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A Case For Hue

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Before I get into this, let me say that I’m not a Hue fan.  Over his first 32 games, his play calling, clock management, etc.were awful.  

This year?  Game 1 should have been a win if we had a placekicker (Dorsey).  Game 2 should have been a win if we had a placekicker (Dorsey).  Game 4 should have been a win if we had not been robbed by the refs.  We’re 1-2-1, but could be 4-0.

I still don’t like Hue.  But I don’t like him less than I used to.

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Good way to say Hue hasn’t done better but he hasn’t done worse. Dorsey also has made some head scratchers for sure, but he’s also hit on this draft on the picks we needed to hit on. Baker and Denzel and Avery are game changers.

 

How about some Sashi Brown Love? That dude built the foundation. Garret, Schobert, Ogunjobi, Ogbah, Higgins, Kindred all look good and are contributing. Jury still out on Ndropku and Peppers.

another Dorsey draft and this team is gon Be goooood

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I read we were doing kicker tryouts this week.

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I think we all just need a sacrificial lamb after those frustrating finishes in three of four games.

I want special teams coach Amos Jone's head on a stick.

Z

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Btw, I'm not sure Zane Gonzalez is ALL on Dorsey.

Sashi drafted him, Jones coached him said "he's good to go", Hugh said OK, and Dorsey said OK.

It's a total organizational failure that this injured headcase kicker was sent out to win our first two games.

Z

 

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9 hours ago, TypicalBrowns50 said:

How about some Sashi Brown Love? That dude built the foundation. Garret, Schobert, Ogunjobi, Ogbah, Higgins, Kindred all look good and are contributing. Jury still out on Ndropku and Peppers.

 

Nope. Dude ran the franchise through the mud for two years.

Lost our all pro RT for peanuts. Let the leading WR on his team walk to pay Kenny Britt the same amount. Passed on like 4 franchise QB's.....

Out of that list you gave, I'll give him Schobert and Ogunjobi. Garrett could have been drafted by a 12 year old Madden player, Higgins and Kindred..... meh. Plus we got Kindred because we passed on Wentz....

Again, a 12 year old Madden player could have done what he did. 

Thanks for nothing Sashi. 

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My only problem with Hue is that we're 1-9-1 in games decided by 3 points or less.  Some of that HAS to be coaching, right?  I'm in the camp of "Keep Hue No Matter What", so I'm not saying to get rid of him, but Jesus.  You think you'd at least get LUCKY more than that, right?

Wrong.

I can easily make the argument that Hue didn't cost us a win in MOST of those games.  I mean, God forbid we have a good kicker.  God forbid we have a defense that stops people before their inevitable game-winning drive.  This goes back FAR beyond Hue Jackson.  I can think of a ton of games where we simply didn't make the play to win the game.  It's the same story, regardless of our coach.  You remember Brandon Weeden's first game?  He played ATROCIOUS, and it was week 1 against the Eagles, in Cleveland.  We were still somehow in position to win the game, and our linebacker dropped the easiest game-clinching interception you'll ever see.  Ever.  Next play?  I think it was 4th down...Vick throws an easy score to win.  

That's what we do.  And we need to stop it.  I just don't see how.  

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^^^^^ A somewhat related example on the above, somehow some coaches' teams just seem to pull out more than they lose close games whether it's professoonal or college.

Like somehow Vince Lombardi or Paul Brown even Urban Meyer and Jim Tressel just got that big win in the fourth quarter. Better talent, coaching, planning, staff, "winning attitude"? Hey it just happens.

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Here is a case for Hue......because he has been such a pile of She-ite

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I think Hue needs to go simply because.. This team lacks discipline...

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2 minutes ago, nickers said:

I think Hue needs to go simply because.. This team lacks discipline...

I doubt that he will:

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I mean, I think the discipline has been somewhat better, no?  At least in terms of penalties, right?  I don't have the numbers ON ME, but I don't remember penalties being a real killer against Oakland.  I don't have any way to quantify this, but I have this feeling at the end of almost every game that we're going to choke, and that the other team is going to do what it takes.  Basically, the same thing that Terrell Suggs said.  Funny thing is, I didn't feel that way against the Jets once we had the lead.  I wasn't scared of them going down the field AT ALL.  But with Derek Carr?  Yeah, that was over.  

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One item in favor of Hue: Desmond Harrison.  He's good - 84.9 last game in passpro, 68.1 in run support.

Also let's don't get too excited about Avery every down.. to call him a liability in pass coverage is an understatement.

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6 hours ago, Zombo said:

Btw, I'm not sure Zane Gonzalez is ALL on Dorsey.

Sashi drafted him, Jones coached him said "he's good to go", Hugh said OK, and Dorsey said OK.

It's a total organizational failure that this injured headcase kicker was sent out to win our first two games.

Z

 

I distinctly remember on Hard knocks someone yelling

Nice job ya fockin kicker!!  

Hahaha

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6 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

I mean, I think the discipline has been somewhat better, no?  At least in terms of penalties, right?  I don't have the numbers ON ME, but I don't remember penalties being a real killer against Oakland.  I don't have any way to quantify this, but I have this feeling at the end of almost every game that we're going to choke, and that the other team is going to do what it takes.  Basically, the same thing that Terrell Suggs said.  Funny thing is, I didn't feel that way against the Jets once we had the lead.  I wasn't scared of them going down the field AT ALL.  But with Derek Carr?  Yeah, that was over.  

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties-player.html?tm=8&yr=2018  feel free to look around site. nflpenalties.com(unsecure) is also a breakdown site that shows declined or offsetting & ST's..How many would  we call against coaching? Here's my count..Offense///false start=4/holding=5/ill.formation or motion=6/ill. contact(pick)=3...Defense/// holding=4/offsides 3..ST///block above waist=5/hold=1

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This is when I knew Hue had to go:  Oct 23rd 2016 -  we're 0-6, losing in the game,  with 1:10 left we punt from their 43 yard line.  We each have 2 TO's left.  And we had not really been able to stop their offense.  *** The Bengals came out and ran the ball up the gutt.  And they all got up slowly and meandered towards the huddle.  I was like, "Great!  They're gonna run out the clock.  But nope! !  Hue called TO !!!   So when they ran it up the gutt and got a 1st down, they decided, heck, why don't we try and score?  Maybe he'll call his last TO for us along the way.

Britton Colquitt punts 28 yards, fair catch by Alex Erickson 10 14 0.400 0.220
2 1:03 1 10 CIN 15 Giovani Bernard right guard for 5 yards (tackle by Christian Kirksey) 10 14 -0.220 0.080
2 0:58 1 10 CIN 15 Timeout #2 by Cleveland Browns 10 14 0.000 0.000
2 0:58 2 5 CIN 20 Giovani Bernard right guard for 6 yards (tackle by Xavier Cooper) 10 14 0.080 0.670
2 0:47 2 5 CIN 20 Timeout #2 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000
2 0:47 1 10 CIN 26 Andy Dalton pass complete short middle to Tyler Eifert for 9 yards (tackle by Tracy Howard) 10 14 0.670 1.350
2 0:26 2 1 CIN 35 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to A.J. Green for 16 yards (tackle by Briean Boddy-Calhoun) 10 14 1.350 2.320
2 0:20 1 10 CLE 49 Andy Dalton sacked by Emmanuel Ogbah for -6 yards 10 14 2.320 0.970
2 0:12 1 10 CLE 49 Timeout #3 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000
2 0:12 2 16 CIN 45 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to Giovani Bernard for 7 yards 10 14 0.970 1.220
2 0:07 3 9 CLE 48 Andy Dalton pass complete deep middle to A.J. Green for 48 yards, touchdown 10 20 1.220 7.000
2 0:07     CLE 48 Mike Nugent kicks extra point good

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11 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

My only problem with Hue is that we're 1-9-1 in games decided by 3 points or less.  Some of that HAS to be coaching, right?  I'm in the camp of "Keep Hue No Matter What", so I'm not saying to get rid of him, but Jesus.  You think you'd at least get LUCKY more than that, right?

Wrong.

I can easily make the argument that Hue didn't cost us a win in MOST of those games.  I mean, God forbid we have a good kicker.  God forbid we have a defense that stops people before their inevitable game-winning drive.  This goes back FAR beyond Hue Jackson.  I can think of a ton of games where we simply didn't make the play to win the game.  It's the same story, regardless of our coach.  You remember Brandon Weeden's first game?  He played ATROCIOUS, and it was week 1 against the Eagles, in Cleveland.  We were still somehow in position to win the game, and our linebacker dropped the easiest game-clinching interception you'll ever see.  Ever.  Next play?  I think it was 4th down...Vick throws an easy score to win.  

That's what we do.  And we need to stop it.  I just don't see how.  

As a different take on that imagine what it took to get within 3 points of any team with our garbage roster the last 2 years

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No team was worse against the spread than the Browns in 2016 and 2017. 

There seems to be this narrative that during the 1-31 stretch the Browns lost a ton of close games, but the above stat says that it isn't true. 

In those 32 games, how many times do we guess the Browns were favored? Maybe once or twice? So basically, the Browns were picked to lose almost every game, and because they were the worst against the spread, that means they were consistently worse than predicted. 

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9 hours ago, jcam222 said:

As a different take on that imagine what it took to get within 3 points of any team with our garbage roster the last 2 years

And I think this is actually a brilliant point and definitely worth mentioning. I really do. In fact, I've brought up a few times that Hue's players never quit and that's impressive considering just how terrible we were. We fought until the end of every miserable season under Hue Jackson. 

But the lack of close game finishes are what will ultimately be Hue's demise, whether it's fair or not. This is why the Oakland game hurt so very much. We had a chance to stack wins for the first time since forever. We had a chance for our defense to make two consecutive game-clinching stops in a row. We had a chance to prove WE WEREN'T the "same old Browns"....but we didn't. This is why this loss hurts more than just about any other. It was a chance to slay so many demons, yet the demons proved once again they are still in command. 

What this team needs is a "signature win". It's all fine and dandy to be a scrappy young team that's not a pushover anymore, but to really be taken seriously, the Browns need a signature victory. I'm not going to lie, this match-up against the Ravens could very well be our most difficult task all season, and we obviously have to play them again. When you really look at the numbers for each team, this figures to be an "auto loss" for the Browns, and I've basically said as much. But....BUT....

Sometimes in rivalry games you have to throw the numbers out the window. There are times when it doesn't matter who the better team is, or who is "supposed to win". Again, this why you play the game, right? As many have mentioned, just ask the Vikings when they played the Bills. 

That being said, the Ravens aren't going to take the Browns for granted. They know full well how tough we can be, regardless of our record. We've fought them tooth and nail, down to the wire even in our miserable last two years. A part of me says, "Isn't it about time for us to have a magical game? Isn't it about time we have a game where everything goes right? Where we make that last play? Where the ref doesn't blow the ball dead and we run it back for a TD? Where we actually hit the wide open Callaway for the TD? The game where we're praying for somebody to finish the game, and somebody actually DOES IT?"

Man, I really hope so. 

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14 hours ago, Orion said:

This is when I knew Hue had to go:  Oct 23rd 2016 -  we're 0-6, losing in the game,  with 1:10 left we punt from their 43 yard line.  We each have 2 TO's left.  And we had not really been able to stop their offense.  *** The Bengals came out and ran the ball up the gutt.  And they all got up slowly and meandered towards the huddle.  I was like, "Great!  They're gonna run out the clock.  But nope! !  Hue called TO !!!   So when they ran it up the gutt and got a 1st down, they decided, heck, why don't we try and score?  Maybe he'll call his last TO for us along the way.

Britton Colquitt punts 28 yards, fair catch by Alex Erickson 10 14 0.400 0.220
2 1:03 1 10 CIN 15 Giovani Bernard right guard for 5 yards (tackle by Christian Kirksey) 10 14 -0.220 0.080
2 0:58 1 10 CIN 15 Timeout #2 by Cleveland Browns 10 14 0.000 0.000
2 0:58 2 5 CIN 20 Giovani Bernard right guard for 6 yards (tackle by Xavier Cooper) 10 14 0.080 0.670
2 0:47 2 5 CIN 20 Timeout #2 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000
2 0:47 1 10 CIN 26 Andy Dalton pass complete short middle to Tyler Eifert for 9 yards (tackle by Tracy Howard) 10 14 0.670 1.350
2 0:26 2 1 CIN 35 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to A.J. Green for 16 yards (tackle by Briean Boddy-Calhoun) 10 14 1.350 2.320
2 0:20 1 10 CLE 49 Andy Dalton sacked by Emmanuel Ogbah for -6 yards 10 14 2.320 0.970
2 0:12 1 10 CLE 49 Timeout #3 by Cincinnati Bengals 10 14 0.000 0.000
2 0:12 2 16 CIN 45 Andy Dalton pass complete short right to Giovani Bernard for 7 yards 10 14 0.970 1.220
2 0:07 3 9 CLE 48 Andy Dalton pass complete deep middle to A.J. Green for 48 yards, touchdown 10 20 1.220 7.000
2 0:07     CLE 48 Mike Nugent kicks extra point good

So it was Hue's fault that we gave up a 48 yd TD pass with 7 seconds to go in the half?

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9 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

So it was Hue's fault that we gave up a 48 yd TD pass with 7 seconds to go in the half?

Yes, in fact it was because that play would never have even happened had he NOT called a TO. It was stupid clock management.

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5 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

So it was Hue's fault that we gave up a 48 yd TD pass with 7 seconds to go in the half?

That was the football Gods whacking Hue's pee-pee for letting it get to that point.

----------------------------

I REALLY should have gone over the happenings PRIOR to us punting to them with 1:10 remaining.

With 2:00 left in the half Col. Hogan scrambles for 7 yards to the Bengals 38 bringing up 4th and 3.  (remember, we're 0-6 and losing yet again)  -  Hue can't figure out what he wants to do...he's talking to the QB...talking into outer space....he decides to let the clock run out to take away as many seconds as possible from the Bengals.  (he HAD 2 TO's  -  he lost one earlier in a challenge).    

The above is the 'backdrop' that make's Hue's calling TO for the Bengals so mind boggling! 

(he took a delay of game penalty to milk the clock...punted...and then called  TO  after their 1st play)

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On 10/6/2018 at 8:06 AM, TexasAg1969 said:

Yes, in fact it was because that play would never have even happened had he NOT called a TO. It was stupid clock management.

Sorry, Ag... but that's just fukking ignorant.

Look at the full play-by-play up to that point. We were in the game. We called timeout to preserve time for our Offense who had come alive in the 2nd Qtr to close the score to 14-10. WE had CIN pinned deep in their own territtory. WE were looking to at least get a FG before the half. We had the momentum...

 

This place is getting so hindsight happy it's ridiculous...

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12 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Sorry, Ag... but that's just fukking ignorant.

Look at the full play-by-play up to that point. We were in the game. We called timeout to preserve time for our Offense who had come alive in the 2nd Qtr to close the score to 14-10. WE had CIN pinned deep in their own territtory. WE were looking to at least get a FG before the half. We had the momentum...

 

This place is getting so hindsight happy it's ridiculous...

Hey, that's my specialty. Don't knock it!🎃

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11 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

Hey, that's my specialty. Don't knock it!🎃

lol....

Duly noted...

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On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 2:34 PM, Zombo said:

I think we all just need a sacrificial lamb after those frustrating finishes in three of four games.

I want special teams coach Amos Jone's head on a stick.

Z

Like in that movie Wolf Creek?

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Fester speaks ...

 

 

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He's soooo awkward. 

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4 minutes ago, D Bone said:

He's soooo awkward. 

The best thing about these speaches is that he gives balls to the Haslams and Dorsey, let's the GM break the huddle today... 

That's the losingest coach in the NFL for you. 

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