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Cleveland Browns postgame scribbles: A plan to get Browns out of this mess

Today 5:33 AM.  https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/cleveland-browns-postgame-scribbles-a-plan-to-get-browns-out-of-this-mess.html

14. The front doesn’t like to hear this, but 2018 interim coach Gregg Williams brought in a sense of order and discipline that helped last season – and was missing in 2019. Bottom line: Bring in an experienced coach. Add blockers on offense, guys who can stop the run and pressure the passer on defense. The team has some flashy talent, now it needs basic football players.

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11. My plan would be to keep Dorsey with the caveat that he refrain from drafting guys who flunk drug tests at the NFL Combine (Antonio Callaway) along with other obvious character risks. The Browns need to get back to bringing in guys to play basic football, the blocking and tackling that were so lacking this season.

 

An NFL scout said that a when a player flunks a drug test at the Combine it isn't a red flag---it's an air raid siren. The players are told in January to stop smoking weed and whatever else is in their arsenal. They are told that they will be extensively drug tested at the Combine. Anyone who flunks a drug test at the Combine is a fucking idiot. Actually, under the CBA, any player that flunks a drug test in today's NFL is a moron.

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3 hours ago, mjp28 said:

... now it needs basic football players.

lol... I remember a certain GM arriving and saying this very thing

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Terry Pluto    https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/with-john-dorsey-losing-influence-what-is-the-cleveland-browns-next-move.html

Today 5:01 AM

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Firing coach Freddie Kitchens was the easy part for the Browns.

......No need to detail the problems of the rookie head coach. Fans know all about it after watching their team lose 4 of 5 games to finish 6-10.

The big question is this: What’s next?

That’s right. . . WHAT is next? Not just WHO is next......

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48 minutes ago, mjp28 said:

Terry Pluto    https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/12/with-john-dorsey-losing-influence-what-is-the-cleveland-browns-next-move.html

Today 5:01 AM

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Firing coach Freddie Kitchens was the easy part for the Browns.

......No need to detail the problems of the rookie head coach. Fans know all about it after watching their team lose 4 of 5 games to finish 6-10.

The big question is this: What’s next?

That’s right. . . WHAT is next? Not just WHO is next......

Do you want an answer to that question?   Here is what I surmise:

1. They do hire a new HC

2. Who then hires his coaching staff

3. Who then all go to the combine for scouting

4. Dorsey gets busy trying to get some Free Agents.

5. They have a draft.

6. They go to training camp and have a season next year. 

Did I miss anything? 

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Terry.....

......If the Browns had a front office operating with the full confidence of ownership, next would be General Manager John Dorsey running the search for a coach and hiring his man.

That was the situation a year ago, when Dorsey picked Kitchens. It ended up being a disaster.

That was especially damaging to Dorsey because Chief Operating Officer Paul DePodesta backed Minnesota offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski for the job.

Owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam were enamored with Dorsey a year ago as the team finished strong for a 7-8-1 record. They let him name his coach. It’s a shame it didn’t work out.

I prefer a front office set up with the coach reporting to the general manager, and the GM reporting to ownership.

WHY CHANGE IS COMING

After Kitchens, it’s clear ownership will not be giving Dorsey the same freedom as a year ago. Nor is it fair to fault the Haslams for Kitchens. They allowed Dorsey to make that call.......

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What a media circus going on in Cleveland......again.

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Quote

... another NFL executive told me that not a lot is changing in terms of Dorsey’s role.

Clearly Terry spoke to one too many NFL Execs...

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25 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Or at least the wrong one

WSS

Oh what a trustworthy bunch, execs protecting their turf when it comes to coaching, secrets, draft picks, injury reports, etc, etc, etc......

All graduates of the Bill Belichick School of football business management.  :lol:

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Terry Pluto.  Today 5:01 AM.    https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01/cleveland-browns-coaching-search-has-me-talking-to-myself-3-guys-from-49ers.html

.....For what it’s worth, here’s what Shanahan told the Bay Area media: “I don’t think any of those people (he clashed with) are there anymore. I’m pumped for Saleh to get this opportunity. Mr. and Mrs. Haslam are great people and I think they’re great people to work for. We’ll see how the interview goes for him.”......

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Oh brother !  This just seems so deja vu here we go again. Do we just wait until it's all over and see what happens next?

As I’ve written before, I have “Firing Fatigue.” I bet that’s true of many Browns fans.

......No kidding.

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1 hour ago, mjp28 said:

Oh brother !  This just seems so deja vu here we go again. Do we just wait until it's all over and see what happens next?

As I’ve written before, I have “Firing Fatigue.” I bet that’s true of many Browns fans.

......No kidding.

If you were born from January 1969 on you've never seen the Pittsburgh Steelers fire a head coach. 51+ years.

Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years. 

I'm. Fucking. Exhausted. 

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47 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

If you were born from January 1969 on you've never seen the Pittsburgh Steelers fire a head coach. 51+ years.

Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years. 

I'm. Fucking. Exhausted. 

January 1969 I was finishing year 1 in college, on January 12 Joe Willie Namath beat the Colts in SB III who demolished the BROWNS earlier. MNF wasn't even here until 1970 at the Ol' Muni and the loyal BROWNS faithful we're still flying high.

Fast forward 51+ years and the loyal BROWNS faithful are still flying high......and patiently still waiting and waiting.

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Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years. 

........Not ONE of those guys had successful HC experience BEFORE we hired them or AFTER we fired them, yet the Browns are still barkin' up the same tree!

To quote an old folk song....."When will they ever learn?"

Mike

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39 minutes ago, Canton Mike said:

Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years. 

........Not ONE of those guys had successful HC experience BEFORE we hired them or AFTER we fired them, yet the Browns are still barkin' up the same tree!

To quote an old folk song....."When will they ever learn?"

Mike

Yeah let's try something "new" like hiring someone new......again.

Or maybe coaches with decent experience don't want any part of the post 1999 "new Browns".   That might not be a good thing.   :mellow:

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1 hour ago, Canton Mike said:

Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years. 

........Not ONE of those guys had successful HC experience BEFORE we hired them or AFTER we fired them, yet the Browns are still barkin' up the same tree!

To quote an old folk song....."When will they ever learn?"

Mike

What was Mangini's record with the Jets?    I know that Jackson was 8-8 with the Raiders.....a team that seemingly overachieved to attain that record.   It is certainly hard to judge.

Take the hiring of Mike Holmgren.....successful as HC at GB....and as HC at Seattle...and fair success as GM at Seattle.    We figured we would bring him in here and he could work some of his magic.   And we know how that all turned out. 

So, past success as we have seen does not guarantee future success.   Nor, as we have seen does past failure guarantee future failure   We have also seen that neither having past HC experience......nor NOT having past HC experience has helped.

So...it seems, there is NO formula for getting this right.    I mean, what then is one to do, other than to try to find the right people regardless of past credentials, I guess. 

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55 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

What was Mangini's record with the Jets?    I know that Jackson was 8-8 with the Raiders.....a team that seemingly overachieved to attain that record.   It is certainly hard to judge.

Take the hiring of Mike Holmgren.....successful as HC at GB....and as HC at Seattle...and fair success as GM at Seattle.    We figured we would bring him in here and he could work some of his magic.   And we know how that all turned out. 

So, past success as we have seen does not guarantee future success.   Nor, as we have seen does past failure guarantee future failure   We have also seen that neither having past HC experience......nor NOT having past HC experience has helped.

So...it seems, there is NO formula for getting this right.    I mean, what then is one to do, other than to try to find the right people regardless of past credentials, I guess. 

There are no guarantees but if I am playing the odds and going for the safest bet I would go with past proven successful NFL head coaches certainly over those who were past failures or the coordinators who have never been a HC.

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4 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

There are no guarantees but if I am playing the odds and going for the safest bet I would go with past proven successful NFL head coaches certainly over those who were past failures or the coordinators who have never been a HC.

That seems a reasonable approach.   It has certainly not been a universally successful approach....but it seems reasonable. 

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3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01/how-can-jimmy-haslam-find-alignment-terrys-talkin-cleveland-browns.html

Just a few hours ago. By the way as to previous comment I was okay with giving Mancini another term.

WSS

Henry....or Ray "Boom Bomm?    ☺️

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4 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Typo

I know but it gave me the chance to mention those two Northeast Ohio area personalities 

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On 1/3/2020 at 7:40 PM, Dutch Oven said:

Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson, Freddie Kitchens. All fired in the last 20 years. 

Looking at the list for "Leaders" I see only one... Butch... with two possible, Honorable Mentions, Mangini and Pet, albeit in an entirely different, quieter "style" on their part. The rest were all the Hot Coordinator du jour except for Hue who was the HC weasel du siecle.

Butch seemed to have the presence, the personality, the command.... his self-inflicted misfortune was he also had the GM role.

 

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6 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Looking at the list for "Leaders" I see only one... Butch... with two possible, Honorable Mentions, Mangini and Pet, albeit in an entirely different, quieter "style" on their part. The rest were all the Hot Coordinator du jour except for Hue who was the HC weasel du siecle.

Butch seemed to have the presence, the personality, the command.... his self-inflicted misfortune was he also had the GM role.

 

Leaders, for another generalization who since the 1980s has got them near or into the playoffs?  Not many since Billy B.

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CLEVELAND, Ohio — Talking to myself about where the Browns stand with their coaching search:

QUESTION: All the other teams have their coaches, isn’t that a good thing for the Browns?

ANSWER: If they do it right, that’s true.

Q: Meaning what?.......

 

 

 

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Just a step back from all of this Browns and other stuff, from Terry Pluto.   https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/2020/01/faith-you-what-me-worry-well-sometimes-i-do-now-what.html

CLEVELAND – On my facebook page, I asked readers a few questions about worry, including “What is the dumbest thing you’ve worried about?”........

Good read.

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From Terry .......   https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/01/was-it-a-good-idea-for-cleveland-browns-to-pick-kevin-stefanski-over-josh-mcdaniels.html

1.  Based on my emails, very few Browns fans are thrilled with the hiring of Kevin Stefanski as the team’s new head coach. That’s understandable. Who really knows if the 37-year former Minnesota offensive coordinator can do the job?.......

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