dallas. Foreshadowing? 😁

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41 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Unfortunately, ole Terry is probably right on the money with his prediction. Houston winning 8 in a row AND being at home doesn't sound fun at all, but then again, 8 games in a row is absurd, and perhaps it's their time to trip up. I REALLY don't see it happening, but hey, they aren't invincible. The strange vision I have of us winning involves a defensive touchdown and *gasp* a huge special teams play. 

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As far as Watson or Mayfield? Consider the fact that Watson, no matter how good he looks for a much better team in Texas in 2017, would have gotten his ass handed to him in Cleveland under Hue Jackson.

I love Mayfield. I'm glad we have him. I realize during the draft I thought the safe route was to go with Darnold or more especially Rosen, but I still really like Mayfield. I'm glad Dorsey didn't listen to me and tour.

WSS

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The Terry "ah-ha" moment on recent drafts......

19. It’s get a bit complicated. By not picking Watson at No. 1 or 12 in 2017, the Browns were able to add these players: Garrett, Ward, Peppers and Mayfield. Granted, it’s a bit of stretch to view it that way. But Garrett, Ward and Mayfield are impact players who can help the Browns for years. Peppers has a chance to be a solid starter.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the long run Cleveland might come out better on the total team rebuilding process -plus- rookie Kizer + Hue was a disaster.

Watson is a great young QB with some good tools around him.

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Oh afterall......

20. PREDICTION: Houston 32, Browns 27: It’ll be a fun game to watch, but the Texans are just too good at home.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah without some ill timed penalties and turnovers it might have been closer.....but still right now HOU > CLE in 2018.

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7 hours ago, mjp28 said:

Oh afterall......

20. PREDICTION: Houston 32, Browns 27: It’ll be a fun game to watch, but the Texans are just too good at home.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah without some ill timed penalties and turnovers it might have been closer.....but still right now HOU > CLE in 2018.

And that’s really the bottom line.  Yes, I’m pretty ticked that we couldn’t make it any closer.  The almost 80 yard touchdown being called back, and then fumbling two plays later on another long pass REALLY kicked me in the gut.  I think if we score on one of those plays it really makes me feel a little better.  Even though the game wasn’t “close”, if we lost like 29-20 it would’ve made me feel slightly better, and it also would’ve been another TD for Baker’s confidence and stats.  I know, I know, that sounds ridiculous, but whatever. 

I hate to beat a dead horse, but that pick before halftime is really burning me up.  On one hand, I love the aggressive nature of Baker, and throwing a jump ball to Njoku is usually a good idea, but the throw was simply awful, and it wasn’t even close to him.  But like I said before, go back and watch that INT.  Chubb (or Duke, don’t remember) is standing in the middle of the field, jumping up and down and SCREAMING for the ball.  You don’t even see a Texans’ defender in the entire screen, and lord knows how far he would’ve run with the ball.  The worst part about that play is Baker did the exact thing against the Chargers (I think) before halftime, and I would like for him to learn that lesson without making the error a second time.  Even a FG before half would’ve been nice because we had a nice TD drive to start the 3rd quarter. 

Baker will learn, I have no doubt about that.  I absolutely LOVE how he seemed to shrug off the atrocious first half, and although it's not fun to watch a game where we get blown out, go back and watch some of the throws Baker made yesterday (especially in second half).  I mean, some of those throws were next level stuff.  How about that TD to Higgins?  That ball he squeezed into Devalve on the sideline?  There were so many pinpoint balls DOWN THE FIELD that were stunning.  This kid has so much potential, he really does.  

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35 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

And that’s really the bottom line.  Yes, I’m pretty ticked that we couldn’t make it any closer.  The almost 80 yard touchdown being called back, and then fumbling two plays later on another long pass REALLY kicked me in the gut.  I think if we score on one of those plays it really makes me feel a little better.  Even though the game wasn’t “close”, if we lost like 29-20 it would’ve made me feel slightly better, and it also would’ve been another TD for Baker’s confidence and stats.  I know, I know, that sounds ridiculous, but whatever. 

I hate to beat a dead horse, but that pick before halftime is really burning me up.  On one hand, I love the aggressive nature of Baker, and throwing a jump ball to Njoku is usually a good idea, but the throw was simply awful, and it wasn’t even close to him.  But like I said before, go back and watch that INT.  Chubb (or Duke, don’t remember) is standing in the middle of the field, jumping up and down and SCREAMING for the ball.  You don’t even see a Texans’ defender in the entire screen, and lord knows how far he would’ve run with the ball.  The worst part about that play is Baker did the exact thing against the Chargers (I think) before halftime, and I would like for him to learn that lesson without making the error a second time.  Even a FG before half would’ve been nice because we had a nice TD drive to start the 3rd quarter. 

Baker will learn, I have no doubt about that.  I absolutely LOVE how he seemed to shrug off the atrocious first half, and although it's not fun to watch a game where we get blown out, go back and watch some of the throws Baker made yesterday (especially in second half).  I mean, some of those throws were next level stuff.  How about that TD to Higgins?  That ball he squeezed into Devalve on the sideline?  There were so many pinpoint balls DOWN THE FIELD that were stunning.  This kid has so much potential, he really does.  

Hey even Brees had a really bad int and loss on Th night, so it happens even to the best.

 

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15 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Hey even Brees had a really bad int and loss on Th night, so it happens even to the best.

 

Even Rodgers and the GB Pack have been having a tough year. GB & CLE both 4-7-1.

Parity is here, just about anybody can lose any week,

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5 hours ago, mjp28 said:

GB & CLE both 4-7-1.

If before the season you'd have said that we'd have the same record it would've had a completely different meaning.

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5 hours ago, Orion said:

If before the season you'd have said that we'd have the same record it would've had a completely different meaning.

Before the season I predicted one of them would go all the way.....and drafted Rodgers my QB in two FLs. :lol:

Then he gets injured in week 1. 

Hey sheet happens!

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^  Glad to see Baker wants to put last week behind him right away.

 

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1 hour ago, TexasAg1969 said:

"Football is back for real in Cleveland."

Yep, Terry seems to be all in on coaching and practice. We didn’t have either until mid season and all of a sudden, we’re a much improved team. 

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