What Does The Bible Say About False Accusers And #BelieveWomen?

[jbluhm86]

51 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Let's be real honest no matter what I posted would have been sufficient. I don't want to go down dueling google links road again. 

You are the one who created this thread, on a public message board, to extol the supposed virtues of the Christian religion. What you say or do or believe in the privacy of your own home or church is not my business; i'm not going around bursting into churches during Sunday services to debate atheism with the congregation. But you open your views to debate and criticism once you bring them into the public forum.

 

[OldBrownsFan]

One day we will all know soon enough what is truth and what is false. Life is incredibly short in measured to eternity and we will all face physical death soon enough. We are living in the end times. The clock started ticking with Israel in 1948. How many nations have disappeared for a couple thousand years and then return as a nation? I can only think of one. The one that was foretold in the bible. And now we see the world turning against this tiny nation. The destruction spoken of in Revelation was so great that for many centuries it was believed only God  could  do them but all the destruction spoke of in Revelation lines up perfectly with the results of a nuclear war. 

In his book There’s A New World Coming (1973), Hal Lindsey writes:

“Although it is possible for God to supernaturally pull off every miracle in the Book of Revelation and use totally unheard of means to do it, I personally believe that all the enormous ecological catastrophes described in this chapter (Revelation 😎 are the direct result of nuclear weapons. In actuality, man inflicts these judgments on himself. God simply steps back and removes His restraining influence from man, allowing him to do what comes naturally out of his sinful nature. In fact, if the Book of Revelation had never been written, we might well predict these very catastrophes within fifty years or less!”

 

The Apostle John’s description of the sun becoming black as sack cloth and the moon becoming like blood perfectly describes the phenomena that would result from massive amounts of dust and debris blown into the sky by multiple nuclear bursts.

“And the atmosphere was pushed apart like a scroll when it is rolled together”(Revelation 6:14). Do you know what happens in a nuclear explosion? The atmosphere rolls back on itself! It’s this tremendous rush of air back into the vacuum that causes much of the destruction of a nuclear explosion. John’s words in this verse are a perfect picture of an all out nuclear exchange… The whole world will be literally shaken apart!

As we read the book of Revelation, we find John did not use terms like “nuclear weapons, ICBM’s, or fractional orbital bombs.” Instead we find him describing things like “hail and fire,” “a great mountain burning with fire,” and “a great star… burning like a torch.” This is what we would expect of a First Century man, describing things he had no knowledge of in the only terms he knew to use. Could it be that what John was really witnessing in the Spirit, was an end of the age nuclear holocaust? The effects he describes certainly seem to bear this out.

 

It should be evident that what we are talking about is a weapon unparalleled in human history; a weapon with the capacity to obliterate huge cities in seconds. This is a scenario that perfectly fits with the kind of swift, mass destruction spoken of in the book of Revelation. Indeed, considering the widespread death predicted by John, it would be hard for us to imagine anything other than a nuclear holocaust which could come close to producing such carnage.

The poisoning of the waters (Revelation 8:11), the severe reduction in visibility (Revelation 8:12), the death of much of the earth’s vegetation (Revelation 8:7), malignant sores (Revelation 16:2), the end of ocean life (Revelation 16:3), and the inability of the atmosphere to block out harmful ultraviolet rays, resulting in severe burns (Revelation 16:8) are all expected results of nuclear war. The implications of these prophecies is not pretty — this earth has an appointment with a devastation which shall be horrible beyond imagination.

Is There Any Hope?

Up to this point the picture seems grim and hopeless. And in a certain way it is. There is no hope for this present evil age. It is under a death sentence from Almighty God. The flood of hatred, violence, immorality, abortion, homosexuality, and the mockery of all that is good and holy will finally produce a response from heaven. God has decreed that this present evil age shall pass away in a flame of fire, death, and judgment. No amount of peace talks, goodwill conferences, or think tanks will be able to change that.

Likewise those who refuse to repent and turn to Christ are in a hopeless situation. There is no peace or security for those who determine to live life by their own rules. When God’s wrath begins to fall, it will overtake the rich and the poor, the celebrities along with the unknown, the sophisticates with the simpletons. No hiding place on earth, no amount of wealth or prestige, no measure of cleverness or ingenuity will be able to spare people from the wrath to come.

The good news in all of this is that God has always provided a hiding place whenever He poured out His wrath. In Noah’s flood, that safety was found in the ark. In the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot was told to flee to the mountains. Rahab found safety from the destruction of her city by staying in her house with a scarlet cord tied to the window.

In these last days God’s hiding place will be found, not in a cave in the mountains, not in a mammoth ark, but in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. It was on His Cross that Jesus took the wrath of God upon Himself, in order that those who would put their trust in Him might be spared. The Scriptures tell us, “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thessalonians 5:9). For those whose godly lives reveal that they have truly placed their faith in Jesus, He will come and take them unto Himself.

http://christinprophecy.org/articles/nuclear-weapons-in-the-end-times/

[calfoxwc]

25 minutes ago, jbluhm86 said:

You are the one who created this thread, on a public message board, to extol the supposed virtues of the Christian religion. What you say or do or believe in the privacy of your own home or church is not my business; i'm not going around bursting into churches during Sunday services to debate atheism with the congregation. But you open your views to debate and criticism once you bring them into the public forum.

 

the trouble is, the "debate" is politically motivated, narrow in scope, and it reeks of liberal elderberries.

Instead of just attacking others' beliefs, why not just post your OWN BELIEFS or NON-BELIEFS?

[jbluhm86]

2 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

...As much as you try to hate on Jesus His teachings were the opposite of your hate. Here is a quote from the Old Testament that is one of my favorites: And if it seem evil for you to serve the Lord choose you this day whom you will serve but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord...

And here are a few quotes from the Bible that caught my attention, and are pertinent to the subject at hand:

• Judges 21:10-24:

  10 And the congregation sent thither twelve thousand men of the valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the children.

  11 And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man.

  12 And they found among the inhabitants of Jabeshgilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male: and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan.

  13 And the whole congregation sent some to speak to the children of Benjamin that were in the rock Rimmon, and to call peaceably unto them.

  14 And Benjamin came again at that time; and they gave them wives which they had saved alive of the women of Jabeshgilead: and yet so they sufficed them not.

  15 And the people repented them for Benjamin, because that the Lord had made a breach in the tribes of Israel.

  16 Then the elders of the congregation said, How shall we do for wives for them that remain, seeing the women are destroyed out of Benjamin?

  17 And they said, There must be an inheritance for them that be escaped of Benjamin, that a tribe be not destroyed out of Israel.

  18 Howbeit we may not give them wives of our daughters: for the children of Israel have sworn, saying, Cursed be he that giveth a wife to Benjamin.

  19 Then they said, Behold, there is a feast of the Lord in Shiloh yearly in a place which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goeth up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south of Lebonah.

  20 Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards;

  21 And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.

  22 And it shall be, when their fathers or their brethren come unto us to complain, that we will say unto them, Be favourable unto them for our sakes: because we reserved not to each man his wife in the war: for ye did not give unto them at this time, that ye should be guilty.

  23 And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught: and they went and returned unto their inheritance, and repaired the cities, and dwelt in them.

  24 And the children of Israel departed thence at that time, every man to his tribe and to his family, and they went out from thence every man to his inheritance.

 

• Numbers 31:7-18:

  7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

  8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

  9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

  10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

  11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

  12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

  13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

  14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

  15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

  16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

  17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

  18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

 

• Deuteronomy 20:10-14:

  10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

  11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

  12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

  13 And when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

  14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.

 

• Zechariah 14:1-2: 

  1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

  2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

 

It seems that the God of the Old Testament is pretty clear on where he stands on the treatment of women by his chosen people: if they are lucky enough to have already been deflowered, they are killed by the Israelites along with their husbands, parents and male children. If they had the misfortune of being virgins, they were to be taken away as spoils of war, raped and forced into marriages or sexual slavery with the very people who pillaged their lands in the first place. All of which happens, btw, under the indifferent eye of God at the least, or at the worst, an approving and commanding eye of God. And the Jews and Christians have the tenacity to feign indignation against ISIS for their use of the Koran to justify the taking of sex slaves? Its all rotten fruit from the same poisonous tree.

Again, OBF, i'll call your attention to what I posted earlier in the thread: Jesus himself endorsed the Old Testament teachings and believed that the actions written in it were true and divinely inspired  - that is to say, that Jesus himself believe the events described above happened as stated, and that they were directed and inspired by God himself; that the rape and pillaging of young women and their homes by Jesus' own people not only happened, but happened under divine warrant. And since Jesus is of God, whether him being the Son of God, an aspect of God, or God himself incarnated into human flesh, he, by extension, agreed with God and condoned the atrocities committed against women by divine direction.

And this is the leader of a religion whom you say I should square my moral compass with in regards to women and potential rape? How you can say that with a straight face and clear conscience is beyond my understanding.

[jbluhm86]

26 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

the trouble is, the "debate" is politically motivated, narrow in scope, and it reeks of liberal elderberries.

Instead of just attacking others' beliefs, why not just post your OWN BELIEFS or NON-BELIEFS?

Wow, politically motivated debate on a political message board? What a concept...

And, if you've been reading along with the rest of your classmates, I have been posting about my "beliefs" when it comes to religion. Do keep up.

[OldBrownsFan]

Why did God condone such terrible violence in the Old Testament?

Answer: The fact that God commanded the killing of entire nations in the Old Testament has been the subject of harsh criticism from opponents of Christianity for some time. That there was violence in the Old Testament is indisputable. The question is whether Old Testament violence is justifiable and condoned by God. In his bestselling book The God Delusion, atheist Richard Dawkins refers to the God of the Old Testament as “a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser.” Journalist Christopher Hitchens complains that the Old Testament contains a warrant for “indiscriminate massacre.” Other critics of Christianity have leveled similar charges, accusing Yahweh of “crimes against humanity.”

But are these criticisms valid? Is the God of the Old Testament a “moral monster” who arbitrarily commands genocide against innocent men, women, and children? Was His reaction to the sins of the Canaanites and the Amalekites a vicious form of “ethnic cleansing” no different from atrocities committed by the Nazis? Or is it possible that God could have had morally sufficient reasons for ordering the destruction of these nations?

A basic knowledge of Canaanite culture reveals its inherent moral wickedness. The Canaanites were a brutal, aggressive people who engaged in bestiality, incest, and even child sacrifice. Deviant sexual acts were the norm. The Canaanites’ sin was so repellent that God said, “The land vomited out its inhabitants” (Leviticus 18:25). Even so, the destruction was directed more at the Canaanite religion (Deuteronomy 7:3–5,12:2-3) than at the Canaanite people per se. The judgment was not ethnically motivated. Individual Canaanites, like Rahab in Jericho, could still find that mercy follows repentance (Joshua 2). God's desire is that the wicked turn from their sin rather than die (Ezekiel 18:31-32, 33:11).

Besides dealing with national sins, God used the conquest of Canaan to create a religious/historical context in which He could eventually introduce the Messiah to the world. This Messiah would bring salvation not only to Israel, but also to Israel’s enemies, including Canaan (Psalm 87:4-6; Mark 7:25–30).

It must be remembered that God gave the Canaanite people more than sufficient time to repent of their evil ways—over 400 years (Genesis 15:13–16)! The book of Hebrews tells us that the Canaanites were “disobedient,” which implies moral culpability on their part (Hebrews 11:31). The Canaanites were aware of God's power (Joshua 2:10–11; 9:9) and could have sought repentance. Except in rare instances, they continued their rebellion against God until the bitter end.

But didn’t God also command the Israelites to kill non-combatants? The biblical record is clear that He did. Here again, we must remember that, while it is true the Canaanite women did not fight, this in no way means they were innocent, as their seductive behavior in Numbers 25indicates (Numbers 25:1–3). However, the question still remains: what about the children? This is not an easy question to answer, but we must keep several things in mind. First, no human person (including infants) is truly innocent. The Scripture teaches that we are all born in sin (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). This implies that all people are morally culpable for Adam’s sin in some way. Infants are just as condemned from sin as adults are.

Second, God is sovereign over all of life and can take it whenever He sees fit. God and God alone can give life, and God alone has the right to take it whenever He so chooses. In fact, He ultimately takes every person's life at death. It is not our life to begin with but God’s. While it is wrong for us to take a life, except in instances of capital punishment, war, and self-defense, this does not mean that it is wrong for God to do so. We intuitively recognize this when we accuse some person or authority who takes human life as "playing God." God is under no obligation to extend anyone's life for even another day. How and when we die is completely up to Him.

Third, an argument could be made that it would have been cruel for God to take the lives of all the Canaanites except the infants and children. Without the protection and support of their parents, the infants and small children were likely to face death anyway due to starvation. The chances of survival for an orphan in the ancient Near East were not good.

Finally, the children of Canaan would have likely grown up as followers of the same evil religions their parents had practiced. It was time for the culture of idolatry and perversion to end in Canaan, and God wanted to use Israel to end it. Also, the orphaned children of Canaan would naturally have grown up resentful of the Israelites. Likely, some would have later sought to avenge the “unjust” treatment of their parents and return Canaan to paganism.

It’s also worth considering the eternal state of those infants killed in Canaan. If God took them before the age of moral accountability, then they went straight to heaven (as we believe). Those children are in a far better place than if they had lived into adulthood as Canaanites.

Surely, the issue of God commanding violence in the Old Testament is difficult. However, we must remember that God sees things from an eternal perspective, and His ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8–9). The apostle Paul tells us that God is both kind and severe (Romans 11:22). While it is true that God's holy character demands that sin be punished, His grace and mercy remain extended to those who are willing to repent and be saved. The Canaanite destruction provides us with a sober reminder that, while our God is gracious and merciful, He is also a God of holiness and wrath.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-violence.html
 

[jbluhm86]

So God condoned and encouraged the pillaging and genocide of entire civilizations - while selling off their virgin daughters to be raped, impregnated and forced into marriages or sexual slavery with the very people who killed their families and people - just to lay the foundation for his plan to send his Son/himself in human form to be killed in some human sacrifice to forgive the sins of the people he instructed to commit these attrocites in the first place? How you can hold your head high and proudly enslave yourself to such a being and the belief that he is perfect and just is beyond me.

The physicist Steven Weinberg was once quoted as saying that religion "is an insult to human dignity; with or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion". I think you just demonstrated his point for him, OBF, without a hint of regret or remorse. This, coming from a man who presumably has daughters and granddaughters of his own. 

To Cal and OBF, you ask why I hate religion? What OBF just posted is a prime example. Religion takes an ordinary and morally upright man - who'd rightly be devastated and enraged if rape or marriage to pillaging barbarians was unwilling forced upon females of his own family, and who can objectively and unequivocally believe that rape is wrong - and somehow poisons his mind to a point where he can rationalize and condone the same atrocities, all in the name of his religion. This is the true danger that civilization faces from religious dogma, and OBF just put it on full display for all to see.

[OldBrownsFan]

WHY SO MUCH WAR IN THE OLD TESTAMENT?

Let’s take this seriously by quoting a few verses that seem repugnant to us. For example, Deuteronomy 20 contains Yahweh’s instructions about war. If a city does not accept Israel’s offer of peace and open its gates, then “when the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it” (verse13). With regard to other cities, the command is (verse 16), “Do not leave anything that breathes.”

You probably also recall that the walls of Jericho came tumbling down, and then the Israelites “destroyed with the sword every living thing in it – men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, and donkeys” (Joshua 6:21). This certainly seems brutal and vindictive, doesn’t it? Or consider Joshua 11:20, “For it was the Lord himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the Lord had commanded Moses.” From our twenty-first century point of view, we ask, “What good was accomplished by all this annihilation?”

Yet there is clearly another side to Yahweh as well. While the prophet Ezekiel does not spare the wicked in his denunciations, he also records Yahweh’s words of grace: “If a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die” Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?” (Ezekiel 18:21, 23). And he goes on in verse 32, “For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!” And there is this compelling verse recorded in 2 Chronicles 16:9, “For the eyes of the Lord range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him.”

All these descriptions of God depict him as unwavering in retribution on evil, though he takes no delight in it, and also unwavering in love and encouragement toward those hearts are turned toward him. God’s obvious desire is that sinners should repent and live. But there comes a point where evil is finally intolerable and wiped from off the earth.

We must see these terrible retributions in their historical setting. The spread of wickedness was so pervasive that immorality, degradation, and barbarity invaded every facet of life. Children were sacrificed to pagan gods. Male and female prostitution took place right in the temple as part of the religious rites. Idol worship was rife and the society wholly contaminated. This evil was contagious and God’s people were in danger of being infected as well. God’s awesome judgement was finally unleashed.

Today we have lost that black and white distinction between good and evil. Tolerance is presented as the great religious value. Indeed, tolerance of diversity is a high Christian value, but often today tolerance is taken to mean the virtue of accepting nearly every behavior under the sun. Anything goes – in the name of tolerance! A sweeping moral relativism is the result, and children grow up with fewer and fewer moral absolutes to guide them. We seldom hear the term sin anymore, but instead a dozen much milder words are employed. Surely the Lord will not tolerate this abomination to his holiness forever.

Nor do we like to accept the fact that when evil spreads, the innocent as well as the guilty are hurt. When the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, the city died, both the innocent and the guilty. A few days later, as a direct result, the war came to an end. It was a terrible end, but it was the end, and greater carnage was avoided. Let’s be clear about this stricter and more communal view of justice in the Bible. The Canaanite pagan communities would surely intermarry with the Israelites, and God’s people were in danger of succumbing to their sexual perversions and religious degradation. Finally, the danger became just too much.

The entire Bible from beginning to end never deviates from this standard of justice as well as grace. Jesus is crystal clear about the punishment of evildoers, for on the day of judgement God will say to the evildoers, “Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41). Our society does not much care to hear about pain and punishment, and prefers the meek and mild Jesus of some contemporary writers. But the God of the New Testament is the changeless God of the ages.
And in that affirmation lies our only hope. Clearly we have all missed the mark. Each of us stumbles, and wounds, and sins. Even the most godly affirm that over and over. In God’s enduring justice, he never simply blinks casually at sin. But that is not the end of the story, nor even the overriding theme of the Bible. For as humanity spirals deeper into self-gratification, God intervenes. Indeed, the Old Testament is a record of God’s intervening in the human situation with a new promise of hope. The New Testament is the record of grace applied to people lost in sin and rebellion. There was no compulsion placed on God to undertake this rescue operation. But the plan was and is indescribably marvelous. God did not forget about guilt and justice. Rather, Jesus Christ, the God-man, took on himself the punishment and so satisfied the grisly sentence. This is what Christians call grace. The Bible is mainly a record of grace, set against a backdrop of horror and misery.

This is an ageless and eternal story, persisting into this new millennium. The evil surrounding us seems to be growing and moral apathy seeps in everywhere. But still God’s grace shines through. His love persists. He calls and calls until the very last moment. Have you discovered his grace? It’s there – available for you to live in every day.

https://www.biblica.com/resources/bible-faqs/why-so-much-war-in-the-old-testament/

[tiamat63]

Not here to take a side as I really don't care but I do notice JB formulating more posts without the need to para-phrase or link his entire argument.  I.E. many of his words, while perhaps inspired, are still his.  OBF retorts with links only and no synopsis of his own.  

Not a good look is all I'm saying 

[Clevfan4life]

yeah i noticed that too. Most of the conservatives here do that. Its the hallmark of spoonfed sheep who have never critically thought about much un their entire lives.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

51 minutes ago, Clevfan4life said:

yeah i noticed that too. Most of the conservatives here do that. Its the hallmark of spoonfed sheep who have never critically thought about much un their entire lives.

[jbluhm86]

On 10/9/2018 at 3:05 PM, OldBrownsFan said:

I am all for choice except when the choice is the right to kill a baby in the womb. 

 

4 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

Why did God condone such terrible violence in the Old Testament?

...But didn’t God also command the Israelites to kill non-combatants? The biblical record is clear that He did. Here again, we must remember that, while it is true the Canaanite women did not fight, this in no way means they were innocent, as their seductive behavior in Numbers 25indicates (Numbers 25:1–3). However, the question still remains: what about the children? This is not an easy question to answer, but we must keep several things in mind. First, no human person (including infants) is truly innocent. The Scripture teaches that we are all born in sin (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). This implies that all people are morally culpable for Adam’s sin in some way. Infants are just as condemned from sin as adults are.

Second, God is sovereign over all of life and can take it whenever He sees fit. God and God alone can give life, and God alone has the right to take it whenever He so chooses. In fact, He ultimately takes every person's life at death. It is not our life to begin with but God’s. While it is wrong for us to take a life, except in instances of capital punishment, war, and self-defense, this does not mean that it is wrong for God to do so. We intuitively recognize this when we accuse some person or authority who takes human life as "playing God." God is under no obligation to extend anyone's life for even another day. How and when we die is completely up to Him.

Third, an argument could be made that it would have been cruel for God to take the lives of all the Canaanites except the infants and children. Without the protection and support of their parents, the infants and small children were likely to face death anyway due to starvation. The chances of survival for an orphan in the ancient Near East were not good.

Finally, the children of Canaan would have likely grown up as followers of the same evil religions their parents had practiced. It was time for the culture of idolatry and perversion to end in Canaan, and God wanted to use Israel to end it. Also, the orphaned children of Canaan would naturally have grown up resentful of the Israelites. Likely, some would have later sought to avenge the “unjust” treatment of their parents and return Canaan to paganism.

It’s also worth considering the eternal state of those infants killed in Canaan. If God took them before the age of moral accountability, then they went straight to heaven (as we believe). Those children are in a far better place than if they had lived into adulthood as Canaanites.

Surely, the issue of God commanding violence in the Old Testament is difficult. However, we must remember that God sees things from an eternal perspective, and His ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8–9). The apostle Paul tells us that God is both kind and severe (Romans 11:22). While it is true that God's holy character demands that sin be punished, His grace and mercy remain extended to those who are willing to repent and be saved. The Canaanite destruction provides us with a sober reminder that, while our God is gracious and merciful, He is also a God of holiness and wrath.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Old-Testament-violence.html
 

 

i sincerely hope that you posted this without reading what it actually contained. If not, and this is your actual belief, then your stance on abortion is hypocritical. You state abortion is murder, but what about the murder of already born children because they are in mortal sin of Adam, or because they'd die because they were orphaned by the forces of God, or because they'd supposedly go to a better place?

Yet another demonstration on how religious belief can poison and corrupt an otherwise normal person into being able to rationalize away the most horrible of atrocities as long as they believe it was under instruction from "heaven". And these are the rules i'm supposed to derive my moral values from? N'thanks.

[Clevfan4life]

also, i take great issue with obf's post that declares the cannaanites this great evil people so naturally god would condone the same great evils done to them and their women and children enslaved blah blah blah. Couple reasons... 

1) The only account we have of the cannaanites are from the people that wanted their land. Not exactly objective

2) The actual anthropological science says that all the people, not just the cannaanites, lived peacefully. They found no weapons, fortifications etc, etc....nor any of the hallmarks of an aggressive war/violence oriebted society.

its all the boolshit writings of hebrews. Speaking of, wgat u wrote ibf sounded a hell of alot like the bazi propaganda against jews in ww2

[OldBrownsFan]

2 hours ago, jbluhm86 said:

 

 

i sincerely hope that you posted this without reading what it actually contained. If not, and this is your actual belief, then your stance on abortion is hypocritical. You state abortion is murder, but what about the murder of already born children because they are in mortal sin of Adam, or because they'd die because they were orphaned by the forces of God, or because they'd supposedly go to a better place?

Yet another demonstration on how religious belief can poison and corrupt an otherwise normal person into being able to rationalize away the most horrible of atrocities as long as they believe it was under instruction from "heaven". And these are the rules i'm supposed to derive my moral values from? N'thanks.

In the cities that God had given Israel to live in the people in those cities were given a choice. They could stay and fight (and lose) or they could move out. This was the land given to Israel by God. This were their inheritance promised to them by God approximately 500 years earlier. Those inhabitants who chose to stay and fight would suffer their own loss. God gave a reason why they were to leave no survivors. If any were left alive they would grow up and teach Israel their pagan ways. Could one person left alive really sway an entire nation?  One person, Adolf Hitler swayed an entire nation. God had a plan to make a nation out of Israel out which the Messiah would come to be savior of the entire earth. 

[StinkHole]

Stuart

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan

Nothing in WIKI suggest Israel annihilated the Canaanites...WIKI states this claim is not accepted by contemporary scholarship.

This article makes the claim that the Lebanese are the descendants of the Canaanites based on DNA testing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/bible-canaanites-wiped-out-old-testament-israelites-lebanon-descendants-discovered-science-dna-a7862936.html

 

[Clevfan4life]

2 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

In the cities that God had given Israel to live in the people in those cities were given a choice. They could stay and fight (and lose) or they could move out. This was the land given to Israel by God. Those who chose to stay and fight would suffer their own loss. God gave a reason why they were to leave no survivors. If any were left alive they would grow up and teach Israel their pagan ways. God had a plan to make a nation out of Israel out which the Messiah would come to be savior of the entire earth. 

and now we know not just who, but "what" obf is. Im sure most of us already surmised it, but that post there confirms it. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

1 minute ago, Clevfan4life said:

and now we know not just who, but "what" obf is. Im sure most of us already surmised it, but that post there confirms it. 

Shmuck you Nazi pig.

[OldBrownsFan]

1 minute ago, Clevfan4life said:

and now we know not just who, but "what" obf is. Im sure most of us already surmised it, but that post there confirms it. 

I think I have posted enough that most know I believe the bible.

[Clevfan4life]

this is the historucal corruption of the soul of man staring u right in the face guys. This predates christianity and the OT btw. This is the willful ignorance of the "light". In star wars terms this is dark side sht....hope my jedi brethren here see it

[StinkHole]

Stuart

LOL..

Reading up on Canaan in WIKI I ran across "climate change":

Canaanite civilization was a response to long periods of stable climate interrupted by short periods of climate change.  During these periods, Canaanites profited from their intermediary position between the ancient civilizations of the Middle East

Periods of rapid climate change generally saw a collapse of this mixed Mediterranean farming system;

 

What do you say Cleve...suv's? factories? goat farts?

[StinkHole]

Stuart

Funny yet so fitting this video by Zo on Satan , accusations, and God.

"Satan" means "the accuser".

Satan, also known as the Devil, is an entity in the Abrahamic religions that seduces humans ... The original Hebrew term sâtan (Hebrew: שָּׂטָן ) is a generic noun meaning "accuser" or "adversary

 

 

[Clevfan4life]

3 hours ago, DieHardBrownsFan said:

Shmuck you Nazi pig.

i thought i was a commie? now im a nazi? cognitive dissonance much?

 

ps: a nazi cannot be a commie and vice versa. The nazi party actually dissolved the socialist party when they came to power. 

[Westside Steve]

The Nazis were left-wing socialists. Yes, the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany, otherwise known as the Nazi Party, was indeed socialist and it had a lot in common with the modern left. Hitler preached class warfare, agitating the working class to resist “exploitation” by capitalists , particularly Jewish capitalists, of course. Their programs called for the nationalization of education, health care, transportation, and other major industries. They instituted and vigorously enforced a strict gun control regimen. They encouraged pornography, illegitimacy, and abortion, and they denounced Christians as right-wing fanatics. Yet a popular myth persists that the Nazis themselves were right-wing extremists. This insidious lie biases the entire political landscape today.

[MLD Woody]

5 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

In the cities that God had given Israel to live in the people in those cities were given a choice. They could stay and fight (and lose) or they could move out. This was the land given to Israel by God. This were their inheritance promised to them by God approximately 500 years earlier. Those inhabitants who chose to stay and fight would suffer their own loss. God gave a reason why they were to leave no survivors. If any were left alive they would grow up and teach Israel their pagan ways. Could one person left alive really sway an entire nation?  One person, Adolf Hitler swayed an entire nation. God had a plan to make a nation out of Israel out which the Messiah would come to be savior of the entire earth. 

This is insane

This is low key the Christian version of the Muslim terrorists you hate

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

The Nazis were left-wing socialists. Yes, the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany, otherwise known as the Nazi Party, was indeed socialist and it had a lot in common with the modern left. Hitler preached class warfare, agitating the working class to resist “exploitation” by capitalists , particularly Jewish capitalists, of course. Their programs called for the nationalization of education, health care, transportation, and other major industries. They instituted and vigorously enforced a strict gun control regimen. They encouraged pornography, illegitimacy, and abortion, and they denounced Christians as right-wing fanatics. Yet a popular myth persists that the Nazis themselves were right-wing extremists. This insidious lie biases the entire political landscape today.

Source?

[Clevfan4life]

l

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

The Nazis were left-wing socialists. Yes, the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany, otherwise known as the Nazi Party, was indeed socialist and it had a lot in common with the modern left. Hitler preached class warfare, agitating the working class to resist “exploitation” by capitalists , particularly Jewish capitalists, of course. Their programs called for the nationalization of education, health care, transportation, and other major industries. They instituted and vigorously enforced a strict gun control regimen. They encouraged pornography, illegitimacy, and abortion, and they denounced Christians as right-wing fanatics. Yet a popular myth persists that the Nazis themselves were right-wing extremists. This insidious lie biases the entire political landscape today.

lol, where did u get that? i have great grandparents on one side of the family that were in the nazi party when it first firmed but then not just left the party byt left the country when hitler took over. Hitler "hated" the socialists. Had he not arrogantly opened the eastern front we very well might be speaking german to each other. At the very least we absolutely would have fought nazi euro trash here on our side of the hemisphere

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, Clevfan4life said:

l

lol, where did u get that? i have great grandparents on one side of the family that were in the nazi party when it first firmed but then not just left the party byt left the country when hitler took over. Hitler "hated" the socialists. Had he not arrogantly opened the eastern front we very well might be speaking german to each other. At the very least we absolutely would have fought nazi euro trash here on our side of the hemisphere

Would you be surprised that if you google his full post, the first result is Snopes? And that the paragraph is originally from a right wing blog?

[Clevfan4life]

2 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Would you be surprised that if you google his full post, the first result is Snopes? And that the paragraph is originally from a right wing blog?

no it wouldnt, not in the slightest.

[Clevfan4life]

"Through the 1920s, Hitler gave speech after speech in which he stated that unemployment, rampant inflation, hunger and economic stagnation in postwar Germany would continue until there was a total revolution in German life. Most problems could be solved, he explained, if communists and Jews were driven from the nation. His fiery speeches swelled the ranks of the Nazi Party, especially among young, economically disadvantaged Germans."

 

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

https://mises.org/wire/nazis-were-not-marxists-they-were-socialists